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Diesel Vs Gasoline II
This is a continuation of Topic 182....
Diesel vs Gasoline.
Please continue this discussion here.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
Diesel vs Gasoline.
Please continue this discussion here.
Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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Comments
I agree that towing with the Cummins / Auto / 4.10 would raise the rpm's even more than with the 3.54 ratio. With the O/D off, it would be next to impossible to tow at highway speeds. In fact, I consider towing with the 3.54 diff and O/D off next to impossible too! That's why I would go with the 4.10 ratio, because I ALWAYS tow with the O/D "on" and this would make the cummins run higher in the power curve (2075rpms @ 65mph, instead of 1800rpms with the 3.54 ratio).
But, another thing to consider, with Dodge now supplying the trucks with the 265 tires (instead of 245's), this would actually reduce the rpm's a little because of the tires being "taller".
Brett
As for oil filters: I have talked to Cummins reps and they think the MOPAR filters aren't even good enough for the job. Something about the filter media coming apart and plugging the piston oiling holes. Until I can cut open some other brands and compare them to the MOPAR, I will use the MOPAR filter.
The oil has to meet the requirements in the owner's manual. The 2 choises are Cheveron, and Shell. Shell seems to be the winner, if prices are comparable.
Wildman
http://www.blueovalnews.com/engine_page.htm
Powerstrokes are 15 quarts with a 2 quart filter.
- Tim
thats an awesome engine, the only engine that i will compliment ford on, but i guess thats just another opinion
You and I agree! Powerstroke is one tough engine. However, its not made by Ford!
Nope. That is the sign of a diesel:noisy.
Z71brent,
AT least Ford helped unlike Dodge with Cummins. Oh yeah, then there was the diesel that GM built........LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, then there was the diesel that GM
built........LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Oh, I agree that the GM diesel has never been good, but it WAS their own diesel. The GM diesel is the only weak link in GM's lineup. However, there are several in the Ford lineup...the 4.6l, the 5.4l, and the 6.8l.
LOL!!!!!
I wish I had a camera on this day.
I was coming home from work the other day, traveling a road that goes from two lanes to a left turn lane, a straight lane, and a right turn lane at a major intersection. The middle or straight lane had traffic backed up for a quarter mile or better. I finally went around and got in the left turn lane, deciding to go ahead and take the longer route as it would still be faster than sitting behind the traffic that didn't seem to be moving.
As I approached the intersection, I saw something sooooo funny. I wish I could have taken a picture. A BRAND NEW 99 F150 Ext Cab 4X4 LARIAT W/ORP was STALLED and could not get across the intersection. This truck was not even licensed yet it was so new.
I could not resist the temptation to have a little fun. Pulling up next to this truck with my 99 Silverado Ext Cab Z71 4X4, I rolled down my passenger side window and prompted the severely embarrassed Ford owner to do the same with his drivers side window.
I could tell this guy was good natured and I politely asked him what was wrong.
TRANSMISSION WOULD NOT HOOK UP IN ANY GEAR! The poor guy said he hadn't had the truck in from special order more than a week.
I was nice, pulled ahead of him when traffic crossing had changed and hooked him up with my tow strap and pulled him across the intersection and into a grocery store parking lot where he could leave the poor thing until an ambulance could arrive.
At this time, I took the liberty of talking to this long time Ford owner of the MANY problems I endured with the 98 F150 that I had been so fooled into buying. I told this guy the deal I got on my Silverado and how 100% happy I have been with my truck. By the end of our conversation, this guy wanted to drive my truck. We went for about a 5 mile drive. I even let him open it up on the highway. The sad truck he left sitting in the parking lot had the 5.4l with 3:73 gear.
This guy was absolutely amazed at how much more power the Silverado 5.3l delivered.
At parting, this guy's exact words were this: "You really didn't need to tell me any negatives about the Ford you had. After driving your truck, I know exactly what I am going to do."
True story. Believe it or not....its up to you.
Several inches of fresh snow. It looks like it might stick. Roads were nasty this morning. The truck was in 4wd for the morning commute. Had lots of fun playing on the side roads. It's a great time of the year to own a 4wd.....as long as you remember that it won't stop you from sliding through an intersection or into the ditch at hwy speeds. I suspect that is not a problem for zbad. From what I've heard, it sounds like his Silverado would be able to float above the road with the power of that 6.0L and then brake on a dime, regardless of the amount of snow and ice.....
What was this? Never told this story before when it would have made sense when we had a pretty heated debate. Remember? Ahhhh, this story sounds just like that it is--a story.
Once upon a time, there lived an angry man named ZBAD, this man hated Ford so much that........
Just like Ripley's......Believe it.....or not.
<<A HREF="http://www.espar.com/htm/applies/pickup.htm">http://www.espar.com/htm/applies/pickup.htm>
After you get your monster roll’n, here’s a couple more things you can do to speed warm-up time:
1. Install a hood bra that allows adjustable restriction of airflow to the radiator.
2. Replace your diesel’s stock viscous-coupled fan clutch with a Horton electromagnetic. This product allows for a fully on/off engagment of the fan. The fan will fully engage when it’s hot ((over 200F) stock clutch only partially engages), and completely turn off when it’s cold.
Alan Ashley-Pitt at the Earth Roamer Expedition gives a few comments about his experience with the Horton installed on the Earth Roamer Dodge diesel.
-GvMeLbrty
Also require 4WD. used in snow country (ID).
What is the most efficient pick-up that meet these requirements.
Options come later.
On the other hand, you can't go wrong with the Powerstroke, if you're a Ford guy. Don't bother with GM diesels (at least until they bring out the Duramax).
Perhaps you could give us the address of your store where we can buy all of these neat little items that you suggest.
Rich
The Espar heater can probably be had direct from them. They list an 800 number and e-mail address for sales inquiries on their web site.
The Horton clutch web site includes an extensive list of distributors.
As for the adjustable bra, it depends on what truck you're putting it on - I haven't tracked one down yet for a Dodge. Let me know if you find a supplier.
-GvMeLbrty
you are right the PS would pull the chevy diesel all over the road, but at least the chevy wouldnt have to worry about the transmission going out at 30,000 or any other probs that they PS are having
friend of mine has a PS and i think that he has put 3 transmissions in it, hes looking at a dodge right now
this is true that diesels are bad [non-permissible content removed], but im glad i have my GAS where as i can out accelerate any diesel, and at least have fun with it where a diesel you cant really drive it just to drive it
but if i had a big load, i would want your truck
ive looked at the new ford 6.0, and those times for the quarter mile and 0-60mph, sound unrealistic, im sure they are fairly close, i dont see a diesel going to 60 mph that fast, what did it say,like 9.6sec
First, a diesel requires substantially higher inertia to maintain its idle speed. The crank shaft and flywheel are much heavier than a gasoline engine. RPM changes, by providing more fuel, are more difficult to achieve. Acceleration is also, much less efficient than a gasoline engine. (That's why a diesel gets much better relative mileage when using cruise control than a similar gasoline engine.)
Second, the longer stroke of a diesel makes it a poor choice for stop light racing but a great choice for pulling. The torque comes from the stroke length. I don't quite understand the engineering or the physics behind the long stroke forcing low RPM operation. (The Jaguar 3.6L six was an exception.)
The point is that a diesel doesn't like to change its operating RPM readily. Therefore it ain't going to accelerate very well.
Rich
I still haven't found an adjustable bra for use in cold weather driving to restrict airflow to the radiator, but Lund Industries makes custom-fit inserts for various truck grills that accomplishes the same thing.
See it here: <<A HREF="http://www.lundlook.com/products/stylecovers/coldfront.html">http://www.lundlook.com/products/stylecovers/coldfront.html>
-GvMeLbrty
That concludes our lecture of "Diesel 101" for the day...
Stroke length has little to do with limits on acceleration. It is all flywheel inertia related.
Take it easy.
Just like spark advance, if you inject the fuel earlier before TDC, ignition will commence earlier.
The really clanky noise the diesel makes when it is cold is a slight delay in the iniation of burn upon injection. The fuel needs to atomize before it autoignites, and the relatively cold top end delays that atomization slightly, and you get a louder clank upon autoignition.
I am struggling with the concept that diesels inherently are slower to accelerate than gas motors other than the higher rotational inertia of the motor....
If the rate at which the engine free revs when you step on the gas in neutral is way faster than the rate required for a 1st gear start, then I wouldn't think that it was much of a limiting factor for every day stoplight to stoplight racing. I am less certain on this whole last topic. ;o)
(1) If the injectors are $800+ apiece (and I'm assunming there are eight on a PS), that's upwards of $6,400 for a full replacement, right? I am getting the impression that replacing injectors at 200k is not that unreasonable. I've got nearly 200k on my Jeep Cherokee and recently had to replace 3 or 6 injectors -- but it only cost me $400. For $6400, I could buy a brand new engine. Are diesels really more economical in the long run?
(2) What's the likelihood of the turbo going out on the PS -- and what might that likely cost to replace/repair? (This diesel is sounding more like a Pandora's box to me)
(3) I am also getting the impression that the Cummins 24V is by far the favorite among those in this forum. Is the engine really superior to the PS or do people prefer it because of the Cummins name (and perhaps because of its simplicity)?
(4) If the F250 SD came with the Cummins, I'd buy it tomorrow. In an objective side-by-side comparison, how would the PS stack up against the Cummins (and I'm NOT talking strickly torque & hp)
(5) Should I wait until Ford comes out with a better diesel?
I think I am getting cold feet. On the one hand, I'm willing to fork over an add'l $4k if it is expected to yield me better service AND at least make sense economically in the long run. Those repairs scare me to death.
-scott
You will not regret getting the Diesel. (emphasis on the period)
I'm glad you are on the right track saying that you want the torque, and that you are not purely trying to justify the diesel by the economy factors. If you want the best, get it.
I have yet to hear anyone need to replace injectors. I'd like to hear from someone with ACTUAL experience in this.
Powerstroke is a VERY good motor. My preference is Cummins (not even completely sure why, but mostly the strait-6 configuration, simplicity, and nature of Cummins. The new Cummins ETH, especially if Dodge gets to share the Allison Automatic with GM (if rumors are true), would by my choice.
I've had 3 Ford diesels. Never had an injector problem. The two before the current '99 had a quarter million on them. There were two problems. The glow plugs and the glow plug controller. (a.k.a. Relay) In the '92 I replaced 5 glow plugs myself, in 20 minutes for about $65. I even had a white dress shirt on at the time and my wife didn't have any reason to yell at me. The dealer did the controller (Intermittent failure) for less than $300. It took a few days because they couldn't get it to fail unless it was cold.
In the short run, diesels are much more expensive than gasoline. Over a moderate span, a diesel is slightly more expensive than a gasoline engine. The diesel becomes less expensive somewhere above 100K miles. There are no tune ups with a diesel and I've never heard of anyone replacing an injector. (Guys, help me out here! Has anyone ever replaced an injector? What year truck? How many miles? When and how much?)
With a diesel, you have to be anal about maintenance. The big things are oil changes, fuel filter changes and draining the fuel/water separator.
With a diesel, you will hear from all kinds of so called experts (a.k.a. Water cooler idiots.) that will tell you to put everything from peanut oil to automatic transmission fluid into your fuel. In a word, DON'T! Diesels are designed to burn diesel fuel and diesel fuel specific additives. The additives dispurse water and increase the lubricity of the fuel in the injectors. After about 10K miles I recommend the fuel additive. These additives are usually available at truck stops. The brand that I use requires about an ounce per 10 gallons of fuel. The cost is towards $20 per gallon which is good for about at least 1300 gallons of fuel.
The big deal with the torque of a diesel is the driving experience. Once you start driving a diesel as a daily driver you won't go back to gasoline. It usually takes about 15K miles before you adapt to the characteristics of the diesel. After that, it seems that all roads are down hill. (Diesels are a bit more free wheeling than gasoline.)
As for mileage; in Los Angeles stop and stop again freeway traffic I get from the mid 16s to low 17s. Last weekend from Blythe/Ehrenberg to Phoenix/Scottsdale and back (Winston Cup Race) I got in the high 17s. HOWEVER I was doing 75 to 85 on the road and crawling in the race traffic. I have heard people say 15-16 with the V-10 in the Super Duty. I'm skeptical.
If you decide on the diesel, the way it will go is: First 2000 miles, "What a fantastic new truck." The next 10000 miles, "Why did I ever do such a dumb thing in buying this diesel?" From 12000 to 15000 miles, "This thing ain't so bad." And after 15000 miles, "I'll never buy another gasoline powered vehicle again! Ever! Honest!"
Let us know what you decide and how you make out with the vehicle over the next 50,000 miles.
Rich