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Nissan 350Z Problems and Solutions



  • Hi there, I have a 350z 'o3 and have had to replace brakes at 15k and now again at 31k. Have you had to replace any brakes since you've owned yours.
  • nolamannolaman Posts: 3
    Sorry to say but I am not very pleased with my 2003 350Z.
    My issues are as follows:
    1. The interior fit and finish is poor. A lot of rattles in the dashboard and door. It reminds me of an American car, It kills me to say things about American products but that's been my experience. Also,I like the speedometer in the middle not the tach. I use the speedometer a lot more than the tach. Seats are nice, good support.
    2. Road noise. It is loud, very loud. When those z-rated tires get worn it is really loud.
    3. Power window problems. The window powers partially down by itself. It goes to the top then goes down about one third. Tired of bringing it back.
    The car was cheap and that's what I got.
    Good luck,
  • whatthe2whatthe2 Posts: 1
    The same thing happened to my passenger side window on my 2001 pathfinder. Dealer was of no help. I'm done with nissan for now.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    i responded to your post on the Meet the Members board, so I won't repeat here.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    Like the mod said, forums about anything which is about problems is going to not make for any use Statistic data on that item cause most of what you will get are problem reports.

    I pop in occasionally to what things folks are reporting as maybe something to watch for but if you based a buying decision on a problem report forum, you would never buy anything.

    I have a 2005 Z with nothing but praise for it.

    BTW, I considered a Boxster also but 1) it is slower and 2)Porches are NOT dependable cars.

    Cool yes but not known for being super dependable.

    I know it sounds cliched, but your best dependabiliy comes from the Japanese cars.

    So, if you want a Nissan 350Z buy it and don't worrry about it.

    It won't be as dependable as,an Acura,for example but I would put it up against a Honda for dependability.
  • Today I took my 2004 350Z Roadster to a Nissan dealership in Burlington, WA. for a free 100 point inspection. The inspection went really well except for the fact that all my tires on my car were worn out. The front tires are really really bad. The back ones are pretty bad too. So the service department told me that tires would run me $300+ a piece. My first question is this a good price for tires?
    I eventually found out that my front tires were covered under my warranty so nissan is going to put brand new tires on my car for free.
    The problem is that they had already put other new tires on my car and by the time we found out that they were covered under warranty the service department was closed. Basically the service department told me "You can't drive your car home today"! I was fine with this because I was expecting them to give me a loaner care for the a few days because they said that they couldn't get the tires in until Tues. Well turns out they didn't want to give me a loaner car and made me go to Enterprise and rent a car for $30.00 a day. Does anyone know if Nissan has to give me a car in this situation? Please let me know because if they do I am going to get them to reimburse me for the rental and they are going to give me a loaner. Thank you for your help.

    Colin Corbin
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    $300 a piece for tires is insane.
    check out or

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    $300 a piece does not stike me as being totally out of place depending upon what they are putting on.

    I had the POS Potenza's taken off and replaced with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires a month aftr I bought my 2005 Z and I think these are one of the most expensize you can buy.

    Tirerack has them and charges $198 for them but then you have to account for shipping/mounting/balancing/disposal fees.

    To give you a real world idea of what to expect for 17" wheels on a Z,

    [B]I got all 4 of these Pilot Sport A/S "on the road" from Mr. Tire for $1048.54 with lifetime balance. Obviously, rotation is N/A.[/B

    That does come to $262 per tire.

    BY the time I would have spent the $40 to $50 per tire to have them mounted,etc. from Tirerack, they still would have come to around $240 to $250 per tire.

    Plus, you have bigger wheels so the price would have been MORE than $300/tire "on the road"

    You did not say what they were putting on your car. If it was the stock Potenza's DON't.
    Make them put on something good like the Pilot Sport's (Non A/S if you are not worried about the rain).

    IN case you are wondering why I did not go the Tirerack route, by spending a few extra bucks at Mr. Tire for the Z, I got a really good deal on top of the line Michelin tires for my Chevy Colorado Truck so I came out ahead.
    Well, broke but ahead of tirerack pricing.

    As far as your other question, Nissan does not have to do anything. There is nothing in any of their ales contract that talks about loaners and such.
    Infinity YES because that is part of their sales agreement but not Nissan. You are on your own.

    Now a good Nisan dealer should do something for you though.
    Mine will shuttle me back and forth to my house. I bet If I did not have that second Vehicle I mentioned above, my dealer WOULD give me a loaner.

    Please let us know what tires thay are going to do before you do anything.
    Go to and get some opinions on tires that fit your driving style.

    I have my eye on sone R coumpund ties on their own wheels s that would be an amazing hyandling setup.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    BY the time I would have spent the $40 to $50 per tire to have them mounted,etc. from Tirerack, they still would have come to around $240 to $250 per tire.

    The last set I bought from tirerack cost me $80 total to have them mounted, balanced, new stems, etc.

    So, even if I go with the 18" Pilot Sports on tirerack, the total, including shipping, is $980. Add the $80 ... let's go nuts and say $100 ... for a grand total of $1080. When you think that's $260 a tire, it doesn't seem like great savings over the $300, but when you think that's $160 total, that's quite a bit, in my book.

    Personally, i'd probably opt for the BF gforce tires and save an additional $280 for a total savings of $440! With that much left over, you could get a whole new set of tires for your beater, to boot.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    I stand corrected on the price to mount/balance/etc.

    Not to lose track of what the poster was asking when he asked if $300/tire was high, it is all in one's perspective.

    Not sure what the original psoter thought tires would cost but the $260 number tossed about is the norm for good tires for this car so you are not all that far from $300/tire.
    Without knowing what tires they are putting on though, this disscussion is kind of moot. For all we know, they could be the $90/tire Mastercraft economy tires:)

    Gbrozen said something that caught my attention.
    Youe aid "Personally, i'd probably opt for the BF gforce tires and save an additional $280 for a total savings of $440! With that much left over, you could get a whole new set of tires for your beater, to boot."

    While I don't have beaters lying around, your comment about the BF Gforce caught my attention.

    I have my sites on the g-Force T/A KD series but Tirerack does not have any BF Goodrich tires for my model.

    I then went to BF Goodrich's main page and entered the car info to see what tires are avavilable and I get this when I startd with the rears:

    "Your vehicle's original equipment tire size: 235/50R17 96W

    We're sorry. There are no BFGoodrich® original equipment tire matches for your vehicle. But we did find Michelin® tire sizes that fit your vehicle's original equipment tire size and wheels."

    What Tires were you thinking of?

    I am sorry to take this thread so OT but you sound like someone who has worthwhile opinions.

    Here's the scoop,
    GM is hurting so bad that I was able to find a 2005 loaded Colorado Crew LS trim with 4WD and Tow package for my boat on a dealer's inventory and got a killer deal on it.

    I decided that since this Truck has a great highway ride as well as other things (this one you can drink coffee in on the highway without spilling it unlike the Z) that I would use this as my daily commuter vehicle. Same gas mileage but it uses Regular.
    Snow won't be an issue with the Z either cause of the 4WD on the truck so the Z will stay home.

    So now I drive the Z only when the weather is perfect.

    So, that opens up a whole different ball game where I can go wild with tires and get the best handling street legal tires I want.

    The BF goodrich looks like the one's I want BUT they don't make my size.

    So, to repeat myselg, what BF goodrish tirrs were you thinking of when you made that post?

    In case anyone is interested, here is a link to a test that C&D did on the the high end tires.Very surprising results:

    Again, sorry for highjacking this thread but I sure could use some help in the tire department on my Z.
    Mine is the 2005 Enthusiast model and has 17" wheels.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    sorry, zz, but i was looking at tires for the 18" wheels that come with the 6-speed Touring (the model I had before I traded it in).

    BUT, you might want to take a gander at those Goodyear Eagle F1s that finished first place in the C&D article you linked. Very favorable survey results on tirerack, too. PLUS they are only about $660 for a full set of 17" for the Z.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • jabonetejabonete Posts: 2
    sup, i just bought a 06 350 enthusiast. i was talking to a friend of mine who works in a car shop and he said that when they changed the oil on a Z, the guy drove it up the road and the car turned off. the guy called nissan and asked them what was wrong. they towed the car back to the dealership and told him that they need to reset the computer on the car after an oil change. so i went to the dealer where i purchased the car from to confirm if this was true and he said yeah, if you want an oil change that is not from a dealer, they need to have something to reset the computer? i mean what the hell? why can't i change the oil on my car without having a reseter? haha, i took it to the dealership for my first oil change and im paranoid about engine life so i told them to put synthetic oil which came out to be about $60 for a filter and the oil change. with my paranoid self, i wonder if they really put synthetic oil in the car. this is why i want to do the oil change myself so i can save about $20 an oil change and know FOR SURE that its running on synthetic. wow sorry i talk to much but does anybody know how to change the oil on the Z without it shutting down?

    another thing;

    i noticed, (not sure if this happened when i first got the car cuz i was too excited to drive it off the lot) but i have an automatic and when i put it on drive and take my foot off the brake, the car slowly moves forward and makes a brief vibrating noise. i can also feel it inside the car when this happens. i dont step on the gas or brake at this time, i just let the car roll and it makes that noise. it only does that when u shut the engine off and start it up again. i dont know if anybody else is having the same problem but i hope its not the brakes because ive been reading alot of complaints about brake problems and alignment. thanks for reading all of this, i hope that u didn't fall asleep -.-
  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    I never heard of this reset after an oil change so I posted over at THE source for all things related to our car.

    Please see:

    Hope this helps you but as you will read, I have my own reason for wanting to know what the deal is.

  • jabonetejabonete Posts: 2
    thanks man

    are u experiencing the vibration too? its very suttle, u wont feel it if u step on the gas or hit the brakes as ur going forward. im just really curious/concerned because of all the brakes and alignment problems people have with the car
  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    "are u experiencing the vibration too? "
    Today I spent some time trying to reproduce your problem but no dice.
    BTW, the problems you are referring to were on the 2003 model(first year of production) and I 'believe' the first half of the 2004 models.

    I have a 2005 and it looks like all the kinks are taken care of.

    I only have 2 complaints with this car and don't laugh.
    1) The blinker is so quiet that I end up driving down the road like an escapee from a nut house:)
    My Chevy Colorado TRUCK will start it's chiming sound if you drive for more than a few minutes with the blinker on to remind you.

    2) Why can't the stupid car do what 99.99999999% of all the cars do with the headlights.
    Turn on automatically when it gets dark (again my Truck does that) and turn on after a few minutes of the wipers being turned on.
    In my state (I think it varies by State ), you MUST turn on your headlights anytime you turn on the wipers.

    May sound trivial to you but it is not to me. #2 should be standard on ALL cars.

    BTW, did you get a chance to see the first reply on in answer to my/your question :blush:
  • rossbossrossboss Posts: 2
    Looking at a 2003 350z, excellent condition, 10,000 miles. Wondering what I should look out for...

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    with just 10k miles, there isn't a whole lo that would show up just yet. unless its real cheap, i'd probably advise stepping up to a 2004, even if with a few more miles, just in hopes of avoiding more of those first year problems.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • rossbossrossboss Posts: 2
    Thanks for the response. Can you give me an idea of the first-year problems I should look out for and ask the dealer about? Something I should have him address before I drive it off the lot? I know there are some alignment issues and feathering problems, but would like to knwo more. I'm pretty new to this Nissan game...
  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    #1, ask him if Nissan fixed the feather issue and take a look at the wear on his tires.
    The stock tires are Potenza RE40's.
    If those are not on there ask him why.

    #2,If you have never driven a 350Z, Don't test drive his until you have done your homework. Trust me - if you drive it, you will lose all objectivetity and say to yourself "I rally want this car"

    Now for my long ramble:

    You did not tell us which Model you are looking at so some of my comments may not be applicable (like wheel size and TPMS, for example)

    Of course the tire feathering issue is the major item that was in the press but being a first year car, there were also a number of nitnoids that they fixed later.

    One that comes to mind is that on the 2003, the bolster on the seat wore out really quickly.

    This website has ALL the service bulletins for Nissan's by MOdel and year.

    Take a gander at the list,the link I have enclosed, and see that you think about the 2003.

    It looks to me like it is 100% comprehensive as I looked up a number of the issues that I know the 2003 has and I found them.

    I have a 2005 Enthusiast Model so I am a bona fide Z owner.

    Here is my opinion , and it comes from reading a lot about the 2003 through 2005 model year's from supposedly unbiased sources.
    I say supposedly because I know the website like Edmunds and the magazines do have their advertisors so you have to wonder.

    If you can get Nissan to fix the tire feathering issue for free (they had a campaign going last year to fix it for free on ALL 2003's and the 2004 VIN's that were affected)and can get a good price on such a low mileage car(see what KBB says) , I would jump at it.

    There are a number of cosmetic (and now I could not live without them like the Tire pressure thing or the seat belt 'unrattler' but that is just me) changes made which you could live without BUT they did make a few of the performance features standard on the the Enthusiast model in later years.

    Let me add one caveat to my opinion, I have read many reports on the various Z boards that some (not all) of the 2003's were having various problems with parts of the transmission that required replacing or repairing.
    Some were about the gear box and some were about the differential.
    SO,I STRONGLY recommend that you buy an exclusionary warranty for this car as it is out of warranty (3 Years/36,000 miles) so if the tranny blows up, you are covered.

    Remember the #1 rule about making decisions's based upon problem reports you read in bulletin boards ,such as this one or,etc.:
    Statistically, they are completely useless to base decisions on since the sample set is comprised of nearly 100% of reports of problems because people rarely do not report non problems. IE. Most people only post about their problems in discussion based forums and are silent when things are going okay.

    I say this so you don't freak about my comment about reported transmission problems.

    If you really want to get valid data to help you decide, look at the long term ownership reviews done by the car sites/magazines, balanced reviews by owners (balanced means they talk about the good and the bad), the companies database of issues reported and complaints issued to the government agency who tracks ownber's complaints to decide if a recall is needed.

    It may set you back $15 but I would also do a Carfax check.
    I can not imagine anything showing up on what is pretty much a new car but unless you know the person selling the car and he is the FIRST and ONLY owner, you could probably skip it because the report will be neary blank.
    After all, if the odomoter was set back, I think that only shows up when the car chages hands or is reported to carfax.

    I still always do a Carfax report on every car I am seriuously considering and will then go back if I buy the car and update all the data on the car.

    I am sorry but I am drawing a blank on that website with the name of the government agency.
    Last time I researched to that level of detail was 8 years ago when I was buying a very used Porsche.

    One last thing and I promise I will shut up.
    It has been said by many sources that since the reviewers really dinged Nissan for the harse ride when the car came out, that starting with the 2004 model, they slighty softened up the suspension for a better ride and that due to this, the BEST handling model Z IS the 2003.

    I drove a friends 2003 Z (we both use the same Michelin Pilot Sports).His cause they needed it and me cause it was part of the new car deal cause the stock Potenza's are awfull.
    I KNOW his handled better than my 2005 when I pushed it really hard back on the farmland 'proving grounds'.
    I say this because there is on stretch back there that is my nemesis.
    It is banked all wrong, has 3 left curves, 2 straigtaways and 4 right curves. The speed limit sign says 30.

    No comments now: I can take that stretch at 72 before the rear starts telling me that is it right at the limit of breaking loose and in my friends 2003, I can take this stretch at 75 with NO sign of rear warning.

    I am looking into getting better tires which is how I somehow stumbked upon this thread.

    If you want more info, post back and I can get you my email address or phone number via cause they have Private Messaging and maybe we can talk in person? I hope that was not too presumptious of me.
    I am in my 40's so you are not talking to a kid.

    I hope all that rambling helps a bit and hope I did not go overboard.

    This could be a real buy so I hope we all can help you make an informed decision.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    i just want to address this one statement.

    see what KBB says

    99% of the time, KBB is total garbage. Its way overpriced.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    Lets deal in facts.

    Fact #1 - Car Dealers use KBB for pricing. NOT Edmunds. So get that out your head.
    I tried using an Edmunds price for a trade in at a dealer a few years back and was politely told "KBB is what is used to establish a starting point for negotiations. Car dealer's do not recognize Edmunds pricing"

    Fact #2 - KBB is NOT overpriced. Perhaps you meant to say "UNDERPRICED"?
    Please Do your homework before posting wrong information.

    Here is what the 2 'books' show for a 2003 350Z Enthusiast with Automatic,10K miles and in Good condition (no one ever gets The Excellent rating unless you were trading in a 2006 car you bough a few months ago)

    This is the car under discussion.

    Trade in Private Sale Dealer Retail
    $20,069 $21,948 $23,573

    Trade in Private Sale Dealer Retail
    $16,330 $19,145 $23,405

    I think I will stick with KBB if I were the poster who started this thread and wanted to buy the 350Z.

    May I ask what mythical guide you use to help you decide on a starting value for a car - used and new?
    Please don't say Edmunds.

    If I ever sell you my Z, I will very happy to use Edmunds's price:)
  • biancarbiancar Mid-AtlanticPosts: 918
    What tires did you end up getting?

    I just bought a new 2005 (left over from late last year) Touring Roadster. It came equipped with Michelin Pilot Sports on 18" alloy wheels.

    Salesman said they were A/S, but I don't find any A/S marking on them, so looks like they are high-performance, summer only tires not to be driven at all in winter.

    The dealership also gave me, as part of the deal, the next two sets of tires, for free. This is a new program they're doing, probably inspired by the notorious tire problems the early Z's had. But there's a big sign in the dealership about the "free tire" program, so it apparently is something any Nissan buyer can use.

    Thing about it is that the program says "tires will be replaced with same type as supplied on vehicle." I want him to agree that replacement tires could be either the A/S or the same as what I have, *at my preference." I'm a little concerned about having summer-only tires. Of course maybe I'll like them, and it's not as if we get much snow here anyway, so we'll see.
  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    Mine has the A/S tires on it (part of the deal when I bought the car) and the A/S symbol is VERY prominent.

    So you got the Pilot Sports which are raved about.

    I thought when I bought the car that I might need some help in snow but I have a 4WD Creb Cab truck and found that this winter, the Z NEVER got drivne unless it was a nice day.

    So with that in mind, I am going the complete other direction.
    I am looking at tires that are barely street legal but won't put me in circles if it rains at all.

    I want the Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07 but they don't come in my size and the C&D test is making the waters even more muddy.

    So, I am still studying up on tires.

    IN your case, the Pilots are raved about by Z owners but as you say, they are not for snow.
  • biancarbiancar Mid-AtlanticPosts: 918
    We only get maybe half a dozen really snowy days, if that, and maybe a few days of freezing rain and/or leftover snow. We're keeping our Maxima, so that will be fine for snow days. So might work out just fine to just have the HP tires and just don't drive on snowy days at all.

    After one day of ownership, I L-U-R-V-E my new Z! Took a long drive today on the GW Parkway along the Potomac River, up to Great Falls Park, got out, walked around for half an hour, looked at the river, the gorgeous views, the beautiful day, turned around and drove all the way south to Mount Vernon. Beautiful, beautiful day to spend on a lovely drive.

    Tires seem just fine!

    C&D test very interesting. The Pilot Sports they tested scored very high, but I noticed it was yet another variation, and not the same tires I have. Guess all the Pilot Sports are good tires.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    You couldn't be more wrong on all counts, zz.

    Try visiting the Real-World Trade-In Values board and learn a bit from the professionals over there. I never said anything about using Edmunds pricing. And if you have a dealer that uses KBB, please point me to them, if they are still in business. Any real dealer uses auction values. There is no book on the planet that can keep up with auction values. The closest you will ever find is Galves, and they are not 100% accurate 100% of the time, either.

    Is KBB ALWAYS wrong? no. i just said they are wrong most of the time, just like edmunds, just like NADA.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    "And if you have a dealer that uses KBB, please point me to them"

    From first hand knowledge cause they told me they use KBB numbers and where I either negotiated with and/or bought my Z and my Colorado within the past year:

    Antwerpen Nissan Clarksville,MD*
    Sheehy Nissan Annapolis,MD
    Ourisman Chevrolet Bowie,MD*
    J. B. A. CHEVROLET Glen Burnie,MD
    Toyota of Bowie Bowie,MD (almost bought a Tacoma but went with the Colorado)

    Go to and pick ANY used car you can think of and The KBB price is clearly listed next to each car listing.

    Two years ago:
    Carmax Laurel,MD
    I got a price on a car I was thinking of selling to them and when I balked at the low price, they showed me the KBB value on my car and said that they strictly use KBB numbers.

    Not sure where you are from so you would not have heard of those dealers BUT jump on over to carmax.

    I could go back to 3 years ago and list some more car dealers I dealt with that use KBB if you want when I last bought a car.

    Did I point you to enough?
  • zztop3zztop3 Posts: 23
    Interesting in that I see that Carmax has changed it's marketing method.

    They always listed the KBB value and then their "no haggle price" was a bit less.

    I see that they are not always listing the KBB value.
    I guess they have gotten so big that they can get way with just listing the price.

    Interesting that they do that on some and others they list the KBB value - dunno what the scoop is but anyway,

    Here is a listing for a 2005 Z on Carmax:

    CarMax® Used Vehicle Fact Sheet

    2005 Nissan 350Z 2D Hatchback
    Exterior Color: Silver
    Interior Color: Gray Cloth
    Mileage: 16K
    Current Store: Laurel
    in Baltimore/DC

    No Haggle Price: $24,599*
    Blue Book™ Retail Value:
    Jan. - Feb. 2006 Edition $24,810**
    Savings: $211

    They are the most successfull car dealer ever (it is why a lot of dealers are following that model)and they use the KBB.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,656
    all i can say is, "go chat with the dealers and salespeople here on edmunds." We don't need to discuss heresay. You can get it straight from the horses mouths.

    Now, to be fair, Terry, for example, on the Real-World board has said that KBB and even edmunds have reigned in their numbers over the past year or 2 and are getting closer to reality ... but there is still a variance.

    oh, and on that last post ... OF COURSE they will sell you a car at KBB! If every dealer could get KBB retail on their cars, they'd own the country. My last few cars I've paid $1500-$2500 over dealer auction value. That's typically been several thousand below KBB.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • biancarbiancar Mid-AtlanticPosts: 918
    ZZtop is right about them showing Blue Book value. It helps make their pitch, nothing wrong with that. I did a quick reference there before I bought mine.

    Comparable cars I found:

    - an 05 Touring Roadster, black, manual, with 6k miles, KBB price $35,745, carmax price 34,599, plus sizeable transfer fee as car is in Texas.

    - an 04 Touring Roadster, red,automatic, 16k miles, kbb 34,440, carmax price 31,998, also in TX so again a large transfer fee.

    I had those figures written in a little notebook prior to when I did my negotiation for an 05 Touring Roadster, red, automatic, w/ 49 miles. Dealer's offer $34,500, my final price $33,500. $199 doc fee, no transfer fee.

    It's not so much about whether KBB prices are exactly "Right" or not. The point is that people have heard of it, it gives a reference point. Most people don't even know where to find auction numbers, but they can find kbb numbers easily.

    My dealer was better than carmax prices, thus better than kbb, even before we started the negotiation, for what that's worth. He REALLY wanted to sell that car! And I'm very glad for it, made the decision easy.
This discussion has been closed.