Ford Mustang (2005 and Newer)

akirby · January 2004

Definitely 4 seats. That's one of the reasons they couldn't use the dew98 platform - not stiff enough. The Tbird uses extra reinforcement behind the seats but since the mustang is a 4 seater they couldn't do that.

ballpark · January 2004

It is a valid point that a large percentage of the public has no idea about the new Mustang, or any other car for that matter. But I don't consider potential "buyers" to be a part of that group. Take me for example. In 1998 I began shopping for a new car. My criteria was:
1. A V-8
2. Automatic Transmission
3. It had to be a Car. No trucks, SUV's.

It took me a year to finaly buy because I wanted to see the "new" 99 Mustang. I did not want to risk buyers remorse. I also knew that if I did NOT like the new 99 Mustang there would be PUH-LENTY of 98's to pick and choose from at discounted prices. I bought the 99. Glad I waited.

I wasn't even a Mustang nut at the time. I could've bought a Camaro. And would have had the Chivvy dealer been willing to go 2% over invoice. (The Ford Dealer did)

Anyway all I'm saying is that I was part of the General public until it came time to plunk down a wad of hard earned cash. Then I became a part of the "buying" public.

About the GTO. Saw it at both the California and the LA Auto Shows. If all you want is a big engine and don't care what it's wrapped in, then this is your car. For my tastes it was very bland on the outside.

Strangley enough, It's been five years since I bought my 99, and although there are now more cars available with V-8's, the Mustang is still the only "affordable" one around. When I saw the Chevy SSR I thought wow, this thing is gonna steal some Mustang Thunder. When I heard the Chevy Spokeman spout $42 grand as the sticker, I thought WOW! Chevy blows it again! So for now it looks like, as in '65 Mustang has an "open field".

revdrluv · January 2004

I really feel like the SSR is going down the exact same road the T-bird did. Those are DEEPLY discounted these days. You think Chevy would see the error of Ford's ways and alter their strategy for this car. Or they could just say, "we intended from the start to make this car a short production run of x years." lol

Maybe they think they will bank on the SSR's 300 hp?

Not with an attractive 300 hp 25k Mustang right around the corner.

qbrozen · January 2004

big difference is the SSR is SLOW and HEAVY. Really not anywhere near Mustang territory, even if it was the same price as a Mustang. All that power means nothing when the darn thing weighs well over 2 tons. The Tbird and SSR is a much closer comparison.

akirby · January 2004

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think you are overestimating the buying public's interest in cars and car news. I think the vast majority of people who go into a Ford dealer to buy a new mustang will have no clue there is a new one around the corner, and the dealers definitely won't tell them. I think we, as enthusiasts, are in the minority.

john_324 · January 2004

I'm with akirby on this one. But even if the general public is aware of the upcoming Mustang (which I don't think it is, if only because it HASN'T BEEN ON TV YET...for most people, this is their source of car info), I don't think it's going to destroy sales of the current gen. like some predict.

Re the other topic, I've yet to see an SSR in person. Is it out yet?

qbrozen · January 2004

As far as I understand, it is out. I have seen folks selling "real, in stock" ones. Saw one one of those classified ads in the rear of one of the trade mags (I think autoweek) and, IIRC, it had an asking price of $50K+. I'm sure there are some on ebay, too.

seminole_kev · January 2004

Hey guys, I have to admit that Mustangs haven't done anything for me in a long while. I had an old '66 Mustang when I was in high school that I loved. I partially restored it and just really learned to love that car as I worked on it.

That said, I haven't liked any of the Mustang's styling efforts since the 1970 version (and even then, I'm not wild about where they removed the 69's headlights). And I absolutely hate the current (SN95 is it?) version. Just way too boy racer styled for my taste (I really despise 47, non-functioning scoops, but that's just me). Not saying anyone's wrong for liking it, just that it just isn't my thing.

However, this new "retro" Mustang (with a decent quality interior it seems) really has me interested. This new one really captures a lot of the styling cues from the various 60's models and little things here and there really remind me of my 1966 coupe on the inside. Oddly enough, I was looking at probably something on the order of a BMW 3 series/Audi A4 as my next car, but this Mustang has me really interested. Might have to give up the extra set of doors and go with my heart.

If this car drives well (I did see it still has the solid-rear axle), is well built, and the interior doesn't look like it is made of recycled defective Legos, Ford just might have a sale from somebody who'd had written of Mustangs (and the other Pony cars) long ago. Good job Ford. Wonder if I'm the only one of the non-pony car guys it will attract, or there will be more.

By the way, rereading this I probably make myself sound older than I am. I'm 28.

akirby · January 2004

I drive a Lincoln LS and would definitely consider a mustang for my next vehicle. GT convertible most likely.

baggs32 · January 2004

"Might have to give up the extra set of doors and go with my heart."

Exactly! With a 6 week old baby it was a tough decision to make right now too. I could be zooming around in a brand new, and practical, Mazda3 or Mazda6 in a month or two but the '05 Mustang started tugging at my heart strings again when I saw the pictures.

The fat lady started singing when she heard that tune!

seminole_kev · January 2004

Funny, but the Mazda 6, and even the new Mazda 3 5-door hatchback are on my list of things to check out. Kinda all over the map style wise, but the new Mustang is really pulling at the old heart-strings.

jfender · January 2004

I just purchased my 2002 GT, 5-speed manual, convertible in September (used with 9,000 miles). I simply ADORE my car. I bullied my poor husband into buying this car and I haven't regretted it for a second. It is TOTALLY not practical for a mom with kids ages 5 and 9, but so what? LOL!

Now, I'm drooling over the 2005. Will I be rushing right out in the fall to get one. Unfortunately, no....the little bit of practical-ness that's left in me will restrain me for a couple of years. Besides which, we rarely buy anything brand spanking new off the lot anymore. Let someone else take the depreciation and I'll then buy it from a reputable local dealer who will warranty it for a decent timeframe / mileage range.

My 2002 turns heads like nothing I've driven before. (Well with the exception of the GMC one-ton dually I used to drive...many people found it odd to see a 5ft woman driving the thing.) An old boyfriend from my teens turned me onto muscle cars from the day he drove up in the 55 Chevy Bel Air he and his father restored. That was followed by a 66 Chevelle and a then a 67 Mustang. I had my own "hot rod" for my own first car: 1972 Olds Cutlass. My other dream car is an early 70's 442.

The 2005 will turn even more heads, in my not so humble opinion. So, this Mustang fan (who admits very little tech knowledge) who knows what she likes when she sees it and drives it, will simply be biding my time until I can have one of these babies in my driveway. I've gotta couple of years to decide between torch red and yellow. And of course, it must be a rag top.

john_324 · January 2004

Your husband had to be bullied into getting a Mustang GT?! :-)

baggs32 · January 2004

I have driven both a Mazda6 V6 auto and an I4 5-speed. Both were very nice cars for the money. If I were going to buy one now I'd go with either engine coupled with the 5-speed tranny. The auto tranny just didn't do it for me in that car.

I have not driven a Mazda3 yet but I have been to the dealer to see one in person. Looks good but the one I'd want stickers around $20,000.

When you consider that a new Mustang GT coupe should be about $23k - $24k and have a V8, the Mazda's don't seem as appealing anymore. Especially if you were going to "settle" for either one to begin with like I was.

I also drove an '03 Focus SVT. That car was pretty awesome! I was really close to buying it last month because after our trade-in, X-Plan discount, and rebates it would have been about $12,000. So don't rule one of those out either. You gotta hurry if you want one though.

seminole_kev · January 2004

I currently own 2 focuses (foci?), but before I get pigeonholed, I'm not a Ford fan (or hater for that matter). Just needed some affordable, fun to drive transportation. Really like those and loved the SVT Focus, could have used a few more ponies in my opinion, but a great car nonetheless. Too bad Ford's killing it.

Back on to the 2005 Mustang, I guess I should mention that I've always loved 60's cars (well not all of them!) even though I was born in '75. So this probably is also why the new Mustang appeals to me visually inside and out. Really glad to see this change up in style by Ford, because on it's previous course, I doubt I'd ever buy a Mustang. This new one really intrigues me. I really hope this car drives well. Won't have to be like a SVT Focus, but well enough. I did like how the old Fox-bodied 302 motored Mustangs went in a straight line, but always felt like they were a truck wearing a coupes' body. Hoping the new Mustang's more refined in the suspension category despite the solid axle in the back.

jjgittes · January 2004

I'm in the same boat as seminole kev, above. I've been looking at a bunch of cars for purchase in the next year and the new mustang could make me give up 2 doors. Ford could really hook me if the interior is truly nice, the car is put together Honda tight, and if they offered the v-8 with an understated minimal spoiler adorned body. Something along the lines of the Bullit. I'm no boy racer, and I don't want to look like one. We'll see, but Detroit's taste never fails to disappoint me when I finally stop by the dealer to look.

seminole_kev · January 2004

so I've been told. Good, hate spoilers!

brucelinc · January 2004

I have high hopes for the new Mustang. I had never owned a 4 door until my current Lincoln LS and would really like to get back into a more expressive higher-performance coupe. Although the Lincoln LS has been a great car, it hasn't provided me the pride of ownership that I enjoyed with my old '87 5.0 or my '90 T-bird SC.

One thing, though, that will be important to me is a higher level of refinement than we have seen from Mustangs in the past. I am talking about interior fit and finish, lower wind and road noise, and a general higher level of quality than the current version. Little things like using struts to hold up the hood rather than a prop-rod and perhaps the optional availability of heated seats would be important to me.

While the Mustang is not intended to be a luxury car by any means, I think Ford could pick up some personal coupe buyers that haven't had a Ford to consider since the demise of the MN12 T-birds.

seminole_kev · January 2004

well the new Mustang looks to have an old fashion prop-rod. Not a big deal to me but I understand. It is supposedly (who knows for sure yet) going to be quietier (save exhaust noise maybe) and a little more upscale in the interior as far as quality goes.

Have to see it to believe it. Hopefull though.

akirby · January 2004

Yes, they are killing the SVT version of the Focus but they'll offer a ST version with 200 hp that should be almost as good if not better for less money. Mainstream production as opposed to limited SVT production. ST might also produce special versions of the mustang like the Bullit or Mach 1. In between the regular versions and the SVT versions.

revdrluv · January 2004

hmmm ST is the moniker Ford uses in europe for their "warmed up" products. The SVT Focus was the ST170 or something like that in europe. Maybe that means we will get an even hotter Focus like the RS next go round.

jjgittes · January 2004

I saw pics of the interior at that 'stang' website. Hmmm. I'm not so sure I can wrap my arms around this retro theme to the point of buying one. Its just, well, too retro. Kind of cold looking, perhaps even a little cheesy? (I hope not.) I'll reverve final judgment obviously until I see a few in various colors at the dealer, but I guess I've been spoiled by the japanese and europeans. The new mustang kind of looks , at least to me, a little like the old stangs, and a little like some aston martins I've seen (mostly in movies) over the years. Now, if Ford emulated the intieror of the aston, I'd probably be begging to put down a deposit. But if I wanted a mid/late 60's stang interior, I buy a classic.

ballpark · January 2004

Saw a few posts about hoping the interior fit and finish was up to par. Could say more if I had been allowed to sit in it, but from an aesthetic viewpoint it's a safe bet to say that few will cririsize. Another observation is the interior has a more "cockpit-like" look to it. Using my 99 GT as reference, the driver sits lower. Not as in the Camaro, but a degree or two more than in my GT. The tallness of the center console further adds to this impression. Speaking as one who liked the Camaro cockpit-like setup, this would be a marked improvement over the cuurent Mustang.

Akirby and others. I pose this question to your arguments:

Why would the current Mustang be immune from the ill effects on sales of a complete re-design when every other car re-design negatively impacts sales of the prior model?

If Ford offers no incentives on the SN95 and sales do not drop off (15% or more) between now and Fall I will admit I was wrong.

I am bonkers over the new Stang, but there IS a price level that would induce me to buy a Mach-1 now. I doubt that I'll see that, but the local Ford dealer does have 15 of those babies on his lot right now, and I got time on MY side. (Curiously, there was so much demand last year he sold Machs before they could even arrive at the lot.)

akirby · January 2004

I didn't mean to imply that there would be NO drop in sales - I think a fair number of enthusiasts would wait (me included). I just don't think it's a big number. 10% - 15% would be my guess. You made it sound like sales would be off by 50% or more because EVERYBODY knows there's a new mustang. At least that's what it sounded like. And yes - they'll have to offer incentives to move them just like every other car. Probably big discounts once the new ones arrive.

john_324 · January 2004

EDIT: akirby beat me to the punch, but I'm goin' ahead anyway! : )

Nobody has suggested that Ford is not going to have to discount the remaining 2004 Mustangs. Rather, we have said that sales of the current gen. Mustang will continue, even in the face of the 2005 model. Sure they won't sell like hotcakes, but there will be sales...

My point has been that there will be casual buyers that, when faced with a good discount, will be willing to buy a current one, rather than wait for the new one/deal with probable mechanical issues/get on the waiting list for what they want/etc.

fdthird · January 2004

I agree...there will be lots of folks who will be very happy to get into a Mustang at a good discount. As has been said before, there are a lot of folks who are not as nuts about cars as many of us. They will surely be aware that there is a brand new Mustang out there, but the financial benefits of getting a 2004 will be more important.

When the oval theme Taurus came out my father-in-law was one of the first in line at the dealer to get a great discount price on one of the old style...to some folks cost is the most important thing in a car purchase and those are the folks that will be driving brand new 2004 Mustangs come this summer!

revdrluv · January 2004

Allright we keep saying the same thing here so lets just stop. I never said Ford wouldn't find a way to move them off the lots. I was saying that they will have to discount the Mustang to keep selling them like they will want to. Meaning that once they are discounted, people WILL buy them, which is the exact same thing as what you people are saying.

And yes all of those people who NEVER watch the news, open up the basic home page of their internet service or pick up a newspaper will have NO IDEA that a new Mustang is coming soon. Everyone else will know, hence the reason we all think Ford will have to discount the leftover 2004's.

fdthird · January 2004

If you feel we all stole your thunder. Sorry

revdrluv · January 2004

Thunder? No no thunder here. Just wanted to let everyone know we are on the same page here and saying the same thing.

john_324 · January 2004

Okay then, lets turn our debate toward something I find odd about the 2005 :-)

What's up with the changeable gauge cluster colors? Am I the only one who thinks this is kinda an odd "feature" to have on a Mustang?? I wonder how much this questionable technology adds to the cost of the car vs. simply using one color like every other car... And who are they targeting with this?

revdrluv · January 2004

Seems to me like it must not cost a significant amount extra. Seems like a smart move actually. I know plenty of people who prefer one color dash light vs another. Why make them have to choose a whole other car company to get the color they want.

seminole_kev · January 2004

the changable lighting is an option. It is not standard on the V6 or GT from what they've said.

baggs32 · January 2004

I'd have to say they're targeting a younger crowd with the different colors. Many of those "boy-racer" Civic's you see have interior mods as well (All to make the thing LOOK like it goes fast! I just don't understand I guess.). Dash lighting is an easy and inexpensive way to customize your ride.

It's a pretty weak attempt to attract some new sales, or even showroom traffic, but it probably will work to some extent.

I actually look forward to seeing it in person though. Sometimes I just get tired of looking at the same Ford green backlights and want a change.

Red would go well with the monster that resides under the '05's hood.

brucelinc · January 2004

I believe the GTO has this, too. This sounds like one of those "surprise and delight" features that many buyers think are cool and like to show to their friends but really don't add much cost.

I admit that I kind of like stuff like this even if it is of questionable long-term value. Now if they would just get rid of that stupid prop-rod to hold the hood up.......:)

andys120 · January 2004

is IMO a part of a trend toward making vehicles with custom features. Note the many custom features available on Mini Coopers and Scions. It's a good move for Ford (and GM) to get in on a trend early(for a change).

seminole_kev · January 2004

Most likely wouldn't buy it, but would like to see it, however the thing that I already don't like about it is that the radio doesn't change with it. Just the same color (green if I remember right) no matter what the dash is set to. Not a big deal I realize, but if you want to change the lighting, you think you'd want the adjacent controls to change with it. (Yes I do realize they're just slapping in someone elses radio, but still..)

crispiegee · January 2004

Okay guys, I need your help.

Last year, I had been thinking that my next car would be a foreign brand, but now Im really torn between the 05 Mustang and the GTO.

I know the Ford guys will say, Pontiacs suck, and Pontiac guys will say the same about Ford. But try to help me with some USEFUL comments  something I can think about in my decision-making process.

From my perspective, each has strengths.

GTO Pros:
- Simple, elegant styling derived from Monaro
- Luxurious European-style interior
- Super-powerful, proven LS1 engine
- 6-speed transmission
- Great sounding exhaust
- 4-wheel independent suspension

GTO Cons:
- Considerably more expensive than the Mustang
- Simple styling also a bit bland
- Many people think its just a Grand Am
- Uncertain resale value due to limited following

Mustang Pros:
- Beefy, muscular styling that is uniquely Mustang
- Looks great in silver with white stripes
- Strong positive response among the public
- Improved interior
- Everyone knows its a Mustang

Mustang Cons:
- Center stack still looks cheesy  cheap looking radio, HVAC
- Hard-to-read retro gauges
- Questionable reliability of Ford 4.6 V8
- Significantly lower HP & torque than GMs bigger V8
- Wheezy sounding exhaust
- Only has 5-speeds vs. 6-speed in GTO (29 mpg hwy)
- Old fashioned solid axle

This is tough. I wish Ford wouldnt wait to re-issue the Mach 1. Thats probably the Mustang that I will really fall in love with. Im still not a fan of the Ford Modular V8, though.

The Mustang looks great on the outside, but it seems like the GTO is superior when you get underneath the skin (albeit for a higher price). Your opinions are welcomed.

john_324 · January 2004

I guess you guys are right...this sort of thing is the next big thing, so it makes sense (given the broad market at which the Mustang aims) that Ford would offer it. Not my cup of tea (for me, options should be things like engines or Hurst shifters), but different strokes and all that.

I'm glad its an option though...every little thing adds to the cost of a car. On the Mustang alone, that's why Ford removed the under-dash light and the passenger-side key lock...

Good point re the other lights in the car though...on my 2002, some controls (i.e. the window switches) aren't lit *at all*.

But in the 2005 and other cars, I'm glad that there's a trend toward separately-enclosed gauges...much more "sportscar" in my mind (the pre-1999 Porsche 911 setup is about as good as it's ever gotten IMO).

seminole_kev · January 2004

Well as far as some of your pros and cons of the Mustang, I think you'll just have to wait to get your hands on it, because some of your pros and cons may no longer be true.

As far as the GTO goes, great motor and the interior looks nice. Not as thrilled about the price, but that's ok. The big thing to me is it just doesn't look like what I would want a GTO to look like. I really love the 60's Pontiacs and I wish they could have gone retro like the new Mustang rather than the Chevy Lumina 2-door styling that the new GTO has.

If it were me, and I was looking at the two, I'd have to wait and check out the new Mustang, drive them back to back and then look at the content versus price. If you can wait another year, maybe a Cobra vs GTO comparison might be closer as far as price goes.

Personally, I have a special place in my heart for Pontiacs stemming from their products in the late 1960's. In particular, a 1969 Firebird that was in the family. Absolutely loved that car. However the styling of the new GTO is so bland that it really is a big time turn off inspite of the great motor under the hood.

john_324 · January 2004

Re the GTO/Mustang decision...

What reliability concerns re the 4.6 V8? Ones in taxis and patrol cars regularly go well past 100k miles with just regular servicing.

Also, the new GTO/Monaro is really just a placeholder until GM can develop one from the ground up. I'm willing to bet the second-gen one will have much better styling. Might be worth the wait...

baggs32 · January 2004

I think seminole is right. Wait until you can compare them back to back and in person. Pictures and magazine reviews never give you the whole story because you can't see or feel the actual proportions and ride from reading them. Only an all important test drive will do that.

As for the Mustang's sound, I always thought the Corvette sounded wheezy and the Mustang sounded very muscular in comparison. Maybe I just never paid enough attention but I seriously doubt it. I'm always keeping an ear out for a good sounding V8.

My wife thinks I'm crazy because I can pick out a Mustang just by the sound of it. Little does she know, but she's starting to do the same thing too. I guess I've had some good influence on her so far.

One other thing to consider is the power to weight ratio between the two. The GTO supposedly weighs something like 5700 lbs.. That's an awful lot of weight to carry around. It may handle like a truck!

baggs32 · January 2004

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0401/14/a01-35456.htm

andys120 · January 2004

it sure is no sports car at >two and a half tons.

crispiegee · January 2004

The GTO does NOT weigh "two-and-a-half tons" or anywhere close. If you can't get your facts straight, I won't consider your opinion valid.

GTO = 3,725 pounds (or about 75 pounds more than a Mustang Cobra)

2.5 tons = 5,000 pounds = ridiculous exaggeration

Anyway, the GTO does 0-60 in 5.3 and the 1/4 mile in 13.7-14.0 at 104 mph. Not a slug by any means.

Not saying I PREFER the goat, but I'd just like you guys to try to be as fair as possible when rendering your opinion.

john_324 · January 2004

Oh, gotta take issue with "wheezy sounding exhaust" as a "con" for the Mustang...wheezy sounding compared to what? Neither Camaros nor even Vettes come close to the that Mustang sound.

The Holden Monaro's exhaust does sound pretty good though, at least on par with the Mustang.

So that category should probably be a wash between the two.

revdrluv · January 2004

Yeah, I could see saying that a Porsche Boxter, or M3 has a weezy sounding exhaust, but not a Mustang GT. I am always amazed when I hear one going by at full throttle just how throaty it is.

john_324 · January 2004

Oh, gotta take issue with "wheezy sounding exhaust" as a "con" for the Mustang...wheezy sounding compared to what? Neither Camaros nor even Vettes come close to the that Mustang sound.

The Holden Monaro's exhaust does sound pretty good though, at least on par with the Mustang.

So that category should probably be a wash between the two.

andys120 · January 2004

I didn't make the 5500 lb claim, I merely picked up and rephrased it.

Mustang V8s are well known for their beautiful sound, at least from the pushrod (289/302/5.0) era
perhaps the DOHCs don't sound as nice.

baggs32 · January 2004

"If you can't get your facts straight, I won't consider your opinion valid."

Sorry, I'll try to be more perfect like you next time.

C&D says it's 3821 lbs and does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. It's right there with the Mustang even though it has 50 more horses and 50 more lb-ft of torque.

***I had the link to C&D here but Kirstie made me remove it because they host forums.***

A Mustang GT MT weighs somewhere around 3400 lbs for comparison.

***Link to HotRod mag was here showing the '05's specs but it too was deleted.***

So yes, power to weight is something you should consider. That was my point even though the numbers were wrong.

"The Holden Monaro's exhaust does sound pretty good though, at least on par with the Mustang."

That seems to be the word right now. It's going to be hard getting used to an oversized Lumina sounding like a muscle car.

lackofdave · January 2004

I've heard from reliable sources that the '05 GT will start for under $20K as was discussed in Detroit. I think that makes the GT an incredible bargain even if a "real" price is a few thousand more. What's the current GT or Mach running?

Ford Mustang (2005 and Newer)

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