2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

tstrick320 · November 2005

I agree 100%. I'm sure this forum is NOT an accurate sample of Avalon buyers and that we are much more demanding than the average buyer. Toyota has set their own bar extremely high. They routinely have 5 of the top 10 cars in quality so we tend to expect them to be flawless. (Thankfully, they aren't. Otherwise, our poor domestic brands would have been out of business long ago.)

I had 5 Toyotas (1 new, 4 used) before my current 12 year ownership of a 1993 GMC Suburban. Every one of the Toyotas were great, reliable cars. The Suburban is routinely pilloried by Consumer Reports for poor quality, and yet I'm not at all unhappy with it. I've had a number annoyances and some significant issues (5 radiators) but I'd buy one again if I needed that kind of cargo, people, and towing ability.

We should all remember that since the '05 was a completely new car we can expect the typical bugs that every manufacturer has with a new platform. We all know that the only difference between an '05 and an '06 is the serial number -- or is it? Perhaps we should be careful to tally these problems by model year so that we can all see if Toyota is addressing some of this stuff behind the scenes.

As for me, none of the "quality" issues I'm seeing here have deterred me from my plan to buy a 2006 Limited next spring. I'm confident it will be a far better vehicle than the one I've been driving -- and very happy with -- for 12 years.

captain2 · November 2005

my vehicle history not a whole lot different than yours - although any car I bought personally in the last 12 years were Nissans (for the wife and kids), my personal drivers were Suburbans, a 94', '98 and '01. Got about 15-16 mpg, and really very solid reliability for trucks I would drive 100K each. The Avalon comes because I didn't need the utility of the Suburban anymore, and wanted something that was better with gas, fun to drive, and still is as comfortable as my trucks were on the highway!

limiteddriver · November 2005

For those of you that have this, how much undercoating do you see under the car?

havalongavalon · November 2005

captain,

I don't agree that driving in sequential 'S' won't help unless you also manually change gears below '4'. When driving at a constant speed, I find that driving in 'S' and leaving it in a higher gear, 4 or 5, reduces the tendency for the transmission to hesitate between gears, that alan_s described for a constant speed of 45.

havalongavalon

captain2 · November 2005

maybe because at 45 - '4' is the gear the car wants to be in anyway and accelerating from that speed does not require a downshift. At 20 the car should probably in 2nd, but in 'S' it will still be in 4th until you punch it, at which point it will hesitate as it finds the correct gear on the downshift. Try it.

tstrick320 · November 2005

Captain2, you're the guy I want to talk to!

I'm hoping to rent an Avalon next week for a week-long trip just so I can see how it "fits" after 3-4 hours in the saddle. I've taken a 40 minute test drive and liked the car but have found that lots of cars are less comfortable on the long haul than they seem in the first half-hour.

I'm spoiled by the spaciousness and comfort of my Suburban and have found that the list of truly "full size" cars is pretty short. There are quite a few that are big on the outside (Grand Marquis, Town Car) but surprisingly chintzy with leg & head room.

The Avalon's numbers look good and felt good for my short drive. Now, a long drive or a fellow Suburban owner can tell me if I'm on the right track.

What's your take? I'm a big guy (6'3", 280lbs). How do you think I'll like the Avalon, long term?

Thanks!

fragmire · November 2005

Though I agree with you to a certain extent, I don't think there is anything wrong in demanding the best quality from Toyota -- this has been their arena. I wouldn't expect anything but the best quality from Toyota. Think of it this way: Wouldn't you be upset if you buy a 30k+ engagement ring from Tiffany only to find the diamond loosely mounted with occassional rattle and the base somewhat scratched?

Just my 2 cents.

gws · November 2005

I'm your height, but lighter... last month drove 1500 miles, much of it Interstate, in two days (11 hours and 13 hours)and found my XLS more comfortable than former Lexus GS on the same trip. I have read some forum complaints that Avalon Limited seats are less comfortable due to the cooling fan feature.

chodie · November 2005

I have the engine noise at start up on my 2006. The dealer service manager said that all of them have it. I changed to premium gas and this helped some, also got better miles per gal.. I am going to switch to Mobile 1 synthetic and see if it will help. I have an 03 tundra that has had the same problem since new. The problem is that the piston and the block are made of different materials and the coeficient of expansion is not the same. Commonally called piston slap. Toyoto wouldn't fix my tundra, but that's ok. I have 45K and it still out performs any thing on the road. We should consider a 100,000 mile warranty for helping us sleep at night.

jayvis · November 2005

So you would immediately swerve without breaking at freeway speed? THAT is ridiculous!

jayvis · November 2005

Remember that YOU test drove the car and should have evaluated the transmission response at that time. I believe this issue falls in the "learn to live with your mistake" category.

limiteddriver · November 2005

Mobile 1 did not change my noise.

captain2 · November 2005

my son is your size except 6'6" and finds the car comfortable but a little short on driver legroom. I'm 6'1 and 210 or so, have no problems - but I used to relocate the seat track on my trucks to provide more legroom. Think that you might want to investigate doing the same thing on the Av (if it is possible (and legal)) - moving the front seat back a couple of inches certainly wouldn't hurt the rear seat space much. let me know how it goes.
Suburbans got a bad rap for years for reasons I could never understand. Used to to able to take 4 kids, 3 adults, a bed in back, and all kinds of ski gear on vacation every year driving about 1200 miles straight - except for Ford's late coming Excursion no vehicle that I could do this with other than a full size van that wouldn't go in the garage. Despite my obvious love for my Avalon, those Suburbans will still be the most practical and comfortable (on the highway) vehicles I ever owned. Bad rap I guess from those tree huggers at the consumer magazines?

captain2 · November 2005

agree - Toyota should be expected to maintain a higher level of consumer satisfaction then most the other mfgrs - it is what they built that reputation on. And they should do something about some of these not so minor issues like transmissions with minds of their own!

scoti1 · November 2005

You and others may be interested in the hesitation forum here at Edmunds. Most of the discussion is about Toyota 5 spd. transmission vehicles.

"Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"

captain2 · November 2005

sounds like you could use a little time on Mr. West's driving simulator. I only hope that my first reaction is to swerve to avoid that oncoming ladder - there is certainly nothing that brakes are going to do, the thing is flying straight at me and neither me or it can possibly stop in that short a distance. Slowing down will lessen the impact speed but won't avoid anything! So I ask again, do you really want your car's computers deciding to slow steering responses when 'it sees' that ladder?
To go a step further, and this may be beyond your comprehension - but well up the list of important safety features - the accelerator especially with some HP behind it. But only if you know how to use it.

alan_s · November 2005

Jayvis: If the transmission behavior were consistent and obvious during test drives then I would agree with you. Of course during my test drives (I drove 3 different Avalons), the transmissions behaved flawlessley on each and so did mine until fairly recently. I did notice a variation in the brakes between the ones I drove though.
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) the transmission problem is intermittent. It's not "hesitation" as Toyota calls it, it is unpredictable and gets downright confused! I am going to disconnect and reconnect the battery and see if it resets the transmission program patterns to factory default, but I want the dealer to do a diagnostic code scan first, just in case something shows up. Anyone know if the diagnostic codes are reset if the battery is disconnected?
BTW, I have a relatively simple fix for the moonroof rattle over the front passenger, if anyone needs it.
Off topic, but Happy Turkey Day to everyone! (Sorry Pat, I couldn't find the Turkey forum ...)

limiteddriver · November 2005

Those of you that have done this or had it done, which direction, CW or CCW, do you turn the adjustment screw to raise the headlight? TIA

captain2 · November 2005

this is where my Av differs, I can get the transmission to pause while finding gears but generally only when flooring it from lower speeds. It is not anything that I don't know is going to happen. Wonder if VSC or Trac has anything to do with it, my Touring has neither. Be very interested to know if your attempts at 'reprogramming' your car meet with any results.
don't eat too much - your gas mileage may suffer!

ange · November 2005

Thanks for the comments. I understand the icing matter. I have not seen any air conditioning systm layout, but I thought the air would be on all of the time and heat would be blended to hold set temperature. I have had cars that permitted warm air to exit at the top and lower vents.

Next time it about 20-25F I will turn the bi-low control on and raise the hood to see if the compressor clutch is engaged. I never checked but I thought that when the air light indicator turns green the compresser is running. Will check this out.

I expected to keep my hands and feet warm at the same time.I don't like to drive with gloves. Not a big issue.
ange1

riley3 · November 2005

Are your low beams too low? I have an '05 Limited and am disappointed in the range of the HID headlights on low beam. The low beams are very bright but for a short distance with a rather sharp cutoff. I'm thinking of adjusting them up but am concerned about shining in oncoming drivers eyes. Have you had your dealer check yours for adjustment to specs? Did your adjustments help?

larryt22 · November 2005

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1341671

The article says Toyota hasn't decided which of 5-6 models to manufacture at the Lafayette Indiana plant. Says they could make 100,000 vehicles per year. Maybe it makes sense to move all Avalon production there so Georgetown can concentrate on only Camrys?

limiteddriver · November 2005

I'm going to the dealer Friday to see if they are within specs. Will report back. I think my low beams are too low.

havalongavalon · November 2005

At 20 the car should probably in 2nd, but in 'S' it will still be in 4th until you punch it, at which point it will hesitate as it finds the correct gear on the downshift. Try it.

Your may want to review your driving style, captain2. With drive-by-wire systems, avoid suddenly punching or pulsing the accelerator. Sort of the same idea as braking with ABS; you need to apply constant brake pressure--never pump the brakes. Instead, step on the gas moderately and hold it steady. This avoids confusing the control system with conflicting sensor information.

I am one of those drivers who value the Avalon's capacity for zooming first off the gate and I enjoy leaving everyone else behind. But, if I am driving at 20 and need to speed up quickly, I don't punch it, I just step on the pedal with moderate constant pressure. The engine revs up quickly and smoothly, the transmission almost always finds the right gear and the car forges forward without any hesitation issues.

If you are driving in 'S' 4 and your speed drops to 20, it should downshift on its own to a gear lower than 4 with modest gas pedal pressure. The engine RPM rarely drops below 1400 under load. If the RPM drop below that, it downshifts.

I have compared driving in 'D' vs. 'S' (left alone in 4th or 5th gear) on the same roads, with steep hills and curves and some straighter, faster stretches, and I am convinced that the transmission is smoother and makes fewer mistakes when in 'S' than in 'D'. Just don't punch it.

Try it!

havalongavalon

markhampton · November 2005

I just took delivery of the '06 Avalon I ordered a month ago. I noticed the ride was a bit more "jumpy" than the one I test drove, so I checked the tire pressure when I got home. All four tires were between 54 and 56 PSI! Can Toyota afford tire gauges?

Also, I immediately noticed the dreaded transmission flakiness. upshifts were more abrupt than I had remembered during my test drive and a couple of times the engine revved a bit between shifts. Overall, the tranny just wasn't as smooth as I had remembered. The car only had 1 mile on it when I picked it up, so I hope it's a break-in issue, and not something that will turn out to be seriously problematic.

On the bright side, the car is absolutely beautiful. The dark red is a perfect color for me -- it's been a long time since I've owned a red car (a '67 Mustang)

algee · November 2005

It did not change mine either. Between the engine noise, road noise,terrible Limited model seats,and transmission slip, I am ready to get rid of this car. Never another Toyota. I am going to tet drive the new Buick Lucerne

n0v8or · November 2005

Headlight veertical aiming instructions from the repair manual . . . .

NOTICE:
The final turn of the aiming screw(s) should be made in the clockwise direction. If the screw(s) is(are) tightened excessively, loosen and then retighten them, so that the final turn of the screw(s) is in the clockwise direction.

The headlight aim moves up when turning the aiming screw(s) clockwise, and moves down when turning the aiming screw(s) counterclockwise.

On HID headlights, both screws should be turned the identical amount in the same direction.

captain2 · November 2005

havalongavalon- this is the the whole point - sure if you are gradual on the accelerator you will experience little problems with transmission gear selection regardless of mode selector position - which is actually the way I and most folks drive most of the time - but the control systems should not require you to adapt to it! Driven many cars now that use this silly 'drive-by-wire', and have not been able to get them to do what our Avs do. There are infrequent situations that may require maximum acceleration from 20 mph or whatever - why should we have to wait for the car to make up 'its' mind?

nimimi · November 2005

Good luck in your quest for the "perfect car." But beware, it does not exist; especially clothed in any label by GM! You are in line for a lot of frustration and disappointment if Toyotas don't live up to your expectations.

gws · November 2005

'I don't punch it, I just step on the pedal with moderate constant pressure. The engine revs up quickly and smoothly, the transmission almost always finds the right gear and the car forges forward without any hesitation issues....Just don't punch it.'

Accurate and excellent advice... coupled with some defensive driving habits, drive-by-wire works satisfactorily in my experience with both the Avalon and a Lexus GS400.

baltoman · November 2005

Good luck in your quest for the "perfect car." But beware, it does not exist; especially clothed in any label by GM! You are in line for a lot of frustration and disappointment if Toyotas don't live up to your expectations

Several years ago, JD Powers rated the plants that built Toyotas the tops in North America. This year those plants weren't even on the map. GM - specifically Buick - now takes the distinction of top quality manufacturing.

When we put our minds to it, American firms can meet or exceed the quality of products made anywhere in the world.

petl · November 2005

In fact the 2005 Gold recipient is Oshawa's #2 plant (Ontatio Canada), silver went to Oshawa's #1 plant and bronze was awarded to Hamtramck MI. I agree, with your statement with the emphasis on "put our minds to it".

The "perfect car" is very subjective. What meets my needs or perceived idea of what constitutes a problem may not be the same as someone elses. Some people are more forgiving than others (particularly if they've experienced major malfunctions in a previously owned vehicle). However, Toyota does seem to be on roll.

tkevinc1 · November 2005

Just took delivery of my special order 2006 Touring. The dealership was awesome as usual (my third purchase from them). Sticker was $32,067 and when other dealers would only give a few hundred dollars off on the Touring, my purchase price was $28,900. The vehicle is light yrs ahead of the V6 Accord I traded both in design and quality. Everything appears solidly constructed and the vehicle is extremely quiet and the ride smooth. There are a few items where Toyota could have used higher quality materials but for the price this is an outstanding value. Now, if someone can tell me how to get the airbag indicator lights to go off I will be ecstatic. That orange glowing light (SIDE AIRBAG ON) is irritating. There is nothing in the manual but does anyone know a trick to make it go away?

gws · November 2005

'That orange glowing light (SIDE AIRBAG ON) is irritating. There is nothing in the manual but does anyone know a trick to make it go away?'

A tastefully small piece of electrician's black tape, perhaps?

gws · November 2005

The reports of problems are not limited to Toyota, as shown by this excerpt from the American International Automobile Dealers website..

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=32627

'The hesitation problems have been reported by owners of Lexus ES330 models made between 2002 and 2004 the Toyota Camry and Highlander and other Toyota and upscale Lexus brand models equipped with the same five-speed automatics .

'A search of NHTSA records and interviews with Consumer Reports magazine also show owners of other car makes are suffering from the same hesitation problem, including BMW's 3 Series, Ford Explorers and Escapes, and Dodge Durango 4x4.

'David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center in Connecticut, said the magazine's testers have encountered the same problems in the Audi A6 2.7T, the Audi Allroad, the Mazda6 equipped with the V-6 engine, and the Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T.

Spokespersons for those companies could not be reached for comment.

'What makes the issue perplexing is that no two models of a given car brand may have the same problem. Some owners of the makes involved say they've noticed nothing, while others will say the problem is chronic. '

For reference to Infiniti G35 and Chevrolet,see also...
http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=16&threadID=22729&messageID=528443

havalongavalon · November 2005

'What makes the issue perplexing is that no two models of a given car brand may have the same problem. Some owners of the makes involved say they've noticed nothing, while others will say the problem is chronic. '

Exactly. And not only that: When driving the same car, one driver may notice nothing, while another driver may encounter occasional problems. Example: my wife drove the Avalon yesterday and told me that she was approaching a red light that turned green before a full stop, so she stepped on the gas and at that point heard a loud clunking noise before the car advanced. She was driving in 'D'. Hmmm... This never happened to me... and I she said she didn't 'punch' it, either...

havalongavalon

limiteddriver · November 2005

Sure am glad my transmission performs without problems.

blane31 · November 2005

What is "drive-by-wire"?

n0v8or · November 2005

See
http://www.picotech.com/auto/applications/electronic_throttle_control.html
for an explanation.
In this article, however, the "advantages" are overstated and misleading. The "electronic" system is actually more complicated, has equal or more moving parts, and is more failure-prone, than a conventional throttle cable. The driving forces (pun intended) for this system are emissions and fuel economy, not simplicity.

wwest · November 2005

Intangible connection between the gas pedal and the engine throttle, software.

gws · November 2005

See...http://autonet.ca/Parts/Systems/story.cfm?story=/Parts/Systems/2005/05/10/1033945.ht- ml

limiteddriver · November 2005

Got a chance to get under the car today and found the plugs in place, ones in glove box are extras. Service manger clarified his statement, they are installed in this area at the "pre delivery center", where certain accesories are added, and not by the dealer.

captain2 · November 2005

drive-by-wire: pioneered primarily by the Germans, an ever expanding definition of how overzealously our cars can be controlled.
back in the not so old days, throttle was a simple cable that would directly open a carburetor/throttle body allowing more air (and fuel) into an engine, thereby accelerating the engine. Same thing for brakes and transmissions, except that these were controlled by hydraulic and/or mechanical pressures. Those 'direct' connections are largely becoming history as many primary functions are wired thru computers in your car so that software can now evaluate your car's attitude, engine and transmission efficiencies etc. and make whatever adjustments IT deems necessary. Cars now, purportedly, have the ability to learn, interpret intentions, and correct for at least some of those grievous erros we all make while driving.
I look at these systems with some degree of disdain because they can and do create some operational complications, can limit a car's avoidance capabilities, and do effect the ability of even a good mechanic to diagnose problems when they do occur. Witness the beating that the BMW's and MB's have taken in reliability ratings over the last several years. Superior cars, otherwise.
That said, it is also these control systems that allow our Avs the ~280hp and 25-30 mpg, in a 3600 lb.car, improved emissions, and also allows those electronic control systems such as VSC (championed heavily by the consumer mags., the politicians/lawyers, and the mfgrs.). I personally think that this is moving way too fast and that this technology, as good as it can be, needs a lot of work!

3puttmax · November 2005

That said, it is also these control systems that allow our Avs the ~280hp and 25-30 mpg, in a 3600 lb.car, improved emissions, and also allows those electronic control systems such as VSC

captain2 -

Well stated. It is this combination of high performance with good mileage, in a large, comfortable car, that triggered my purchase of the 05 Limited.

I haven't had any throttle/trans hesitation issues. As stated by someone earlier, constant low-to-middle throttle position during takeoff behaves very well. In fact, what I like best about the Avy is the strong acceleration available with mild throttle inputs.

It's certainly true that additional fine-tuning of the software is needed, especially with the cruise control resume function, which is too aggressive. Clearly we are heading down a path of ever-increasing complexity, but I think the end result is a much better car (than my 2000 Avy for instance). In this day & age, software is king - God help us get it right.

Max

blane31 · November 2005

Max, it happens that I own a 2000 Avy XLS (48K miles)and am about to trade it for a new XLS. Why? That's what my wife wants to know. She loves that car, and so do I. I guess my reasons are an irrational urge to get a new car, plus I think the new Avy is better looking. I sure don't need more horsepower, nor navigation, auto cruise, auto rainwipers, etc. I'm gonna buy the exact same car, expecting it to be the same car, but different body and color. So I'm curious: Why do you think your 06 is "much better" than your 00? Bob Lane in VA

3puttmax · November 2005

So I'm curious: Why do you think your 06 is "much better" than your 00? Bob Lane in VA

blane31 -

The 05 is much better primarily because of the 5-speed trans vs the 4-speed in the 00. Extra gear, plus much more powerful engine, makes for a whole different car. We still have the 00 Avy, but it feels kinda whimpy in comparison.

I got the Limited, so I have all the extra toys, Nav, Laser cruise, XM radio, etc. I like it all, but basically it's about the new engine and trans - that's what got me off my duff to buy the new one. Just a real pleasure to drive.

Max

jkosuge · November 2005

I had my XL for 2 months now.
I did notice that the engine noise was a bit loud and my steering wheel vibrates when I start the car. But I wasnt that bothered about it until today when my brother came visit me with his V6 03 toyota camry. So I just wanted to see if it was normal for a toyota car to vibrate so I asked him and I tried his Camry.
Well, his camry didnt vibrate at all and the engine noise was actually quieter then my XL.
Is it normal for the vibration?

donb1 · November 2005

That damn orange light! I have asked the dealer and checked on some other new cars out there and they all have that thing. Apparently it is our government looking out for us again! I have thought about the black tape as well but after 4 months I am getting used to it.

luvmyavalon · November 2005

I have been following this forum since June and many of the comments were really helpful to me when I decided to buy the new Avalon. I still check in on a regular basis and have noticed a number of people with problems here and there although most of the problems seem to be coming from Limited owners.

I have had my 2006 XLS (because of reading this forum, I switched from my original preference of the Limited to the XLS) for two months and LOVE this car! It is not only the best car I have ever owned, but a real pleasure to drive, and I haven't had any of the problems which have been coming up on this board. The engine is very quiet upon startup, the seats are very comfortable, there aren't any vibrations, rattles from the seats or moonroof, etc. The dealership where I purchased my car and its service department are top notch, and I must say that I have been nothing but impressed with my entire Toyota experience....what a great car! It was well worth the three month wait to get the blizzard pearl and it ended up that the model year turned over from the 2005 to 2006 during the wait.

fin · November 2005

Agree completely, captain2. We have gone too far, too fast, and reliability is suffering across the board. Need to s-l-o-w this electronics thing down until the errors are eliminated before the car gets to the consumer.

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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