2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

jlsexton · October 2007

This sounds like a Don't Bother Us. Was this the car store or the REP. There is obviously something that tells the system the tank is full and to calculate the MPG or is it the display that wipes out. People have to realize that if they don't make noise they will be ignored, don't give up, break their chops if you have to, every day if necessary. If it's the car store, call the REP, if it's the REP go higher, get their refusal in writing and if need be go to an independent and have it diagnosed and then go to small claims if they won't reimburse you, never, ever give up. They make too much damn money from us as is and the car stores get reimbursed for the warranty, if it's not enough thats their fault not yours. Does anyone really know HOW MUCH a vehicle really costs to manufacture and ship, I'll bet the profit margin is 25%.

tjc78 · October 2007

This has happened in my '06 XLS as well. If the car is parked on a slight hill the computer will sometimes interpret that as a change in the tank volume, resetting the gauge as if you just filled the tank. Honestly, the FE meter should not reset when you fill the tank, there should be a manual reset like on my Grandfather's Grand Marquis. What if you are on a long trip that uses more than one tank of fuel? I know you can always do it the old fashioned way but that's not cool!

johndjr · October 2007

The first time it happened, it fit your scenario. It was on a fairly steep angle. I figured it had thought the tank was empty and had been refilled. However, since then it has occurred on flat parking lots.
And I agree with you. My Volvo you had to reset it yourself after a fill up.
Haven't decided yet which is the best method, having to manually do it or it doing it itself. Being lazy and trying to be precise is a problem.
Tomorrow I take it in for the transmission upgrade. I'll talk to them some more about this little problem. I'll not get bent out of shape about it either way.

lnt · October 2007

Concerning MPG resetting - I have had this happen to me several times, also. I have noticed that usually it happens when I have parked on an incline. How about you? I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

jlsexton · October 2007

Good idea, never, ever get bent out of shape.

mackabee · October 2007

"Does anyone really know HOW MUCH a vehicle really costs to manufacture and ship, I'll bet the profit margin is 25%."

You're probably right. They do have to pay the designers and engineers lots of money though. And the guys that do the blueprints..well Toyota does most of their design by CAD which reduces costs but they do have a heck of a team of engineers. JL have you considered leasing versus buying? If you trade after three or four years and don't drive more than 12=15k miles per year you should consider it.

Mackabee

tjc78 · October 2007

love leasing... but only do 3 years so the car is in warranty the whole time (bumper to bumper) and you won't need tires, brakes etc.

jlsexton · October 2007

I remember a friend of mine who purchased a GM product with an 18% discount through a family member working got them.

As far as leasing, having a frugal upbringing and nowhere to write it off I simply do not find it economically worthwhile. If you want an expensive vehicle that you really can't afford or have a way to write it off it's a good idea, other than that it is not, check with Consumers Reports or Edmunds which is the better way. My company expected a 21% profit margin, no matter what, I imagine the car companies expect more. My Avalon is 15 months old with 6000 miles.

captain2 · October 2007

25% way way low I believe, most manufactured goods (not just cars) cost 1/2 of sticker in terms of direct materials and labor, and that number also includes an allowance for warranty costs. Is Toyota doubling their money - perhaps, and let's hope so as they continue to expand their presence in this country, and pay more and more of our taxes directly and/or indirectly (thru their employees).

jlsexton · October 2007

I was refering to PROFIT margin............

captain2 · October 2007

if you can accept the 50% cost of manufacture then doesn't that leave an equal amount (50%) for profit - a gross profit margin of 100%?

jlsexton · October 2007

Manufacturing is only the first part. There are a multitude of hidden costs that I'm sure would run up the price, that is why I said previously no one knows the actual cost and believe me I've tried over the years, invoice is a joke but the best we can do. I bought my wife's Mazda for $500 under invoice and I'm sure they made a large profit. Even the Xplan I have through Ford is not even close to the true cost. I do not like being dictated to and Toyota is following the same downhill demise of American manufacturers as in, if you don't buy it someone else, one salesman told me we don't have to advertise, our care sell themselves, might be a little bit of truth in that statement, but arrogance comes before the fall, ask Chrysler & GM & Ford. I personally have a great Avalon, no troubles so far BUT I will check out the Accord & the C class next time. Maybe by that time Buick and Lincoln will not try to force me to buy a V8 for their top end.

captain2 · October 2007

no I said, direct manufacturing costs (the materials and labor) used specifically to produce a car. Turns out to be very easy to define but a real bear to figure out. Even somebody like Cerebus that might conceivably sell off everything that Chrysler owns won't know if they are making any money at it!

jlsexton · October 2007

SPLAIN, direct manufacturing costs ??????????????

fin · October 2007

Here's a quick, and simple, explanation of costs that might go with making and selling a Toyota: A direct cost is the tire, the windshield, etc. The labor to assemble and ship is also direct. Employment taxes are direct. The plant utility bill is probably direct but may be indirect as it varies somewhat with production.

Pure indirect would be the utility bill and taxes at the Toyota Hq located in another state. Also travel expenses by managers, rental fees... you get the picture.

Can anybody ever figure out what it costs to make a car? It all depends on the definitions you use. Did Toyota (or GM) take in and keep more than it spent? Probably. But where do you allocate retirement pay, health benefits for retirees and depreciation? Per car? Per model? Per year total production? Interesting......

ctl · October 2007

I guess it is no surprise that most people don't get to see the break down. I remember seeing one before, for say a typical 20K vehicle, about 60% would cover the "cost", then add layers of R&D, advertisement, distribution, etc. etc., the profile margin of a sub 20K vehicle (civic, corolla) is actually VERY thin (2K?). That 60% of parts, labor, factory, capital (etc.) can probably be defined as "direct manufacturing cost".

Part of the reason a GM/Ford is not that attrative... those extra 2-3K legacy cost per car has to come from somewhere... I would say mostly parts. No thanks.

limiteddriver · October 2007

I've done a search and looked in the OM but can't find an answer. On a 2005 Limited with the push button start system, how do you turn off the Maintenance Required ( oil change ) light. A page number would be great. TIA

mackabee · October 2007

Change the oil?
Mack

mackabee · October 2007

So how often do you buy a new one? every four years? Do you trade or sell outright? Why pay for the whole pie if you're only going to eat a couple of slices?

Mackabee

limiteddriver · October 2007

The OM says the light means it's time,I guess based on mileage, to change the oil.

johndjr · October 2007

I'm saying this from memory (which aint so good anymore!)
with foot off of brake, turn on the ignition and select the odometer (not A or

.
Turn off the ignition.
Then depress and hold in the odometer selection button, while holding in, turn on the ignition and hold until the milage indicated gos to all ------. That's it. turn off the ignition and the light should be out when you start it next time.
If this doesn't do it, I'll have to go outside and get the book, it is in there. The page number 159 jumps into my empty mind.
Hope this helps.

jlsexton · October 2007

When I was younger I held on to cars as I drove about 600 a miles per week or further, in 3 years I had almost 100,000, the car was for commuting to Manhattan. Now retired I put about 5000 miles on one and buy nicer vehicles. I will probably sell this after it's paid off, I never trade, too much of a loss. Perhaps leasing would work but to me it's like renting a car for 3 years, it is not yours and has no residual value and according to Consumers Reports is not a good idea. Luckily I can afford to buy what I want, I looked at a lot of cars but this was the best value. The DTS Caddilac is comparable in size but way over the Limiteds price. I do like the new Beemer 3 series as it is bigger and also the C Class Benz. G-D only knows what comes next.

mackabee · October 2007

Sure, it's like renting but you pay less for it. If you buy and keep for four years you are basically doing the same thing. Renting it for four years but paying higher rent.

Mackabee

Ps. If you go with a Bimmer next time, lease it and the maintenance is included for the duration of the lease. All the maintenance not just the oil changes.

mackabee · October 2007

Ok, get ready for this because it's expensive. I talked to my parts manager and we looked it up in the parts catalog since this is not an accessory so it would be considered a repair or replacement part. The dash piece alone is $1200.00, each piece for the door panels is $900.00, I stopped there. Didn't even look at the center console or steering wheel. This is parts only. Labor is extra. Looks like the plood is not just a strip of plastic but it's part of the whole dash assembly as is the center console. You'll probably do better trading it.

Mackabee

limiteddriver · October 2007

Thanks for the info.

jlsexton · October 2007

I don't know if you can get all the parts but JC Whitney and I'm sure several other places sell real wood overlays that I'm assuming merely lay over the original plastic wood. There is a website for a firsttoyota.com that might help, Mack, thanks for looking up all that stuff up for him. It would have been cheaper to purchase a color with the right interior and have it painted at those prices.

mackabee · October 2007

I'm sure there are wood kits available that fit right over the factory stuff. However you have to consider the surfaces that spring open when pushing on them like the cup holder and storage flip up doors. Depending on the thickness of the overlay it may interfere with the operation. The steering wheel issue is a different matter altogether specially now that Bluetooth is available.
Mack

p.s. there's some aftermarket kits available for around $200.00 for the dash pieces and center console. $99 for the door switch covers. Didn't see any for the door panels.
link title

retired7 · October 2007

Up here in the Great NW, don't see hardly any Toyota TV advertisements for Avalon model. See just about every other Toyota model advertised on TV. Is Avalon that bad or is it the "car sells itself" philosophy? I would like to have them "make me feel proud" feeling and see it on TV once in a while! I paid enuf for mine to include a few in the sticker price! This one should stir the pot...

NW Blizzard

mackabee · October 2007

They will show an Avalon ad once in a while. The big push is for the volume seller Camry and Corolla. However, the car does pretty much sell itself.

Mackabee

tjc78 · October 2007

Here in South Jersey they never advertise it either. Why would they? Its not like there is ever a special lease or financing on them :surprise:

jlsexton · October 2007

So thats your real purpose, stirring this pot ?

jlsexton · October 2007

Sorry to hear that. Avalon is not perfect but if you put a Limited against a comparable vehicle as in a Lincoln Continental, Caddilac DTS, Buick Lucerne it is a good value and great gas mileage, are you just busting chops or was it that they just would not deal ???

mackabee · October 2007

Remember some people consider me a member of the dark side.

Mack

captain2 · October 2007

you look like a Toyota salesman should - one of the reasons that I never got along with guys like you - that annoying breathing!

lnt · October 2007

Thanks for your time doing the research. Yes, that is a little more than I figured. I thought probably a couple of grand, though. Maybe I'll wait until they change the seats in them-hopefully- they will put a little more padding in them next time and then I'll trade.

mackabee · October 2007

You're welcome!

retired7 · October 2007

Since 2005, have new Avy sales been more, less or about what Toyota expected?

mackabee · October 2007

Compared to 2006 calendar year we are down about 12,000 units this year. Overall the industry is down and the projections are going to fall short this year for every manufacturer. Here's a link to September sales by model. Includes Lexus and Scion. link title

captain2 · October 2007

thanks for the link - seem to remember that the Avalon was selling at a 'paltry' 3000 units/month back in its lame duck year 2004. Then the new one comes out, Toyota finally has a 'fast' sedan, and 'zap' sales exploded to more like 10,000 per month, the reason why the Avalon was in very short supply thru the summer of 2005. You Toyota guys must have been in hog heaven - a vehicle that you didn't have argue price? It is still somewhat impressive to me that the Avalon continues to sell at even 6000/month, indicating that perhaps it is being sold to somebody other than the 'old folks'. Have you noticed any demographic change in your 'average' Avalon shopper? I would assume also that the new Camry/ES has hurt Avalon numbers a bit?

mackabee · October 2007

When the 05 came out it did bring out a lot of the younger buyers. I was seeing young singles and couples in their mid to late 20's buying Avalons! Now with the Camry Se I'm seeing it in reverse. A lot of empty nesters are buying the SE V6 with all the goodies. I remember the first 07 SE I sold to one of my repeat customers. First Camry I sold her was an 1998 XLE V6. She later traded that in on a 2003 Corolla LE. A big step down. She was retiring from the Post Office so she wanted something more economical. Last year the unthinkable happened and she lost her husband to cancer. She came in and traded the Corolla on a new Camry. Her son told her to look at the SE which I showed her one and it was love at first site. The guys at work were ribbing me that I sold a grandmother a sport sedan. She is very happy with it. I believe we have three 07 Avalons left. Two XLS and one Limited. Customers buying the 08 for the Bluetooth and six speed tranny.
Mackabee

wwest · November 2007

Mack,

I've long been curious as to why there isn't a Toyota version of the RWD and/or R/AWD Lexus IS series.

The Camry and Avalon, Toyota's only products in this "class", are both FWD. Many of us "older folk" would look more than interestingly at a RWD in this class, and I would think many younger folks would be atracted to the extra "sportiness" of a RWD.

Any thoughts..??

jlsexton · November 2007

And their problem is what, does gray hair mean you no longer are alive, must one conform to their or society's standards. If my friend Charlie at 6/4 was not such a woose we'd both be riding new Yamaha's but he chickened out taking a bike riding class when he hurt his ankle. good for the grandma............

jlsexton · November 2007

For all of you who might be as frustrated as I was with this stupid unit here is some possible help, I responded with a multitude of questions that I probably should have asked my salesperson but didn't out of trust. At least the drug companies post the side affects..........If it helps please let me know.

On Wed, 10/31/07, Remotes And Keys wrote:

From: Remotes And Keys
Subject: Re:help SENT10/4/07
To: shooter_9mm
Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2007, 5:38 PM

Sorry for the delayed response. Yes, we do carry a remote start system that can be operated with your OEM keyless entry transmitter. This system costs $84.99 and must be installed by an alarm shop in your area. If you would like to order this system, or simply have more questions, please call 1-866-539-6362 during normal business hours (Eastern Time.)

Thank you for your patience,
-Josh
Customer Service
RemotesAndKeys.com

mackabee · November 2007

JL are you trying to add a remote start or do you have one already and need a remote fob?
Mack

mackabee · November 2007

I have no clue as to why they don't bring a rear wheel drive vehicle under the Toyota brand. I guess they figure they'll leave it to Lexus. :confuse:
Mack

andrejak · November 2007

I had my 05 Limited at the dealership for a week while they got all the parts to the TSB for transmission hesitation. Just got a call from the dealership yesterday saying they finished the TSB, but the car is still not right, so they are going to replace the transmission under warranty. Anybody else have the TSB done and still having problems? I didn't get a lot of details on the message they left me, so I am guessing they took it out for a test drive and realized it still had hesitation issues. Good news is I have a new 07 Camry LE as a loaner, not a bad car all in all while I wait for my Avalon to get repaired.

johndjr · November 2007

I had mine done on the 24th of last month. It had not been very bad, just surprising when it did its' thing.
So far it has operated just fine.
I had called them and they called me back when they had all of the parts required. I got to the shop at 8:15 and at 1:30 it was finished, washed etc.
Just hope it doesn't surprise me any more.

jlsexton · November 2007

Toyota's quality fell according to Consumer Reports on some vehicles, no Avalons were cited but I do feel annoyed that anyone had tranny trouble is this day & age, 21st. Centuary and they can't get a tranny right.

captain2 · November 2007

had tranny trouble is this day & age, 21st. Centuary and they can't get a tranny right.
I don't believe there has been a single instance of 'tranny' trouble in the 5 speed unit in the 05+ Avalons unlike the 6 speed unit in the 07 Camry which did report some limited mechanical issues. The problem with the Avalon tranny (05 to 07) is entirely software related and you can thank Toyota's emphasis on FE and safety for that. It is becoming a common probelm with these 'intelligent' transmission as hesitations and/or delays in gear engagements are epidemic - and getting worse. Whether Toyota should have done a better job worrying about some 'user friendliness' into their transmission control software - not THAT is probably true. And welcome to the 21st century, where we are starting to lose control of our own cars. It will get worse.
PS - my 05 Avalon now has over 60k on it, it has never been back to the dealer other than to get the steering checked and an oil leak fixed, both conditions that did not effect the car's reliability and both relatively early on. Transmission slippage or hesitation? certainly not in the last 50k or more but then again it took me about 10k to understand how the car WANTS me to drive it. A difficult concept, IMO, that many apparently have a problem with.

richa502 · November 2007

Does anyone know how to program the factory installed remote engine starter? I have one on my 06 Avalon and want to change the run time from 10 minutes to 15 or 20 minutes. My dealer charges $47 dollars to do it, but I was wondering if it's done with a scan tool of some sort, or by changing a setting through the dash or under the dash somehow.

Thanks for any help.

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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