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2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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Comments

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    enjoyed your post - have a number of friends that drive the $70k+ German cars and won't keep them past warranty and have their cars continually in the shop primarily for electronic gremlins. Such is the price, I guess, for all that 'wonderful' technology that makes those brands the great driver's car they are (when they are working properly)
    If we are really into comparing the Avalon to high end vehicles, however, the LS is much closer in concept being a softer and less sporting ride than the BMW with some quality attributes that the Germans can only dream about these days. Is the Avalon an LS? No. Is it something that might be considered a reasonable alternative at about half the price. Yep.
    Would be curious to know if you were driving the 745, why not the LS instead of the Av?
  • justgreat47justgreat47 Member Posts: 100
    here's my prediction: a certain informed, knowledgeable portion of the car buying public will quickly come to realize that the advent of dbw and "smart" transmissions are not for them and there is nothing one can do to change it. the ever tightening emmissions requirments and the ever maddening addition of "features" that the manufacturers' think the public wants (i.e. "smart" transmissions) will put a premium on pre dbw cars and dumb transmissions. the hesitation and transmission woes will not go away for some drivers, unless they change their driving style.

    the only way i would buy a avalon or any other new car with dbw or a "smart" tranny would be an overnight test drive with lots of stop and go driving...this is the only way to determine if the technology and emmission mandates will interfere with your driving habits.

    one possible solution that is quietly going away: manual transmissions; the drivetrain computers don't seem to interfere as much with a manual as they do with the auto's...just some food for thought.
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    I was suspicious that there could be some deliberateness to recent personal attacks -- that some folks really wanted that discussion closed. I now see that at least the second part of my suspicions were true. If you don't like a forum or a particular thread of discussion, there is an easier solution, don't participate in it.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    I hope the same thing doesn't happen here.I posted there for a short time. You were one of the regulars. Your advice makes sense: "If you don't like a forum or a particular thread of discussion, there is an easier solution, don't participate in it." That said, it's curious why you stuck with it for so long.
    This topic is about Avalons. Let's hope it continues that way.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    That those of us making constructive comments about the engine hesitation problem, or those of us (collectively, not meaning me) truly experiencing the problem and looking for help or maybe just empathy, be careful not to respond in kind to posters who cast doubt on our truthfulness and/or honesty or deeply and ernestly held beliefs of the potential of danger or hazards of this effect.

    I too can't help but wonder if the personal attacks, "too and fro" that went on in the other thread wasn't an intentional effort to close the "book" on a significant level of adverse publicity. Maybe even by a single Toyota/Lexus employee or "shill"(advertising executive??) operating under more than one login name.

    So, please don't respond to this naysayer "baiting" and these conversations between those that wish can continue unabated.
  • notymenotyme Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for that info. :)
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Wow, what a controversey you have spawned, simply for expressing your opinion of your Avalon. Personally, I like to hear both the good and the bad. If there is no bad, then I get suspicious. So thanks for adding some balance to the discussion. Good luck on replacing it!
  • whealy53whealy53 Member Posts: 13
    I’ve got 300 miles on my 06 Avalon Limited and just came out of an 04 VW Phaeton.

    I think your comments are fair. I also have had some difficulty adjusting to the FWD from the previous RWD/AWD.

    The only comment I would add is that I really don’t believe there is such a thing as a sport sedan .. with the possible exception of the BWM M5. All the rest are just marketing hype … IMO.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    The Avalon certainly doesn't qualify as a sports sedan that is for sure. I don't think any of TOYOTA's or for that matter LEXUS's cars qualify as sports sedan.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    that ANY FWD vehicle should be referred to as a "sport's sedan", or even sporty for that matter.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Avs definitely aren't Sports Sedans, and most of us quasi seniors shouldn't even think about trying to use them as such--BUT--the other day I couldn't help myself and outran the Chrysler 300c next to me at the light. When called upon, they sure can scoot! No hesitation there!
    One thing I have wondered about is this: With two of us on board the ride is really very smooth, but with a couple of HD adults in the back seat, it will sometimes almost bottom out going over a moderate bump. Has anyone noticed this?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I've heard some complaints that the Limited's ventilated seats get uncomfortable on long trips due to the ventilation/heating hardware under the leather and odd cushioning needed to accomodate the ventilation system.

    Does anyone have experience with the seats?
    A 5 minute test drive may not be enough to determine the seat comfort.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Haven't noticed that, at least not yet. We did one long trip from our home in Port Huron to Duluth Mn. and back in the late fall. No noticeable discomfort or excessive fatigue. My wife has a back issue and would notice any problem right away. She was fine on that trip. (Ours is the XLS though)
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    I guess we can all be thankful that the world of automotive designations doesn't stop and end with your opinion.

    Mark, which trim do you have? I will be disappointed if it's the Touring as I was hoping that trim level drove a little tighter.
  • njnynjny Member Posts: 34
    I've got nearly 11,000 miles on my 05 Avalon Limited and I can honestly say these are the worst seats I have ever experienced in a new car.
    I'm a 5'11 160 lb male and use the car as my daily commuter. I didn't get to test drive a limited before I purchased but drove an XLS which seats are defintely cushioned better. You can literally feel the bumps in the seatback as well as the seating surface. I've had the seat covering replaced but that only helped the raised seams in the seat and not the actual comfort of the seat. I'd get the XLS, the vented seats aren't worth the discomfort.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Have you tried using one of those aftermarket seat pads with the lumbar supports on the back? I used one on our old Rav4 and it really helped. Those seats were not meant for long trips!(Or short ones either!)
  • 05avforum05avforum Member Posts: 25
    The driver's side door on my 05 Avalon LTD makes a loud clicking noise at each stopping point when the door opens or closes. I have not yet had a chance to take it into the dealer and was thinking about waiting until my second oil change, in about 2K miles. My questions are - Has anyone had this problem and if so, how was it repaired (i.e. did new parts need to be ordered or can something just be tightened?). Also, by waiting, am I running the risk of doing more damage? Thanks
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the Touring is 'tighter' than the other trims, and has a little more road feel - at the expense of some road noise and feeling some bumps. A compromise always made when considering a 'sports sedan'. The reason I didn't end up in a TL (or a Maxima SE) was because those cars in trying to be a 'sports sedan' and giving you higher handling limits, what you get in return is a bumpier, noisier ride, and more torque steer. But, wwest is right, you are not going to get balanced handling and elimination of things like torque steer by putting 60%+ of the weight and 250hp+ all at the front of the car. The TL, Maxima, Avalon (in any trim) - not sports sedans - although any of them will blow about anything else off the road at least until the road develops some curves. FWD does have its advantages, but vehicle dynamics not one of them! The BMW 3s and 5s continue to define the term - for whatever it really means.
  • dclee12dclee12 Member Posts: 14
    Hi All,
    Has anyone heard a "ding" noise while driving? I am thinking it might be some safety mechanism being activated, since I heard this once while I was accelerating more aggressively than usual.
  • dandldandl Member Posts: 57
    I have to say that the seats in our Limited are very comfortable. After reading that a few posters found that their Limited's seats were uncomfortable ie: "lumpy", "feels like your sitting on a bowling ball" etc., I really tried to focus in on any "odd" padding in our seats and I personally could not find anything to complain about. Hope this helps.
    Laura
  • dandldandl Member Posts: 57
    It may have been your VSC warning tone. I "activated" the light and warning tone when I deliberately tested the car in a skid on an icy spot in a parking lot after our first big snow storm :blush: When the car perceived the "skid", a warning light flashed (very briefly) under the fuel gage and a quick warning tone sounded. The interesting thing was that I never felt out of control of the car and it responded just fine. The car manual explains more about this....
    Laura
  • whealy53whealy53 Member Posts: 13
    I made a similar comment above, but I’ll reiterate it here.

    Any four door sedan really has too much girth to be considered a sport anything in my book. I’ve had a VW Phaeton, Audi A6 and seriously test driven M3 and M5. The BMW’s were probably the closest, but once you stepped back into a sports car, you realize it’s all just marketing hype.
  • manatoc5manatoc5 Member Posts: 19
    K and N Filters just announced you can order air filters for the 2005 and 2006 Avalon
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    That is if you're interested in coating your MAF/IAT sensors with oil wicked from the K&N and then the oil coating covered with all the dirt particles the K&N doesn't "filter".

    Completely removing any and all filtration will only add, at the most, 10% to the engine capability and even that only at WOT and near max engine RPM. So now put the K&N back in and you lose maybe 50% of that 10% you had with no filtration.

    So the bottom line is that using the K&N will add about 13HP to your base 268HP just prior to the transaxle upshifting. If you DIY clean the MAF/IAT every oil change then maybe it makes sense.

    If you're a boy-racer personality type and like to beat out the other guy at the traffic light then go for it.

    Yes, we will probably accept their ad money and run K&N's on our 997/GT3's at the upcoming 24 hours of Daytona but those engines are torn down and rebuilt after each race.
  • markhamptonmarkhampton Member Posts: 74
    "Would be curious to know if you were driving the 745, why not the LS instead of the Av?"

    I don't want to spend that kind of money on a car any more, whether an LS or a 745. We're saving for two kids going to college, and I'm more interested in retiring early than driving an expensive car. In short, my priorities have changed.

    When I was younger, I always wanted a high-end German car and I got my wish. It's out of my system. Now I'm more interested in cheap, comfortable, reliable transportation. The Avalon fit the bill pretty well for me.
  • markhamptonmarkhampton Member Posts: 74
    "also it has been proved here its faster than 745 and 645 for ur info"

    You might be right. I never did any scientific timing on the 745i, but I always thought it was a little slower than BMW claimed. Especially at 5k feet where I do my daily driving.

    The Avalon is 800lbs lighter, and that could make up the difference for a less powerful engine and a 5-speed. With better rubber, the Avalon might well be as fast, or faster than an '02 745i -- so long as you're going straight, and you don't want to go further than, say, a quarter mile :).

    But seriously, I'm not going to quibble over a tenth of a second. It just doesn't matter to me.
  • algeealgee Member Posts: 78
    35K
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    $35K seems a mite high for a used 06 LTD, but you're in the business and could shed more light on my guesstimate. From what I read in these forums, selling prices for new ones range from $28K to $32K reasonably well equipped, depending where in the country you're located. I would think wholesale values on a used one would be lower than that. Could be difficult finding a buyer at that high a price. I cannot for the life of me figure why the problems he says he's having can't be made right.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    think mackabee is just calling a man's bluff, certainly beginning to look like the car doesn't exist - somebody with an agenda?
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    :confuse: Didn't Pat the Host tell us to knock off this kind of talk?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Pat the Host sure did.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Will somebody please tell me what I said was wrong this time? :confuse:
    Seems this business of "you're not supposed to say that" is being taken to extremes!
    Also, if memory serves Pat, didn't you rule that we should email you if we object to something another person says, and NOT say so publicly??
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    35K sure sounds high for what is essentially an used Avalon. It is a known fact that the minute you drive the car off the dealer's lot, you will lose 10 to 15% of the car's value. Given that you have driven the car for few months and put about 5000 miles on the odometer, 35K sound extremely high and nobody in their right mind will pay that much when you can buy a brand new Avalon for as much or less than that. If you really want to "Dump" the car then you certainly wouldn't ask 35K for it.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We need to talk about the Avalon. We need to not talk about each other and we need to not talk about discussion management. And we need to not talk about anything else that's disruptive and off-topic.

    EMAIL me if you have comments to make about what I am saying. Further posts that include any of these things will be removed without notice.
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    FYI, my reply was not to your post. :)
  • notasnowcarnotasnowcar Member Posts: 4
    not being able to turn it off. I live in the New England. This car will leave you high and dry in a Blizzard. My problem with not being able to turn it off is that, when the car just gets some momentum, the Trac-cntl activates and shuts your pedal off. There was one incident where by the time i got moving, it turned off in the middle of an intersection with a truck coming toward my side. It felt like an eternity before the system recovered and i got out of the way. Toyota has taken away too much control from the Driver. I would love it if they bought the car back.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I thought traction control was a safety feature that maximized the traction available under slippery conditions. Rather than not moving at all, the car proceeds as quickly as it can without the wheels spinning. Please let me know if this is not how it functions. I would much prefer to have traction control than ABS. ABS equipped vehicles have longer stopping distances in ice and snow conditions (contrary to what most believe).
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    grew up and learned to drive in NE and remember well how important it was to maintain speed to be able to get thru drifts, up hills, and those snow banks the plows will leave at cross streets. your problem is not really with Toyota per se (although they should provide a means to deactivate things like TRAC and VSC) but with this technology that is becoming so popular on today's cars. The Avalon is one of many cars out there that now has these kind of problems AND expect it to get worse! Glad to hear that the car decided to give you some throttle back before that truck hit you!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Please post where it is documented that ABS cars have longer stopping distances on ice.
  • mem4mem4 Member Posts: 52
    I tried the traction control on Thanksgiving with 3-4" of unplowed snow on the side roads. I went up a hill that had been tough to get up with my 4x4 Tundra. The Traction Control kept the car moving, prevented the wheels from spinning and let me keep going at 20-25 MPH. I just put my foot on the gas and the car kept moving, I never felt the Traction Control remove power.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It's possible that it can remove power, but it's supposed to be when there is no traction available. If there is no traction, power wouldn't move the car anyway. The wheels would smply be spinning pointlessly.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Info on ABS systems is plentiful just by Googling "ABS BRAKING SYSTEMS".
    Here's a clip from a Transport Canada website (one of the first ones listed) that talks about stopping distances:

    "Is the stopping distance shorter with ABS?

    No! From early commercials, it may have looked like you could stop on a dime. That instantaneous stop is not realistic. When braking on dry or wet roads your stopping distance will be about the same as with conventional brakes.

    You should allow for a longer stopping distance with ABS than for conventional brakes when driving on gravel, slush, ice, and snow. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of this low traction road surface covering, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.

    A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer."
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Can't help but wonder:
    -if notasnowcar gets broadsided by that truck, and the reason is arguably because his car shut down due to 'safety' system intervention.
    - or we can not avoid an accident because a stability control system shut things down.
    - or as happened several years back (and I assume continues to happen), children get injured because of airbags.
    etc. etc.
    Doesn't the manufacturer of the vehicles with these systems have some liability even if these systems were functioning as they should? Probably a big ole can of worms, but maybe one that Toyota (and the rest of the industry) should open?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    So, skidding with locked brakes on a ice-covered road is a safety advantage?
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Similar info on traction control systems is also plentiful through Google.
    Here's a clip from one of the many articles on this subject:

    " TRACTION CONTROL

    Definition: An enhancement of an existing ABS system that prevents wheel spin while accelerating on wet or slick surfaces. It uses the same wheel speed sensors to monitor wheel speed during acceleration, but requires some additional control solenoids and a pump to apply braking pressure to control wheel spin. The traction control system brakes the drive wheel that's starting to spin to shift torque to the opposite drive wheel that still has traction. Most traction control systems only operate at speeds up to about 30 mph. Additional control strategies that some traction control systems use to limit wheel spin include reducing the throttle opening, upshifting the transmission, retarding spark timing and deactivating fuel injectors."

    A word of caution about ABS, VSC, and Traction Control.
    These systems are generally great, but don't expect miracles in certain conditions--especially on snow or ice.
    Many drivers place ultimate faith that they will be saved from every conceivable condition with these systems.
    Not quite so!!
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Thanks for this information. Many people suffer from a misconception about ABS. Some mags will even test ABS on/off and show much shorter dry pavement stopping distances for ABS on. How they do this is a mystery as it does not normally work this way. ABS keeps you straighter, but not necessarily shorter. Snow and other winter conditions are unique problems as you have described. Very helpful. :)
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Jaxs1, It is important to do some homework before asking questions like that one. Do the Google thing first.
    ANTI LOCK braking systems help vehicles to be more controllable in a skid--ie, maintain a straight line instead of slewing or spinning, or being able to maintain some steering control whilst in a skid. A VERY definite safety advantage!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    ABS, anti-lock braking, is capable opf allowing you to maintain directional control of the vehicle during severe braking where otherwise the front, stearing wheels would cease to rotate and that would result in loss of stearing control.

    Back in 1992 when I bought my first Lexus, a new 1992 LS400, I quickly learned to turn Trac off each and every time I started the car. By applying the rear brakes to alleviate wheelspin whilc simultaneously fully dethrottling the engine it left me dead in the water if far too many hazardous circumstances.

    By 2000 Trac firmware had evolved wherein engine dethrottling was delayed a few hundred milliseconds to give the driver time to react and feather the throttle in order to "ease" forward.

    Because of the greater potential danger from loss of traction on a FWD vehicle the firmware will still instantly dethrottle the engine.

    Presumiably the dethrottling in both cases is to prevent brake rotor over-heating and sunsequent warpage.

    Somewhere in our future I suspect, hope, that ABS will be coupled to the VSC's yaw sensor and stearing wheel position sensor such that ABS does not activate unless the vehicle fails to follow directional commands during severe braking.

    The new AWD GS and IS models already use that method to quickly remove engine drive torque, leading or lagging, from the front wheels if directional control is threatened.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Since I was not the one that brought it up, the original poster could have said where he got the information in the original post especially since there is conflicting information on the subject. Another person said other tests showed ABS giving shorter distance on dry pavement.
    ABS can control brakes individually to compensate for whichever wheels have the most braking force available. You would need 4 brake pedals to do this with your foot.
  • notasnowcarnotasnowcar Member Posts: 4
    First, the problem is not w/stopping. Having grown up with rear wheel drive cars(I'm 40). You learn techniques that get you thru NE snow. To clearify, the problem is with the system timing out. If you're not moving within a specific amount of time, the pedal shuts off. This leaves you 1. stuck in a parking space on a level surface with a snow bank in front of you.(several tries to get out). 2. trying to get into you're driveway and having the car shut off when youve almost made it in. (several tries)
    I agree that Trac-cntl is great in regular driving, but sometimes you have to smoke the tires to thru the obsticles.
    My complaint is not having the option to turn it off.
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