VW brand experience - good or bad?

lewshel · January 2004

We have been considering buying a new car sooner rather than later. On Saturday we tested Audi A4 1.8 and 3.0 tiptronics. My wife likes the Audi more than the Passat V6 GLX 4 motion but I think the VW is a much better value. On line we have been offered an 03 Passat W-8 for around 33K. I wonder about mileage.
I am nervous about the amount of coil failure possible in such a complex 8 cylinder engine (I have a TDI).
Anyone with any experience with a W8 or is there anyone who has gone though the same comparison tests? Thanks.

corvette · January 2004

The W8 is really crammed in there under the hood of the Passat. Of course, the engine is warranted for 60,000 miles, so that should provide some comfort. That said, your chances of facing an expensive repair bill is about the same with any of the VW/Audi products.

andys120 · January 2004

I'd say all bets are off after 60K with that sucker. I read they have to pull the motor to change plugs! (gasp!).

I also gather that the W8 isn't particularly fast
which kind of nullifies the point of 8 cyls.

Have a look at the A4 3.0, a very sweet car, possibly less costly than the W8 Passat.

ebart1 · February 2004

for 12 years and 236,000km----with the best seats and multiple adjustments, best steering and tracking, best brakes, best body, best trunk, and best ride (considering the relatively short wheelbase)---of all the 10 vehicles owned. Even the old 3-speed automatic was totally 'bullet-proof' as was the cooling-system! Weakness involved the rear-shocks, electrics, steering-rack (replaced under warranty), transmission-mounts, windshield-wipers, and door-locks that trapped water (and froze-up in winter). And YES---the 1.8 gas engine always used oil between changes!
I loved that car---drove it across Canada and back with a spouse and 2 teen-age daughters---in fact both kids preferred driving it over the newer Civic.
It left me 'stranded' twice in the 12th year---but luckily---in town---due to some difficult-to-diagnose distributor ailment---!
It was only my second VW after owning a '79 Rabbit---for 10 years and 139,000km---a fun car all 'round---but nothing compared to the Jetta.
It saddens me to read and learn of the myriad complaints about the brand's many and varied quality issues---and I truly feel for those owners that have been deceived in the ownership experience. It is ultimately left to Volkswagen to change its haughty German attitude---and match that so-called German Engineering with quality of parts, assembly, and service.
When will we see it again?

Ernie

grbeck · February 2004

According to the Wall Street Journal, the new Golf is not meeting its sales targets in Europe. That can't be good news for VW.

In addition to its quality woes, VW's marketing plans are muddled. VW should stop making products that compete with Audi and concentrate on the "mass market." Let Audi cater to the near-luxury and luxury market.

6thbeatle · February 2004

My best friend and my brother-in-law both own VW jettas, and after all the niggling little quality control problems came big honkin' electrical problems, alternator, fan, fuel relay etc. etc., while still under their generous 2YEAR WARRANTY. Wow. 2 whole years! VW must have a lot of faith in their product.

To be fair, VW has recently extended part of their warranty to 4 years, more in line with the competition. the main problem after the problems were diagnosed was that both my friend and my brother-in-law had to deal with very difficult and downright surly service staff.

After seeing what they both went through with the same late-model, supposedly improved Jetta, I think I'll be looking elsewhere. Too bad, cuz other than falling apart and breaking down, VW cars are quite attractively designed.

thor8 · February 2004

Both VW and Mercedes recognized that quality has eroded in both brands, last year VW top CEO announced the creation of a panel to study and make recommendations to bring the quality of VW products to first class.

Last month the second top executive of Mercedes made the announcement that they are aware of quality surveys showing the brand slipping, he said the company decided to make all necessary efforts, nothing would be spared to bring the quality to past levels and beyond, the goal is to make Mercedes the top quality brand, they would like to accomplish that by 2006 or 2007. He further added you have no idea how seriously and how hard we are working towards this goal.

merc1 · February 2004

I can't wait to see what happens with MB's plans. How they'll do this lots of brand new products during that timeframe (new S, R-Class, ML, CLS) is really going to be interesting. If they do rise in quality, the survey clutchers will then say the surveys are wrong.

M

boaz47 · February 2004

between MB and VW is how they treat the customer. VW parts and service has the attitude they are doing you a favor letting you simply stand in their building. MB treats you like you are a customer. That has been the limited experience I have had with MB and the many times I have been in VW parts rooms. Both might take some lessons in parts and service from Lexus and Saturn. But the worst part is that VW has a pretty good car if it just didn't break for no reason. Even with the little problems they would seem worth it if the stocked parts to fix what you needed fixing. At times you feel like you know where all the old Renault parts men went after the French were chased from these shores.

corvette · February 2004

Mercedes used to rank at the top of the quality surveys, and now they are near the bottom. I will believe that they are at the top of their class when they achieve it--not when they say they will do it. The proof is in the pudding. Right now, they're just talking trash without backing it up! I'm not sure that it is possible to achieve a quality turnaround by 2006-2007, much less rise above Lexus.

grbeck · February 2004

Mercedes and VW have been trying to grow bigger in this country (Mercedes by expanding downmarket, and brining out an SUV; VW by moving upmarket and bringing out an SUV), and are running into the Toyota and Honda method of operation.

As long as they maintained their niche status and relied on the "engineered for the Autobahn" image, they could get away with niggling reliability problems. People were willing to trade some reliability for the driving experience and style. But as they've tried to grow beyond their niches and become "mass market" brands with more "popularly priced" vehicles, they are discovering that with a larger customer base comes different expectations. And building less expensive vehicles poses a whole new set of challenges, especially for companies that have not had to worry as much about these costs before.

Their factories have never been tops for efficiency, quality and productivity. Both brands depended on a fair amount of repair work as vehicles came off the line. This is fine as long as the sticker price supports that practice, but now that they feeling price pressures like every other car maker, they are discovering its limitations. They, like GM and Ford, must learn how to cut costs while maintaining quality. Any car manufacturer can make a part cheaper...but to make it cheaper AND better...that is the real challenge. Just like GM and Ford, they are discovering that Honda and Toyota have a big lead in this area.

I would argue, in fact, that GM and Ford are ahead of the Germans in this regard. What saves VW and Mercedes (and BMW) is that their vehicles retain that unique German driving "feel" and remain the style leaders. But that will only carry them so far.

merc1 · February 2004

Exactly! That is the best post I've read in quite some, and most certainly the best (most accurate) one about VW and Mercedes' situations here. Very well said.

That ties into what I said here:

merc1 "Ideas for keeping automakers true to their name/past" Feb 13, 2004 3:13am

in another similar topic.

Even more crucial is the fact that many are still willing to put with a unreliable German car for that driving experience. The Germans aren't going to be able to understand it if they lose this position in the market. Only Audi and VW really know what its like to be at rock bottom (1991-1993) in this country, Mercedes and BMW haven't been to that "we might have to leave the U.S." state of being yet.

M

6thbeatle · February 2004

very clear and concise in your analysis.

i think people also forget how hard-working americans are. in france and germany, auto workers get paid more and work shorter hours, while producing fewer cars. these countries are struggling with the challenges of matching production efficiencies in the world marketplace just like south korea and sweden.

grbeck · February 2004

merc1 and 6thbeatle: Thank you.

Merc, you hit the nail on the head when you said that Mercedes should not be pursuing volume. A Mercedes should be rare and special...I think Mercedes are much less impressive relative to the competition once you go below the E-Class. The C-Class Coupe has got to go (around here, they are driven by sorority sister types), and I wouldn't mind if Mercedes ditched the M-Class SUV, either. Let Chrysler and Dodge handle the volume markets, at least in this country.

As for VW - it needs to get its quality act together (including better dealer service), and realize that this is more important than matching Honda and Toyota in volume, or moving upmarket with the Phaeton or Passat W-8.

Everyone I know who owned a VW now drives another brand. They all say the same thing - "I loved the way the car looked and drove, but I just got tired of the constant problems that the dealer couldn't or wouldn't fix."

bpeebles · February 2004

(grbeck) WHen you say...
"Everyone I know who owned a VW now drives another brand. They all say the same thing - 'I loved the way the car looked and drove, but I just got tired of the constant problems that the dealer couldn't or wouldn't fix.' "

You have made the point best... it is most often the inept dealership service that chases away the customers. VW certainly can attract customers and have some the best-looking vehicles around.

It would go a looonnnggg way to making happier customers if the little glitches were fixed properly the first time.

I work with a guy that has less that 10,000 miles on his brand new Toureg.... Now that he has had to go to the dealership for some simple issues, he now beleives he made a mistake. It is NOT the vehicle, it is the dealership sevice that turned him off.

Apparently, VW just does not "get it" that service after the sale is VERY important to keeping customers.

Perhaps dealership mechanics in Germany are more competent or just better trained. I dont know.

Personally, I drove PAST 2 other VW dealerships to get to the best one in my state. It is well worth the drive for me.

boaz47 · February 2004

VW has never got the service issue. This was the very issue that drove the French back to Europe. Even after some close calls VW just doesn't seem to get it and those of us that have had more than one VW aren't sure they ever will.

thor8 · February 2004

Maybe not across the board, I dont know but one dealer.
6 or 7 years ago one day I decided to stop by the VW dealer, it was an old dingy building, the selection and numbers of vehicles was very limited, for miles before and after there are/were all kinds of dealerships, huge lots with hundreds of cars lights, banners crowds of people milling around, an army of salesmen hounding you, deals being negotiated, an air of a bazaar, by contrast the VW dealership was empty, an old warehouse turned into a dealership, old linoleum floor with squares missing with the other half bare concrete, dark with old worn out furniture, as I walked in far in a dark corner was a salesman reading a newspaper, he looked over it and kept reading, the only car inside the floor was a Jetta, I kept looking at the car and going over it and he never bothered with me, finally I went over to him and asked some questions, he answered yes or no without ever standing up, finally I asked him if I could test drive a car and he said no, I was taken aback, the dream come true of any salesman and this one had the attitude of dont bother me. I shrugged my shoulders and left.

Two years later I stopped again, this time they had more cars, more models, I liked the Passat and asked for a test drive, the jovial salesman gave me the keys and I was on my way, I ended up buying one, five years ago and never had a problem once.

About three years ago they built a new dealership a mile down the Blvd, beautiful building, friendly atmosphere, lots of vehicles and models to see, fast and courteous service, the wife or I bring the car for service, no appointment needed, drink a coffee and go over a couple of cars and they are ready with the oil change etc.

I think they are really improving, VW was on the verge of leaving the US seemed to me, they needed a good mix of vehicles first of all for the dealers to make it, as strange as it sounds they are the new kids of the block but I keep hearing stories similar from all directions. Maybe some are still on the first stage, I dont know.

merc1 · February 2004

Yes, it's the dealer that leaves the final bad taste in your mouth after having a problem with a new car.

I truly believe people will forget small problems if the dealer handles them with promptness, courtesy and most of all fixes it right the first time. Things I've had to get fixed on my car aren't even remember once it's done. I *think* that's how most people are.

This coupled with less frequent problems in the first place is the key, I think.

Lexus owners rave about their cars being so reliable, yet in the same breath they'll tell you how great the dealership service was in the same sentence. The argumentive side of me wants to say, if the cars are so reliable, why in the hell do they talk about the dealer so much and why are they there so often....... However, there is something to be learned from this. If a Lexus owner has a problem (and some of them do) it's handled in such a way that the actual problem itself is forgotten and the dealership experience was so good, they actually DON'T MIND going there in the first place. Every European maker needs to study this concept at lot closer. They're making strides, but it doesn't seem to be widespread enough. Tough admission.

grbeck,

Oh what Mercedes should do. I can talk about it all day long. I think Mercedes should have the following models:

C-Class. This should consist of two V6 sedans and a true Coupe with the same engines. No hatchbacks or 4 cylinders. This cuts down on the models and variations of each.

E-Class. Pretty much fine the way it is. Just needs better reliability.

S-Class. Ditto.

CLK-Class. Ditto.

I don't see a problem with all the above vehicles being "volume" cars, but the C needs fewer, more focused models. I mean right now the C240 is a "why" and "what for" model. The 4-cylinder C230 shouldn't be out powering it. That's bass ackwards.

The following should be the truly "special" models and they are to a degree. Though it seems like everyone has an SL.

CLS...a niche vehicle. Limited yearly production no matter how high the demand. Make this one exclusive.

SL - Ditto.

CL - Ditto.

M-Class. This should have been a Range Rover competitor, you know something expensive and exclusive...you know something Mercedes knows how to build and really wanted to build. Instead they went the volume route with a Ford Explorer price and unfortunately quality to match. I want a RR competitor from Mercedes, and not the G, though it's just as or more so capable off-road, on road and interior wise it's a 1970's Nato rescue vehicle.

I'm very worried about the quality of the upcoming GST (R-Class) being built at same plant as the ML. This is a huge opportunity for Mercedes with the cross over thingy. If they blow the quality on the GST, they'll never have any draw with luxury SUV/Crossover buyers, not that ML didn't do enough damage already.

The key to this is making the business plan work fit this. I don't think it will with Chrysler in the mix. Then again it could if Chrysler took care of the volume end by selling lots more cars while making money on their own. Then MB could concentrate on the traditional.

M

merc1 · February 2004

Oh the thread is about VW isn't it...lol.

Well like I said before, VW's biggest problems are reliability and their dealerships.

I can't remember where, but I did read where Mitsu and VW dealers rated their respective manufacturers the lowest of the low and that they hate their current relationship with them.
VWOA clearly doesn't have its German parent's ear, otherwise we'd be getting the new Jetta first instead of the Golf (at the end of the year). I realize the Golf is the bread and butter on VW's Euro side, so I guess the Golf is more important. Guess that's why the Jetta got some minor changes this year.

Thor8...I've been to two dealerships just like the one you describe. One here (Bill Jacobs) used to be combined with a Honda/Mazda store. Well Honda moved out to brand new, very nice facility, while VWs and Mazdas are still sold at a run down facility. The place is drafty, and just plain not clean relative to new dealerships.

I thought VW had a plan in place to update all of their existing dealerships? The best dealers in the Chicagoland area are the only ones that sell Phaetons, with the exception of one in Schaumburg.

I like VW's plan of moving upscale on paper, if moving upscale means still offering a product at the 15K level and then offering a VW in every segment up to the 95K Phaeton W12. If they plan on making the Passat any more expensive they can hang it up, plus they'll be killing Audi, which isn't the strongest of the 3 German luxury brands in the first place. They should offer a mid-level luxury car, but not in direct competition to the Audi A6. There are rumors of a crossover in that space, sounds like a good idea. Audi only has the A6 sedan and wagon there, even though I'm sure a VW crossover will take away some A6 Avant buyers.

The reality of this upmarket push is that Audi is going to lose more than either BMW or Mercedes or any of the Japanese brands. The key is to offer upscale VW's that don't compete with Audi's so directly like the Phaeton does with the A8.

VW needs to make Phaeton level service the norm for all VW cars, well maybe not the pick you up thing, as they sell too many Passats/Jettas/Golfs for that, but the general principles need to be applied across the board. The Touareg alone (a stunning product itself) deserves this level of dealer support.

M

thor8 · February 2004

Well is a slow uphill road, I remember in the early 70s many of the Japanese brands were sold as a sideline at domestic dealerships, I remember right after the so called oil embargo I went to the Honda dealer and looked at a Civic I think, it was a small building in the used car section of a huge Ford dealership, even with all the doom and gloom of the oil crisis I couldnt trade my perfectly good Pontiac Bonneville for less than 2K and end up paying another 2 or 3 K for that little car.

My point was that VW dealerships were doing OK selling bugs and their variants, when the bugs were discontinued VW offerings were not that appealing, I remember people commenting the new cars would never be as good as the old bug and that idea persisted for a long time, those dealerships barely survived in a point of stagnant mediocrity, just a few years ago new life came to the VW line with the new models, I think of it as a wilting plant on a neglected pot and finally getting some water.

I also agree with you about the Phaeton, it should be sold under the Audi name, the VW line should be caped at the Passat and instead a rugged pickup that could use the 560ft/lbs torque of the V10 diesel and the other excellent VW diesels and they also should go ahead and introduce that good looking sports car I have seen. Thats a hell of a good looking car. The W12 600hp sports car concept that has being going around for a few years should also be under the Audi line.

Is your E Mail address valid?

boaz47 · February 2004

Just those of us in this forum it wouldn't be so bad. But Surveys like JD Powers. and even CR prove the negative press even today. I got my second VW because friends assured me VW was doing better. Ten years later I got my third, same reason. Strike three. However till I see an improvement in the surveys and magazines I will be very doubtful.

6thbeatle · February 2004

you're a pretty optimistic person to even get to strike three as far as VWs go. I think the two-year limited warranty they had on their vehicle line-up for the longest time pretty much says it all.

black_tulip · February 2004

Lexus owners rave about their cars being so reliable, yet in the same breath they'll tell you how great the dealership service was in the same sentence.

You seem to be laboring under the misconception that people visit service departments only when their vehicles break down. I have never had a breakdown but I do visit my dealer's service department for routine maintenance. Anyway, I know why owners rave about Lexus service:
1) You can get a free car wash when you just stop by...no need to get anything done
2) Your car is clean and ready when promised and the work is done correctly everytime
3) You are treated with respect

I am also very impressed by a squeaky clean shop floor with neatly arranged parts bins.

On the other hand, when I called Audi service about a check engine light in my A4, the conversation went like:
-I have a check engine light on, can I bring my car over sometime today?
-We are rather busy, unless the light is blinking, just keep driving
I had the misfortune of owning a Merc C class also. Everytime something would break, I would get this treatment as if it is my fault.

These are the things VW needs to learn.

thor8 · February 2004

But please dont leave the other side of the equation out, the bumper to bumper was 24 months but additionally the engine and drive train was 100,000 miles or ten years and ten years for rust, they were offering the 100K drive train warranty when nobody else was doing it at the time. (as far as I know)

In 1998 I walked in the VW dealership and bought a Passat 1,8 turbo 5spd, going into 6 years now, the car never had a problem, not even electrical. At 80K we still have 20,000 miles warranty left on the engine/drive train or four more years to cancel it, which ever comes first.

corvette · February 2004

At most high-end dealerships, the customers are extremely insulated from the shop floor, so I'm (pleasantly) surprised you would know if it were clean or not.

thor8,
VW/Audi now offer 12 year rust-through, unlimited miles. You are extremely lucky to have a trouble-free, late-model VW, although the Passat seems to have fewer problems than the Jetta, Golf, and New Beetle.

merc1 · February 2004

I think you stopped reading my post after that line??? I wasn't suggesting that the only time a Lexus owner visits a dealer is for a breakdown. My point was that when something does happen they get a level of care that pretty much erases the frustration of having a problem with the car in the first place.

Other dealerships do the same thing, including MB, BMW, and even Audi. It's just not written into their agreements like it is with Lexus, so it varies.

M

black_tulip · February 2004

No, I read the whole thing. I responded to it because you used the phrase "in the same breath" implying a contradiction, when in reality, none exists.

So why doesn't Audi write it into their contracts? Seems like that's the first step. The place I bought my A4 from in NJ, was a BMW/VW/Audi/Porsche dealer crammed into a single one story dilapidated building. Getting a parking spot there is half the challenge. The one I used to take it to for service,(I moved) was a Pontiac/GMC/Audi dealer. I was trated the same as a guy who bought a 15K Pontiac Sunbird. When I last went in there, the Audi dealer had moved into a trailer nearby. Great!

fish8 · February 2004

Your statement about high end dealers isolating their clients from the shop floor.....

My Father owned numerous Lexus(i) in the past 7 years and currently ownes a Mercedes E320. All the dealers he brings his cars to invite him into the "shop" to view the work being done on his cars. My Dad actually enjoys "watching" the Techs. So, I am not sure how accurate your statement is.

grbeck · February 2004

Is he allowed to walk into the work area? Dealers usually forbid customers from venturing into the actual work area, because of liability concerns.

merc1 · February 2004

But I said if I were arguing the point, which I clearly explained that I wasn't.

M

black_tulip · February 2004

You are right, I misunderstood.

corvette · February 2004

fish8,
I didn't realize that!

grbeck,
I think that putting signs up saying customers are not allowed in the work area pretty much absolves them of liability. I have been invited onto the floor to view a problem with my car on a couple of occasions, but I was accompanied by an employee.

ronbo10 · February 2004

Howdy to all. First time I've posted on any of the VW message boards. Finally getting around to letting at least some people know of my experience. I'm the original owner of a '96 Golf GTI VR-6.

It's had some niggling problems over the years, most fixed under warranty (bought the extended warranty for about $1000- 7yr/100,000 b2b, with a few exceptions). Power window regulators (both sides), parking brake cable, etc.

About 3 years ago I had begun to have problems with a misfire/hesitation in one (or more) of the cylinders that presented itself only while it was raining or wet out, causing the check-engine light to illuminate. I brought it in to the dealership with the light still on, but the hesitation had cleared itself by then, as the rain had gone and the heat the engine produces had dried out whatever the culprit was such that the engine no longer missed. (This was typical, and when I decided to bring it in was hardly the first time these symptoms had appeared).

The PA VW dealer that I had taken it to performed their diagnostic check, and decided that the culprit was the spark plug wires. So they changed them out, declared the car fit, and presented me with the bill for $200, which included the cost of the diagnosis, as plug wires aren't covered under the extended warranty, ergo neither is the cost of the diagnosis. Oh well, at least it's fixed, or so I thought.

Luck was such that we in the northeast then had an extremely dry summer, and I had had no occasion to drive the car while it was raining, or even wet out, for about 3 months. But the first time that I again had to drive the car in the wet, the same symptoms immediately reappeared, check engine light and all.

Well, this time I brought it in with the misfire still present, so they were better able to properly diagnose the problem. Turns out it was the coil packs (I've not checked this forum, but I assume this problem has been well documented here, as I believe the packs were later subject to a recall on various Audi/VW automobiles).

They changed the coil packs out (covered by warranty) but required that the plug wires be changed (virtually brand new, as you recall). VW would not warrant the new coil packs unless I had this done- perhaps a bad coil pack can break down the resistance of the plug wire, putting in jeopardy the life of the new coil pack.

My feeling was (and is) that these coil packs were the causal problem in the first place, and were simply not properly diagnosed, causing me to have to pay for an unnecessary repair. To boot, once the coil packs were finally changed out, I still had to pay for the second set of new plug wires, as they were not covered under warranty. Never mind that it was these very coil packs of inferior quality that caused me to have to change the plug wires out in the first place. To me, that's tantamount to saying that, oops, the cylinder head studs failed and the whole cylinder head popped off, putting a huge dent in the hood, but only the engine components are covered by the warranty, so we're not going to buy you a new hood. Is my logic faulty here? Is my feeling of being treated unjustly unwarranted?

So to synopsize, my feeling is this:

1) On the first visit to the dealer, the plug wires should have never been changed out for the misfiring ignition. It didn't fix a thing.

2) Once faulty coil packs are changed, VW should also pick up the tab for the new plug wires, as it was their faulty coil packs that caused the plug wires to be potentially damaged in the first place.

3) In total, this cost me about $350 out of pocket that I shouldn't have had to pay. This didn't break the bank, but what are warranties for, anyway?

4) Overall, I like VW's, but unless they can prove to me that they will stand behind their product better than this, then they've lost me as a customer.

Epilogue:

I registered my complaint with the service manager, who would give me no satisfaction, suggesting I take it up with a higher authority, which I did. I went as high as you can go with such issues. The woman at VW America who finally called me said that no, we're not going to warrant the first new set of plug wires or the cost of the original diagnosis, sorry. Your original problem with the misfire/hesitation is a separate issue, the coil pack problem was another issue entirely. Case closed.

Has anyone here had a similar experience?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Cheers

6thbeatle · February 2004

yes, and i will never go through that nightmare again. i do not pay good money to end up with a car with terrible build quality, abysmal reliabilty ratings, and the most smug, surly, unhelpful, and downright mean-spirited after-sales customer service i have ever experienced.

i think VW capitalizes on people who are seduced by their trendy hip marketing campaigns and attractive packaging, but hide the fact that their cars are horribly plagued with ongoing problems. the day i sold my jetta i was very angry because i took a big loss, but i couldn't deal with not knowing how my car would behave at any given time, or whether i would get to my destination on time.

who needs a vehicle you can't count on? too bad because it had a rather pretty interior.

perna · February 2004

Usually, I'm a bit sad to see my cars go. Even my '96 Jetta, a little bit.. it handled great and was fun to drive. Really, though, when I replaced that car it was one of the most exciting car days of my life (02/00, I had the car 4 yrs). No more trips to the dealer, no more watching my car be towed away, no more check engine light... How is it a brand new car (at the time) could be less reliable than even the biggest automotive turd anyone in my family has ever had?

I'm currently a Nissan owner, and have never been happier. I check this board once in awhile to empthasize with people who are suffering in VW hell. And to warn prospective customers to STAY AWAY from this brand. I will say, however, that my dealer was better than what I've been reading about on here. I always got a loaner, and they usually fixed the problem the first time (although it would no doubt reappear at some point a few months down the road).

It's just good business, to treat someone well who has sunk thousands of dollars into a nearly new car just to make it to college and back. Good job, VW, not only will I never buy anything from you or Audi again, but I've written off all German cars as crap and VW is one of 2-3 companies that I viscerally hate. After owning a VW I clearly understand why the American car companies are having such a hard time getting all the people they screwed in the 70s/80s "back in the saddle" so to speak.

corvette · February 2004

Aren't BMW's reliability ratings midpack, i.e., well above VW? Mercedes is probably down there near VW...

merc1 · February 2004

Re post #125, yes my email is vaild. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I didn't even see your post?!?

M

suavechavo · February 2004

Sorry to about your troubles. Well, it seems that their service hasn't improved since the last time I was at their dealership's service dept (over 13 yrs ago). I think I would have tried another dealership before I called VW, but you may too late as youve already called VW corporate and they've given you their final ruling.

My dealership experience was basically the same as yours. But, a co-worker once recommended another dealership whose service was 100 times better than the dealership I was going to. He told me that his wife had a 90s Passat w/ ~58K miles that had snapped a timing belt, which destroyed the engine completely. Even though the car was out of warranty, the service mgr. helped him in negotiations with VW in order for them to only eat about 10 or 15% of the cost of a new engine. It was still lot of money, but I know my dealership would have not even have tried to help me at all.

Anyway my advice, either call another dealership or call VW back.

Also, BMWs reliability has also suffered, only the 5 series seems to be holding up alright, but that the previous model....

boaz47 · February 2004

that VW is a lot better than it used to be and earlier you'll see what I mean. in this forum I expressed my doubts but I did say that in 2001 the Passat almost won me back. However looking on my MSN site I saw the car rating section that references dependability. Looks like not much has changed. If you plug in a 2001 Jetta or Passat you will see what I mean.

lewshel · February 2004

It may be tempting fate to say this but in the year that I have owned my Golf GLS TDI I have had few issues. I have driven 27,000 miles. The car is quiet on the highway and I get betweeen 44-48 mpg even with winter fuel and Semperit snow tires all around. There is still a chirp in the left front brake that will have to wait until spring. My dealer, Patrick VW, has provided good service (except for the chirp which they have not heard). The quality of the interior is quite good and the ride quality excellent.
We are considering buying a Passat GLX 4 motion sedan. We went to an Audi dealership to test the A4 Quattro. There are fine cars but there seems to be a level of dealer arrogance not found at VW. I wish VW would offer a Passat TDI with 4 motion, especially here in Massachusetts.

cattleman45 · March 2004

I have a Seat Toledo TDiSE which has proved to be a marvellous car. At over 92,000 miles it is early days for an excellent diesel engine. My Seat was made in the VW factory in Belgium. They have since moved production to Spain. The car truly has never let me down. Not even a squeak or rattle. Good looks, plenty of mid- range torque and fantastic economy. I have also had excellent reliability over the years with a number of VWs.
Recently I went for a test drive in the VW Touran compact MPV. The one I drove had the latest 2.0 litre diesel engine. I was greatly impressed. Good roadholding, good economy and an incredibly useful vehicle. Unfortunately most people in the UK go for the Citroen Picasso, the new Renault Scenic and the Vauxhall ( Opel ) Zafira. Also the new Ford Focus C-Max. I think it is a shame, that people in the UK and Ireland don't buy more Tourans. I feel they are crazy. The Touran also has better residuals.

6thbeatle · March 2004

have you or any of your friends ever driven the renault avantime, alfa 146, or alfa 156 sportwagon? just curious. thanks!

taylor3 · March 2004

My 2000 Golf GLS 2.0 was trouble from day one. Engine idle was rough, speedometer was calibrated wrong, major idle in the dash, major creaks and rattles in the headliner. Dealer (only one in Greensboro NC has a good service department, but the sales department just rips you off and does not care if you have problems) VW of America "Customer Service" is anything but. Never have I been treated so rudely. Never again VW...Never! I forever will continue to tell people looking for cars to stay away from them, if you do not want a lemon. If you like going to dealership service departments 2-3 times a month...then definitely buy a VW...

cattleman45 · March 2004

VW are assembled in many different countries. It seems you have a rubbish assembly point for the USA.
I have owned several VWs and had wonderful service. My present car is a Seat Toledo TDiSE which was assembled in Belgium by VW ( they now have moved the Toledo to the Seat assembly plant in Spain. My Toledo is a fantastic car. It has never let me down and still has no rattles or squeaks. It has now done well over 94,000 miles, which of course is only the start of a big mileage for a diesel. It is also a lovely looking car.
As there has been militant strike action at some assemblies. It definitely is a matter of luck where a car is assembled.

wetwillie · March 2004

I agree, the various assembly plants are not held to the same standard. Assembly quality that was assumed in the country of origin is NOT transplanted to the outposts.

I owned (new) an '02 24V, 6sp. VR6 GTI that was assembled in Brazil. Front sway bar endlink missing, replaced transmission, alignment problems among others were cause enough for me to dump the car.

VWNA horrible service notwithstanding, I took a chance on a (used, of course) 2000 4dr Golf 1.8T, 5sp. because I love the design of this car. This car was built in Germany and has been trouble-free and a joy to drive.

VW seems bent on repeating their Pennsylvania mining disaster of the 80's with their Brazil and Mexico experiments and can't react quick enough to stop the bleeding. Their arrogance in even admitting they have such problems with remote assembly and outsourcing will surely accelerate their plunge into insignificance. This is the WRONG attitude to have in an increasingly competitive marketplace and is compounded with their HORRIBLE NorthAmerican service.

sftroubl · March 2004

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I'm on my second Golf and couldn't be happier. My car is a 2001 Golf GL 2.0, purchased in December 2000. I don't put a lot of miles on it (about 18,200 presently), but the car has had a couple of long, hard, cross-country drives and been absolutely trouble free. The only problem I've had is a piece of interior trim that came loose, apparently because the glue couldn't take the Washington, D.C. summer heat last year, and an intermittent problem with my temperature gauge. Other than that, the car has given me no problems at all and feels absolutely rock-solid.

lewshel · March 2004

Ist problem. The Am band of the radio doesn't work. The FM reception is less clear. I suspect the antenna. I ahve removed it every time I go throught the car wash. Anybody else have this problem? I have an appointment next week as it is still under warranty.

bpeebles · March 2004

It left millions of little swirlsmraks all over the paint that took me hours to buff out. NEVER AGAIN!!

I only hand wash and wax. If I want a quik cleanup, I use a squirt-it-yourself carwash.

Besides, as you suggest, a carwash may do other damage too. Good thing you are under warantee. (and stay away from those carwashes ;-)

corvette · March 2004

The antenna is amplified, perhaps it's not getting power.

lewshel · April 2004

Dealer repaired antenna under warranty. 2 1/2 hour job with cable in roof etc.I still enjoy the car as much as when new.

VW brand experience - good or bad?

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