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Major Engine Failure
I have a 1998 A4 Quattro. 67,000 miles. when i was driving it a couple of days ago i heard a bang and the engine stopped. the dealer says my timing belt didn't break, the oil pump works, there is oil in the car, but there was a MECHANICAL FAILURE. My engine seized up. I need a new engine. Cost = $11 grand. The car is not even worth that much!!! What should i do? isn't this a defect. I followed the maintainance schedule. how should i react, please help.
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if there is aftermarket or factory warranty left, get it repaired or replaced. you may get some adjustment from VW if you ask for it, but with 67 thousand, I would not be expecting it.
IMHO an engine should go for at least 150,000 miles with normal maintenance, but that is not an offer of warranty to anybody for anything.
it stinks. but stuff happens and then you die... hopefully not tonight, and not from this.
I really don't think you have a prayer at 67K other than perhaps some magnanimous goodwill gesture on VW's part. Warranty is up, that's the end of the ballgame.
As for coping with this most unfortunate circumstance, I think the used engine route is a good one. Car is certainly worth keeping, as it is worth very little as is.
Don't make a quick decision on this. Explore the alternatives. I'm sure you can get it fixed much muich cheaper that the prices quoted. Sounds like someone is trying to scare you and steal your car.
Does anyone know how much a used 2.8 V6 engine would cost? Thanks for the advice everyone.
this happened when I was 22 and dumb about cars. I've researched this over the years.
A) why didn't they use a helicoil kit to repair the thread?
here's my two cents regarding your audi. I wouldn't give the dealer any money to investigate especially if they are chargin you almost 2 grand to just to look at it. I would put a used engine. you can go about this two ways: engine from junkyard or get a remanufactured engine from jasper engines. junkyard engine is most likely the cheaper way. I wouldn't let the dealer do the R & R; I'm sure there are independent audi specialists out there that can R & R an engine cheaper.
At this point it doesn't much matter why it failed. If you don't have extended warranty you have to face the facts that this is your baby now, sad to say.
I'd guess you could have a used engine installed for around $3,500-$4,000, anticipating all the "extras". But I don't know the shop rate in your area and most of this work is labor. I'd guess where I am it would be maybe 25 hours + $1,500 for an engine, but you know it's been a while since I've explored these prices. I'm really only guessing and could be off.
Anyone else have more concrete info?
http://www.shokan.com/
They have everything you need. Your profile doesn't show what state you're in, but a great idea would be to follow Shifty's advice and have a shop do the job (private Audi/VW place, preferably) - contact Shokan - they ship nationwide, or if you're in NY, tow it to them and have them do the work.
I've been to their place - impressive.
I can't believe what things cost these days!
I wouldn't pay them to tear an engine apart when they know it's shot anyway.
And I would probably go the used engine route. After that, I would dump the car.
if "drives great" spins your wheels, run it until you figure you made a profit on the deal, and trade.
most junkyards will pull another one for you within something between 30 and 90 days for free if your major part fails, be sure to ask for it though.
to some extent, warranty is a feel-good extended to buyers to make them secure in their decision to buy something. always has been. but as the price goes up, it takes on a little extra meaning.
shibs100 may or may not be walking right now, but in the end, he is the one who has to decide what price he's going to pay to get the audi back on the road, and how much cuddling and goodwill he needs to justify his decision. all we can do is just offer options and stand back
Almost any engine [even imported V8] can be changed in 25 hours by an expert.
We change at least 1 per month on Lexus and Infiniti but they usually have at least 200,000 miles of use.
They seem to have a formula where they know just how much they can charge before the customer will just go with a rebuilt.
I found a used engine with 22k on it for $2,500. There is local shop that can have it installed for $1,600. I added $400 for extra parts/charges. $4,500. unless the dealer charges me out of the azz im probably going to go ahead and let them fix it. a whole lot less hassle.
thanks everyone for their advice, i'll give an update of the situation when i get it.
none of that stuff would be replaced if a crate /or/ a junkyard engine was dropped in, either. "stuff" referring to fuel pump and/or pressure regulator, engine computer. other injectors would presumably come with a full crate engine or a junkyard pull, not on a short block, and you would keep your own if the engine was rebuilt locally.
just my two cents worth. but I'd like to see 'em fix the delivery issues with the block open on your existing engine before putting another in.
Part OEM Part Price
Engine Short Block 078100103SX $3438.00
Includes: Crankshaft, Pistons, Oil Pump & Oil Pan.
Labor
Engine Replace
Complete Assembly Without Transfer of Parts B 10.5
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Or Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Complete Assembly With Transfer of Parts B 12.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel & Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Long Block B 16.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
Overhaul/Rebuild A 30.8
Includes: Disassemble & Clean Engine, Ridge Ream & Hone Cylinders. Inspect & Replace All Necessary Components, R&I Engine, Grind Valves & Tune-Up.
Now, it could have been running like a wet dog and the excessive fuel could have washed the cylinders dry and then seized them. But I can't imagine the engine taking in that much fuel while the piston and valves are working away in there at high speed. It couldn't pump it fast enough.
So this is not a correct diagnosis in my opinion.
Either the cylinders did seize from having no oil on the walls, or the car hydrolocked while being started up, after the fuel actually had time to fill up the cylinders.
I suppose it is possible that you did the damage by a partial hydrolock when you started up, and then drove the car with valves bent, etc. until it gave up. That's seems plausible.
Something seems funny here...
the only way an engine could hydrolock while under full speed would be running through a deep puddle or creek and having a huge amount of liquid sucked into the air intake...we are talking gallons per second here.
If excess fuel washed the cylinders clean, then we would find a very high reading on the dipstick.
I was just curious as to whether or not any CEL or oil warning lights came on before the engine blew. Also I would imagine in an upsetting situation like that, it woud be easy to over rev the engine in an attempt to keep it running.
I also question as to how they knew the oil pump was ok in a blown engine.
Also 11 grand for an engine? It must be the gold series engine..as in made out of solid gold.
If you put in another engine, Hope it works out for you.
I must say that I long for the good old carb and ignition points days, as I read more and more horror stories in these forums.
Good luck with what you do.
They said some valves were bent and needed to be replaced. They checked the pistons, they were OK. They also recommended replacing the water pump and timing belt while they were messing around in there
dunk, no warning lights came on when I was trying to restart it. It's possible I overevved, but I don't think I did. they told me they took off the oil pump and were able to spin it. If it didn't hydrolock, I'm not sure what caused the valves to bend.
I guess i'll go ahead, bite the bullet and let them fix it. Its really the only way I can restore value in my car. In the next couple of months, I'll scratch a little money up, trade the car in and get something else. I don't trust my car anymore, even though it will probably be set up to run great for a little while. I think i'll get the BMW I wanted in the first place.
Hydro-locking can't bend valves, at least I dont think so unless someone can explain how.
shop has some more 'splainin' left to do.
the hydro-lock diagnosis is, in this x case, apparently bogus.
Hydrolock (as opposed to just a seizure) often results in the total destruction of the rods. They are the only thing that can "give" a little. A piston isn't going to flatten and a crankshaft isn't going to bend (probably not).
On some interference engines the piston's have fly cuts and the MARGIN is only 20-30 degrees of timing [2 teeth on cam gear]rotation, the extreme pressure of hydro [gasoline or water]locking can cause the chain or belt to slip/jump enough so after/during/just before the rod bends the valves may hit the piston. 99% of the time bent valves mean timing slips.
We see lots of timing belts installed wrong [by independents or brothers in law] where timing is off 10 degrees [1 tooth].....whether they slipped after or just didn't do it correctly?]......the safety margin gets diminished.
Double whammy.........seen this on a few early Q45 [90-93] but the mileage was above 100k and the guides and tensioners were not in good shape.
I have a collection of bent rods from owners thinking their cars were boats [many with aftermarket cold air cone intake filters] and a few from independent shops not understanding to release the fuel rail pressure before changing a sidefeed injector.
55 cc of space can't accomidiate 56 cc [2 ounces of fluids]of non compressible fluids.
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng23.shtml
Also, maybe there was no hydrolock at all. The timing belt could of slipped during revving, the valves bent and then the cylinder filled with fuel afterward. That seems possible too.
So did you run through a creek, or did you turn the key in the morning and hear a CLUNK and that was it? If neither of those scenarios, you didn't hydrolock, seems to me.
If your engine truly "hydro-locked", that is, was stopped dead by liquid in the cylinders, then the rods are almost definitely bent.
RE: valves bent--it still doesn't make sense.
If the engine truly "hydro-locks" the pistons aren't moving. They can't hit the valves even if the timing belt slips from the sudden seizure of the engine.
But I understand that the hydrolocking of an engine is a dramatic and unpredictable event, so maybe in a rare case the pistons could travel enough to just catch the valves if the timing belt slips a fraction of a second before seizure. It seems like a string of unlikely co-incidences, but stranger things have happened.
You'd think, though, that the slippage of the belt would relieve the pressure in the cylinders.
So how about this? Engine starts to hydrolock--the sudden deceleration of the pistons causes the timing belt to slip, the pressure is relieved on the pistons so the rods DON'T bend, engine doesn't seize, but valves are smacked by runaway pistons?
But if the engine came into the shop locked tight, then the rods almost have to be bent, otherwise there is no explanation for the seizure other than oil starvation---which means a totally lunched engine.
I don't know if shibs100 has a manual or Tiptronic transmission. I didn't see anything mentioned in this thread.
The dealer called me again. They fixed the engine but when they put it together they found the a/c compressor was locked up. It won't turn. I need a new one. $1200. Could that have been the problem all along. I'm getting really frustrated. This is gonna cost me over 5K now. I don't know if i trust the dealership. Does what they are telling me and what happened to my car make sense?
it might keep you from starting, because the starter motor is not as powerful as the one that burns gas.
but the a/c won't hydrolock you or spin the rod bearings, the only link is through the rubber drive belt.
it would be even more peculiar if the left taillight bulb also went dark at the same time. (cue spooky theremin music.)
but it's not specifically ruled out by Murphy's Law of Not Directly Connected Stuff