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Mazda RX-8 Problems and Solutions
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Comments
I have 32K as of today. Only thing I need is new tires!....
On other issues, my 6 speed now has 9K miles and no problems with loss of power or anything else for that matter, it runs great. The cooling fan does run for a long time after shut down tho, at least 10 minutes!
I too have scratched a rear wheel, the low profile tires give you no margin for error, just have to be careful.
When the car is turned off before the engine has reached certain temperature, you are risking engine choke...and the car will NOT start. No crankin the engine in the world..or pumpin the gas paddle will make it work!
First time the problem happened Mazda dealership told me they need to update the computer chip, and the problem should go away.
Today I called to report the same starting problem..and the answer is..well you probably guessed it! They have one more computer update which should make the problem go away!
On the bright side: I am glad I leased my RX instead of finance, and I pay only $ 250.00 a month. Once the lease is up this car is going back to Mazda! nice ride..but too much headache!
This is a "flooding" problem, and has been with the rotary from the beginning. It's main cause is at very low rpm (cranking speed for example) the rotary has very poor sealing of the combustion chambers. This is also why it idles so poorly. It idles great above 1200 rpm or so.
If you add too much fuel it will soak the spark plugs, partially shorting them out. When cold (below operating temp. - probably below about 60 deg. C coolant temp for reference), the engine is in "choke mode" - injecting extra fuel for a "cold" engine. Normally, any extra fuel will be ejected by normal pumping action of the engine, but at low rpm the rotary is poor at this pumping action, so the fuel can build up and short the plugs. Then you're really in trouble. The fuel can't leak "down" into the crankcase in a rotary due to its' design - there isn't a path into the equivalent of the crankcase in a rotary. So the fuel just builds up.
UNFLOODING
The solution Mazda used in 1989 was to give us a way to pump out the fuel without adding more. When you press the accelerator pedal to the floor and hold it there, then crank the engine the injectors will not inject fuel into the engine. The pumping action is still poor and the spark plugs are still partially shorted, so you will have to crank the engine for a while - it will typically take several minutes to clear it out so the plugs can ignite what is left. Crank for 10-15 sec. intervals, with 30 sec. between to allow the starter to cool. DO NOT release the accelerator from the floor during this episode of "unflooding" until it fires.
The RX-8 added further problems that Mazda hadn't seen before. The program changes you mention included adding a delay in adding the additional fuel until the engine is running. The initial program started "choke mode" instantly when the engine fired - they delayed that and that change helped a lot to reduce the flooding customers experienced.
FLOODING AVOIDANCE
To avoid flooding DO NOT TOUCH the accelerator when starting the engine. Make sure you let the engine warm up a bit before you shut it off so it is no longer in "choke mode". Rev. up the engine to around 3-5 thousand rpm, release the accelerator pedal then turn off the key and let the engine coast down - the injectors will stop when you turn off the key and the engine coasting down will pump out any extra fuel.
I am constantly starting up a cold RX-8 and shutting it off when testing certain electronics we build for the car. I have never (knock on wood) flooded it. I have never flooded (knock on wood) my RX-7. I follow the above. It seems to work for me!
I have another point too.In earlier messages there was a disgussion about egine coolant leaking from pin heads from inside the engine.The answer from their dealers was "you will need a new engine or a reconditioned one". Well,i had the same problem but it was caused by electrolysis(i dont know if it is the right word...i am from cyprus and excuse my english )....back to the subject....so,my mechanic changed both the pin heads and put a different material so i would't have the same prob again.He installed also an earthing kit.My car is very healthy....no compression lost...no power loss no nothing....exept of the rough idle which i had been told that is something normal for rotary engines.Thats all.....any suggestion about that noise would be appreciated. :shades:
Is this noise happening when moving or sitting still?
passenger side...
gil in atl...that beep would absolutely wear me out. I hate car noises (rattles, beeps, bongs) that won't stop. What a strange problem too. Sorry to hear the dealer is low life - Mazda backs their cars up with a loaner program and your dealer should be honoring that without you getting ugly on them.
Is that a problem exclusive to the 05's? Never heard of it before and my 04 doesn't do it. Good luck getting it fixed. And, remember, the car is GREAT, you will love it once you get it fixed. Look around and find a dealer who will take good care of you. Mine is great but it's quite a distance from Atlanta to WV!!
A friend recently purchased a new BMW Z4 3.0 in MA. She took it into Inskip BMW in RI for some minor warranty repairs. When she asked about a loaner she was told that Inskip will only provide a "free" loaner:
1 if the car was purchased there, & 2, if she had purchased a premium service package that would include the "free" loaner. Hows that for adding insult to injury on a $43K car!
I had owned a BMW in CA and Long Beach BMW always gave me a free loaner, so I followed up with BMW US and they said that the availability of loaners, free or othewise, was at the discretion of the dealership (Mercedes dealers take note!). Inskip BMW btw also has an Enterprise dealership and they offer a reduced rental fee, obviously Enterprise has come up with a winning business model by putting outlets in dealership service offices.
Having said all that, my Mazda Dealership, Vashon in MA did give me a free loaner when I left my RX8 for a scheduled service, go figure.
I love my 8 very much....it's been a year that i've purchased it and every time i drive it i feel as happy as the first day. :shades:
This is from Mazda, not from the dealership.
I had some warranty work done on my car and I got the rental. Granted, I had to show them a credit card to get it, but that was all. nothin was charged to my card.
Might just be simple adjustment or some new bushings, but still an annoying inconvienance for car this new.
Also,,,,anyone else having the chrome/silver finish on their shift knob flaking off?
Another PIA to deal with....
Yes its fun to drive...lets leave it at that.
Another PIA to deal with.... "
It's not flaking off, it's melting off! it gets so hot after sitting in the sun all day I can hardly touch the darn thing. A serious case of "form over function"
.
1. Asked about the frequency of 8's coming back in with major engine problems. He said they're not getting a lot with real issues, but most of what they see is "driver induced." they have had one converter problem that he felt would have happened regardless of how the car was driven. It was replaced.
2. Asked about the autos. He said they will run fine as long as you pop it over into the "shifting mode" (sorry, I have no idea what mazda calls their auto tranny) and blow the crap out of the engine. Do that as often as you can.
3. He asked me about winter driving. I told him I would probably be putting him away for the salty, snowy roads. He advised me to start it every other day, if not every day, and let it warm up nicely before shutdown. He said even though the car is not being driven, the electronics still pull on the battery and it needs to be charged. He even suggested that I try to get it out and drive it as much as possible.
4. Here's an interesting one I hadn't seen posted here (forgive me if I overlooked someone's knowledgeable post). He said that a big contributor to the flooding issue (aside from the shutdown before warm-up) is letting the battery run down for a 2-3 day period. He said when it doesn't crank good and start quickly, it is more likely to flood. He strongly suggested starting the car EVERY day and actually driving it as much as possible. Even weekend drivers need to be starting the car as much as possible.
And, I have to say, I've been lucky to find a dealer that is knowledgeable about the rotary (even the sales guys are somewhat fanatics about it) and they fix issues when they arise. Hope this helps!!
1. The injectors are too large to properly control idle mixture, so the computer is constantly messing with the idle mixture, trying to get it right - it can't so you get a rough idle. Not much you can do about that. You can actually hear it work, constantly trying to correct the idle mixture.
2. At idle the engine is turning at 750 RPM. At that low speed the apex seals don't work very well - these are the combustion chamber seals at the edges of the rotor. Because they don't seal very well, the chamber pressure varies a bit and you get some blowby into adjacent chambers which affects the mixture and its' burning characteristics. This varies with time, so the combination of the two effects means the mixture is not well controlled and you get an inconsistant burn from chamber to chamber, resulting in a rough idle.
The ignition wires or spark plugs can affect the idle, but they have to be really bad. Neither are working very hard at idle as the combustion pressure is very low - bad plugs show up mostly under hard accelleration when the combustion pressure is high - a fouled or worn plug will not fire under high pressure.
Raise the idle to 1500 RPM or so and the apex seals will begin to work much better. You will get a very nice steady idle - but it will reduce the already low mileage even further. Try it when sitting in the car - use the accellerator pedal to raise the idle and see how much it improves vs RPM. I recommend living with the poor idle, because it causes less complaints than poorer mileage would. My guess is that was also Mazda's compromise reasoning.
Wish you were my mechanic.......!!!
BTW - I'm willing to put up with this minor inconvenience because the RX-8 is just a hoot to drive. Here's to triple digits on the speedo!!!
I'll drink to the last comment, I just dont get this coking/fouling up issue, how can you not peg the tach every day!
I would keep in mind the off-the-shelf pipe insulation material is not meant for the temperatures seen around the dipstick. I wouldn't go so far as to predict a fire but it would most likely melt, make a mess, and not accomplish what you are trying to do.
I have a portable Garmin Street Pilot III that is about 3 years old (I didnt get the Mazda Nav option because of that). I was getting concerned about the rapidly aging data base so contacted Garmin last week about an upgrade. I dont know who supplies the Mazda system, but if it is Garmin there will be updated software available later this year, but they wouldnt tell me when.
I dont know about other systems but Garmin uses the term Points Of Interest (POI) in its set up so I thought it might be the same one.
Jim
2 days ago I leave work and go to my car. Now my car is parked in the basement parking garage, in a bay with a fire hose at the end of it. The fire hose is dripping water everywhere, I figure it's leaking, think nothing of it. I get home, and to my horror realize the ENTIRE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE CAR is covered in scratches, and some of them are bad ones. Turns out a similar complaint was lodged by a coworker last week, some fool is using the fire hose (illegally) to wash cars or something and obviously just raked the thing over my car without any thought :mad: I mean this guy got everything on the right-hand (driver for me) side...front and rear quarterpanels, front and rear doors, even the freaking roof has a small one! I'm hoping that most of them didn't pierce the clearcoat and can be buffed out, but one or two (on the strip between the doors and roof...oh wait, that's all one big panel connected to the quarterpanels, and the biggest on the car...yay!) are deep enough to fit my fingernail.
Anyway, sorry for the lengthy rant. Any suggestions on how to approach this? I'm a little worried about buffing since I've never had any scratches of note on my cars before, so I've never done this. Doesn't it wear down the clearcoat? Any tips or whatever would be awesome!
Now I'm off to find the (expletive deleted) who did this so I can whup his a** and get my money.
Suggestions pls???????
One warning. Anyone with cars that are like this should keep their hands out of the fan shroud as the fan can come on at ANY time - and it will take fingers off quite easily!
If you have to work in there disconnect the battery -ve terminal first.
My old Fiat X1/9 used to do this too - folks thought it was strange since it looked futuristic (at the time) and few cars on the road had electric fans.
Ever notice on the fan shrouds of most modern cars it has a warning that the "fan may start at any time" ? Yep, that is what it is doing. No need to worry, just stop and walk away and let the run as needed.
Dennis
Just kidding :-)
Dennis
Last week took to dealership to have it diagnosed but it was a cool morning (low 60s) and even an hour of hard driving wouldn't replicate the problem. I promised to return on a warmer day when it was actually happening.
During a 45 minute drive this morning with temps in high 80s, the engine started its antics w/in 5 minutes and persisted the whole time. Could barely get up slight road inclines with engine clattering and wheezing away. I turned around and drove 45 min back to a dealership, several times considering putting on hazard lights...it was that bad and I couldn't get out of my own way. Completely bogging down.
I pulled into dealership, turned it off for 5 min, found a service tech who took it out for a 10 min drive. I was joking with the other staff that someone was going to have to go pick him up on the side of the road any minute. Then he comes back, says I should come with him, which I do. As we're pulling out of the lot he says there's nothing wrong...he'd just had it up to 80 and it ran great. We'll see I say.
So off we go...and the thing runs like a top! With or without AC. It was flawless. Unbelievable. I was devasted. He later ran some diagnostics and said all codes checked out fine. They're keeping it over the weekend and I will go Monday afternoon to drive it myself and see if it will act up. I shouldn't have shut it off and won't next time. But truly I can't get to the end of my own street w/out it going into crapout mode, and now I'll get another service checkout form to add to my other dozen saying/showing there's nothing wrong with the car. If no one hears the tree fall in the forest...did it really? I have no case.
Is ANYONE experiencing similar issues? Does anyone have thoughts on how to proceed? It's an early gen car, 6 sp, 25k miles. I can't sell it or trade it like this...I'm stuck! Thanks for any direction.
Thanx - Cherry
The car is under warranty, so there is always the dealer - stop in and ask them to check it.
Also auto parts places like AutoZone, Advance auto parts, etc will read the code from the OBDII computer for you for free. If you do go to one of these places, be sure to remind them that your Mazda uses the newer CAN protocol so they will use a CAN compatible reader to look at the code(s).
You can also pick up an inexpensive reader for yourself. If you have several new cars this might be a cheap investment - then when you get a check engine light you can hook it up and read the code, then decide what you need to do.
If you have a loose gas cap can cause a code on a new car, and a lot of dealers will charge you if you go in for a service visit and this is the problem.
Another option is to just wait - if this was a single fault as you start the car and no more faults occur then the code will roll out of the active buffer and the light will go out. If it does not, then you have an ongoing problem.
Dennis
Normally things get better with each flash. Folks report better
driveability, better fuel mileage, etc. I read in one they changed the AC
compressor to NOT kick off if you rev'd above 5k.
No way to tell what you have without a CAN reading tool - or asking the
dealer to check it.
The 8 has had a lot of flashes and seems to have a very sophisticated and versatile computer. A lot of folks say don't go in for the new flash until you have a symptom, others want to wait until the new "code" has been out for a while. I asked the dealer to flash mine to the latest load before I picked up the car. I have no idea if they did or not, but it seems to drive fine. A lot of dealers will require a symptom to get the flash under warranty. I think "poor mileage" or "hard to start" should be good enough.
Dennis
@#*** indicator....nothing...stays at "c"............ :confuse: