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Comments
You probably guessed correctly --- most likely all the problems and complaints were not that big of deal to begin with. I believe that very few people have had some problems with the 4Runner. When you compare to the competition, it is very apparent that the 4Runner is the best value in its class.
I have driven my 04 V8 Limited 4600 miles and have not had any of the mentioned problems: ...... NO vibrations in drive line, NO seat latch rattles, NO wind noise, NO sulfur smells, NO bad sound systems." My 4Runner has been perfect. I have talked with a few owners of the new generation of 4Runners and all are very satisfied.
I read on the 'Toyota 4Runner Discussion' that you are waiting for the 05 4Runner? Whatever Toyota will add will only make this outstanding vehicle better. Good Luck..
I first presented the vibration problem at 5048 miles to my dealer the last week of August! It is mostly felt through the steering wheel and the accelerator and occurs at various speeds. There is also a droning noise associated with the vibration and is most notable under load. They tried balancing the wheels with no improvement. They agreed the problem was there and notified Corporate. Their technical staff had them remove the front axels and retest. The vibration, which started at 22 mph, went to 32mph 42, 55, and 62mph now disappeared! The dealer was advised that there was an angle problem with the front drive shaft. A week later a technical representative met with me and mentioned that several similar vehicles in Phoenix had the same problem. He suggested it probably would take about two months to get a fix. He felt that Toyota would probably just replace the whole unit rather than putting in different parts.
Two months later I talked to the Tech. Rep. again and he mentioned that the Engineering group had determined the problem to be interferences in the spider gear assembly in the front differential, they were trying to correct the condition with thrust washer shims and other things. They claimed that the problem was not a safety factor; I wonder though what would happen if the front end were to freeze-up since it’s in 4WD all the time!
I have presented my claim to the Toyota Customer support group. I have called them regularly once a month and have had no success at finding what their schedule is for the fix, --only to say “we are working on it and your dealer will notify you.”
I’ve since heard from my dealer staff that they have a number of Lexus GX470's as well as 2004’s 4-Runners involved. I’m beginning to feel that they have so many vehicles with differential assemblies involved, that it may require some kind of major redesign and build. It might be a long time before we see a fix!
I contacted the NHTSA during January and presented a claim. I noticed several other similar claims there also.
I haul a Pop-up trailer and does it magnify the problem!
One thing I did notice was that the vibration appears consistently at 60 mph. Has anyone else had this problem? The vibration does not get transmitted to the steering wheel nor the floor but I can still feel it. It actually makes a "whup whup" noise but at a very high frequency and of course very low decibels. I'm almost sure this might be something to do with the propeller shaft being out of balance or the U joint not being lubricated or the U joint requiring re-torquing.
Also, when I change from H2 to H4 and vise versa, I Hear a small "thump" before the 4WD blinking lights go off, is that normal?
Any input will be appreciated
Fill out the form here:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsear- ch.cfm
Toyota has managed to design these 4runners so tight and sensitive, that if something is barely out of sync, you will notice via shake or vibration.
dpeng: I've been called picky over these vibrations too. Well *%&$%#$%^&*!!! For this amount of money and todays technology, we should expect a smooth drive train.
Anyway coming back to my visit, I bluntly told the guy that he was wrong and even used some quite aggressive words while still trying to be polite. He had the audacity to tell me that what he said was mentioned by Toyota in the users manual, I challenged him to tell me where and did mention that I have read it multiple times cover to cover.
Finally he said someone will take a look at it and they made me wait for 2 1/2 hours and said that since the weather was bad they could not drive the vehicle at 60mph to duplicate the problem and I may have to leave the vehicle with them for an entire day.
Before leaving the service manager again tried to convince me that I'm not supposed to drive the 4runner beyond 60mph in 4WD, this time I told him that we no longer live in the 1980's and the 4runner has a central diff. He just shut up for a couple of seconds and said I will have to bring the car in on a weekday.
BTW, I will be taking my 4runner to the dealer this week, they are giving me a loaner for the entire day.
IMO your service manager knows better and is lying to you. You know you are not the only one with this problem he's seen.
I still feel a faint click on occasion when I press the brakes but that's all.
If you don't have another dealer nearby, ask for the Field Service Tech. Whoever told you it's normal is not in the loop on this.
Resolution of my issues from the long winded post #106:
I complained about the moonroof, headliner and belt noises at the 10k tune up. The dealership fixed the belt noise (this time it did not immediately recur so I think it is solved) and addressed the moonroof. The moonroof noise is still there, though less. They did not want to deal with the headliner rattle until they solved the moonroof rattle. Interesting thing is my mileage took a dump right after this service, by about 2mpg calculated (as opposed to the computer readout). I'm tracking it for my service tech for my 15k tune up at which I will mention moonroof, headliner, suspension and mileage concerns.
My word of advice to those getting the belt noise issue taken care of: Save the old belt! They will change it out for a new one as part of the service and you will have a spare with little miles on it.
I look at this forum as a communication piece to help me in a purchase of a 4-R. I realize there has to be some problems even in the Lexus and Infinity products. I think it is great when people get to let us know the problems they've encountered but more often than not they come in here, blow off steam and they disappear, almost as if a "gag order" was issued to them. That is the part I don't understand. The communication to them is just one sided. If they never get back to this group then I dismiss there input. I wonder if those folks who were going to use the "lemon law" ever got a new vehicle or their money back. I have to believe these few problems were probably fixed and they are too embarressed to return.
The problem is, I can't find any good place to attach an anchor for the seat tether. There are anchors in the seat backs for forward facing, but no sign of anything for rear-facing child seats.
For obvious reasons, I'm hoping to avoid drilling into the floor pan.
Any help would be appreciated.
I just can't think of where you would attach a top tether for a rear-facing seat, other than looping it back over the seat-back, and I don't think this is recommended.
Please let us know what you find.
I first attached the car seat to the LATCH points behind the passenger seat and made sure it was tight as possible.
It was kind of a pain but what I did next was move the passenger seat all of the way forward and then attached the tether extender (just a piece of belt with a fabric loop on one end and a metal piece on the other with a hole for the tether to attach to) to the base of the passenger seat (on the door side). This is the part that doesn't move and the seat slides back and forth in. I made sure that I placed the tether attachment between 'base points' of the seat that rest on the rail so I could then move the seat back all of the way.
I then hooked the actual tether to the extender and moved the seat all the way back and tightened the tether.
It works great so far but the tether extender doesn't really allow the passenger seat to slide back and forth that much (if at all). Not as big as deal for me as we just leave the passenger seat in that single position. We couldn't use the other LATCH position (the one in between the 'middle' and driver's seat) because then we wouldn't have been able to move the drivers seat back and forth for different drivers.
You could probably play around with finding the best rail to attach to but these were the only points that I found that were attached to the frame that I could use.
It's all moot for me in a week because the offspring will turn one and we'll be moving the seat to the other LATCH position and turning it forward and using the tether points on the back of the middle row. We use a Britax Marathon seat.
-David
Scan Tool retrieved DTC PO420 Tech. checked sensor data and all within spec. No corrections at this time. No problem found.
The Technician simply reset the computer and the check engine light went off. Well today, the check engine light and VSC lights came back on again. I called the dealer and the tech told me that the code had to do with the catalytic converter. I asked him at what point do they decide that the converter should be replaced? He told me that I would have to bring it in and if the code was the same they would have to check the specs again. What specs? He stated the sensors worked with spec so doesn't that mean there is really a problem? What kind of sensors monitor the catalytic system?
Also, I don't know if this is a coincidence or not, but my gas mileage went from an average of 18.5 MPG (combined city highway) to 16.2 MPG over the past couple of months. I use regular unleaded 87 octane. I tried different gasses, but it didn't seem to make a difference.
Any help would be appreciated!
IIRC, the V8 uses 3 catalytic converters, one for each bank of cylinders, and then one in the pipe after the sides are combined together. The V6 uses 4 converters, and doesn't combine the exhausts until after the second pair.
Sounds like you've got a genuine malfunction, and perhaps a problem with the ECU or fuel pressure regulator or something that's causing excess fuel to be sent in. I think that extra fuel heats up the converters, but don't know about long-term damage. I suppose you can take it back to the same dealer again, or try a different dealer that may be more agressive about finding the problem. The problem may actually be intermittent (the check engine light is, anyway) and so they may be reluctant to do much until it becomes permanent or at least manifests itself 2 or more times.
Let us know how this goes.
Thanks for the education!!! I'm taking my vehicle to a different dealer on Thursday. They also asked if my fuel cap is on tight. I know it is, but I'll check it anyway. I'll report back with the dealers answer.
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for your responses. I did a bit of research, popped off a few pieces of plastic trim to see what was there and solved the problem on my own.Here's how the story goes...
Britax seats MUST have the tether for the rear-facing application to hold the seat back at a 45 deg. angle. It's not strictly speaking a top tether in that application of the seat.
The seat comes from the manufacturer with a short loop of webbing w/ a steel D-ring attached to create a tether point for the rear facing application. Basically, you need to create a tether point using some structural element in the vehicle and this webbing/D-ring. The webbing/D-ring is ONLY for the rear facing application. Forward facing requires a true top tether anchor point.
After scrutinizing the owners manuals for both the truck & the seat, I found a good spot. I used the metal foot at the base of the front seat which is bolted to the floor. I just popped the plastic trim off and wrapped the webbing/D-ring around the foot. I have installed the seat in both LATCH positions with no problem. The seat is really solid & does not interfere with the operation of the front seats at all. Of course, the seat can only be adjusted so far backward without hitting the body of the child seat.
dpalau, I can't tell from your description if you did the same thing as me or something different, but I get the feeling you did the same thing.
FYI: I asked Britax why the LATCH program does not include a low tether point for rear-facing convertible seats and they told me that they are the only manufacturer that uses a tether for rear-facing seats and that LATCH is designed for the majority of seats, not all seats.
Still trying to get the rear door seals around the wheel housing replaced.
It sounds like we pretty much did the same thing. Except I didn't pop the plastic part off and just put the D-ring around the 'rail' that attaches to the foot.
That is all fine and well, but if this continues, they really have to do something about it, right? As of now this has happened to me about 4 times in the last 4 months, but twice in the last two weeks. He told me that the winter gas causes this situation and I wouldn't have the problem in the summer. I'm going to try using differnt gas. I have been using mostly Amoco mid grade. Maybe I have to go back to using premium.
Any thougths?
Next time you crank the 4Runner, turn the ignition on for 2 or 3 seconds so that the idiot lights come on but don't crank it. This should be long enough for the fuel injection to prime the cylinders and may help starting.
I'm not enough of a motorhead to know the real reason this helps (thus my italics), but the technique seems to help some people around the Hall.
Steve, Host
I suspect that during the start cycle the engine computer ignores your gas pedal input, so flooring it won't help.
If the ethanol/gas blend you're using is meeting the standards (less than 10% alcohol, I think) required by the vehicle, I think your dealer should look deeper into this. The vehicle is designed to run on this fuel, after all.
One other possibility probably doesn't apply to your vehicle, but I'll mention it just in case. If you do a couple of very rapid start/stop cycles and let the vehicle sit, it may be hard to start (for the first time only) afterward. For example, if you start the car to back it out of the garage to wash it and then later start it again just to roll it back in the garage, and then leave it for a while, it may be hard to start. Best thing is to drive the car around a little after you wash it, to warm the engine a little.
After many complaints, Toyota decided to fix them for "free" as part of an "extended" warranty. I had a 91-4Runner and was called by the dealer I bought it from around 97-98. They asked if I still had the truck and I said yes. They offered to replace the head gasket for free. I took it to a closer dealer for my second "free" head gasket. The first one busted about 94 or so and I had it replaced under the truck's original extended warranty. (The mileage was about 1500 miles over the warranty, but a helpful service manager told me she didn't need to report the mileage.) You might want to check with Toyota to see if they are still replacing them for free.
I do not recall any other service problems.
The clutch was replaced around 95K and the transmission was never rebuilt.
As for better SUVs you could buy in that era, I couldn't think of one.
My first 4x4 was the 91 Toyota Trekker, the predecesor of the 4Runner. Toyota sent the basic 4x4 to Winnabago who cut off the back of the cab and put a cap on the back. I drove it 135K and sold it to one of my hunting buddies who drove it another 50K until the body rusted out and it could not pass VA safety inspection.
I drove the 91 4Runner 185K. Both the Trekker and 91-4Runner went to hell and back. All over the national forest from Maine to NC. Both went airborne many times and lived for more adventures. Both had winches but only the 91 had to use it for it's own recovery. I slid down an icy hill, over 500 ft., backwards, and had to winch it back up the hill. Took 1.5 hours.
My now departed doggies (two GSD bothers) truly loved the truck too. All I had to say was "truck-truck" and they would start for the front door, whining and barking. My wife was concerned about its reliability with it's high milege, considering that where I go cell phone don't work. Then, she discovered that it didn't have airbags. So, with tears streaming down my face, I donated it to Purple Heart, and watched it disappear on a Jerr-Dan for the auto auction in PA. (The dogs watched and whimpered.)
Unlike some SUVs, Toyota has its protected underneath from one end to the other. Take it off-road or drive it though frozen snow drifts. Both activities could take out something underneath. Recently, looked under the 2004 Ford F-150, Off-Road Edition, and noted that the skid plate does not cover the front part of the a/c-radiation area. The Ford Explorer Off-Road Edition does not even offer complete skid plates. Look at Jeeps SUVs and note the gas tank
at the rear. (Toyota's is under the right side, I think.) I had a 96
Nissan Pathfinder for one year and it had a plastic skid plate under the front. I was very careful where I took it.
Look at Consumer Reports or other reports on older SUVs. Note the problems with others, vs. the 4Runner. No, I don't work for them. But, I now take the 98-4Runner off road on some of the same trails that jeeps with big tires take and mine is straight off the showroom floor.
I haven't bothered to put a winch on it. I'm just not worried, as long as I stay off the ice and don't play in the mud.
Have been looking for new SUV that would tow a 5000 lb. or more camping trailer should we decide to get one in the future as we're about to retire. After reading lots about the Nissan Armada, I'm getting concerned about some of it's problems although not unusual for a first year. (I do not trust the reliability recoreds on other large SUVS.) So, I'm looking at 4Runners again, since the V-8 will now tow 7000 lbs.
Can't improve on success!
Good luck on your search.
81 Trekker
I'm having trouble locating the Lexus TSIB ST004-04 "Steering Vibration and Vibration/Drone".
Can anyone give me a pointer to it?
Thanks,
Eric
-You mention "similar problem". Then I take it you mean a slight vibration felt in the steering wheel and/or floor of the vehicle and not a wheel shimmy effect. It almost feels as though there is a vibrator in the steering wheel. Sometimes it can be felt even when the vehicle is NOT moving(motor running). This is different than a wheel shimmy, which is caused by tires out of round or improper balance of tire/wheel/brake combination. An imbalance will in most cases be felt as a movement in the steering wheel and sometimes as a slight hopping or shuddering of the vehicle. This will cause an uneven wear pattern on the tire affected. Something that would have been noticed when you got the new tires. Different actions and different causes. If you are trying to correct the vibration problem by tire balancing, I dont think it will work. The vibration is coming from the drivetrain not the tires. Surprised that whoever is doing the tire work has not explained the difference.
-If you do have the drivetrain vibration problem and not a tire imbalance, a good option is to have your complaint documented with Toyota Customer Care and be sure it is also included in you dealer service records. TCC will give you a file number and will contact your dealer who will then contact you. The dealer then returns info to TCC which is included in the file. Call TCC back to confirm the dealers call back. Get the TSB, know exactly what you are talking about, file a well articulated, responsible,civil complaint and keep a good set of notes. Also file a complaint on the NHTSA web siteie; CYA. When a TSB for the 4Runner comes along you should be covered as you will have the documentation should you have to go to an arbitrator or higher.
Thanks for the reply.
I've got a TCC number and I just put together a detailed history of all the facts. I still need to go on the NHTSA website and file the complaint.
I'd love to have a copy of what others are sending in to Toyota on this problem. It's so frustrating to live with this problem all the time on a new, expensive vehicle, yet have someone tell you there's no problem.
Thanks,
Eric
I noticed your line about the rear door housing seals. Is Toyota fixing these somehow?
I thought I heard that they fixed this for the '04 models. Are they giving free upgrades to '03 owners if they complain enough?
Any info appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric
Also, anyone else out there have the problem of the doors automatically locking them selves when the remote is maybe 10 feet away and laying on a stationary counter top, appears magic at times and very annoying.
My guess is they figure that you have the key fob with you, and maybe you inadvertently pushed the unlock button as you are walking away from the rig to go to the big game, (or some other long event where you parked in an unprotected area..) it will lock itself for you. Or in some cases a new driver of the 4R may not look at the fob when they push a button and think that they are locking it...
One "temporary" solution to defeating this feature is to depress the unlock button, then open one of the doors and then close it again. The alarm should not reset and the doors should remain unlocked. This is useful if you are working around your 4Runner and don't feel like carrying the keys on you. One thing that is for certain, never leave your keys in the 4Runner (unless, of course, you have at least one window open).
Am seriously thinking about purchasing the 2004 Sports V6 edition with moonroof after discouting the Highlander(not appealing enuf) and the RX ($$$$$).
I will be test driving the vehicle in the next day or two and from the posts i gather that I should check the vehicle for
Wind Noises
Tapping noise from the driver side and noises from the passenger side.
Inquire about the sulphur smell (linked to the catalytic conv, not that i'll be able to detect it with the test drive)
Any other areas/aspects i should be looking for? I live in NY (westchester)..anybody from around there with experiences (bad/good)?
The impact bent the bumper guard and dented it in one place. It drove the bumper guard's vertical rail into the 4Runner's bumper, but the vinyl trim kept it from doing any appreciable damage to the bumper cover. All this damage appears to have absorbed all the energy of the impact, and so it appears her insurance company will only have to replace the bumper guard (about $320; I'll bolt it on myself) rather than the bumper (about $1200, I've heard, including installation and painting to match).
I bought the bumper guards for parking lot encounters like this (see my previous posts on the subject if interested) and at this moment I'm really glad I did.
For example:
hollier1 "Kia Sorento problems" Apr 13, 2004 10:52pm
Steve, Host
Rayy: Check my ealier posts on this same problem. Essentially it's not normal to feel a buzz in your brake pedal. There is a problem with the brake booster. The same thing was happening to me (2003 SE)and it took several trips to 3 different dealers before it was properly diagnosed and fixed. After they replaced the booster the buzzing ceased. You may have a hard time in finding the right mechanical diagnosis because he will tell you what Steve said - it's the ABS checking itself. Wrong! If you need any assistance, email me.
thanks.