Welcome Toyota Tundra - III

meredith · November 1999

This topic is a continuation of Topic 866....

Welcome, Toyota Tundra - II. Please continue
these discussions here.

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host

kanton · November 1999

I can agree with you guys about the build quality. I can see there might be some problems down the road, but that is the case with all vehicles regardless of make. My father owned a 1986 standard 4x4 Toyota pickup, that thing ran strong and never gave him any kind of problems. He just sold it last week. He bought a new Tacoma at the end of last year and could not be happier. With his experiences with Toyota's was the reason main reason why I was seriously considering them. But on the flip side, I had a '90 Chevy fullsize 350 etc... When I sold it it had 121,000 miles on it and I never once had a problem. I know the new Chevy's can only be better. Also, I don't plan on having the truck for 10 years, by then there will be so many new improvements that these new vehicles will be obsolete. Like I said before, to each is own!

leew · November 1999

Hey Guys, I know this has been just about discussed to death, but I was wondering if anybody had any word on why some of us are getting better mileage than others with their Tundra. I seem to get about 13.5 with mixed driving. 60 surface 40 hiway. I'm at about 4500 miles. Tire pressure is right on and I drive like an old lady - with only the occasional bolt...

Any new word on milage.

Thanks

atoyot · November 1999

Just a thought, but it could have something to do with what type of gas you use. In certain major cities we have been forced by the EPA to use a special smog fighting gas that has been proven to provide lower gas mileage. We have it here in Houston and I hate it. Got to love the EPA, as they made us take lead out, though there was no proof that it caused lead poisoning. Now with the new gas it has a known carcinogenic introduced into it. It hasn't be proven to cause cancer from it being in the gas, but who wants to take the risk as obviously they didn't want the risk with the lead. Whoops, sorry for the rant. I'll go back to lurking.

cliffy1 · November 1999

The Tundra has a "dumb" 4WD system. Your Grand Cherokee has a limited slip center differential which will send power front to rear as needed. It does NOT have limited slip diffs on the front or rear axle which means it does not isolate power as well as you think. The quadratrac is good on road but is not really preferred for off road use.

The Tundra has a transfer case which sends exactly 50% of the power front and rear. It is not as advanced of a system but much less prone to problems down the road. I have been using this type of a system for years on various Toyota trucks and have never once been stuck. I do use it off road some during hunting season and I tow a boat. Even on very slippery and steep ramps I am able to gain traction when in 4 wheel drive.

Let me know if you need a definition of open versus limited slip differentials.

leew · November 1999

atoyot - You know, I forgot about the oxygenated gas. Now that I think about it, I believe we do have that crap here in Oregon. I plan to confirm on my next fill up.

eusasc · November 1999

We have that here in the DFW area. I forgot all about that. I figure between that and my heavy foot it accounts for my lousy milage. After all the people asking about gas milage I have started calculating mine, and so far it's been right at 14 all city driving. I also got around 13.5 carrying 2 motorcycles in the back all pretty much hi-way driving. I'm curious, does anyone know if that gas reduces your HP as well?

606zpx · November 1999

I liked the statements you made above, but I am curious about how open differentials work. For example, if you have the truck in 2wd on a dirt road and floor the gas, does it spin both wheels or just one wheel. While in 2wd and on a slippery boat ramp which wheel will spin, I figured when it is limited slip, it will limit slip, or spin, of the tire with least traction.

I guess Iam not entirely sure how limited slip would actually benefit the 4wd, although I can imagine how a locking diff would. Ive also heard that limited slip diffs, depending on their construction, can wear out.

Thanks
606

cliffy1 · November 1999

Good questions. The issue of differential type is a huge source of confusion in my customers and coworkers. An open differential biases power to the wheel with the least amount of resistance (read least traction). That means that if your right tire is on dry pavement and the left in on ice, power will be routed to the left tire.

Limited slip differentials have a series of clutches encased in a heavy liquid which hardens when agitated. This locks the clutches and transfers power to the wheel that is not slipping. You will hear and feel a thud as the power is transferred.

The downside to LSD is that they require more maintenance and don't last as long as an open differential. Toyota does not offer a LSD on their trucks because they have yet to find one that will last beyond 120K miles. That is not an acceptable standard for Toyota.

Toyota does offer a locking differential on the Tacoma. You manually push a button and a worm gear is sent into your rear differential. This locks the left and right side together. Never turn a corner like this.

As far as need for any of this on a 4 wheel drive, I have never needed any of that. I don't do anything real hard core, but I do drive in snow, mud, rocks and tow a boat. If I lack traction in the rear end, I engage the 4WD system. I have always been able to get traction that way.

kanton · November 1999

here are calculations to figure speed, needed axle ratio to get the original back after tire size increase, and rpms with different size tires

1. axle ratio (effective with bigger tires)
(original tire diameter/new tire diameter)x original axle ratio= effective ratio
example (27"/32.5")X 3.50 ratio= 2.91 effective ratio

2. rpm and speed
(original tire diameter/new tire diameter)X rpm@mph = new rpm@mph
example for 55 mph (27"/32.5") X 2400rpm = 1985 rpm@55mph with new tires

3. speedometer
(new tire diameter/original tire diameter) X indicated speed = actual speed with new tires
example (32.5"/27") X 55 mph = 66.2 mph actual speed with new tires

4. needed axle ratio to get original ratio back after bigger tires
(new tire diameter/original tire diameter) X original axle ratio = required axle ratio
example (32.5"/27") X 3.50 original axle ratio = 4.20 required axle ratio

Hope these calculations work for y'all.

reed4 · November 1999

Appreciate the enlightenment on the 4WD system. My Tacoma (2WD 5-speed 4 banger) certainly must have the open differental as I have many times experienced excessive 1 wheel burnouts yanking a 4-jetski trailer out of steep, slippery launch ramps. Is the Tundra TRD package offered with the locking diff like the Tacoma TRD package?

Thanks Again......

cliffy1 · November 1999

Nope and I have no idea why not. I asked a guy from TRD that very question this week and he had no answer for me. He did tell me that there are no plans to put it on later either.

BTW, those little Tacos can be very squirrelly. I nearly lost it last winter while driving one in only 2 inches of snow. Try putting some weight over the rear axle next time.

reed4 · November 1999

Thanks! I have much confidence in the Tundra's 4WD system. Was just curious about the mechanical details. Not really convinced I actually need 4WD as my only needs for it include dealing with poorly maintained launch ramps at the Colorado River, maybe 4-5 trips to Mammoth Mountain and the occasional blast through the fire roads near my home which my Tacoma does as long as I don't pretend it is a 4WD. Have you taken your Tundra driving in deep sandy riverbeds? Made that mistake ONCE with 2WD.

jyarnold · November 1999

I've done some hard-core off road with My Tundra in CO, stuff like steep, stone laiden washed out roads that would easily bottom out my previous '96 4Runner. At the end of these roads, mostly climbing areas, you see very few vehicles that could make it yet I'm constantly amazed at how this truck pulls thru. I think Articulation comes into play here along with traction as the hardest spots have alot to do with powering up while turning without bottoming out. If your pinned on a rock no slip type will get you out of that one.

Cliffy? Any news on aftermarket slips for the Tun yet? Not that I feel need one but if folks wanna choice that may be the only way with Toyotas limited configurations.

cliffy1 · November 1999

I haven't driven in sand yet and probably never will. I live in Virginia and would only get into sand if I went shore fishing in NC and I have no plans to do that. It sounds to me like you would use 4WD more often than most my customers. Out here, the typical truck is engaged less then 5 times a year. Mine gets used during hunting season (now) and on one particularly bad ramp on the Potomac river.

4 or 5 trips to Mammoth tells me you have too much free time. Get the 4WD and never worry about it. The satisfaction of knowing you can go nearly anywhere is worth the extra money and gas in my opinion.

cliffy1 · November 1999

I had the guys from TRD at the dealership this week. They told me they have no plans to offer any in the foreseeable future. You may want to check aftermarket if you feel the need.

artp · November 1999

I have the 4wd V8 Tundra. I was driving a few days ago when we had our first rains here. As you know the road is extra slick due to the oil floating off the road.

I was on a side street trying to pull out onto a busy highway. I knew I would lose traction and pitch the truck sideways if I tried to accelerate hard. I put the truck in 4wd, got on it hard and didn't slip one bit, I quickly switched back to 2wd.

I know you're not supposed to use 4wd on pavement as you can break the gears. Do you think what i did was acceptable?

Also on my commute, I drive over a winding, steep mountain pass. In the rain, In 2wd, in any truck, the rear is prone to lose traction and swing around when accelerating up hill. I guess what I'm asking is, is it ok to use 4wd on wet, slippery pavement?

z71bill · November 1999

I could be wrong about this, it has been almost 2 years since I looked at the landcruiser, but I think it had the locking differential as an option. I am sure it will last more than 120K. I don't understand why Toyota did not just use the locker off of the landcruiser for the Tundra -

I have owned/seen many trucks (cars too) with limited slip diffs and they lasted more than 120K. Toyota could build one if they wanted to. The real question is why they didn't want to.

z71bill · November 1999

I could be wrong about this, it has been almost 2 years since I looked at the landcruiser, but I think it had the locking differential as an option. I am sure it will last more than 120K. I don't understand why Toyota did not just use the locker off of the landcruiser for the Tundra -

I have owned/seen many trucks (cars too) with limited slip diffs and they lasted more than 120K. Toyota could build one if they wanted to. The real question is why they didn't want to.

cliffy1 · November 1999

Brief forays into 4WD in specific situations are fine. You made a good decision. The reason not to drive in 4WD on pavement is because you have the front and rear axle turning at exactly the same speed. When you turn a corner, they need to be able to turn at different speeds or be able to slip around a corner. On dry pavement, you can't slip and therefore you hop and shudder around. On wet pavement, you slip just enough to not bind the driveline.

As far as mountain driving, I'm not sure I would make a habit of it especially if you exceed 50 MPH. If your tires do have traction and you don't slip around a corner, it may cause you to hop which can lead to a loss of control. Use common sense and pay attention to what the truck is doing.

You will notice that the owner's manual tells you to drive one day a month in 4WD. This is to redistribute the grease in the bearings and will prolong hub life. Wait for a rainy day or a day you don't need to turn to do this.

We are closing now and I will be hunting for the next few days. See ya'll on Wednesday.

cliffy1 · November 1999

The LC did have available locker front and rear before '98 and rear only for 98 and 99. they couldn't put the locker onto and independent front suspension. As mentioned earlier, no one has told me why they haven't put a locker onto the Tundra (see previous posts on this).

For a discourse on the 2000 LC 4 wheel drive system, see me on Wednesday as it is far too complex for a guy planning a hunt tomorrow.

Congratulations on the limited slips. I'm just telling you what an engineering geek from Toyota told me a year ago.

reed4 · November 1999

jyarnold,
Don't think I'll be offroad like your adventures, but it's great to know the Tundra will handle those situations with ease!

cliffy1
I live only 4 "easy" hours from Mammoth. Half my trips there are payoffs to my son for another semester of good grades!

artp
Thanks for mentioning the need for "on highway" traction that only 4WD will provide. I can think of many situations when I thought "if only". Think of it as a hidden saftey feature.

reed4 · November 1999

Are you running the factory tires or do you have a more aggressive offroad tire?

buzzman2 · November 1999

Nice to see some intellegent Tundra discussions.

Curios... Does Cliffy1 work at a Toyota dealer?

Will be back.....

motor106 · November 1999

Been to 5 dealers with ? limited slip r.end. All had 2wd on lot. They all seem confused except for one who gave correct ans. I ordered 4x4 ltd acess loaded . 2 to 4 mos del time. After reading your post reguarding 2wd vs 4wd I'm so glad I insisted on 4x4.

jyarnold · November 1999

Reed4; I'm running the stock TRD tires; BF goodrich, and they're loosing rubber quick.

mijtak; I looked 4ever for a good Tundra discussion board and only found this and built one of my own: www.homejack.com/tundra. The mileage you're getting only after 350 miles sounds great. It is the V8 right? I'm still doing around 15mpg with over 2k miles but Colorado has the oxegenated gas and higher altitudes cut down MPG too along with 3k' of elevation every business day.

Cliffy; not interested in changing anything about the 4WD system, so far it rocks, but I thought you may know of aftermarket diffs for the Tundra for those interested. Hope you had a good hunt.

kanton · November 1999

When I was looking at buying my new truck I compared milage estimates of both the Silverado and Tundra. They were very comprable. At any rate I bought the Silverado with the 5.3L motor. Now looking at just size of the motor, one would expect the iForce to get better milage, but my 5.3L motor is getting much better mileage than your Tundra's which surprises me since the Tundra has much newer technology (IE dual over-head cams, four valves per cylinder, etc...), is smaller in size, and the smaller motor. In my Silverado, I get a solid 16 mpg around town driving in 3rd gear. On the freeway in overdrive last time I got 23 mpg (300 miles at 1/2 tank; 36 gal tank), which damn good for a V8. I have a 1/2 ton, ex-cab, short box, 4x4, 5.3L, auto trans. I am just surprised that the Tundra is not getting better milage!!

lexmark · November 1999

Looking for Tundra Club Sites? Try:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/members.htm

http://www.Tundratoys.com/readers.html

Good luck.

rwellbaum2 · November 1999

Some of the Tundra owners are getting poor milage with the new EPA mandated fuel. I'm getting 18.2 mpg on the highway. Your the first v-8 truck owner, of any brand that I've heard of, getting 23mpg. That's better than a lot of the v-6 compact trucks. If I were you, I'd tell chevy about it. It's truly phenomenal!

rphron · November 1999

I just filled up with the Oxygenated crap here in Utah County, Utah. I had about 50/50 hwy-city and got 15MPG even. I will let you know after this tank empties. I waited till almost on the (E), 21 gallons, to get a more accurate history of what my average gas mileage would be. Happy so far but it eats a bit more than my 4cyl Honda Accord ?!?

eoster · November 1999

Don't go by the gauge, go by the gallons that it takes to refill the tank. That will probably shave a few mpg off your results. I've gotten between 15.9 mpg as a low to 17.8 mpg as a best. I don't drive like a granny but I don't leave a lot of rubber on the road.

kanton · November 1999

I have a 26 g tank, not a 36, opps. Another thing, I live in California and we have the worst gas in the nation! The last time I filled the tank I put in 23 gls. I had 460 miles on the odometer this is 20 mpg. This was a combination of freeway and city. Im sure if I ran the tank dry (another 3 gals) I would have had over 500 miles, even if I only had 500 miles that would still be 19.2 mpg for all types of driving.

rwellbaum2 · November 1999

I'm also in Cali @ Travis AFB. My neighbor complains his 99 Silverado is getting @14 mpg with mixed driving. He has the 2WD version. My 4x4 Tundra doesn't do much better with 16.4 mixed and 18.2 highway.

cliffy1 · November 1999

Boy there are a lot of posts on this board. I came back for a day and need to get caught up. We can't hunt on Sundays in the Old Dominion of Virginia.

Buzzman2- Yes, I do work at a Toyota Dealership. I am the Internet Sales Director here and am also an avid truck nut. I don't want to violate the house rules about soliciting for business but I will be happy to answer any questions you have. My profile has my direct e-mail address.

Reed4- Sounds like you live near my old stomping grounds in SoCal. I used to tear up the hills and mountains around Redlands in an '86 Toyota truck. Mammoth is awesome but I haven't skied since moving East.

Motor106- Glad to hear you ordered one. I ordered mine over a month ago. It has been sitting at the port for 3 weeks now on a train that they can't offload due to a derailment. Four months is extreme. What part of the country do you live in? I may be able to get you more info on availability in your area. Contact me privately at the e-mail on my profile.

I'll be checking back today but will be out Monday and Tuesday. The deer are plotting their escape now.

bsagara · November 1999

Cliffy, or anyone...I have a SR5 Access 4x4 without fender flares..I'm getting a lot of spray onto the front door and mirrors...is there an aftermarket or factory flare that can be installed on the SR5? Any help would be appreciated..thanks.

Bert

rwellbaum2 · November 1999

I see in the Siverado topic that your having a lot of trouble with wind noise and a Y2K software problem with your oil reset light. I can't believe that the dealer told you there was no problem and sent you away with a defectively mounted windshield. At high speed your windshield could collapse. That is a safety related item. You should contact the better business bureau.

cliffy1 · November 1999

It can be done but I don't know what it would cost. Those flares are not what Toyota calls an accessory. Accessory items are fairly reasonably priced. The flares on the Tundra are individual parts and would need to be ordered through the parts department. Being a Sunday, my parts department is closed so I can't ask them today. I have no idea what it would cost but my guess is over $600 for the set.

cwirth · November 1999

I have aftermarket fender flares on my SR5. I purchased them at www.sportwing.com. I had them paint to match but I don't think they do this any longer. They come in black and if you want them painted you will have to take them to a local body shop. They fit perfectly and look great.

cliffy1 · November 1999

I am having difficulty in getting profiles. I click on the persons name and a new window is opened at the log in site. How do I get profile information on other participants?

z71bill · November 1999

the Tundra has so much ground clearance? I have seen posts that claim it has 11.6" and Edmunds shows the same value. I would think the low point of most trucks is the bottom of the rear differential. Even with the 265/70 tires - you would have about 30.5/2= 15.25 " to the midpoint of the rear wheel. The rear axle and differential would only be 3.65" below the center point of the rear wheel. This would mean the rear differential is only 7.3 " in diameter. Which would be kind of wimpy for a truck. Does the Tundra really have this much clearance or is it measured some other way?

rwellbaum2 · November 1999

I know what you mean. The only way to raise the rear axle is larger diameter tires. I've looked under the Tundra extensively. The rear diff is more compact than chev but it's still about 10" in diameter. The rest of the undercarraige has significantly more clearance than any domestic. Using my calibrated Eyeball I'd guess the distance from the ground to the bottom of the diff is @ 10" but not 11.6". I'll crawl under it and give you an accurate measure in a few days unless someone else posts the numbers.

artp · November 1999

Your inability to get profiles is probably in your version of your web browser, not Edmunds site. What version web browser do you use?

edr3 · November 1999

The chrome on my rear bumper is starting to peel! I've only had the truck for a couple of weeks & 500 miles and the chrome is startin to peel off. So far it's only a small strip along the upper edge where it is bends before being covered by the plastic cover. It showed up after a good wash job and revealed a yellowish brass color where the chomes come off.
I've had great luck with my Toy dealer in the past so I'm hoping to get it fixed (rechomed) or replaced. Anyone have experience with rechoming Toy bumpers? Or, should I just hold firm and ask for a new bumper for my nearly new truck?
Thanks for any ideas.

kente · November 1999

Sounds like you should and probably will get a whole new bumper. If you have trouble with the dealer call or send email directly to Toyota. I am sure that they will take care of it.

meredith · November 1999

Your profile may be "PUBLIC" or "PRIVATE" at YOUR option....

in the latter case no one may view your profile without HOST privileges. (You may be secret from each other, but the SHADOW knows....)

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host

kanton · November 1999

My wind noise is not coming from the windshield, it is coming from the rear ex-cab quarter windows. I have no problems what so ever with the windshield. The latches on the rear windows of the Silverado are plastic and they don't allow the window to close very snugly against the rest of the window frame. Wind noise is only present at freeway speeds, and the seal is tight enough to keep all water out. It is really not a problem, but rather a nuisance.

As for the oil reset light, apparently if you wait long enough after reseting the computer, the indicator light will flash. I don't know?

dupka · November 1999

Does anybody own the Limited 4x4 access cab with TRD off -road package (bilstein shocks and specially tune suspension). I am curious to find out how the truck rides on and off road with this
option . also does it make sense to get the bedliner and cover ? //Peter

mikemiller · November 1999

I have 5078 miles on my Limited 4x4 Access with the TRD package. I simply love the truck. Since I bought the truck on 9/24 and already have 5078 miles on it, you can tell I drive it a lot! I test drove Tundras with and without the TRD package. The TRD package makes the truck handle better. It is really just a suspension upgrade. I found that with the TRD the highway ride is the same except the truck doesn't lean as much in curves. Off road, it just handles better. It's a win-win situation and well worth the $90 bucks. I highly recommend you go test drive both! Then let us know your opinion. When in doubt, go test drive!

Your bedliner / cover question is confusing. The bedliner is to protect the bed from scratches (more on that in a minute) while the tonneanu cover is to streamline your bed and to protect valuables (although soft ones really don't do that). There may also be issues with an over the rail bedliner and a cover, depending on the cover.

My truck had the Toyota under the rail bedliner installed at the distributor. I didn't bother having the dealer take it out. It has totally sanded off the paint on my bed. I'll be taking it out soon, and have a spray on bedliner installed. IMHO bedliners do way more damage to your truck that without one, they just hide all the damage. I wrote a long post on my experiences with bedliners in the Welcome Toyota Tundra - II topic #822 post #271.

kanton · November 1999

if you are thinking about putting a bedliner in your truck, do yourself a favor and invest in a spray in liner. the liner is permanent, does not move around, does not scratch the bed, does not allow h2o underneath it, etc... I can go on and on about the advantages of them. the only diadvantage is that it cannot be removed, but why would someone want to remove it? I have one on my silverado and it looks great! I have the Line-x (the strongest and least gobby looking) over the rail and could not be any happier; it came out perfect, straight as a rail.

Anyway, save your money on the option, and buy a spray in liner. You won't regret it.

mikemiller · November 1999

While catching up on this topic I was really worried about some of the average MPG posts a while back. It sounded to me like some folks may not be calculating their MPG correctly. Since we all use this topic to see how we are doing against other Tundras, I wanted to make sure we are all comparing apples to apples.
It seemed to me that some folks where just running their tanks down to near empty and then dividing their miles since last fill up by 26! If this is true, no wonder we see those 12 mpg readings show up sometimes!

To calc the mpg you need to start by filling up your tank and resetting one of your trip odo's to zero. There are lots of variables in filling up, (vehicle tilted to one side, different gas pump nozzles shutting off differently, etc..) but try to be consistent. Then on your next fill up, Toyota recommends not letting your tank fall below ¼ full, take the number of miles on your trip odometer and divide them by the gallons it takes to fill it up. For example, 255.1 miles divided by 15.027 gallons = 16.976 mpg. That's it. Just remember to reset your trip odometer before you pull out, and your good to go again.

After 5078 miles, my 4x4 Access Cab Limited with TRD and a hitch, I'm varying from a low of 14.075 to a high of 16.976, just depending on where I'm driving and the way I'm driving. I live in the mountains so even when I'm on the highway it's a lot of slowing down and speeding up. I also still can't stop drag racing at every red light. By the way, I haven't been beaten yet. You should have seen the look on two guys' faces when I beat their Mustang Saturday night. I beat them to 55 by quite a few car lengths. They tried, but when the Tundra engine reaches 3000 RPM I leave'em behind! Must have been a V6??

mikemiller · November 1999

I agree totally. A bedliner is the worst thing you can do to your trucks bed. Spray on is the way to go.

Sorry, I had the old topic # wrong. Here's the correct numbers.
See: Welcome Toyota Tundra - II topic #866 post #271.

This is my real life experiences with the horrors of bedliners and the pleasures of spray on liners.

Welcome Toyota Tundra - III

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