2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

lnt · August 2005

Looks like we bought our cars from the same dealer. The next time I go in for an oil change I was planning on asking about the rattle in the rear. Did their work on the strut fix the problem? If so, then I can suggest to them what the problem might be. I think they are tired of me talking about what I hear on Edmunds forums, though. By the way, are your fog lights loose and did they tell you Toyota wouldn't fix them, too? That's what they told me. Said it was too expensive.

zekeman1 · August 2005

js1 -
Me thinks your dealer would be giggling all the way to the bank. He's ripping you off! The antenna costs (at Circuit City if it's not on sale) $39. What's a bracket for? Is this an aftermarket XM kit? If so, they're practically giving them away in order to get new subscribers. Antenna location other than on a trunk lid has been talked about ALOT on this board - I believe it's a no brainer! Roof/dashmount/package deck - it works fine (in addition to the lousy place Toyota wants to slap it).
Go see Best Buy or Circuit City or half a dozen other major electronics outfits and walk away from your dealer...unless you want the OEM kit. If you want that, shop around - prices are competitive amongst dealers or internet based Toyota parts places. Once you get it, enjoy it - I have one in each of my cars & love them, especially when you travel.
zekeman1

gbinplano · August 2005

Actually, my fogs are OK. When you take the Avalon in, just tell your service advisor about the rattle. They fixed both of mine without further info from me. They did not even want to go on a test drive with me to hear the rattle they were so sure of the cause, and they were right both times! Mostly good folks at Richardson. I live not far from Toyota of Plano, but I blew them off due to their extremely poor attitude towards customers and service of my previous Camry.

BTW, how do you teach Dyslexia???

Greg

tkaz · August 2005

So, any serious word on the 2007's? If so, when and any word on what will be new? I probably don't want to wait that long to order a LTD though. I like what I see in the 2005/2006.

ange · August 2005

rwb2; I would not buy another navigtion system. Reasons; It has a lot of mistakes. I was on the Penna Turnpike and it labeled it I-70 instead of I-76. When you request 'Go Home' it replys, gasoline stations listed, or parks listed. I have had to request as high as 6-8 times before the proper response is given. The directions are sometimes a long way around. If you are on main highways it is ok, otherwise it wants to take you a long way out of a straight line route. Sometimes it take 2-4 miles of driving before the GPS note appears. I can take different routes and it still takes 2-4 miles to show up. I still have my Atlas in the trunk. There are areas where the navagation does not have a GPS signal. One area is south of Atlantic City NJ. When the GPS shut down and I was waiting for the commands and it stopped, I did not notice, I took a wrong turn and wasted about 15 miles. The navigation on a new 2006 Lexus acted the same.It is a nice toy but you need to keep in mind it is not 100% dependable.I have talked to the Toyota dealer service manager about the navigation system and he stated he had to do some checking to see if their is anything that can be done. This is hard to take as there are may units out there and, no one has had questions.I have accepted the unit as is and watch the pointer go down the lines on the screen as I drive. ange1

fragmire · August 2005

Ange1, couple things to consider.

1. There is a large section of Penn Turnpike where I-70 and I-76 overlap, so perhaps the Nav wasn't really wrong in that case.

2. The "Go Home" issue, are you referring to answering the "Yes" portion? If so, you need to wait until the prompt completes ("Are you sure you want a route to home?") and the dialog prompt shows up on the screen before pressing the voice command button and saying yes.

3. GPS is not meant to be 100% reliable. We don't have military grade equipment in this car, so sometimes the error can be as much as 50 feet. As a result, the system may think that you're at a somewhat different location when it takes you through a seemly longer route. Also keep in mind, though, the straight, simple route may not always be the fastest. Here in DC, especially, the straight and simple route is often the slowest due to speed limit constraint. The Nav does recognize the difference in speed limit for different segments of the roads, so perhaps it was guiding you through a route with shorter overall time.

toyotaken · August 2005

Also, keep in mind that if you're in areas that it can not get a signal from at least 3 satelites, it goes to "dead reckoning" mode. This takes into account the direction and speed of travel when you last had a signal and it "estimates" where you are until it gets the signal again. It shows the "GPS" indicator when it is getting the signal, and that goes out when it doesn't. So if you change direction or speed when in dead reckoning mode, it may not be able to tell.

Hope this helps.

Ken

evancds · August 2005

ange,
I was on the PA turnpike recently and notice the same thing. I scrolled farther down the map and saw the name listed as I-70/I-76. Apparently the turnpike is aka I-70 between certain exits. I also have trouble with the voice recognition i.e. wgen windows are down, or there is background noise and usually just hit the DEST button and click on home. As for the route selection, you can choose between several after you input your destintation, and also specify roads to avoid (heavy traffic areas, or toll roads). While the system may not always direct you to the fastest routes, i think it does a fairly adequate job but it is not infallible and it is always a good idea to keep a map handy like you do incase you cannot receive the gps signal somewhere.

On a side note: Does anyone have wiring diagrams for the JBL system with nav? And has anyone had experience removing the rearseats?

thanks,
Evan

blakejo1 · August 2005

Has anyone found a way to make the seats in the ltd enjoyable to sit on for long periods of time? They do not fit our bodies like other cars do. I would like to buy the ltd but right now the seats are a major problem. Has anyone tried to have the leather redone to get rid of the gather in the leather that hits the back in the wrong spot? I would spend the money for after market leather if I could keep the seat extender and ventilation. The xls seats are much better but you lose a lot of nice features.

3puttmax · August 2005

You should buy the Toyota XM tuner kit, part no. SPOPT546-07050. It cost me $266.60 from a local dealer's parts dept. That will usually come with a fairly large antenna, the one Toyota wants to put on your trunk. Buy separately, from CC or Best Buy, the Terk XMICRO antenna and the Terk XMSP SM dual to single splitter. With all this stuff, go to your friendly neighborhood car audio guy and have him install it.

You can put the XM antenna on the roof, above the rear window in center, or on trunk in center, or, as I did, inside the car, on top of dash, at right end of defroster vents, just under the windshield. The Terk antenna is very small and virtually unnoticable in that spot. There is probably a slight penalty in reception with that location, but I've found it to be plenty good enough.

The point of getting the Toyota XM kit is so that it will integrate with your existing JBL radio and the Navigator screen display. Unfortunately, the display chops off the song title & artist to 10 characters - this can be annoying.

Look at post 5279 for picture of small Terk antenna.

Max

blakejo1 · August 2005

Has anyone found a way to make the seats in the ltd enjoyable to sit on for long periods of time? They do not fit our bodies like other cars do. I would like to buy the ltd but right now the seats are a major problem. Has anyone tried to have the leather redone to get rid of the gather in the leather that hits the back in the wrong spot? I would spend the money for after market leather if I could keep the seat extender and ventilation. The xls seats are much better but you lose a lot of nice features.

jordan7 · August 2005

i also had a very bad pleat on the driver's seat where your back would hit the seat. i had the dealer order a new back cover which he installed in about two hours. while the seat is not great, it is far better than before. you must insist that the dealer fix your problem at any cost (none to you).

fragmire · August 2005

The service rep just told me that the problem I'm having is actually not related to the strut tower. Instead, the molding clips were not removed during the installation of the rear window (whatever that means). He has placed an order for the parts, and someone will need to remove the rear window and remount it (not sure why). I guess I will find out next week when the parts get here and the repair is done.

fragmire · August 2005

For those of you who had problems with loose fog lights, how loose were they exactly? The service rep at my dealership claims that there is nothing wrong with the fog lights. When I try to move them with my finger, they each can be moved about 1/3". Am I being picky, or is this the problem you guys had that the dealers fixed?

4439 · August 2005

I can not get my Speech Command System to work. I'm following the directions located on page 116 of the Nav Manual. When I push the button, located on the steering wheel, I get no response. There is no beep and no indicator on the screen. I've pushed it repeatedly and have also held it in for approx 5 seconds. Any suggestions before I take it in to the dealer?

Thanks in advance.

fragmire · August 2005

Make sure that you have gone through the "I Agree" screen. In my experience, getting past that screen is necessary for any of the commands to work.

mhepple · August 2005

We were told the car was held by the service honcho for an extra day (no loaner but not a problem) so a Toyota Rep visiting today could view & review.

I base this on a call with the service rep (who I called at 4:45 pm as he hadn't called "this afternoon" as he promised at 8 AM today.)

In order, here's what I have been told (I'll get the car back tomorrow):

1) RV Mirror bezel rattle: Could be replicated & there was a burr on the plastic anchor tabs. Corrected & driver side checked. We'll see.

2) Warped-mis-aligned glovebox: mine was worse than most, but they claim to have looked at 9 Avalons and all had a gap on the left side. They adjusted it as best they could. Attributed to the spring being on the right side, so the left side wasn't pulling in fully. Without the spring, gaps were fine. In my thoughts, design/cost saving flaw: springs needed on both sides.

3) Loose Driver Side Fog Lamp. We agree the lens is loose. It's assembled correctly. Will begrudingly order a new one, but in my mind a design flaw. They checked the Avalons they had, and it was the same way on several. Potential big problem for Toyota, as lights are "safety related" unlike glove cover fit & finish or rattles.

4) Parcel shelf area rattle: could not be replicated, but they installed felt at the contact areas for the shelf and the strut covers. I'll keep an eye on this one as others have said the strut tower placement needed to be re-aligned along with a resultant rear wheel alignment (I'll ignore comments about whacking them with a hammer.)

5) Exhaust pipes: They agree that the driver's side is around 3/4 inch lower than the pass side relative to the bumper. Nothing they can do. A cosmetic design flaw: I pointed out that if it were a fender 3/4 inch out of alignment, it would be addressed.

6) Trans. Escalated to the Toyota Corp rep (as were all the other isues/problems I hope as we lost a car for a day and had to juggle schedules) with hopefully a software upgrade in 2 months.

Am I happy? No. I'll likely never do business with this dealer again. I've bought 5 cars from a great salesman. Too bad he doesn't run service: he'd never insult me pointing out the difference between an A pillar and a B pillar (over a pass side rear view mirror rattle!) or refuse to go over problems with the the car together. Literally, it was driven to a parking area and the Service Manager refused to have it brought back to review together.

lgigante · August 2005

I had the same problem. I called Toyota Tech Support and between us found out NOT to hold the button down too long. Just stab at it and you should hear the beep. I think the manual's instructions need to be re-written. Hope it works for you.
Larry

deaner1 · August 2005

Just came back from the dealership with the same problem. They also quoted me that the condition was normal. They checked three other cars on the lot and found the same loose fog lights. I have read other posts that the dealership replaced the lights and cured the problem. Don't know what to say. I don't feel that you're being picky. I too have concerns. Another problem is the exhaust pipes are not aligned. Again the service rep checked three other cars on the lot and said they were the same as mine. To them I guess they consider this mis-alignment normal.

happy2bhere · August 2005

Thanks Greg. I'll definitely check that site out. If it's as good as you say, you're a lifesaver!

Jeff

havalongavalon · August 2005

mhepple,

Sorry to hear about these flaws and also such poor treatment by a Toyota Service Manager. Shame. I'd be equally unhappy under these circumstances.

On your point 5) "Exhaust pipes: They agree that the driver's side is around 3/4 inch lower than the pass side relative to the bumper. Nothing they can do." Actually, there is something they can do tomorrow, since the misalignment is vertical. No special tools, it just requires a rubber hammer... Each pipe hangs from a stiff rubber piece that connects to a finger-like steel support that is bolted or welded to the underside of the car. In my car, a similar (though not so large) misalignment was corrected by a serviceman by bending the finger-like steel support upward, yes with a hammer. This raised the driver side exhaust pipe by about 3/8" and there is maybe space for a little more bending if needed. If this is not enough, possibly the passenger side pipe could be lowered a bit by bending the metal support downward. If you Search this Discussion, there were a number of posts back in March or April on this issue.

I'm also sorry to see that this design flaw propagated through at least 15,628 Avalons (I'm assuming this is your car serial No.?) given the early discovery and plenty discussions we already had on it.

Best wishes,

havalongavalon

fragmire · August 2005

Okay. I have some more detail on the rattling problem in my car after speaking to the service rep in person. Apparently, the window stops were not properly removed when they installed the rear windshield, so those + vibration from road is the cause behind the noise I'm hearing. What they plan to do is to remove the stops and reinstall the windshield. The part that needs to be ordered is the black molding that goes around the glass to seal it -- they didn't want to reuse the molding. I guess I'm happy because this isn't as serious as an improperly mounted strut tower, but at the same time, I can't help wondering: why weren't those stops removed? It seems that the KY plant does have some serious quality control issue.

happy2bhere · August 2005

The transmission is baffling. Whenever I slow down or come to a stop, as I apply the brake, the car seems to want to speed up and then it drops into a lower gear.

Don't count on anything being done. I took my '05 in with complaints of the same phenomenon and they said that it was "the computer learning my driving habits". Talk about total bunk!!! Actually, I think what is happening is the computer recognizes the transmission is downshifting, which requires a higher engine RPM to maintain the same speed, but the computer is overcompensating by calling for a slightly higher RPM than what is required, thus giving you the sensation of speeding up, or lunging forward!!! I believe that enough discussion about this could prompt Toyota to do something about it...could be a simple firmware upgrade to the computer. The transmission in a $35000 car should not be doing this.

Jeff

havalongavalon · August 2005

"It seems that the KY plant does have some serious quality control issue."

fragmire, I agree.

For a few weeks when I opened or closed the driver's door, I heard increasingly loud, squaky noises coming from the springs that hold the door at half-open or full-open positions. Yesterday I finally realized that the two 10 mm hex head bolts that hold this spring assembly onto the door, had come quite loose. I tightened the bolts and this cured the excess noise.

Now, soon after I took delivery in March I had noticed another loose bolt in the driver door frame. You can see 3 very large bolts that I believe may hold the dashboard onto the body of the car. One of these bolts was very loose, so I tightened it then.

It would seem as if an assembly plant operator (or robot?) was asleep on the job when my car was assembled last January in Kentucky.

Disappointing. And alarming, because who knows what other assembly steps were incorrectly completed? What may come loose next?

havalongavalon

fragmire · August 2005

havalongavalon, I totally agree. The fear of what might not be done correctly was the exact reason why I sold my last car. I think that if the situation doesn't improve with Toyota, my next car will probably not be a Toyota. As for my Limited, I'll try to get everything I find fixed and hopefully drive it for 10 years.

billygator · August 2005

I never even planned to look at the Avalon, but checked one out on a lark while I thought I was deciding between the Maxima and TL. Took delivery of my new Limited about 10 days ago, and I'm generally a happy camper. After having read kudos and complaints in this forum for the last month, I'm pleased to say that the only fit and finish problem I seem to have is the loose fog light phenomenon.

I am still learning about the NavSys (my first), and I am generally happy with having splurged, except for the @#$% "I agree" screen, and the woefully out of date data. I would expect better living in a major metro (Atlanta). Anyone know when an update will be available? I plan to complain to my dealer if I have to pay full boat for the first one.

I hoped to get XM, and I am really disappointed in the posts about the truncated information screens. That's a cheesy flaw in a car of this level. Being electronic, is it something that can be fixed? (I saw the aftermarket fix posted for the Prius' "I agree" problem.)

But my biggest beef is the recently emerging popular topic of the seats. I realize now that I was so taken by the technology and sheer beauty of this car, that I did not pay enough attention to this all important detail. I'm still experimenting, but after excellent seats in my last two cars (Maxima and Passat), these are a real disappointment. Hard, no contour, no lateral support and lumbar is too high. The only positive is the power bottom extension (which is primo!). I'll be interested in any ideas, because this one issue may really kill the experience for me.

Sorry for the long post. As a newbie, I had a lot to say.

Bill

mackabee · August 2005

Tina, once you see what's in store for the new 2007 Camry which will be out in March of 2006 (calendar year) you will probably forget about the Avalon and get the split 60/40 in the Camry. Stay tuned!

Mackabee

lnt · August 2005

Greg, I HOPE I didn't say that I TEACH dyslexia!! I intended to say I teach dyslexia CLASSES -until I retired. Now, I remediate dyslexic students in my home during the summer months.
Denton has a toyota dealership, too - about 10 miles from my house, but Richardson made me a better deal and besides the dealership here always caused more damage to my vehicles than they repaired! I really like the service manager at Richardson. I didn't complain about the rough shifting transmission to them, but will mention it next time. It is really annoying. My 2000 Avalon was sooo smooth shifting - couldn't feel or hear it at all.

mackabee · August 2005

Sorry guys, It wasn't my intent to "badger" or insult anyone with my post about the trunk release. Now that I'm back on the sales floor I am getting reaquainted(sp?) with the cars and see some of the things folks are pointing out on this forum.

Mackabee

fragmire · August 2005

Heh, no problem, Mackabee. For the record, I'm 23, so probably don't fall under the "old codgers" category

abfisch · August 2005

Jackstacker:

I think I know what is wrong with you car but you have to go through the usual dealership incompetancy first, followed by the Toyota Corporate turf back and forth to the dealership, followed by the regional guy taking a drive with you and not knowing what it is. All happend to me. True story. What a different Toyota Corp. than 10 years ago. The vibration can be a number of things. First try the balance of the tires, then see if the wheels are true and no run out. Then have the bright people check the front rotors. Sometimes when they make them, they cool them too fast and the runout is bad on them. That usually happens at higher speeds, while the former at lower speeds. Again, this all happend to me. If this does not work and the front passenger seat belt and seat still vibrate, I can tell you exactly what it is left. But I will let you check these areas first. You can get back to me if you want.

abfisch

charlesn1 · August 2005

Has anyone had a problem with the shelf on the rear seat being warped and with large gaps between it and the actual rear deck. The shelf attaches to the back of the rear seat which moves in and out when the rear seat is reclined. It slides under the rear window deck. The dealer says he is checking with Toyota on weather or not it is a supplier or manufacturer problem. Either way, I believe it is not correctly installed. Charlie

fragmire · August 2005

Has anyone checked out the new Avalon page on Toyota.com? The spec shows that VSC is now available for all models (link to specs). The eBrochure page always has the new 06 brochure cover image, though the real thing isn't accessible yet (link to eBrochure)

alan_s · August 2005

Either there is a mistake on toyota.com or they have detuned the engine for 2006. The specs now show:

Engine 3.5-liter DOHC 24-valve Dual VVT-i V6
268 hp @ 6200 rpm
248 lb.-ft. @ 4700 rpm

Also leasing and finance rates are WAY up for the 2006.

ange · August 2005

My dealer replaced a section of dash molding and busted the wheel that controls air flow direction.While working on the dash they also misaligned the navigation door. These two items were excellant before the work started. After aligning the steering wheel air bag I found the plastic cover over the instrunents is etched. Looks like acetone was sprayed on it. I'll have to accept this because I sure don't want the dash dissambled as it will never be the same.

Before any work was done I asked the service manager if he felt confortable in undertaking this job and he assured me this is no problem. I was down this road before and swore I would not ever let a dealer try to fix a new car defect. I am on my 4th trip to get this fixed. Some parts will have to fall off before I ask for warrenty work again. I am not bitter, just not happy as I expected from a Toyota dealer. ange1

fredvh · August 2005

If you are referring to the HP there is a new formula for determining horsepower which hopefully everyone will use. Toyota is now using it.

55396 · August 2005

"The xls seats are much better but you lose a lot of nice features."

The seat comments are interesting. Are the complaints primarily about the LTD seats? We tried out an XLS last week and found the seats to be a great fit and very comfortable. Of course, this was on a test drive, but I found nothing to suggest they would be a problem long term. But then, all bodies are different too.

abfisch · August 2005

I love it. What a terrific no nonsense posting. Ofcourse, the NAV is a big sell that ALL the manufacturers are putting out. What a money maker. Although the AAA membership dues are up this year in NY state anyway, I get it back, and between the maps and a compass, you gotta love the tech to throw away 2K on that NAV system. They would be better giving you a better quality product with FOG lights that are not loose, bolts that are torque correctly, etc.

abfisch

55396 · August 2005

"by bending the finger-like steel support"

Reminds me of early in my career at a large computer company. An instructor replyed to a comment about 'bending'. He said "We don't bend things. We FORM them." You may want to use that term when suggesting this method to your service manager. :-)

4439 · August 2005

Thank you. Your advice worked perfectly.

blakejo1 · August 2005

The seats in the xls are completely different from the ltd. I would not order ldt without trying out the seats, in fact that problem is costing me more money since I'm now going for the lexus gs300 awd.

55396 · August 2005

"I believe that enough discussion about this could prompt Toyota to do something about it..."

Again, I encourage all who have complaints/problems, to go to planetfeedback.com and sent your feedback directly to the top people at Toyota who can put things in motion. The little guy has no clout, and you are dealing with people 'here and there'. Not a concentrated focus. Much better to all send your input to one guy AT THE TOP who can drive things down. If he gets inundated with complaints, things WILL happen. Try it.

evancds · August 2005

Is there a new formula for torque aswell? because it was rated at 260 before i believe.

fragmire · August 2005

I tried to use PlanetFeedback, but I kept getting errors at different stages of the process eveyr time I use it. Got pretty frustrated after about 15 tries.

55396 · August 2005

PLANET FEEDBACK"I tried to use PlanetFeedback, but I kept getting errors at different stages of the process eveyr time I use it. Got pretty frustrated after about 15 tries."

I could get to the site and the message that they are in the midst of a relaunch.
I did previously get an email from them stating that they would be doing this. I think they are consolidating with other services and expanding. They say PlanetFeedback is just taking a brief siesta while it gears up for an exciting re-launch. They will return shortly.

In the meantime, you can find their mission statement here: http://www.planetfeedback.com/mission.html

To be on their mailing list when the site re-launches, or if you would like to beta test and provide feedback on some of their new services, send an email to: consumer@gmail.com I just did that.

This is a great tool. I have used it in the past.

Jerry

fivestar1 · August 2005

What is there to change? Power=Torque*Speed*(Units conversion factor), pretty fundamental stuff. Are there some fudge factors being applied according to some obscure standard?

3puttmax · August 2005

The Power=Torque*Speed*(Units conversion factor) relationship never changes.

The method of measuring power or torqe vs rpm can change, mainly what accessories are on the engine, is there an exhaust system, water pump attached, power steering pump, etc. Testing standards have been set by SAE, DIN. Maybe there is a new update to some of these standards - I don't know.

Max

havalongavalon · August 2005

Thanks Jerry for your observation:

"by bending the finger-like steel support" ... "We don't bend things. We FORM them."

Sure. I just remember watching my service manager and a mechanic raise the drooping left tailpipe by BENDING the supporting piece. But if you want to be more FORMAL, suggest your service manager to FORM, REFORM, CONFORM or DEFORM this support. Whatever works!

havalongavalon

havalongavalon · August 2005

By the way mhepple, did you have any better luck yesterday with your service people?

havalongavalon

55396 · August 2005

"by bending the finger-like steel support" ... "We don't bend things. We FORM them."

Sure. I just remember watching my service manager and a mechanic raise the drooping left tailpipe by BENDING the supporting piece. But if you want to be more FORMAL, suggest your service manager to FORM, REFORM, CONFORM or DEFORM this support. Whatever works!

havalongavalon

Yep, whatever strikes his palette best. Same thing, only different. :-)
Just don't piss him off, or ask him to do something he thinks is improper, or he may refuse to do anything for you.

2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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