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Comments
I had 5 Toyotas (1 new, 4 used) before my current 12 year ownership of a 1993 GMC Suburban. Every one of the Toyotas were great, reliable cars. The Suburban is routinely pilloried by Consumer Reports for poor quality, and yet I'm not at all unhappy with it. I've had a number annoyances and some significant issues (5 radiators) but I'd buy one again if I needed that kind of cargo, people, and towing ability.
We should all remember that since the '05 was a completely new car we can expect the typical bugs that every manufacturer has with a new platform. We all know that the only difference between an '05 and an '06 is the serial number -- or is it? Perhaps we should be careful to tally these problems by model year so that we can all see if Toyota is addressing some of this stuff behind the scenes.
As for me, none of the "quality" issues I'm seeing here have deterred me from my plan to buy a 2006 Limited next spring. I'm confident it will be a far better vehicle than the one I've been driving -- and very happy with -- for 12 years.
I don't agree that driving in sequential 'S' won't help unless you also manually change gears below '4'. When driving at a constant speed, I find that driving in 'S' and leaving it in a higher gear, 4 or 5, reduces the tendency for the transmission to hesitate between gears, that alan_s described for a constant speed of 45.
havalongavalon
I'm hoping to rent an Avalon next week for a week-long trip just so I can see how it "fits" after 3-4 hours in the saddle. I've taken a 40 minute test drive and liked the car but have found that lots of cars are less comfortable on the long haul than they seem in the first half-hour.
I'm spoiled by the spaciousness and comfort of my Suburban and have found that the list of truly "full size" cars is pretty short. There are quite a few that are big on the outside (Grand Marquis, Town Car) but surprisingly chintzy with leg & head room.
The Avalon's numbers look good and felt good for my short drive. Now, a long drive or a fellow Suburban owner can tell me if I'm on the right track.
What's your take? I'm a big guy (6'3", 280lbs). How do you think I'll like the Avalon, long term?
Thanks!
Just my 2 cents.
Suburbans got a bad rap for years for reasons I could never understand. Used to to able to take 4 kids, 3 adults, a bed in back, and all kinds of ski gear on vacation every year driving about 1200 miles straight - except for Ford's late coming Excursion no vehicle that I could do this with other than a full size van that wouldn't go in the garage. Despite my obvious love for my Avalon, those Suburbans will still be the most practical and comfortable (on the highway) vehicles I ever owned. Bad rap I guess from those tree huggers at the consumer magazines?
"Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"
To go a step further, and this may be beyond your comprehension - but well up the list of important safety features - the accelerator especially with some HP behind it. But only if you know how to use it.
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) the transmission problem is intermittent. It's not "hesitation" as Toyota calls it, it is unpredictable and gets downright confused! I am going to disconnect and reconnect the battery and see if it resets the transmission program patterns to factory default, but I want the dealer to do a diagnostic code scan first, just in case something shows up. Anyone know if the diagnostic codes are reset if the battery is disconnected?
BTW, I have a relatively simple fix for the moonroof rattle over the front passenger, if anyone needs it.
Off topic, but Happy Turkey Day to everyone! (Sorry Pat, I couldn't find the Turkey forum ...)
don't eat too much - your gas mileage may suffer!
Next time it about 20-25F I will turn the bi-low control on and raise the hood to see if the compressor clutch is engaged. I never checked but I thought that when the air light indicator turns green the compresser is running. Will check this out.
I expected to keep my hands and feet warm at the same time.I don't like to drive with gloves. Not a big issue.
ange1
The article says Toyota hasn't decided which of 5-6 models to manufacture at the Lafayette Indiana plant. Says they could make 100,000 vehicles per year. Maybe it makes sense to move all Avalon production there so Georgetown can concentrate on only Camrys?
Your may want to review your driving style, captain2. With drive-by-wire systems, avoid suddenly punching or pulsing the accelerator. Sort of the same idea as braking with ABS; you need to apply constant brake pressure--never pump the brakes. Instead, step on the gas moderately and hold it steady. This avoids confusing the control system with conflicting sensor information.
I am one of those drivers who value the Avalon's capacity for zooming first off the gate and I enjoy leaving everyone else behind. But, if I am driving at 20 and need to speed up quickly, I don't punch it, I just step on the pedal with moderate constant pressure. The engine revs up quickly and smoothly, the transmission almost always finds the right gear and the car forges forward without any hesitation issues.
If you are driving in 'S' 4 and your speed drops to 20, it should downshift on its own to a gear lower than 4 with modest gas pedal pressure. The engine RPM rarely drops below 1400 under load. If the RPM drop below that, it downshifts.
I have compared driving in 'D' vs. 'S' (left alone in 4th or 5th gear) on the same roads, with steep hills and curves and some straighter, faster stretches, and I am convinced that the transmission is smoother and makes fewer mistakes when in 'S' than in 'D'. Just don't punch it.
Try it!
havalongavalon
Also, I immediately noticed the dreaded transmission flakiness. upshifts were more abrupt than I had remembered during my test drive and a couple of times the engine revved a bit between shifts. Overall, the tranny just wasn't as smooth as I had remembered. The car only had 1 mile on it when I picked it up, so I hope it's a break-in issue, and not something that will turn out to be seriously problematic.
On the bright side, the car is absolutely beautiful. The dark red is a perfect color for me -- it's been a long time since I've owned a red car (a '67 Mustang)
NOTICE:
The final turn of the aiming screw(s) should be made in the clockwise direction. If the screw(s) is(are) tightened excessively, loosen and then retighten them, so that the final turn of the screw(s) is in the clockwise direction.
The headlight aim moves up when turning the aiming screw(s) clockwise, and moves down when turning the aiming screw(s) counterclockwise.
On HID headlights, both screws should be turned the identical amount in the same direction.
Accurate and excellent advice... coupled with some defensive driving habits, drive-by-wire works satisfactorily in my experience with both the Avalon and a Lexus GS400.
Several years ago, JD Powers rated the plants that built Toyotas the tops in North America. This year those plants weren't even on the map. GM - specifically Buick - now takes the distinction of top quality manufacturing.
When we put our minds to it, American firms can meet or exceed the quality of products made anywhere in the world.
The "perfect car" is very subjective. What meets my needs or perceived idea of what constitutes a problem may not be the same as someone elses. Some people are more forgiving than others (particularly if they've experienced major malfunctions in a previously owned vehicle). However, Toyota does seem to be on roll.
A tastefully small piece of electrician's black tape, perhaps?
http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=32627
'The hesitation problems have been reported by owners of Lexus ES330 models made between 2002 and 2004 the Toyota Camry and Highlander and other Toyota and upscale Lexus brand models equipped with the same five-speed automatics .
'A search of NHTSA records and interviews with Consumer Reports magazine also show owners of other car makes are suffering from the same hesitation problem, including BMW's 3 Series, Ford Explorers and Escapes, and Dodge Durango 4x4.
'David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center in Connecticut, said the magazine's testers have encountered the same problems in the Audi A6 2.7T, the Audi Allroad, the Mazda6 equipped with the V-6 engine, and the Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T.
Spokespersons for those companies could not be reached for comment.
'What makes the issue perplexing is that no two models of a given car brand may have the same problem. Some owners of the makes involved say they've noticed nothing, while others will say the problem is chronic. '
For reference to Infiniti G35 and Chevrolet,see also...
http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=16&threadID=22729&messageID=528443
'What makes the issue perplexing is that no two models of a given car brand may have the same problem. Some owners of the makes involved say they've noticed nothing, while others will say the problem is chronic. '
Exactly. And not only that: When driving the same car, one driver may notice nothing, while another driver may encounter occasional problems. Example: my wife drove the Avalon yesterday and told me that she was approaching a red light that turned green before a full stop, so she stepped on the gas and at that point heard a loud clunking noise before the car advanced. She was driving in 'D'. Hmmm... This never happened to me... and I she said she didn't 'punch' it, either...
havalongavalon
http://www.picotech.com/auto/applications/electronic_throttle_control.html
for an explanation.
In this article, however, the "advantages" are overstated and misleading. The "electronic" system is actually more complicated, has equal or more moving parts, and is more failure-prone, than a conventional throttle cable. The driving forces (pun intended) for this system are emissions and fuel economy, not simplicity.
back in the not so old days, throttle was a simple cable that would directly open a carburetor/throttle body allowing more air (and fuel) into an engine, thereby accelerating the engine. Same thing for brakes and transmissions, except that these were controlled by hydraulic and/or mechanical pressures. Those 'direct' connections are largely becoming history as many primary functions are wired thru computers in your car so that software can now evaluate your car's attitude, engine and transmission efficiencies etc. and make whatever adjustments IT deems necessary. Cars now, purportedly, have the ability to learn, interpret intentions, and correct for at least some of those grievous erros we all make while driving.
I look at these systems with some degree of disdain because they can and do create some operational complications, can limit a car's avoidance capabilities, and do effect the ability of even a good mechanic to diagnose problems when they do occur. Witness the beating that the BMW's and MB's have taken in reliability ratings over the last several years. Superior cars, otherwise.
That said, it is also these control systems that allow our Avs the ~280hp and 25-30 mpg, in a 3600 lb.car, improved emissions, and also allows those electronic control systems such as VSC (championed heavily by the consumer mags., the politicians/lawyers, and the mfgrs.). I personally think that this is moving way too fast and that this technology, as good as it can be, needs a lot of work!
captain2 -
Well stated. It is this combination of high performance with good mileage, in a large, comfortable car, that triggered my purchase of the 05 Limited.
I haven't had any throttle/trans hesitation issues. As stated by someone earlier, constant low-to-middle throttle position during takeoff behaves very well. In fact, what I like best about the Avy is the strong acceleration available with mild throttle inputs.
It's certainly true that additional fine-tuning of the software is needed, especially with the cruise control resume function, which is too aggressive. Clearly we are heading down a path of ever-increasing complexity, but I think the end result is a much better car (than my 2000 Avy for instance). In this day & age, software is king - God help us get it right.
Max
blane31 -
The 05 is much better primarily because of the 5-speed trans vs the 4-speed in the 00. Extra gear, plus much more powerful engine, makes for a whole different car. We still have the 00 Avy, but it feels kinda whimpy in comparison.
I got the Limited, so I have all the extra toys, Nav, Laser cruise, XM radio, etc. I like it all, but basically it's about the new engine and trans - that's what got me off my duff to buy the new one. Just a real pleasure to drive.
Max
I did notice that the engine noise was a bit loud and my steering wheel vibrates when I start the car. But I wasnt that bothered about it until today when my brother came visit me with his V6 03 toyota camry. So I just wanted to see if it was normal for a toyota car to vibrate so I asked him and I tried his Camry.
Well, his camry didnt vibrate at all and the engine noise was actually quieter then my XL.
Is it normal for the vibration?
I have had my 2006 XLS (because of reading this forum, I switched from my original preference of the Limited to the XLS) for two months and LOVE this car! It is not only the best car I have ever owned, but a real pleasure to drive, and I haven't had any of the problems which have been coming up on this board. The engine is very quiet upon startup, the seats are very comfortable, there aren't any vibrations, rattles from the seats or moonroof, etc. The dealership where I purchased my car and its service department are top notch, and I must say that I have been nothing but impressed with my entire Toyota experience....what a great car! It was well worth the three month wait to get the blizzard pearl and it ended up that the model year turned over from the 2005 to 2006 during the wait.