Mazda RX-8 Problems and Solutions

dtran2149 · November 2003

I think the car is an extremely pleasant drive and is very well mannered; if it did have that extra 50 to 75 hp and a bit more torque, it would be perfect. However, if Mazda is really considering a new RX-7, keeping the RX-8's output roughly where it is (maybe just get back to 250-260 hp range) is smart as to not have the two models come too close in terms of "the numbers."

boomn29 · November 2003

If the RX-7 is going to compete, I think it needs to push the 300 envelope.

I know they are different cars, but the 350Z, G35, EVO, and STi are all in the 270-300hp range now. Think of we're they'll all be in 3-4 years when the supposed RX-7 comes out!

Plus, the base WRX and SRT-4, both with 4 doors, are surpassing the RX-8 in power output now!

I prefer handling myself, but big hp tends to sell cars here in the States.

cheezeboy · November 2003

rx8driver - I am glad to just have the AC issue and not the stalling! I will share all info on the AC issue when I get it....it is not that big of a deal to me, but it should get resolved.

Question: what does reving the engine to 3K before shut off do to eliminate stalling? If I get off the highway, going at 4K or 5K and then pull into my driveway and then turn off, would she stall? I can't see how reving it would do anything to cure stalling the next day. But, I am a graphic artist and not a mechanic; I defer to those with more mechanical experience!!

dtran2149 · November 2003

I think revving to 3k rpm is only a suggestion (not a requirement) intended to help assist the car in reaching normal operating temperature before you turn it off (assuming you had a cold start).

mhprx8 · November 2003

I just bought the 04 rx8 with the automatic tranny and i was reading all the disscussions on the board about engine stalling and cold starts could anyone please let me know if this refers to both autos and sticks

mazdafun · November 2003

Even though their output curves are a bit different, the same issues will affect your AT-equipped RX-8.

cheezeboy · November 2003

This morning I was driving and I was stuck at a long light. I felt the AC doing it's little 'cycling' thing on my hand. No big deal. Then I looked over at the vents. I was sitting under an overpass, but the sunshine was perfectly entering my car at a weird angle....and I saw vapor!....each time the AC cycled, I saw a nice vapor cloud. Now, my brain is trying to remember the physics needed and involved to make all this happen, then I thought about the possibility I was a secret agent and this was "knock-out" gas....then the light went green, I woke from my fantasy, and I drove off!....but it did perplex me as to the cause. It was slightly humid out. I had been driving for about 5 min. AC was set to fan speed 1 and cold setting rotated to about 10 o'clock on the dial. Any physics guru's out there want to tell me whats up?....gotta be water vapor right?... condensed then pressure changed somehow?..I leave it up for discussion!

( I have a feeling GGuy is going to tell me it was "Knock-out Gas" and I am still out, hidden away on a secret island of some mad, evil genius, bent on world destruction.)

mhprx8 · November 2003

does anyone know where i can find affordable accessories for my rx8?

mazdafun · November 2003

When humid air is cooled below it's "dew point", or reaches near 100% relative humidity (% water in same volume of air decreases as the air temp decreases), you'll start to see condensation or misty air.

It's normal, especially if the air outside is very humid. I've seen it when driving through pockets of humidity trapped in valleys on hilly roads. It's kind of cool (pun intended...feel free to groan).

mcballz13 · November 2003

I got my car in the mid of summer and I noticed the vapor coming out very often. Every time I had the a/c on it would happen for a couple mins at a time. The thing that gets me is how come it is happening with the rx-8 and I've never noticed it with any other vehicle I have owned???

P.S. It was a high temp of 43 degree's today in Philly! I couldn't even think of a/c right now.. Wish I was wherever you are...

redrpm · November 2003

Anyone else having issues with their engine above 6,000 rpm? Mine gets VERY coarse, and loses power...seems to hesitate, cut out, and bog down. Above 6,000 is not a pleasant place to be. I also seem to hear a slight knocking/pinging at lesser RPMs...say 4,500. I'm not very familiar with rotaries so don't know if they can "ping/knock" like traditional piston engines...?

Took it to the dealer for the bogging above 6,000 and another RX8 pulled in behind me...for the same problem! Said this was his second time in for that issue. The dealer didn't have a fix from Mazda for this yet...and simply reset part of the engine software. They did this by turning the ignition key to "on" (but not starting the car) and then depressing the brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds. Apparently this is their "fix" for now. It acted fine for a few days, but is now back.

Part of the "joy" of a 9,000 redline is actually getting to use it...but until this nastiness above 6,000 gets fixed it's not much fun at all. Anyone else experiencing this same issue? And if so, what have you been told by your dealer/Mazda? They revealed their temporary fix to me so I wouldn't have to keep bringing it in every time it did this...but surely there's an actual solution to this issue besides a brake pedal aerobic workout every few days.

Thanks for any insight.

gjm4 · November 2003

Have an automatic RX8 which I purchased about 4 weeks ago. Tried to start car tonight after not using for 2 days. Car started and stalled after a couple of seconds. Then would not start again. Very upsetting considering the car has only 1500 miles. I am waiting now for roadside assistance. Will post results later.

mkoll · November 2003

It is interesting that you should mention this. I had been reading my owner's manual today and remembered reading something regarding fuel cut out. Check page 5-32 there is a note regarding engine temperature which states that the engine will not run at high speeds when the coolant temperature is low and that the fuel supply will be cut at an rpm lower than the red zone. I'm not sure if this relates to your problem or not. Does the temperature gauge indicate a normal reading when this is happening?
I have noticed the last two mornings that when I start my vehicle the engine coolant level warning light comes on briefly. It looks like my coolant level is a bit low. I find that a little strange since I've only had the car for 2 1/2 weeks and have a total of 850 miles on it. I would have thought that the dealer would have all of the fluid levels proper. If so why have I lost that much coolant already? I thought that the oil was the thing to watch, no issue there.....yet.
Anyway, I have not experienced the power loss that you are describing, but I may push the revs more to see what happens tomorrow.
Your question caught my attention and got me wondering if the two may not somehow be related.

qbrozen · November 2003

just curious. you just signed up for edmunds and made this one post in the rX8 forum. Why didn't you list the RX8 in your profile and an FX35 instead?

redrpm · November 2003

Will be interested to see (but hoping not!) if you have any cutout/rev issues. I tried the reset procedure my dealer prescribed (brake 20 times in 8 seconds) this morning but got so focused on the 8 seconds that I lost count of the braking! Seemed silly sitting in my garage doing that so headed off to work...and experienced the same cutting out/coarseness. I'll try again tomorrow, and may give the dealer a call today to see if they've learned anything definitive from Mazda. By the way, I only attempt those revs once the engine has completely warmed, so I don't think it's caused by it not being ready.

I haven't had any coolant issues but will watch for it. Might try topping it off under your own eye and monitoring the levels from there. Could certainly have been low from dealer....

gjm4 · November 2003

I leased an FX45 at the beginning of Sept. and purchased the RX8 in October for my son. The RX8 is actually his car and since we were not able to start it he had to drive my daughter's car (a Beetle) back to college yesterday. The car was flat bedded to the dealer early this morning. It's interesting that the tow truck driver said that this was the 3rd RX8 that he had towed into the dealer (in the last couple of weeks) because of the stalling problem.

The dealer (service manager) feels that there is something going on with the car that will have to be corrected by Mazda. I am currently waiting to hear back from the dealer.

qbrozen · November 2003

be sure to fill us in.

gjm4 · November 2003

Just got car back from dealer. Told that I had flooded engine and the spark plugs were fouled. They cleaned out the fuel, replaced the plugs and changed the oil. Car now starts.

This whole explanation doesn't really fly with me as all I did was turn the ignition to start the car. Car started but died after 3 seconds and then would not start again. I didn't touch the gas pedal. Don't understand how I could have flooded the car. (prior to starting, car was left outside for 36 hours in 20-30 degree weather)

They gave me a zerox copy of page in owners manual that tells you how to start the car when it is flooded. You hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank the ignition for up to 10 seconds and car is supposed to start (you immediately take foot off gas pedal when it starts).

In any event I am very skeptical about what kind of problems I am going to have with this car as the years go by. If it is has this problem when it is one month old, I'm very aprehensive about what the future holds.

brown0253 · November 2003

My RX8 is only 5 weeks old with about 1200 miles on it. I've been really happy with it until the check oil light came on last week. Took it in to the dealer and he said it was a known problem with the senser in the oil pan. However when they had it up on the rack they found a pin-hole / casting defect in the head that was apparently leaking coolant. They are going to replace my engine under warranty. Not sure if I'm happy with that resolution considering the car is only 1 month old. Mazda is reluctant to replace the car in total. Should I settle on a new engine replaced by a dealership??

swiftnet · November 2003

I've had my RX8 for almost two months, have close to 3000 miles on it and have had no problems except for the cycling AC, even that is a non-issue. I live in Florida where AC is a major must have, and the AC in the car keeps me comfortable, not cold, but cool.
I always warm the car up before driving off, about 30-45sec of idling. As soon as the engine is warm (3 to 5 minutes of 3~5krpms) I drive it like I ride my motorcycle, that is vary rpm's, rev it alot, hit 8000rpm often. These motors need to rev, riding around at 3 or 4K will clog them up. Ask the RX7 people, these engines need to rev to keep them clean.
I haven't experienced the problems of check engine light or coolent leaks - I drive pretty hard and my only complaint is the dsc defaults to the on postion - I'd rather have it off ; ) I have added a quart of oil to the car and am patiently waiting for my carbon fiber look bra, because the front end is beginning to look a bit pockmarked. I am very happy with the power, not that I wouldn't mind more, but cars just aren't in the same league as bikes, if you want to feel scary acceleration, get a bike. I've never had the car above 135mph, it felt stable but a little light at that speed, anyone get it to 148? What does it feel like at that speed?

The 6000rpm issue may be the auxiliary port valve is sticking, this is supposed to open at 6250rpm. At 7250rpm the variable intake valve and the variable fresh air duct open up. This is why it is a good idea to rev the engine to keep all of these valves operational.

I love the RX8 and will be looking for the RX7 when it debuts.

Drive fast, Drive safe. They can go together.

qbrozen · November 2003

they will definitely not replace the entire car. I'm surprised they are replacing the entire engine, frankly. Seems to me they would just replace the head. Its all a matter of cost. Guess it works out cheaper for them to replace the whole engine.

zeltar · November 2003

I've had my RX8 for a little over one month. In the first week of ownership, I brought the car back to the dealership 3 times. Not one of the problems have they been able to fix. Instead, they've order parts that never come. In the mean time, I drive around with the check engine light on, Rough mis-fire sounding engine at start, an Engine that will cut out over 6000 RPMs (sometimes), and a faulty alarm system (Mazda says this was installed at the docks).

Mazda Service Department tells me the problem is the PCM. This is the Powertrain Control Module, or the circuit board that is the brains to the car. They tell me Mazda is redesigning the board, and that I'll have to wait for it to be productionalized, built, and shipped. Mazda cannot give me a date.

Seems to me that this would be the resolution to many of the problems I read here. Is Mazda blowing me smoke, or has anyone else heard of the faulty PCM circuit board?

redrpm · November 2003

Have spent a ton of time the past few nights researching other RX8 owners' boards (esp ***.rx8club.com). I'm not as well versed as many there, but there is definitely an issue with the ECU. The genesis of the problem likely goes back to Mazda's last minute manuevering to meet emissions regs.

In order to satisfy catalytic converter longevity performance standards (at 50k and 100k+), it is believed Mazda had to make a last minute fix...possibly while cars were already in the process of being shipped. Because of obvious time constraints, the fire drill "fix" was to reprogram the ECU to run (too) rich of a fuel mixture. A richer mixture results in cooler exhaust, which in theory extends the life of the cat.

This is ESPECIALLY the case below 3500 rpm and ABOVE 6000 rpm. Note the sooty exhaust tips. In between it actually runs on the lean side. The drop in HP is related, as is the lower than expected MPG numbers. Individual tuners are leading the charge here in an effort to reclaim the lost HP and "restore" the car's driveablility via corrected air/fuel mix programming. Obviously it's a complex and time consuming effort.

Mazda is in a bit of a predicament on this. They have not admitted what they did to satisfy the last minute ECU issues. Doing so might also make them have to redress the MPG figures. A real fix from Mazda could be provided (after sufficient internal development) that could be administered in the form of a reflash of the ECU. Mazda had to do something similar for the MazdaSpeed Protege, which they did rather quietly.

Again I'm not an expert on this (read, don't shoot the messenger) but have learned much from other sites that are discussing this at length. I share this in an effort to raise owners' awareness of a problem Mazda HQ needs to address - publicly and quickly. Educate yourself to the extent you can, and then act as you're moved. The car is too great for us, and too important to Mazda, to sweep a handicapping, last minute, band aid fix under the rug.

wildstars · November 2003

I got my RX-8 this past weekend, and the next day, I started to smell burning oil. I Checked to make sure the oil cap was on, and that there was no oil leak that I could find.

Is this burning oil smell normal for a new rotary, if so, does it go away?

Other than that little quibble, I love the car.

flatpick · November 2003

No AC Problems
No Stalling as of yet
Loud cluck when engaging first gear from dead stop?
MPG around 17

Took it on a 250 mile trip....oil light on and off every 20-35 minutes if mph over 70...below 70 no oil light...

Are the dealers offering a fix for that yet??

qbrozen · November 2003

yes. its on this board somewhere, but there is a bevel that needs to be installed in the oil pan to fix that.

dcaslin · November 2003

My RX8 with 700 miles on it seems to be running fine, but the Check Engine light just came on. Judging by what I've read here, there is little that the dealer will do to fix this for now, is it even worth the trouble of bringing it in?

cheezeboy · November 2003

dcaslin.......my thoughts: there are a bunch of things that the Check Engine light would go off for. I would hate to think it was something minor (which it probably is) but then it was a big deal and the engine is now toast! Stop by the dealer if they are close and have it looked at.....better safe than sorry with such a beautiful car!.....

mkeebler · November 2003

I'm in the process of buying a new RX-8. After reading all the problems here (low horse power, bad A-C, engine light problems, oil-light problems, flooded engines, etc.), I am really thinking of not buying one! Why should I spend $30k on a new car with these kind of problems?

zoomrx8 · November 2003

I have had my rx* 6 spd manual trans for 3 months. I had the oil light problem fixed by replacement of oil pan. I have the air conditioner cycling problem anoying but i can live with it. My car makes a slight banging noise from the wheel weels when cold started. I have had no other problems no stalling or starting problems. I think it has to do with how you drive the car. If you are going to obey the speed aws and drive like a grandma this is not your car. I constantly rev to 6 or 7,000 rpm and red line at least twice a week. I beleive this is keeping my plugs clean. I am in florida so frost and snow are not my problem winter driving is a consideration as far as engine revs go. I have never enjoyed driving any auto in my 56 years of life as much as my rx8. I think mazda has to communicate better with owners they are closed mouthed about waht is wrong with the car. My rx 8 runs rich the chrome tail pipe extender is always carbon soot coated. My gas millage has no ever been more than 16mpg. All I can say is this machine is more stable at 100mph than most cars at 55

graphicguy · November 2003

I've posted most of this elsewhere, but being a 3 month RX8 owner (and a sports car fanatic), I thought I'd try to address this all in one place....

-stalling...if you flood the car (which can be done on any car), hold the accelerator to the floor and crank until it starts. This isn't a problem as any piston engine and computer controlled fuel delivery can cause this "hiccup".
-A/C...yes, it does cycle between frosty cold and cool air. Don't know if it's something to fix, but it results from Mazda offering "auto climate control" in units deliverd outside of North America. Some of the electronics (with the exception of the "auto climate") being part of the worldwide RX8 cars that causes the A/C cycling once it gets to the temp you set on your temp knob.
-oil light...known problem fixed by installing baffles in your oil pan. Warranty issue that is an easy fix from your dealer
-"clunk" sound when starting off....normal sound. It's the ABS calibrating itself.
-different sound with clutch in/out....normal, nothing wrong...just the different sound the clutch and throw-out bearings make when engaged/disengaged
-MPG...this one is all over the map. In general, rotaries don't hit peak MPG until they get some miles on them. Personally, I'm getting 18 MPG in town and 24 MPG on all highway, which is exactly what the MSRP sticker says I sould get. Mine started out pretty dismal, though.
-front speakers cutting out...sounds like a short in the wiring. Get your dealer to fix.
-CEL (check engine light)...could be many things. First, make sure you always tighten your gas cap (3-4 clicks) when you fill-up as this will trigger the emmissions computer if loose (true of any recent car). After that, it gets a bit trickier. Some early builds had to have the Engine Control Units (ECU) reflashed because of the catalytic converters as prevously stated. This cause a few units to send false readings to the EVAP units, setting off the CEL. EVAP units are replaced under warranty. Thermostats will do different things in different climates. It's very rare for thermostats to be "bad". This can also trigger the CEL if readings aren't within spec. Personally, I think dealer service people go to the "fix" that is easiest and the one that takes the least amount of research. Therefore, they blame the thermostat for CEL, since it's easy. You need a tech who is "up-to-date" in their training to do the correct fix instead of the easy fix.

beacon2 · November 2003

After numerous visits for a vacccum leak my intake manifold was replaced!

Less then 10 000 km on the car!!!!!!
entire subframe, engine, transmission, exhaust dropped to do the repair.....anyone else have this problem?

graphicguy · November 2003

In general, I believe a lot of Mazda dealerships have been "dragging their feet" in getting qualified rotary techs that know the RX8. Thus, a lot of things that aren't really problems and a lot of things that are misdiagnosed as problems are being put out there.

beacon...I'll assume that you had a CEL? The very first thing the tech should have checked was the gascap. I certainly haven't heard of any manifold leaks. If there was one, then either there are holes in the manifold (not likely) or the manifold gasket wasn't seated correctly or faulty. If that was the case, the problem would have manifested itself immediately. Did they test the EVAP?

Given how far back and low the engine is located, it wouldn't surprise me that they'd have to drop the engine to get to the manifold, if that was indeed the problem.

beacon2 · November 2003

Actually, car was in roughly 8 times for the check engine light. They replaced the gas cap. light came back. They brought in a smoke machineto check for leaks, NFF. They then got an answer from tech support to bring the car back in to replace the intake manifold. They same up hear, just got off the phone with them earlier,, that ours is the first one with the problem.
I did not buy it.

The tech has super rotor knowledge. He replaced turbo's, engine, waterpumps, exhaust, brakes, alarm system, interior trim on my 1993 turbo all under warranty. Bought this one despite all the previous generation problems because it still is one of the best rides out there for the money. Got rid of a TT 225 for it, like it better then my 1997 C5......but these problems are scary!

beacon2 · November 2003

forgot to mention, they replaced the manifold, not just the gasket. Went hands on with the tech to look at everything. Despite the mech prob's, still impressive piece of work, power vs. weight and size. Amazing little keg of pwr.

graphicguy · November 2003

TSB for "low oil level" sensor repair:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01_027_03.htm

TSB for "CEL":

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/01-024-03.html

This one mainly calls for the PCM (EVAP) to be reprogrammed.

beacon...this may solve your problem as it solved mine (they actually replaced and reprogrammed mine).

beacon2 · November 2003

forgot to mention, they replaced the manifold, not just the gasket. Went hands on with the tech to look at everything. Despite the mech prob's, still impressive piece of work, power vs. weight and size. Amazing little keg of pwr.

cheezeboy · November 2003

Thanks for the bulletins!!...You are a cornucopia of knowledge! I have a question: where do you get these bulletins from? Are you on a email list and, if so, how do we got on that same list? Just curious! BTW, you rock!

graphicguy · November 2003

I've got a good relationship with my local Mazda Rotary Master Tech. He tells me of the TSBs. Most of the info I get comes from him. I also get a lot from the local RX8 club.

I know a few people that would disagree with you about the amount of knowledge I carry around in my noggin.

BTW...I saw your post about the horn/alarm. You've stumped me. Short of putting a less loud aftermarket horn in it, I don't know how to turn its volume down.....

carliker · November 2003

graphic - You make a good point about Mazda dealerships dragging their feet on finding experienced rotary technicians. I think the car has those kind of problems that any brand new vehicle would, but most dealerships aren't equipping themselves with how to service it. That's what is troublesome. You are fortunate to have such a good relationship with your dealership. My dealership was out of my way to get to and it would have been too much of a hassle to go back and forth for these minor problems. Plus, I had a bad feeling on how prepared they were for the RX-8 since it took them a month after I bought the car to know the MSRP on optional parts.

beacon2 · November 2003

Graphic guy,

Thanks for your input!
Keep the story going. CEL came on last night. It is back in the shop. Heard a slight swoosh sound on acceleration like "an intake leak."

beacon2 · November 2003

to everyone on this site, great to educate ourselves to the ongoing problems with our rotary rockets. The more we all know the more we can "help" our respective dealers fix our cars!

graphicguy · November 2003

Ask your dealer about the TSB I posted in message #90 about reprogramming the PCM. Better yet, print it out and show it to them. Also, ask them if they checked your EVAP.

Seems to me they are making mountains out of molehills.

You also might want to ask them if they have the correct diagnostic tools to make the repair in the TSB. The only reason I can figure that they wouldn't have tried reprogramming the PCM first would be that they haven't made the investment in the equipment to do so.

As another avenue, take your RX8 to another Mazda dealer for diagnosis.

beacon2 · November 2003

Thanks for the reply.
They apparently did a re-program well before the intake manifold was changed.

I am actually on hold to service with your advice!
Hope you are right.

bbonnie · November 2003

My 4 day old RX8 was towed because it wouldn't start. They replaced the plugs. All my driving is short distance and am now terrified that the car won't start if I haven't been driving for 5 minutes. Colder winter temperatures do not bode well. Is there someone who has experience with short distance driving? Can I expect to be towed three more times before this becomes a lemon?

qbrozen · November 2003

its a total piece of garbage. get rid of that lemon ASAP! light it on fire and take the insurance money now before you have to risk driving it one more day.

graphicguy · November 2003

bonnie...give us some particulars as to what kind of gasoline you're using and what the conditions were...what's your mileage? Did it crank over? Did you smell gas?

qbrozen....you crack me up!!!!!!!!!;-)

v2pointoh · November 2003

Hi, first post to this forum, but I've been reading it for a while and frequent other RX8 boards.

That's why I know that the "flooding" issue is real, Bonnie. It's not a huge problem, but more than a few people have experienced it.

You just have to follow a procedure to ensure that it doesn't happen. After a cold start, ALWAYS let your car warm up to normal operating temperature before shutting it off. As I'm sure you've noticed, normal operating temperature is when the temp guage needle is just below the halfway mark. Once the car reaches normal operating temp. rev it to 3000 rpm for 10 seconds and then shut it off.

This procedure is outlined in the Quick Tips leaflet you should've gotten when you bought the car. At least I got one.

By the way, there have been a couple times I've forgotten to do this and shut the engine off cold and the car didn't flood. But after hearing of other people having to have their cars towed to the dealer, I follow this procedure religiously now.

If you drive the car for a few miles, it should warm up just fine, unless it's seriously cold out. This is more a situation where move the car from the garage to wash it or something.

It's just a case of people needing to be educated about the quirks of the rotary and getting into some habits that will make owning the car a more trouble-free experience.

User261483 · November 2003

I'm really wanting an RX-8, have been ever since I read the first road test about it. But like the rest of the world, I'm waiting till they get hold of the problems first. If everyone would post their last six digits of the serial number we could tell if they're actually getting the message back at the plant? The inventory of RX-8 is getting high around Austin, TX so I know the prices will be coming down pretty soon. Some dealers have 40 plus cars. Thanks for all the updates.

bbonnie · November 2003

Graphic guy and others: My 4 day old car with 800 miles wouldn't start after sitting in the garage for 2 days. It had premium fuel, cranked over, and the temperature was 50 degrees outside. I live close to work, about a mile, and the car heats to proper temperature when it's this warm. Has anyone had this car over a winter or in cold temperatures? How long does it take to heat up in the winter? I live in Chicago! Am I supposed to drive around for 5 minutes instead of going straight home so the car will start the next day? Does anyone think the dealer will take it back?

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