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Lexus ES 300/ES 330 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • beardiebeardie Member Posts: 44
    Sanjay....
    I'm looking at my lease now, so I can tell you exact facts. 1) Yes, I did negotiate initially by e-mail to all the dealers. They have sales people who deal only with internet sales.When I decided to use the dealer, I spoke to them on the phone. I never went to the dealership until delivery. 2) 2005 ES330...MSRP $35,709. 36mo. lease, 15K per year. $417 per month incl. everything except tax and MV fees. My tax is 8.75% =$1313.00 ($417x36x8.75). I gave them the tax + $24 MV fees. There is no disposition fee, and any down payment is in the monthly.I also had to give them the first months payment ($417), at delivery. That's it. 3) Just be sure to get it in writing, and have it approved by a manager. The selling salesperson is not the one who should sign the contract. Get an authorized manager to sign it. They can then fax or send it to you to look over. If I didn't have that approved contract, I would not have gotten the car! They just need to know you're on top of it! Good luck....let me know how it goes.
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Others will no doubt chime in here but it appears you should be able to get that car for around 32k---roughly 90% of sticker.
  • assameseassamese Member Posts: 15
    These are the numbers from RayCatena, what do you guys think ?
    ---------------------------------
    A lease on a 06 ES 330 fully loaded with all the equipment you indicated and navagation without mark levinson, 36 months,12000 miles, $489.71 a month for Decmember
    The inception fees are as follows, Bank Fee $600, 1st payment $489, motor vehicle's $175.50 and documation fee with tire tax $206.50, total down $1471, there is no disposition fee with Lexus
    ---------------------------------
    Thanks in advance. Sanjay
  • gbjerkegbjerke Member Posts: 158
    Interesting thoughts on the TL.
    That is the car I wanted in the fall of '04 but it was my wifes car and I let her make the decision. (I drive a Vette Z06 so it was her choice). We took a TL for a day and I was all over it. It is drop dead georgeous and I loved the handling aspect...and the incredible sound system. Wife rode and then drove it. "Too noisy; rides rough." She had previously driven the ES and was hooked on the quiet and comfy ride.
    While priced closly, they are really different cars. Sportiness of the TL vs. the luxury (read quiet and soft ride) of the ES.
    We bought the '05 ES...she is very happy, and I won't complain a bit. Great cruising car for long trips and that is when I get to drive it.
    She had very legit complaints on the TL. Passenger seat is only 4 way power. She and I both could not get a "comfortable" setting.
    Cup holders--they are too deep and it was difficult to get a can out unless you put your finger into the can opening. A styrofoam cup literally disappears into it. ALso, as I recall, you could not get to the rear cup holder without raising the armrest! Minor items for sure, but just a bit annoying.
  • california4california4 Member Posts: 3
    Since we are being honest, my wife also selected the Lexus.
    She is more traditional and likes the standard sedan look. Also, comming off of an Accord she was seduced by the luxury. I have to admit, I like sporty. I drive an SLK. But, when I get in the Lexus, I feel... pampered.
  • g17g17 Member Posts: 45
    Most importantly...what is the price they are selling the car at? Whats the Money Factor?
  • x021627x021627 Member Posts: 152
    i was trying to decide between the lexus es 330 and acura tl. TL was nice, but was for the luxury I was looking for (was downsizing from a bmw 530) I decided to go with the lexus. Nice ride, nice stereo and comfy on long distances. I haven't regretted the decision. I test drove both extensively.
  • soanesoane Member Posts: 3
    My parents told me today they decided to buy an "05 ES 330 Demo car with 5,000 miles from a dealer for $33K. Haven't picked the color, they claim they have 3 to choose from.
    This price seems high to me for a Demo '05 in december of '06 with a redesign coming out next spring. What do you think? They are paying asking price but think it's a good deal. It seems people are paying near the same price for brand new '06s. Please inform me if and how they can do better.

    also I read of Tranny problems, steering problems and short tire life. Is any of that true and pertinent to negotiations.

    Any help/insight is greatly appreciated.

    Thank You Very Much
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Is the price OTD (out of the door) or is tax,title,destination not included in the price. Is the car fully loaded or a base version ? Either way I think 33K is a tad high for basically an used car. My aunt is also interested in the ES330. She just got a quote from Ray Catena Lexus for a brand new 06 model for 32.7K OTD price. I think you can definitely do better.
  • soanesoane Member Posts: 3
    Thnaks for the reply.
    BTW-I meant to say "December '05"

    It's $33,378 selling price and NOT OTD. Not sure about options-how loaded or not.
    I really think they can do better-but they are not eager to haggle.

    Thanks for the info.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Most posters get brand new 2005 cars (in southern california) for right around 89-91% MSRP without negotiation.

    Since it is a demo, try and get 86-87% MSRP and then you have yourself a pretty good deal. Even 88% is a pretty good deal. 89-91% MSRP has been a normal purchase price for the past couple of years.

    I don't think you can know whether you are getting a good deal or not if you don't know or list the MSRP of your car. Using the MSRP is a good strategy and allows you to get around knowing and listing all of the options on your vehicle.

    To calculate 87% MSRP, if you are not good at math, just multiply your MSRP by .87 to come up with your desired purchase price.
  • soanesoane Member Posts: 3
    You're right-We need more info and I posted here prematurely.
    They have asked the dealer to fax copies of the window stickers which will have MSRP and all options etc.

    They believe the MSRP was $36,xxx -so a high 80's percentile of that should be in the 31,500 to 32,000 range I would think.
    At least I have them really thinking the purchase through instead of just plunging.

    Thanks a lot for your input.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey newcarbuyer3. You want to roll $10,000 in negative equity from your current lease into a new one?!?! If it will cost that much to break your current lease, you are better off waiting until its scheduled end to get a new vehicle. You're right, the lease money factor that you were quoted is terrible. It's much higher than Lexus' current buy rate money factor of .00123 for this car. If I was in your situation, I'd wait to get a new vehicle. If I absolutely couldn't wait, I'd at least make sure that my monthly payment was being calculated using the buy rate money factor.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Congratulations on your new car, JTbooze. Any Lexus for under invoice is a good deal. Thanks for taking the time to stop back and let us all know how everything turned out. Enjoy!

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Sanjay. In order to estimate what your lease payment should be like on this car, I need you to provide me with its full MSRP and selling price. Remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. You may be able to get an idea of how much you will have to pay for an ES right now by visiting the following discussion: "Lexus ES 300/ES 330: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

    Car_man
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  • jschrockjschrock Member Posts: 1
    Hurstian, I am interested in purchasing the same car you did. I also live in Texas. What city and dealership did you purchase it from. How did you get your intial price out there? Did you low ball and then meet at the 30668? Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks Jason
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    hurstian reported that he purchased his vehicle in Dallas, where there are two dealers: Sewell, and Park Place.

    Note that I am beginning to notice when posted deals are likely to be exaggerated. The first clue is a low quote. In this case, hurstian said he received 87% MSRP, which is rare anywhere and particularly rare in Texas.

    An even more important clue is they resist giving the name of their dealer and tend to disappear from the board when pressed for their dealer's name.

    I guess that anomnymity is not enough for the truth to take precedence over ego.

    Of course, if hurstian reappears on the board and answers your question, then I apologize and stand corrected!!
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Recall that hurstian bought a 2005 (I think). Edmund's TMV runs significantly higher for a 2006.

    My boyfriend was able to get a better deal from Sewell than from Park Place last year, but each deal is different.

    If I were you, I'd try both dealers to see if either would give a deal of 90-91% MSRP, which is a reasonable quote based on history of posters on this board.

    Walk out on deals greater than 91% for a 2006. If both dealers are sticking to a high % MSRP, then I guess we need to accept that 2006s truly are going for more than 2005s were going for.

    Here are some Texas deals for you:

    professordjf, 2004 ES330, 08/04, Dallas (Sewell Lexus), $37,424, $34,000, 90.8% MSRP.

    jhwk, 2005 ES330, 964, 8/1/05, Plano Texas(Park Place Lexus), $34,800, $31,445. 90.3% MSRP

    anonapersona, 2005 ES330, 995, 8/21/05, Houston Texas southside of town, purchase, $37919, $33300, 88.9% MSRP

    tamu91, 2005 ES330, 1015, 9/4/05, Houston, Tx (Westside Lexus), purchase, $34829, $31400, 90.1% MSRP
  • abc321abc321 Member Posts: 3
    Educated here with everyone's experience and information.

    Started with ES330, end up a 2006 LS430 (ML, SmartKey, ...). 87.9% MSRP in LA Area.

    Thanks!
  • hurstianhurstian Member Posts: 10
    LOL. I bought it from Park Place Lexus of Grapevine. I was quoted that price over phone by salesman. It is ES330 2006 model with MSRP of 35,xxx. I also had a trade in. If the deal is too good to be true, maybe they made it up by lower the trade-in price:)
  • california4california4 Member Posts: 3
    It depends on what options are included. I suggest they ask the bank what the blue book is. I believe they fixed the transmission issues in 2005.

    Ultimately, it's worth what you want to pay. I have found that if you are willing to walk, you can get your price.

    I'd tell him you are leaning towards the Acura TL because it is new, new body, and loaded for the same price as the used Lexus. Also, the ratings are high. Then see what the price is. I imagine you should get it for $31000 or so. But, 5000 miles is not that much.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    For jschrock's benefit, here is hurstian's deal:

    hurstian, 2006 ES330, 1187, 11/08/2005, Dallas Area (Park Place Lexus), purchase, $35234, $30668, 87% MSRP

    The fact that you wrote in with your dealer's name speaks volumes that your deal is authentic.

    Sorry if I made an implied hit on your integrity and I won't do it again, since my actions do not encourage honest reporting by other posters.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    All:

    The gap between what Edmund's posters are quoting for 2006s vs Edmund's TMV is huge! Edmund's posters are getting their cars for about 87-89% MSRP while Edmund's TMV (based on actual sales numbers) says 97%-98% MSRP!

    This same discrepancy does not exist for 2005s. Posters report similar numbers for 2005s as Edmunds TMV quotes.
    This could be due to a number of factors. If Edmund's posters are honest with their quotes, then it means that posters are getting HUGE discounts from what other purchasers are paying.

    If the Edmund's posters are honestly posting their quotes, then I have no idea why the discrepency between TMV and posters' quotes would be as it is.

    Anyone out there have any idea?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Ok, I'll break down and do it. Provide quotes, even with imcomplete data. I want the posters to see what other posters are saying they are paying lately for a vehicle:

    =========================

    que2, 2005 ES330, 1059, 3/31/05, Little Falls, New Jersey (Tri-County Lexus) $35909, $31,800, 88.6% MSRP

    bayviewe, 2005 ES330, 1112, 10/24/05, Schaumburg,Ill (Woodfield Lexus), $37909, $32,500, 85.7% MSRP.

    deerblue, 2006 ES330, 1119, 10/24/05, So Cal (Longo Lexus),$39,694, $34,500, 86.9% MSRP.

    dshahs, 2005 ES330, 1117, 10/25/2005, Massachusetts (Lexus of Watertown) $38393, $34,500, 89.8% MSRP

    bhavinpa, 2006 ES330, 1147/1149, 10/31/2005, So. Cal (Longo Lexus, El Monte, Ca.), $37524, $33,200, 88.4% MSRP

    hurstian, 2006 ES330, 1187, 11/08/2005, Dallas Area (Park Place Lexus), purchase, $35234, $30668, 87% MSRP

    ============================

    The following quotes are missing some info and are not as verifiable as the preceding ones:

    jpdeg, 2006 ES330, 1237, ????, ????, purchase, $35700, $33734, 92.3% MSRP

    california4, 2006 ES330, 1238, 12/03/2005, ????(????), purchase, $37595, $34000, 90.4% MSRP

    ficars, 2006 ES330, 1222, 11/24/2005, ???? (????), purchase, $35000, $31000, 88.5% MSRP
  • jpdegjpdeg Member Posts: 7
    Hi, just saw your post and question marks, so I'll fill-in/update.

    I received my quote on 12/3/06 from Lexus of New Orleans. Our salesman claimed he may have been able to knock off another couple hundred.

    That d/ship is our only one. I emailed the dealership in Baton Rouge, 45 miles away. I had to email twice, and eventually had to call the internet manager to get a price. He said that I should check the local dealership. I said I did, would he like to give me a quote and take my business from them. He said he could do $1400 off of MSRP.

    I told both salesmen that I would pay 90% of MSRP based on what I have been reading on Edmunds forums. One said that these price quotes aren't real, but are really "Christmas wishlist prices."

    I still haven't made a purchase. Neither place would go lower, and I feel like the car is/may be underpowered, but the price just feels to high for me especially considering the much hyped December to Remember.

    So, I'm still sort of looking. I can't decide. I'm considering a MB C230, BMW 325, or Saab 9-5. I really can't decide, and nothing has really grabbed my attention and desire, other than the Infiniti M35 (too expensive). I may just wait a while longer for the M.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Your deal is lining up with Edmund's TMV (96% MSRP), which is not lining up with the quotes on this thread, sad to say. I appreciate your input, since I believe you have a realistic, honest deal. After all, Edmund's TMV is based on real sales data, as opposed to the data provided by posters.

    Your salesman is correct in saying that the Edmund's quotes are not real. They are anonymous and can't be verified, but if the dealership is provided, at least there is some accountability.

    Don't know why posters would exaggerate their deals, but the recent deal quotes are certainly not matching Edmund's TMV.

    Perhaps when you get ready for a purchase, the price will come down or you will like the new body style better.

    I suspect that the gas price rise has made ES330s more desirable when compared with RX300s than they have been in the past. Maybe there is a shortage of 2006 ES330s.
  • jpdegjpdeg Member Posts: 7
    "Maybe there is a shortage of 2006 ES330s"

    That is a distinct possibility. In fact, one of the salesman told me that they are selling them as fast as they can produce them. I just didn't necessarily believe him. Also, when I first started looking in November, the dealership lot was FULL of cars, mainly ES's. When I went back in the beginning of December, the lot was basically empty.
  • gvr4wdgvr4wd Member Posts: 23
    No, I was just quoted $32.5K after submitting from Lexus website.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    That is exactly what my cousin paid for his ES. NO NAVI, MARK LEVINSON, VAS.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    You can kind of tell from the MSRP whether the vehicle has NAV/ML. Vehicles under about 35-36K MSRP generally do not include ML or NAV.

    32K MSRP is a very basic vehicle.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    This indicates how dynamic the situaton can be.
    If I needed a car in a hurry, at this point, I would look at this website and use the price quotes in it as a negotation tactic to give me confidence when I walk into a dealer.

    If I tried several dealers or internet quotes and none were "biting" at my offer, I'd check out Edmund's TMV to see what a realistic price might be. (The difficulty with using TMV is that you have to enter ALL the vehicles options to get a number, and that can be difficult to do.)

    Sorry if your negotiation tactic left you with less choice in vehicles. But it just shows that what worked yesterday or a month ago might not work today. In your case, you needed to move more quickly than posters have had to do in the past in order to maintain your choices. However, with Toyota, I have noticed that choices disappear fast.

    And, maybe you will have the option of picking up a 2007.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Another way to find out what the current situation for a particular vehicle is is to use Sam's Club car buying service.

    When I first purchased my car, the Sam's Club rep told me that Toyota reduced production in 2001/2002 due to the September 11 attack. At the time I purchased my car (March 2002), ES 300s were going for 94-95% MSRP because there was a shortage, and the Sam's Club rep told me I was unlikely to have much luck getting a really low price.

    The situation changed later, however, and until now, cars have been going for about 90% MSRP.

    Now it looks like there may be a scarcity again, if one believes Edmund's TMV.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Thanks for all the good info. Do you have any idea what the cut-off date is for the manufacture of 2006 ES330s?
    Bye the way, what kind of mpg are you getting on your 2002 ES300?
  • markeastlandmarkeastland Member Posts: 1
    I thought this was a big sales event but was told by the Austin salesman it simply means 2K off MSRP. We looked at an es330 with msrp around 35,500 w/ everything except navigation, according to salesman. 2K off doesn't seem like a great deal, but it is a very nice ride. We also looked at the Mercedes c230 and bmw 235i, but my wife liked the es over the more powerful 235i and the weak c230, oh and a tiny volvo s40. Shouldn't I be able to get more off msrp? They seemed to have a lot of them.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    It is hard to really state the gas mileage I get. It varies from about 16-19 mpg in town and 26-28 mpg on the freeway.

    Here is what I have observed however:

    1. One pays a very high mpg price for accelerating.
    2. One pays a very high mpg price for driving uphill. If one takes a two-way trip that is hilly, the lower mpg for the downhill part will not compensate for the higher mpg. of the uphill part. (A two-way trip theorectically equalizes the uphill/downhill portions there and back)
    3. One pays a very high mpg price for stopping at fast food prices, which requires lots of acceleration/ stop and go.

    As such it is really hard to tell whether the basic vehicle is providing good or bad gas mileage.

    The only way that two drivers can get good comparison numbers is if they both live in a flat region, and they both have the same amount of stop and go when they drive in town.
  • x021627x021627 Member Posts: 152
    I couldn't have said it better regading mileage. I drive up a hill on the way to work and downhill on the way home. I notice the mpg drops precipitiously on the way up. Too fast starts cause the same thing. Doesn't go back up as quickly as it goes down. What I have noticed, however is that using 89 octane gas has made a significant difference.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I have always used high octane gas, probably because my 2002 user manual says to do so. Sounds like the later manuals say that regular is preferred, but my manual says that high octane is preferred. I have tried regular gas a couple of times, but I did not think I liked the performance as well. Of course, it could be all in my mind......
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Today I drove from Bakersfield, Ca. to Ridgecrest, Ca. The trip is 101 miles. I tracked my gas mileage on the way home only (all freeway miles).

    I divided the trip in two.

    For the first half of the trip, I averaged 20.3 mpg, despite the fact that it was all on the freeway: no stop and go. There is a steep grade between Bakersfield and Tehachapi, which explains the low gas mileage.

    For the second half of the trip I averaged 29 mpg, because there were more downill miles on the second part of the trip.

    The mpg for the entire trip was 24.5 mpg, all on freeways.
  • mldj98mldj98 Member Posts: 378
    I just have a quick question for anyone that may have a spare moment to respond....
    I am thinking about buying a 06 ES330 and was wondering what the overall driving experiences people have had with this car....I have read some of the consumer reviews.....and most seem positive.....but my question would be as such...
    Does the car have enough power to let's say merge on the highway?...pass on the highway? (quickly when the need arises).....does it do well while driving in snow country? (i.e. midwest)...and just the overall ride.....is there any rattles in the interior?....allot of road noise?.....is it the true luxury experience? We don't need a sports car that can go from 0-60 in 4 seconds....and we don't really want a car that is marketed towards the retirement age people (please, no disrespect intended to anyone).....the ES330 is in our price range and seems like it may fit the bill....but by asking current owners we can get a feel of what everyones thinks......now we know in the end it is our decision....and it is either you like it or you don't....but any input would be much appreciated.....
    Thanks in advance......
  • pilot130pilot130 Member Posts: 319
    We don't own one but had the opportunity to use my brother in law's 06 ES330 for a three week period earlier this month (He was on an extended vacation trip and left it with us). It's an "all dressed" model with every conceivable option.
    Our experience was extremely positive. We found nothing of any concern and the overall driving experience was excellent for both city and highway conditions. the only thing we didn't use was the nav system so we cannot comment there.(didn't really need it)
    It rode well; handled well; was very quiet with no rattles or noticeable wind or road noise; accelleration was more than adequate; and it seemed not to notice the occasional time when there were 4 heavy duty adults aboard.
    It handled fine in the two really big snowfalls we've had so far this year; there seems to be more than adequate passing response on the highway; and we were pleasantly surprised at the very good fuel economy of this vehicle.
    Overall it was a very pleasant automobile to drive in--as good as any we've experienced. There was no doubt this is a luxury vehicle and we wouldn't hesitate to own one.
    One note of caution. Your inquiry will no doubt elicit a few negatives.
    One of those may talk to the hesitation issue which has been kicked around to a degree by some folks.
    There seems to be a concerted effort by a few outspoken individuals to have it declared a widespread epidemic, a serious safety hazard, severe when it occurs, affects many models of Lexus and Toyota, etc--generally a very damning criticism of this automaker.
    We would suggest caution in letting any such condemnations influence a purchase decision. Take one for a long test drive and decide for yourself.
    We didn't notice anything of the sort. In our opinion, the condemnations have been very much overplayed, and almost seem deliberate.
  • mldj98mldj98 Member Posts: 378
    Thanks for the much needed reply.....I'm glad you had a great experience.....we are still on the fence about buying one....but your info is greatly appreciated!
    Thanks again!
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I would not underplay the transmission issue, if I were you. Some owners have sold their vehicles at a loss because the transmission issue bothered them so much.

    It may not bother you, but then again it may. Make sure you can repeat the problem on a road test if possible, to make sure that you can accept the problem.

    Note that I am one of the owners who would purchase the car again anyway if I had it to do over, but some would not.
  • buff8156buff8156 Member Posts: 2
    Lexus Dealer in San Francisco Bay Area (not the cheapest by any stretch)
    Lexus ES330 2006 w/Nav/ML Audio
    List 39,794
    Purchase Price 34,133
    85.8% MSRP
    they said it was $1K below their invoice
  • ed1234ed1234 Member Posts: 5
    Hi,

    I found a one owner, 96 ES300 with 200K miles. Is it still a reliable car?

    Somebody said for the luxury car with that high miles, I will have to pay ton of money to keep it running. Other said Lexus can run to 300k miles easily.

    Thanks for your input.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Most cars of any make... are just about used up by the time they hit 200K miles...

    Although Toyota makes great cars that are generally very reliable, any 200K mile car is a crap-shoot..

    Unless the car is selling for $1500 or less, it isn't worth considering..

    regards,
    kyfdx
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  • ed1234ed1234 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for your quickly reply, kyfdx!

    I have another question. When buying a used car, you choose a newer one with high miles or an older one with less miles?

    Kbb, nada,... gives the 80,000 mile 98 ES300 the same price with the 150,000 mile 2000 ES300.

    Thanks,
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Between those two examples, the 80K mile car is a no-brainer choice...

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  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    My cousin bought his 06 ES330 from Ray Catena Lexus in Larchmont, NY. The OTD price came to about 33.4K. The price seems reasonble although it looks some people got better deal than that.
  • about2buyabout2buy Member Posts: 12
    I have a 2005 ES-330 which is essentially the identical car to the 2006. There has been some criticism of the hesitation problem on these boards over the past year. I did experience the problem when the car was brand new and asked the dealer about it. I was told to "drive the car harder" as the computer which controls the transmission had to "learn" my driving style. While I was skeptical I did just that and the problem quickly disappeared. I now have over 20,000 miles on the car and haven't had a single problem with the car. The car has no squeaks or rattles, has plenty of power for the highway and handles very well. Owned a Lexus LS before and while this car isn't as quiet as the LS it is well below the noise level I think you'll find in anything comparable. From a fit and finish standpoint I have yet to see another brand of car which matches the quality of the Lexus products.

    Gas mileage, as with any car, varies with where it's driven and how it's driven. On purely highway drives where the speed limit is 55-65 I have gotten as high as 29MPG. Driving the car for everyday type driving I would say it's more in the 20MPG-22MPG range.

    Snow wise the car is probably as good as any front wheel drive vehicle. The electronic traction control kicks in very quickly and you can feel it reduce the power to the wheels as soon as it senses a wheel slipping. The ABS works fine..keeps the car straight when you apply the brakes in a packed snow situation. I have the regular all season tires that came with car but you may want to install a winter tire if you are in a heavy snow belt.

    One complaint, albeit a minor one, is that I have the nav system which can be operated by "voice command". What I have found (and I hear it's a common problem in other brands with similar systems too) is that if the car is being driven the system tends to misunderstand some of the commands. Apparently this is caused by the background noises. Again, not a big problem as anything you would use a voice command for you can enter by pushing a button, more of an annoyance.

    Overall, this is our third Lexus product (the LS and a 2002 ES before this one) and I'd be hard pressed to switch brands for my next car.

    Hope this helps with your decision.
  • az2004az2004 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for all the good information. Has anyone just recently purchased an ES330 in Phx area? What was your purchase price and recommended dealer? Thanks.
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