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Ford F-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    goblue,

    I bought the '04 F150, which was a model change over year, and the employee pricing was not better than what I could get through negotiating. Plus , the employee pricing to the public excludes any model that is selling well.

    And the fact that you state there is an 'X' plan and an 'A' plan just proves my point at how deceptive it really is. The advertisement shows an assembly line worker pausing at their job and saying "You pay what we pay".

    It's an insult to either the buyer off the street or an insult to the employee one way or another. What does that say to the employee when everyone on the street gets to buy a car at the "employee price"? It tells me the employee pricing is an empty number.
  • goblue1279goblue1279 Member Posts: 6
    Spoken like someone who has no clue!!!

    Have you looked at the economy lately? Car sales are down! The Employee pricing is A-Plan to the Public!!!! Plus today Ford announced that if you own a 1998 or newer Ford Vehicle you would receive a $3000 Rebate on top of everything else which simply means up to $12,500 off MSRP.

    X-plan-Partners of Ford slightly below Invoice on most Fords.
    A-plan- Below dealer Cost including holdback!!!

    The point I am really trying to make is that you make car dealers out to be almost Criminal in selling new Trucks when the Reality is that a dealer is lucky to make $1,000 on the sale of a new Truck with this pricing.

    I am so sick of people coming into my dealer and basically telling me I am not allowed to make any money whats so ever! I don't go to to work every day to not make money. I go to work to make a living like everyone else does!!!! The worst part is if I walked into your work and said "hey I'll buy what your company sells but your not allowed to make a profit on me at all, as a matter of fact I want you to Lose money" I would get thrown out!!!!

    You know a dealer needs to avg. $1500 or so on each vehicle they sell to keep their doors open?

    Prices are not going up because Manufactor and dealers are marking them up its because we pay some guy at the Ford Plant $25/hour to mop the Floors. Its funny we think these companys are moving for cheaper labor, it our own fault we wanna organize to make $35/hr to make the cars and then complain because they cost too much!!!!! Ok I am done with my rant!
  • goblue1279goblue1279 Member Posts: 6
    Oh yeah look at the profits for Ford and tell me they are making money right now, and look at my sales floor where 2 months ago we sold 210 cars and last month we sold 80, laid off 2 sales managers and went from 22 sales people to 14.
  • grizfangrizfan Member Posts: 7
    Sorry if I come across as a jerk, but that's the way capitalism works. You guys made plenty of money when gas was cheap and everyone wanted a big truck or SUV with plenty of margin. And, while the money was rolling in, did you develop a contingency plan for when fuel costs went up and the economy went South? Or did you just keep your head buried in the sand, figuring the good times would keep rollin'?

    Right now, you are stuck with a whole bunch of product that no one wants. When supply outstrips demand, prices fall. Ask anyone who works in a commodity business about that. Its unfortunate, but that's the way things work. Its the customer's job to get the lowest price they can and the dealer's job to get the highest price. Right now, the market has swung in favor of the customer and the dealers/manufacturers have to take their lumps. But that is YOUR problem. If you want to make money, I hear 4-bangers and hybrids are getting solid margins right now.

    In the mean time, I will be one of those customers squeezing you as hard as I can on a new truck purchase. Sorry, but that's how the system works...
  • goblue1279goblue1279 Member Posts: 6
    Hybrids have a goods margin but If i were to sell you a brand new 2008 Ford Focus at Full MSRP $15,910 give you the $1500 in rebates(which is not from us. The dealer would make exactly $1,133.66 in profit. Now selling the car i only get paid on 676.66 which mean I make 202.98.

    I am not tring to be a jerk but the point I am tring to get across is that NO ONE is tring to get one over on you or any consumer. I don't have a problem with an educated consumer but please make sense when you speak. Know what your talking about before you make an ignorant comment about something you just think is right. Oh yeah let me show you the deal on a nice F-150 if you a own a 98 or newer Ford product

    2008 F150 4X2 SS S/C
    4.6L EFI V8 ENGINE
    ELECTRONIC 4-SPD AUTO O/D
    MSRP $28,880
    STX Discount Package $2000
    Employee Price-$23,888.90
    Retail Customer Cash-$2000
    Ford Credit Bonus Cash-$1000
    Owner Loyalty-$3000
    Your Price $17,888.90
    Tell me that its not a deal to save $10,991.10 Off MSRP
  • jordankjordank Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a new 2008 King Ranch 4x4 150" for a hair under $13000 off MSRP.
    That was Employee pricing + another $7000 in rebates. I have seen used trucks for more than I paid...
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    I'm not sure what exactly you're upset about? Employee pricing? the power of the internet to get competitive pricing? Or are you just upset at the Ford compensation plan for sales?

    I did see an ad in the SF Chronicle over the 4th July weekend where a Ford dealer writes "Below Employee Pricing"!!! Kinda shows you how silly the employee pricing can be.

    I know times are rough for car salesmen these days - especially if your lot is full of trucks. But the fact is you're selling something that is sold at several other stores within 30 miles (at least where I live). The old slogan that "we're number one in service" just isn't enough to make your dealership charge anymore than some other dealer down the road.

    Add the power of the internet and sites like Edmunds and you have to see where your pricing model is headed. MSRP is a joke - has been for many years. If Ford doesn't pay it's sale people anything for a sub invoice sale, I'd say it's time to find another profession.
  • cadencruecadencrue Member Posts: 2
    The US car companies seem to be brain dead in dealing with their current financial situation. The example by goblue seems like an OK deal, except that you have to own a Ford to get the $3k, and you can't combine these deals with financing.

    The real problem is that the car companies have a ton of inventory of gas-guzzlers with no demand, and their pride is getting in the way of selling the vehicles. I was at a Ford Dealer this weekend who still had several new 2007(!) Lincoln Mark LT pickups, and they were offering to sell one to me at sticker (about $39K vs MSRP of $41K). This make no sense when the truck has been on the lot for a year and a half. Another dealer is offering a $25 Starbucks card for test driving their trucks or SUVs. Are you kdding???? They have a serious problem - these cars are a sunk cost to the dealer and need to move. Meanwhile, the Big 3 are announcing layoffs and closing plants.

    A company like GM used to have a market cap that would equal the GNP of the 6th largest country in the world. Now it's at the same level as Bath and Body Works (kidding, but not too far away). Pride and poor business practices are a bad combination.
  • cadencruecadencrue Member Posts: 2
    Is anyone running into many "new" 2007 models of these trucks, and have you found ways to get great deals on them? Since Ford has pushed back 2009 deliveries until late fall/early winter to clear the huge inventory of 2008s, I would think they would accept almost any offer for 2007s
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    if you try to deal with Ford the old fashion way of face to face negotiations then be prepared to waste hours and days of your time with salesmen that have nothing better to do than to suck down cigarettes. (Yes I've worked in the business before)

    Get on the internet and locate existing inventory out there and send e-mail out to all the dealers within a couple hundred miles of your home - request their best offer and wait to hear from the dealers who want to unload inventory. Make sure they know you're ready to buy, know what you want, and stick to your guns. End of the month works best. End of the quarter is even better. It takes work, but is worth avoiding the agrivation of having some joker offer you a couple grand under MSRP.

    You should be shooting for something under invoice imo. Wish I could tell you a more accurate price to shoot for, but no one is posting much here these days.
    Use the price leaders as a guide. One at this price might be a loss leader. "All in stock" means there's wiggle room.
  • ron48164ron48164 Member Posts: 8
    Where is this deal at?

    2008 F150 4X2 SS S/C
    4.6L EFI V8 ENGINE
    ELECTRONIC 4-SPD AUTO O/D
    MSRP $28,880
    STX Discount Package $2000
    Employee Price-$23,888.90
    Retail Customer Cash-$2000
    Ford Credit Bonus Cash-$1000
    Owner Loyalty-$3000
    Your Price $17,888.90

    This is better than the lease buy-out on my 2006 XLT. If I can find this deal in Denver, I'll buy.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    that looks like a great deal, but how are you going to combine "retail customer cash" with employee pricing?
  • carsearch2008carsearch2008 Member Posts: 10
    Everything else I've seen written on the topic of what your trade in or a new or used car is worth is just about worthless. What is a car worth? Here are the facts on the resources and car indexes and car guides:
    1. Kelly Blue Book: Available in paperback and Online and it's free but completely inaccurate and over priced - Dealers love to show you this value when you buy but not on trade in so much.
    2. Edmunds: Easy to use and online access but not very accurate; more for informational purposes.
    3. National Auto Research publishes the Black Book (NOT BLUE book) - Extremely accurate and this is what auto dealers use - Online access but it is expensive and primarily used by auto dealers.
    4. Manheim Auto Auction publishes MMR (Manheim Market Report) - Online only and you must be a "state registered auto dealer"; VERY ACCURATE. Mention, "MMR price" and watch the dealers expression change and the best price emerge (or the dealer get mad).
    Notes: I am pretty sure MMR and black book publish new car values also ( in fact im almost positive). Also, most dealers buy the cars at an auction (like Manheim auto auction) (the general public cannot attend the auctions) and mark them up to pay the sales reps commissions. Go direct when possible.
  • carsearch2008carsearch2008 Member Posts: 10
    Goblue,
    the dealer could not produce the volume of advertising, number of admin staff, large lot, etc on the margins you just gave. Also, what about Dealer Hold Back and "Administrative Fees". Hold back is a considerable profit to the dealer. Here is the profit: 1. Ford/manufacturer make the car or truck and SELL it immediately to a distributor. 2. Distributor takes his cut (eg ford of North America) and sells to a dealer. 3. Dealer marks up the price (10-20% of total price) and sells to the buyer. 3. Salesperson takes a cut (varies depending upon dealer). 4. Buyer gets cut. Personally I'd like to see the auto industry "Delled" ( by that I mean go direct - like Dell computer) and just buy a 2008 Ford F150 Crew Cab for $16,000 (the manufacturer would make more profit and the buyer would get a great deal) and let manufacturer franchise the repair shops, parts and options. Ford needs to do something creative and We All Know that their current supply chain is not competitive.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    I think KBB uses MSRP as the basis for depreciating a used vehicle. Of course most people know that MSRP, especially with domestics is a joke. It's gotten to be like jewlery stores putting up 'Sale' signs - no one pays "retail" for furniture, jewlery, hotel rooms or cars these days unless it's something in tight supply.

    I agree with your assessment that car dealers should streamline the buying process and cut out some of the selling layers that really add little value. At least let people have to option to avoid the sales pitch.
  • kgabekgabe Member Posts: 25
    A new 08' King Ranch: Sticker $43,895. Asking $31, 700. Any input?
  • carsearch2008carsearch2008 Member Posts: 10
    Austin Texas - Maxwell Ford - a 2008 F150, 4x4 Super Crew (4 full size doors) NEW. Quoted at list of $38K and a sale price of $26,000 minus a few additional incentives that total, my guess, an additional $2000 off for a total purchase price of (guessing) $24,000. However this is not the out the door price.
  • kgabekgabe Member Posts: 25
    WOW, that's one helluva price if one can actually buy it for that.
  • ron48164ron48164 Member Posts: 8
    I got this deal on a STX 4x4, in Denver on 8/1:

    2008 F150 4X4 SS S/C
    4.6L EFI V8 ENGINE
    ELECTRONIC 4-SPD AUTO O/D
    REAR DEFROSTER & SHIFT ON THE FLY
    MSRP $31,480
    STX Discount Package $2,000
    Employee Price-$26,125
    Retail Customer Cash-$2,000
    Ford Credit Bonus Cash-$1,000
    Owner Loyalty-$3000
    Your Price $20,125

    I did this with a real Z-plan. The employee pricing for everyone would have worked, but I used a z-plan to save $500 (document fee all dealers are charging here).

    The buyout on my 2006 F150 lease was 22,400. I would have kept it if Ford was willing to accept a reasonable price in this market, but they would rather take a loss.
  • selooseloo Member Posts: 606
    Carsearch2008,

    Do you have access to MMR?

    I am looking for the current used car price for the Taurus X (SEL & EB trims) 10-15K miles.

    Thanks
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    The $3000 owner loyalty is a big chunk of money. I do not own a Ford vehicle and I feel it is unfair to pay an extra $3000 just because I am not a Ford vehicle owner. I will not pay $3000 more than others and I will look elsewhere.
    I do not understand how Ford is going to attract new owners with such unfair policy. Make loyalty $500 or less like Hyundai but to make it $3000 is for sure a stupid management policy.
  • jvosjvos Member Posts: 91
    Allsherri -

    Read the news. Ford's problem isn't gaining new customers, it is keeping its old ones. Scream all you want, but its is a BIG incentive to stay Ford!
  • clint183clint183 Member Posts: 1
    The $3000 rebate got my intention. I was going to buy my first new Ford vehicle until I was told I didn't qualify for the rebate. I understand the use of the rebate to induce previous Ford owners to stay with Ford.

    But, if you don't already own a Ford, I think the loyalty rebate will have the effect of potential customers looking elsewhere. It sure had that effect on me.

    I agree with Allsherri, there is no way I would buy a Ford knowing that I was excluded from a $3000 rebate. It doesn't make sense to me.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    Ford is thinking backward in their loyalty promotion. Most companies try to get new customers by offering special discounts, free installation, free introductory rates, etc to increase their customers base. Ford needs new customers to get rid of unsold cars and trucks especially after their big loss. This promotion will do nothing to keep a previous Ford owner who is angry and unsatisfied. To keep sales high Ford must allure new customers not rebel them by nonesense promotions. $3000 is about 10% to 15% out of the door price which is very significant especially when the economy is in free fall and the money in short supply.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    I visited the local Ford dealership recently and the internet sales manager told me that the promotion may change at any time. I hope Ford will listen to their dealers because they are suffering.
  • guitarman520guitarman520 Member Posts: 2
    I'm in northeast PA and I'm looking at a 2008 F-150 Lariat with a MSRP of $44710.00. I'm getting a price of $33280.00 plus tax and tags. Is this fair? I'm was hoping to get closer to $30K out the door. Is it possible? Thanks in advance!
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter with a large newswire would like to speak with consumers who purchased a truck or SUV in the past couple of months and received a good deal as demand was low because of gas prices. If you just purchased a truck or SUV recently, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Monday, August 25th.
  • carsearch2008carsearch2008 Member Posts: 10
    Austin Texas Area:
    The following prices were advertised in the Austin American Stateman (newspaper) on Sat. 8-23-08. If you are interested remember buy "direct" from the "FLEET manager" and skip the sales rep commission and also email me and we can buy together and maybe get an additional discount. I'm buying cash unless the interest rate is good.

    1. Mac Haik Ford in Georgetown texas has: A). NEW 2008 Ford F-15- XLT Super Crew TX/OK 4x4 w/chrome Package for: $25,468 or $24,468 with Ford Motor Credit (financing) and the same truck is only $21,468 if you have a ford/factory owner loyalty bonus
    B.) same truck as above WITHOUT 4x4 is $20,999 or $19,999 if financed and if you own a ford $16,999.
    2. Maxwell ford Supercenter (in South Austin off the motor mile)
    A. NEW 2008 Ford F-150 Super Crew NON-4x4 for $19,988 or $15,988 with Ford MCC (financing) AND Loyalty/(if you own a ford).
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    I'm not in the market to buy a Ford product anytime soon, but I would guess you can get the equivolent of the $3,000 "loyalty" cash regardless if you are a Ford owner.

    It's really just a ploy to make you feel special. Every dealer has a bottom line price and there are a dozen ways to get there. The "loyalty" cash isn't much different than the bogus "employee pricing". I'm confident you can get the same price just being armed with good information of what these trucks/cars really go for to the well informed.
  • jvosjvos Member Posts: 91
    Aalsherri -

    the 'loyalty cash' is a Ford incentive, not a dealer one. As I've been told, the dealer needs to provide the customer's Ford VIN to get the cash.
  • shackmshackm Member Posts: 9
    Could have rode home in a brand new F-150 STX Extended Cab today for 13K had I been the owner of a Ford already. Too bad for me...guess I'll keep driving my old Nissan.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    Yes it is a Ford incentive. It is not something a dealer can play with.
  • shackmshackm Member Posts: 9
    The salesman from the Ford Dealership called me today to let me know of some new incentives from Ford...I'm interested in seeing what they are.

    Looks like all of the dealerships were moving vehicles pretty good this last weekend. I don't think we're in a recession!
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    "Looks like all of the dealerships were moving vehicles pretty good this last weekend. I don't think we're in a recession! "

    "we" may not be in a recession, but the big three clearly are. Have you seen their numbers of late. BTW a recession would be defined by two consecutive quarters of negative growth. It's worse than that for Detroit.
  • rcoketguyrcoketguy Member Posts: 13
    Anyone here if Ford is going to bring this back on the F150, possible over the entire line-up of F150s not just the STX Sport Supercabs like before?

    If they'd come up with about $5,000 more between retail rebate, loyalty, & Ford Credit, I might think about trading my '04 Ranger Edge on a STX Sport Reg. Cab.
  • jvosjvos Member Posts: 91
    I'm getting ready to order a 2009 F-150 SuperCrew Platinum. I was wondering if anyone had any insight on what incentives may be applied to the 2009s. I'm really hoping owner loyalty applies.

    BTW, the dealer I'm working with told me he sold "a ton" of 08s in August. In fact, he only had a couple one the lot and no supercrews.
  • rcoketguyrcoketguy Member Posts: 13
    According to the online dealer inventories here in Central Florida there still are quite a few F150's, mainly looking at STX's (w/ Sports Pkg.), both reg and supercabs. I really don't want a supercab or else I would have jumped on the August incentive of $10,500 discount (-2000 package, -3500 retail rebate, -3000 loyalty, -2000 FMCC).

    So right now you still have, on a reg cab STX Sport, $6500 off (-2000 package, -3500 retail rebate, 1000 FMCC). If Ford would bring back loyalty, maybe add some to retail and FMCC or even additional X-Plan money I might trade my '04 Ranger Edge.
  • kgabekgabe Member Posts: 25
    And you believe him? I would NOT. Look at the latest August inventory numbers. They, Ford, did move some more trucks than usual but at an incredible COST to them.
  • kgabekgabe Member Posts: 25
    YES. About 75% of sticker. Can't beat that price sir.
  • kgabekgabe Member Posts: 25
    Extended cab: $4K. PLUS another $2K if the truck has been sitting on dealers lot for a certain period (don't know how many months) PLUS another $1K if you finance SOME of it. It used to follow that one could take the extra $1K and pay off the loan fully after 3 months.
  • kgabekgabe Member Posts: 25
    Extended cab, FX4, 4X4, FLARESIDE. Sticker $39,399. Dealer would NOT tell me where this truck was located although he did say it was within 200 miles. I have the vin number. Can I locate this truck with the vin number? Does anyone know how I can do this? As for the sales price I thought at leat $6K in cash rebates PLUS another $3000 off dealers "take." Any input?
  • jvosjvos Member Posts: 91
    Yes I believe him, because, as I said, there were hardly any on the lot.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    I predict the gasoline price will go up to $7/gallon in the near future, The demand for new trucks will go to the bottom. Prepare to buy dirt cheap almost new used trucks.
  • richardmayorichardmayo Member Posts: 26
    Try googleing the entire VIN. Sometimes dealers will list the VIN on their inventory website, and google will find it for you.

    You can also search deal inventory on fordvehicles.com. If you can narrow it down to a few dealers in your area, you can view their inventory. Once you find a truck that seems to be a match, you can view the window sticker online, which will show the VIN.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    Ford is offering $7000 rebate on most trucks. I do not know whether to buy one or wait for the 2009 model. I am thinking about the 2009 because it is more efficient but not that much. May be a 2010 diesel is the wild card. One year waiting is too long.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    Today I received from the internet department of a local dealer an offer for a new 2008 XLT CRW. The price they want is about $27500 plus tax. It is about $10,000 below the sticker price :
    Standard Equipment INCLUDED AT NO EXTRA CHARGE
    EXTERIOR
    . AUTOLAMP-AUTO ON/OFF HDLMP
    . FRONT TOW HOOKS
    . LOCKING REMOVABLE TAILGATE
    W/ LIFT ASSIST
    . REAR PRIVACY GLASS
    . 17" CHROME CLAD STEEL WHLS
    . P255/70R17 OWL A/T TIRES
    . SPARE TIRE & WHEEL LOCK
    INTERIOR
    . AIR CONDITIONING
    . AM/FM STEREO W/ SINGLE CD
    . COLOR COORD CARPET & MATS
    . COVRD VISOR VANITY MIRRORS
    . CRUISE CONTROL/TILT WHEEL
    . DOME LAMP/DUAL MAP LIGHTS
    . OUTSIDE TEMP/COMPASS DSPLY
    . TACHOMETER
    FUNCTIONAL
    . 2-SPD TRANSFER CASE
    . 4 PIN TRAILER WIRING
    . 30 GALLON FUEL TANK
    . ALTERNATOR 110 AMP
    . AUXILIARY POWER POINT
    . CARGO BOX TIE DOWN HOOKS
    . ELECT SHIFT-ON-FLY 4X4 SYS
    . FAIL-SAFE COOLING SYSTEM
    . POWER RACK PINION STEERING
    . POWER WNDOWS/LOCKS/MIRRORS
    . STABILIZER BAR, FRONT
    SAFETY/SECURITY
    . 4-WHEEL DISC BRAKES W/ABS
    . AIR BAGS, DRIV/FRONT PASS
    . REMOTE KEYLESS ENTRY
    . SECURILOCK

    Price Information MSRP
    STANDARD VEHICLE PRICE $33,020


    Optional Equipment
    2008 MODEL YEAR
    BLACK CLEARCOAT
    SILVER CLEARCOAT MET ACCENT
    MED/DARK FLINT PREM CLOTH
    PREFERRED EQUIPMENT PKG.507A
    .XLT SERIES
    5.4L FFV V8 ENGINE 895
    ELECTRONIC 4-SPD AUTO O/D
    3.55 RATIO LIMITED SLIP AXLE 300
    7200# GVWR PACKAGE
    JOB #2 ORDER
    PACKAGE DISCOUNT
    FRONT LICENSE PLATE BRACKET
    POWER ADJUSTABLE PEDALS 120
    SLIDING REAR WINDOW 125
    TRAILER TOW PACKAGE 350
    REVERSE CAMERA 450
    .ELEC RR VIEW MIRROR W/DISPLAY
    XLT CHROME PACKAGE 1,420
    .P275/65RX18 OWL ALL-TERRAIN
    .CHROME STEP BAR
    .18" CHROME CLAD WHEELS
    PWR DRIVER SEAT 285
    SAT RADIO W/6 MOS SERVICE 195
    LOWER TWO-TONE PAINT 250
    __________
    TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS 37,410
    DESTINATION & DELIVERY 925
    __________
    TOTAL BEFORE DISCOUNTS 38,335

    PACKAGE DISCOUNT -1,000
    TOTAL SAVINGS -1,000

    TOTAL MSRP $37,335
  • rcoketguyrcoketguy Member Posts: 13
    With the new incentives, just got an STX Reg. Cab, MSRP $26,115, -2,000 Pkg Discount, -1,663 X-Plan, -6,000 Rebate, -500 FMCC Rebate = $15,952.

    Ford sweetened the rebates by $2,000.

    Traded my '04 Ranger Edge!
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    Is it a 4X4? With the sports package or not? It makes a big difference in the price.
  • 3seven33seven3 Member Posts: 1
    :confuse:

    Could anyone tell me if there is any loyalty money available now? Looking to purchase a new F150 Super Crew and already have a 05 explorer.

    Thanks

    Joseph
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    May be in the future. The $7000 rebate on the 2008 model is for every buyer. I do not expect Ford will give insentives on the 2009 model for at least 2-4 months. However, I expect that every auto manufacturer will give high insentives later this year because of the high decline in economy and buying power. This is a very serious issue for all auto manufacturer domestic as well as foreign. The old good days are finished for them for the next 2-3 years. Ford needs cash and as long as the gas price is high there will be low demand for trucks.
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