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I test drove for a 2nd time today for over 1-hour and 50 miles, on both local road and highway. It has a great firm but not harsh suspension. Excellent road feel and feedbacks. Acceleration from 1st to 3rd are strong, especially on local street. However, it didn't feel as strong and fast as a 237hp car.
In addition, I didn't feel much a difference after the VTECT kicks in (above 6000-6500rpm).
Now the negative side. It's too noisy on hightway cruisuing at 75-85mph even in 6th. The convertible top does not provide much insulation. It's mainly wind, tire noises. I wouldn't take a trip longer than 100 miles or 2-hours in it on highway. I thought I was a die-hard performance car fun but I was proven wrong.
To conclude, the noise is the main deal breaker. Also, I was not so impressed by the not-so-strong acceleration and low torque of the S2000.
Well, the Honda dealer confirmed that there is going to be a 2008 S2000 with no or very minor changes.
I hope Honda would upgrade the S2000 by building a new one on this platform (nice and sharp style) with a more powerful engine - either a small displacement 2.5 inline 6 cyclinder VTEC or a turbo 2.4 inline 4. A 280hp and 220lbs torque would be ideal.
Improve the convertabile top with better insulation and add MPS, iPod input, and a better stereo. Maybe I hoped too much but this current version is aged.
I'll look at a Z4 3.0Si, Z4 M roadster, and a Boxster and see how they perform.
Improve the convertabile top with better insulation and add MPS, iPod input, and a better stereo. Maybe I hoped too much but this current version is aged."
Sorry, but I don't think it's the S2000 that has aged.
What a shame it would be to take away everything that makes the S2000 special and turn it into a quieter, heavier, more comfortable car like the BMW or Porsche.
I agree with fedlawman - if you want a heavier, dulled feel roadster like the Z4, get it. But don't suggest to Honda that they go in that direction with the S2000. You may not like the fact that it is visceral, but that's what makes it great and sets it apart from cars like the BMW and Nissan's obese 350Z.
As for the Boxster, they are lightweight, with exceptional handling. But, if the S2000 isn't quick enough for you, I think you will find the base model rather underwheming in straight line performance. You'll need to go up to a Boxster S to get something noticably quicker than the S2000.
Also, I'm not sure how many miles were on the S2000 that you test drove, but proper break-in on that car is extremely important and it should NOT be V-teched in the first 800 +/- miles. My 2002 model got stronger post break in, all the way up to about 5,000 miles.
P.S. I do understand where you are coming from on the comfort factor. I now drive a 2005 911S Cabriolet. But in the world of 2 seat roadsters, there's the Boxster S at $60k and the S2000 at $30k and everything else is a wannabe, IMO. That goes for the Z4, 350Z, SLK, TT, and a few others I probably forgot.
The noise is another thing. Back when I had my stock exhaust, the noise really wasn't that bad. The top doesn't buffer in the wind and the roadnoise is more determined by the tires you have (I use Falkens which are fantastic). The whine of my supercharger has always been hard on the ears, though. I can't really say how a stock S is on the road. I'm just too spoiled. ;-)
Luggage capacity is excellent for such a small car. I've moved 3 times in the thing (the Air Force moves my big stuff). Being that I weigh 140, the seats remain comfy, too.
None of this probably helped, but I thought I'd throw in my 2¢.
Boxster - 245hp with 201 lbs torque at 4400-6000rpm.
S2000 - 237hp with 162 lbs torque at 6200rpm.
They may be different animals but I prefer to more civil ride in the Boxster. Z4 is ok with some sportiness. Never tried TT but it looks 'too cute" for me. 350Z is just too heavy and coarse. No SLK for me since there is no manual shift available.
I just wanted to say what a fantastic ride I had in this morning. Air temperature was a cool 71 degrees, not a cloud in the sky, very little if any cross-winds, and very few cars - and the few there were, I was able to snake through (safety is alway paramount) and get ahead of the pack to pick up crusing again... what a fantastic drive... Unreal.
Serious question here: Do y'all think other convertible drivers enjoy a simple cruise as much as they might in the S? I mean, with the freeway cruise I had this morning, torque didn't matter, horsepower didn't matter, just top down wind blowing across your face sun beaming down singing along to the radio kind of fun... does it get any better than this? This is my first convertible so that is why I ask.
*cough cough* Boss, I think I'm sick :sick: and need to go home...
I did have an unfortunate encounter, though. I was cruising down the backroad going about 70 when I come over a hill and the road turned to dirt! 70mph on a dirt road in a high powered RWD convertible is an experience I do not want to undergo again.
Yes there is - the SLK280 comes with a 6-speed manual, but if you like the precision handling of the Boxster and S2000 it will feel dull by comparison.
I would have to agree that the base Boxster with a bit more low end torque is a more "civilized" ride than the S2000. Not as much fun, IMO. Nor is the performance as comparable as the hp similarities would suggest, when the S2000 is pushed to redline. But the current base Boxster is a big improvement from the original 200 hp model. That said, if you are already comfortable paying $20k+ more for a Boxster than an S2000, the additional $8k for a Boxster S puts you in the best roadster you can buy period, with no compromises.
Thanks for the heads-up. I appreciate your feedbacks. Since you owned an S2000 and own a 911 cab, you have a lot of hands-on experience.
Today I test drove a base 2007 Boxster, a 2007 Boxster S, and a 2005 base 911. What an experience!
Boxster- well-balanced, nice engine sound, slick and precise 5-speed shifter, clutch has great feels. The car is quick but does not have very strong accelerations. I would say it has comparable performance but more refined. It also some more low-end torque which makes me feel the car accelerates stronger than the S2000.
Boxster S - also well-balanced, very precise and smooth 6-speed shifter, clutch has great feedbacks and engagment feels. The S is very fast with much stronger accelerations than the base Boxster. The extra 50hp and 50lbs torque did make a huge difference.
BTW, the 6-speed shifter is the BEST shifter I ever drove,including S2000, BWM M Roadster, BMW Z4, BMW 335i, A4, A3, GTI, 350Z, Honda Civic Si, Miata MX-5, etc.
Now the base 911 Carrera - what a sports car! Very strong acceleration. The extra 30hp over the Boxster S did make a big difference. The rear-engined 911 feels quite different from the mid-engined Boxster S. Hard to describe in words. It's easier to get the tail loose on the Carrera than the S.
Ok, after this test drive both the base Boxster and S2000 are probably no longer on my list. But the S and 911 are beyond my range. Have to wait for a while before looking at this again. Sigh!
By then, it's going to be between a brand new Boxster S and a pre-owned (2-3 old) base 911. It's a very hard decision.
BTW, how much does the Boxster S and the base 911 depreciate annually? I figure the base 911 loses about 6K in value every year. Any information on the depreciation?
My 911S Cab is 2 years old, with 17,000 miles and, on a good day, I might be able to sell it for about $15-18k less than I paid for it ($7.5-9k /yr.). Trade in would probably be around $20-22k less. That takes into account that I got a great deal - bought a new 2005 model in September 2005 at a $10.8 k discount. However, that is also on a well optioned C2S Cab that cost nearly $30k more than a minimally optioned base C2 coupe. I suspect that a base C2 coupe would depreciate less. Although only $6k for the first year is probably optimistic.
Good luck. Sounds like you've gotten bitten by the bug. After test driving the 911, the Boxster was history for me - but that's also because I have two daughters that, could (and do) fit in the back seat. We have a "family car" and in the words of Mastercard, that's "priceless".
Thanks for your info. In your experience, how did you feel differently when test drivng a Boxster S and a 911? Can you describe it?
I just felt that the 30hp more on the 911 is more than what it is on the paper. The 911 has a "brutal" acceleration while the Boxster S has a very strong one, meaning the Boxster S is always under control but the 911 could get lose on its tail if you're not careful or inexperienced.
I have a 2005 911S with 355 hp and the 2005 Boxster S had 280 hp. So yes, there was a huge (75 hp) difference for me. But you are right, the 911 seems to have even more power than horsepower figures suggest. Perhaps that's because under hard acceleration, the 63/37 rear weigh bias shifts rearward even more and places all the weight over the drive wheels. In a 2005 Motor Trend road test comparison between the 911S and the slightly lighter 400hp Corvette, the 911S's 0-60 time of 4.2 seconds beat the Corvette's by 0.2. And the Corvette has a 105 ft. lb advantage. They attributed that to the great "dynamics" of the 911 allowing it to put maximum power to the pavement.
The mid-engined Boxster and Cayman are nearly perfectly 50/50 balanced and intuitive to drive. But even with the power and rear weight bias, I have found the 911 to be pretty forgiving. It does come with a much more advanced suspension than earlier 911 generations, enough rubber on the rear wheels (295/30/19 on the S model) to hold it planted and a great stability management system that doesn't kick in too soon, but reigns you in quickly on an unintended slide (did that once on a wet road).
That said, all of these cars - the S2000, Boxster, 911 - are best appreciated after a performance driving course. I still haven't followed my own advice on that one, but I'm really going to try next spring.
On the 911 forum someone asked you about the fundamental difference between a Boxster S and a base 911 Carrera( under 'Which Porsche to Get'. I'm curious to read what you would post.
The day I have been dreading is upon me - I have to part with my S2000 . It has been the third car in the family, we are a two car household and I take the public transportation to work. Although the missus is hooked on top down motoring thanks to the S, I cannot stall her anymore in trying to justify(!) the existence of the two seater, not to mention the fact that my four year old has become an absolute nut for top down rides late at night inside our development in the S and it really makes sense to get a four seater drop top so we all could enjoy it together...
Bottom line: I just sold the second car (Camry) and I cannot postpone the sale of my S2k any longer. I just have no clue if I have priced it right. I have copied the flyer info below ( I am sure everyone will agree in this forum that every word I say below is true, If I am anything like one of you...) . Can somebody let me know if I am way off on my asking price? What are the odds of getting the same numbers in spring assuming I just tack on a few hundred more miles (Well, the reality is, I really don't expect to clock more than 500 miles over the next 5 months, considering the car has barely been run 2k miles so far in 2007).
2002 HONDA S2000 CONVERTIBLE – 34,500 MILES. PRISTINE CONDITION INSIDE AND OUT!! SQUEAKY CLEAN TITLE, NON SMOKING LADY DRIVEN.
VIN - JHMAP11472T000116
FORMULA RED / BLACK INTERIOR, DETACHABLE HARD TOP, Custom black Grill Inserts, Rick’s Custom red & black leather Shift Boot and Black Aluminum Counter sunk shift knob, Painted red calipers with custom decals, Custom two tone leather steering wheel cover, Head rest back cover replaced in red, INGEN Cold air flow intake, NEVER TRACKED, ALWAYS BABIED, Convertible top replaced, Lovingly cared for, Meticulously and repeatedly hand detailed by me with ZAINO SHOW CAR PRODUCTS, Needs very little maintenance!! Pictures do no justice for this car – You have to see it to believe it!!!
Priced low for a quick sale – This car will actually cost you way more next spring!!!
Edmunds.com PRIVATE PARTY VALUE IS US$ 20,300/-. ASKING US$ 19,988 – FIRM!
FREE CARFAX REPORT AND MONEY BACK GUARANTEE AVAILABLE @
What do you folks think? Any Input would help...
Cheers!!
--njexpress
P.S: I am not trying to make a sales pitch, folks - It is a genuine question - Liek I asked, Am I on the mark here?
NADA = $20,350; KBB = $19,285; Edmunds = $18,292 (without hardtop)
Accelarator, Thanks for your kind words - I am looking at a Solara.
Fedlawman, I couldn't agree with you more - That is what I based my numbers on, and set my asking price at 19,988, with a few hundred dollars of wiggle room - I guess I am being reasonable then...
Thanks for the input! I will still be lurking this forum even after I sieze to own an S. After all, it is arguable one of the top 10 cars in the world in it's class...
But Alas, I gotta do what I gotta do...
--njexpress
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Cheers!!
--njexpress
I don't have to sell my S anymore - I am out of the emotional tight corner I was in. The wifey comes home after work yesterday (she drives it, not me anymore, as I take the bus to work)and goes, "Do we really have to sell this?!?!".
I go, Aside from the fact that the answer is no, May I ask what prompted the thought?" and she goes "Well, It just handles like nothing else I have ever driven!!" so, there I have it - I get to keep my baby - YEEAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! :LOL: :LOL:
Cheers!!
--njexpress
:shades:
cheers!!
--njexpress
http://www.carspace.com/videos/play!id=.5bb1b5a0
http://www.carspace.com/videos/play!id=.5bb1b393
Good luck!
Thanks for posting those videos!
I went through the same process - I wanted a somewhat civilized sound and no drone (have you heard that some of the aftermarket exhausts produce an annoying resonance in the mid-range called drone?)
At the end of the day i did a "resonator rectomy". There is a middle silencer that can be removed and replaced with a regular straight pipe at any muffler shop for $50. It gives ya a little sound for a little money. Better for me than a little sound for a thousand dollars and no power gain.
Youtube that exhaust video mentioned and also the resonatorrectomy"
my two cents
Msg me for the direct service phone number.
They import all sorts of crazy cheap stuff. They used to be a wholesaler (I think they still are, but they do sell direct now as well). I bought a stage III ACT clutch set for $600 3 years ago and I got the Invidia exhaust for under $500 a couple years ago. If you find a cheaper place, let me know.
As far as the drone, most systems do that. For the Invidia setup, it's got a mean growl until about 3800 and drones until about 5400. From there it runs almost silent until 6500 (weird, huh?). After that, it screams (think Ferrari) to 9000.
I would love an s2000 but if I get one if will need to be around 5 years used. Another option for the same price range is new/slightly used civic/si. Now I just need to determine the fun v. practical debate.
Any comments on the decision or advice on shopping for a used s2k?
Happy Holidays :shades:
Take this into consideration; if you buy an S that is 5 years old (although I doubt you'll have to get one that old but for the sake of this scenario, let's pretend you found one that is 5 years old selling for $20,000). If you finance a $20,000 for 5 years, you are looking at about a $500/month payment (not including auto insurance, maintainance, etc). Now, let's fast foward 3 years, you are still paying $500/month on a car that is now 8 years old and has 96000 miles (given the average person drive 12000 miles per year) and out of warranty. Fast forward a little more and you are still paying $500 on a car that is 10 years old and has in the neighborhood of 120000 miles. As much as I love this car, this scenario isn't the wisest thing in my opionion. Now, if wait until you get that better paying job now that you are out of college, you may be able to pay for a new one OR lease a new one for much less than $500/month payment. You can definitely get one for less than $30,000 new ($30,000 would be about $600/month on a purchase). Keepingin mind, many people get married within 3 years of getting out of school. So if you leased it, you'd be able to settle down into that next stage of life, turn in the S and get more practical car OR if you purchased it, hang on to it for the weekend car, OR buy it out at the end of the lease although buying out the leases is not typically the financially wisest choice but does work better for some people's budgets.
All that said and like tbird said, I don't think you'll have to get one that old if $20 is your price range. I think 3 years should get you within that range. I paid $27.5k for mine, new. Also like Tbird said, I wish I would have had this car out of college, too. I get a lot of attention now but being married, all I can do is look. :P
Sounds like an awesome deal you got estreka!
@jmer
See, there are deals to be found, just do not take the first S that comes along unless it is what you want. I enjoy a spirited drive but the AP1 were too jarring for this body - the AP1 is a little softer than your average go-cart! I already creak and crack when I walk and don't need my daily driver making me worse. For me and my driving style, the AP2 was better match. I drove a 2003 with 4200 miles on it. It was fantastic car but the wife didn't like the ride quality; after getting her to ride in an AP2, it was easier for her to agreeing to the car. She veto'd the AP1. )
I didn't need a car for most of college and was able to drive my dad's old car for this year. It will go to my younger brothers when I graduate so I don't need a car now but will definitely need to buy one by May.
I already have a job lined up and while I would love to buy now to possibly get a better price during the winter and enjoy during the last few months of school, paying the extra insurance and monthly car payments doesn't make sense until I need it and am closer to getting regular paychecks.
As of now, I plan on buying rather than leasing so when I do need a more practical car, I can then either choose to sell the s2k or keep it as a weekend car if it works out at the time. Buying new would be ideal but even if I could get a great price, the extra $8k + difference in insurance is more than I can spend. I'm going to try and get one with 20-30k miles to avoid the problem you mentioned.
Thanks everyone for your advice-
It seems like 2002 is as old as I would want to go so I could get the glass rear window. I will probably look mainly at the 02-05 models. There has been some talk on ap1 v ap2- does anyone have any further thoughts?
I assume AP1 designates the 2003 and earlier 2.0 liter / 9000 rpm model and AP2 the 2004 and later 2.2 liter 8,000 rpm model?
I put nearly 20,000 miles on my 2002 S2000 before trading it in May, 2004. Personally, I thought the 2004+ model rode harsher, not softer with it's 17" wheels and lower profile tires than the 16" wheels on my 2002. My wife thought the same thing, that the 2004+ was harder over the bumps, although she appreciated the slightly quieter, lower revving engine.
Your assumptions are correct about the AP1/AP2.
You do bring up a good point with the larger wheels. The only AP1 I've driven was earlier this year was a 2001 with only 3,000 miles on it BUT I have no clue if the wheels were orginal. More than likely, the dealership replaced them simply for the age of the rubber and it would be probable that they put non-oem wheels on it which could affect the ride quality. When I have to replace the rubber, I'll probably go with a slighly softer sidewall and/or quieter tire. I primarily commute on the freeway, not a twisty back roads, unfortunately.
TIA, Reb
The top is subject to a great deal of abuse, so it's only logical for it to be the first part that breaks down. The mechanicals are fine, but the fabric (and particularly the foam liner) are prone to failure. The foam liner on the passenger side of my S needs replacement, but it's not necessary. I get some extra road noise and it will leak under a high power hose.
The rear differential (known as the 'pumpkin') has been known to fail under hard acceleration. Replacement is relatively cheap ($1,100 for the part, about 2-3 hours, labor). Now, keep in mind, this isn't a part that has a high failure rate, but it does happen. To give you an example, my S is heavily modified yet I've never busted the pumpkin. I even snapped an axle in half (at a point where it's solid 1.25" metal!) yet the rear diff was unscathed.
Next, the clutch. I have to replace mine every 25-30K miles, but I'm putting down a lot more power than stock. I'd expect replacement every 90-100K miles. The stock clutch runs around $200. Unfortunately, the task is rather labor intensive due to a requirement to shift the entire engine forward. Expect high labor costs.
Finally, the paint. The S2000 has a rather thin clear coat. Pay special attention to how well kept the exterior looks. Also, ask.
All in all, my 4 years of ownership have cost me $2,070 in mnx (excluding tires and oil). That's pretty darn cheap! Especially for a modified model.