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Comments
I've driven the M35x several times and it has more than enough room in the driver's seat, both head and leg. Very comfortable.
I bought a new year Audi (more than once, and other than that nasty little problem with the engine needing to be replaced in my first Audi 90 -- hey it was under warranty and everything, it happened almost immediately!!!) and have also had other car's in their infancy with few regrets.
But I personally have never had a BMW, my wife had one in 1988 (before we were married) -- a 325 ix and it was mostly flawless. So, the point is, I dunno if I would worry about the new model thing or not.
I've never had a Japanese car, lux or not, I read all the reliability stuff -- but the only folks I know, personally, who have Japanese cars have them because they "take being ignored" so very well.
When I ask my friends about their Acura's for example they tell me about frequency of repair not fun to drive stuff.
I even kinda got that impression at the Infiniti dealer the other night at the M soire -- the people were all very nice, bright, apparently educated and successful -- but they all seemed like, uh, hmmm, CPA's (no offense). They were interested in just about everything about the cars except the driving experience.
Now, having test driven an M35, I can attest that they are very engaging and able to be tossed with passion, etc. Very Germanic, very European, indeed.
There is a difference in the experience at both the BWM store and the Infiniti Store. Both places are like the lobbies of 4 or 5 star hotels and there is always a receptionist willing to get you a bottle of water, soda or even a Starbucks from the in house boutique (I kid you not) -- but the focus at the BMW dealership is on the drivers and the driving (Car and Driver, hmm good name for a magazine). The Infitini dealer just seemed more interested in making me comfortable, we didn't seem to get engaged in conversations about THE CARS.
Different approaches -- neither one is particularly superior. I may have a preference, but I understand the Infiniti approach just as much as I understand the BMW approach. My wife says it is a difference of PASSION.
It doesn't help that C&D's review, for instance, of the new GS3 from Lexus praised the car high and low and zinged it on the way out by saying "it lacks passion [but Lexus owners won't care]" What kind of left-handed "compliment" was that?
Where was I anyhow?
"I've never had a Japanese car, lux or not, I read all the reliability stuff -- but the only folks I know, personally, who have Japanese cars have them because they "take being ignored" so very well."
Now Mark I would expect better from you. Looks are subjective, example the BMW X3 interior. Reliability is not subjective in the least!....does little Markie need a time out???
Hopefully they will get a good assortment of the Ms (different color combo's).
Based on the small amount of time I spent in the cars, I like the metal interior better than the wood. I think for the wood it will depend on what color leather you get.
I am not really interested in the sport model, but I would go that way if I bought right now to get the metal interior.
Would probably get both the Journey and Tech package.
Wish you could get the power rear sun shade without getting the entertainment/premium package.
So...I am currently comparing the M35 and the Acura RL. I may wait until the 06 RL is available to see if they add the ventilated seats. I definitely want the cooled seats for the climate here. (The GS 300 is out of the picture after I sat in it...I am 6'1"...not enough headroom in the front seats.)
Let me know if they let you test drive one without a salesman...I get much more out of the test drive with a saleman talking to me. Also, did you schedule a test drive time with the internet manager or just walk in?
Mark, it sounds like you've been rather lucky with your cars.
I assume you mean you prefer when the salesman DOESN'T accompany you. When I test-drive I politely (or at least I try to be polite) ask the salesman just to give me directions "so I can listen and feel the car while I drive." Admittedly, I think I offended 1 saleman when I said that, but considering the importance of learning the road noise and other feelings and sounds, it's worth the risk.
That's also why I generally check the gadgetry and radio before I start the drive. I can concentrate on those things while I'm parked and then ignore everything, but the handlig & the ride from the road.
Spoilsport Sedans
1. Infiniti M45 Sport
2. Acura RL
3. Lexus GS430
4. Mercedes-Benz E350
5. Audi A6 4.2 Quattro
6. BMW 530i
7. Cadillac STS V8
8. Jaguar S-Type 4.2 VDP Edition
M45 Verdict: Puts the sports back in sports sedan-with a sledgehammer.
"The M45 rocks. Game over."
http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf
The noise factor is my most pressing concern with the M35x as well. It is somewhat noisy, especially when accelerating.
At cruising speeds (up to 40-50mph) the noise is tolerable...once you get up to speed. It is while you are getting up to speed that you really hear the engine, and road to some extent as well.
However, according to the C&D review, the M45 is comparable in dBA's to every other car tested with the exception of the GS430, the quietest of the test pack.
I'm not sure what how the M35x is though. I just know how it seems and I agree that it is a bit noisy. If anyone could post those figures I'd appreciate it.
As far as "harshness", I think that has more to do with the noise than the actual ride quality, because, again, once it's up to speed (40-50mph at least, since I haven't been able to get it on a non-congested highway) the ride is smooth and relatively quiet.
Curiously enough, after putting you on hold and checking with their supervisor, the first thing they ask is "what company do you work for?". Then they say, sorry, the M is not in your company's program. So, one can guess there are some other VPPs for which the M is eligible now.
Speaking of purchase programs: Last Sat the dealer who was willing to match the Costco price of $2.5k over invoice showed me a page signed with Costco that stated the M was not covered. So, I guess it depends on a dealer what models they do and do not want to be in the Costco program.
Geez, if you want a car with which you can't hear the engine, buy a Buick.
It's not THAT loud, it's just that compared to, say, the A6 or the E class, it is noticeably loud-er.
I think in the $50k+ luxo-sport class people sort of expect engine noise to be a non-entity, except when stomping on the gas (at least I do.)
If I'm remembering correctly, to address what my45 stated about road noise and tire pressure, road noise wasn't much of a factor at all on any of the M35x's that I took out, it was just the engine while accelerating that seemed a bit intrusive....which, by itself I don't mind. I just need to hear it at 80mph+ while cruising. As yet, I have not been able to get it on open road to do so.
The high rpm's I've been hearing at cruising are definitely a concern. If I'm cruising at 80+ for even a moderately long trip, I most definitely do not want to have the bose system competing with the engine (or the road of course) for my ears' attention. That could get old REAL FAST.
The M35, on the other hand, was fairly loud even with moderate acceleration. That engine sounds sweet too, but for those looking for an engine that doesn't announce itself to you, the M35 is not for you.
The M35x is ideal in regard to the AWD and the MPG. I have too many friends and co-workers who have to hitch rides when it snows because their 745i/s55/sl55/etc can't keep it's footing. One of my friends blew his tranny trying to rock his cl55 out of the snow....needless to say that he now sticks to his denali when the sky darkens and it's below freezing. No denali here, though.
I really have to hear what the M35x sounds like at high cruising speeds. If it's too much to deal with then it's back to the drawing board. Probably looking at the A6...again. We'll see.
Also, they have unlocked the GPS so that all functions are useable, although I have not tried the Point of Interest search mentioned earlier on this forum...I will try that and post back.
Anyone know how to get the rear camera to display while you are driving? Not much use, but would be "neat"
Another neat hack would be to get a video feed from the LDW cam...anyone?
I like the metal better also, but it's only available on the Sport model (isn't it?), and I'm thinking about a non-sport (also, I'm not a big fan of the "boy racer" wheels on the Sport.)
Fortunately, if you decide on the Acura, one of the best dealers is in Huntsville. I've bought three vehicles from them, and have always been more than satisfied, i.e., no arbitration agreements, forced options, packs, etc. Also, their prices have always been lower than Nashville's for me, and they have an excellent service department.
If not, then that is GREAT! I will definitely get this done AND look into hacking the reverse cam and lane departure cams to display while driving.
It can't be much more dangerous than talking on your cellphone while driving (which is also illegal here in NY, but people do it anyway!)
I think I'll manage to keep the car on the road. Besides, I can always turn on the lane departure warning if I want to play a DVD while driving!
I guess I must not be following what the message here is. I agree that looks are subjective. Generally speaking, I have not been a fan of BMW interiors of late. The X3 has a certain look to it and generally speaking the sports seats in Terracota look, to my eye, quite nice. I am also a fan of the Audi A6 Amaretto interior and the Infiniti Bourbon interior.
My comments pertaining to the Infiniti had to do with dialogs with people I know with "premium" Japanese luxury cars (e.g., Lexus, Acura) -- the owners of these cars (and these are folks I know and work with) speak of them [when they speak of them at all] in terms of how they can just put gas in them and forget about everything else because they are reliable.
When one of the folks who has a BMW took his car (an X5) in for service he was provided with a BMW loaner (either a 3 or 5 series) and he remarked about its performance and handling.
These anecdotes probably don't prove anything, but they can be influential. I have "tolerated" what many here would probably not tolerate from my German cars (although I have not really felt put out) because they provide a certain "driving experience" that I had not believed could be had in a Japanese car. Part of this opinion had been cultivated by the owners of the cars themselves. My real estate partner bought a Lexus LS400 and kept it for 200,000 miles with the only thing beside regular maintenance required being a new paint job at around 100,000 miles (the car looked new literally at 100,001 miles.) He finally got rid of the Lexus (he sold it to his son) NOT because it had anything wrong with it -- he just wanted a change and was almost afraid the car would outlive him.
He never, however, found the car itself a "joy" -- actually he said it was a very nice "fancy Avalon." And, he meant that as a compliment.
He had had a Mercedes S class and although he did love the car (and had passionate things to say about the driving experience), every time we would talk cars he would re-tell the story of the $1,400 repair to the driver's power seat.
Other similar contrasts persist to this day, as I noted in last month's C&D with their comments about the new Lexus GS and their belief that it was a perfect but passionless car.
I rented a Lexus GS300 in North Carolina for a couple of days when I was on a biz trip -- the car was very nice, completely isolated me from all audible sensory input -- the beginning of my impressions about Japanese luxury/premium cars.
Then the build up to the new RL, a test drive of the TL, the G35x and finally the "M" -- the TL (in a straight line) was very impressive, the G too was an eye opener -- finally the M35x reminded me of a "more powerful Audi A6 3.2 with a sport suspension."
The difference in "perceived passion" remains, but it has been mitigated substantially by these Japanese entrants of late.
BTW, I still think the BMW 5 looks like a Pontiac with a bustle -- I don't care for it. I like the look of the Audis and even though it is not "exciting" I also like the look of the M's.
The M, at this point, is the one to beat -- I just wish the "crowd" over at the Infiniti store was as "into cars" as the crowd at the BMW store.
That is what I was talking about and how I got to those impressions.
I can just see the lawsuits now -- worse, though, the accidents, and potential for injury (or worse) if you got engrossed in a movie and stared at the screen for 2 seconds which at 60MPH is 176 feet.
If I owned the dealership, I would not allow that to happen.
On the other hand, I don't see why you have to have the car in park and the brake on to watch a DVD -- being in park would be sufficient IMO.
I listen to books on CD and it is possible even with some of them to get pretty engrossed in the "theater of the mind" and not be fully engaged in driving. Who knows what we'd do with a movie playing!
Yikes!
What I think is starting to happen though, is that the US and Korea are starting to learn how to make cars almost as relible, so Japan is starting to figure out that boring reliability cant carry them forever. Something else has to justify the price premium over Korea, and performance isnt something that Korea has figured out how to do yet. Mazda, Nissan and Subaru seem to be at the forefront of this new performance oriented direction, with Honda and Toyota's entrenched conservativism holding them back some.
>> It can't be much more dangerous than talking on your cellphone while driving
>> It is no more distracting than watching the map scroll by on the nav screen.
So what? That doesn't make it OKAY!!! It is an extremely unsafe thing to do, both for you and for those in cars around you. I know it is illegal in a lot of places, maybe everywhere.
With that said, let me remind you that your Membership Agreement specifically states Edmunds.com does not allow the promotion of illegal conduct or activities or fraudulent schemes in the Forums. Specifically, you may not advocate illegal conduct...
Further discussion about how to accomplish this will be removed.
Since my wife will soon be the owner of a BMW product, the sales rep has sent me an e-invite to test drive a new 330i, in hopes that I might be so swayed to buy a 330xi, since she knows I will only consider an AWD vehicle. She also has tried to seduce me with a new 5 series with "the new engine at 255 HP" -- big deal, same as the Audi A6 -- and the fact that the new 5 can be had with AWD.
OK, so I got into a current 530 while my wife was filling out some papers, the interior of this black car was black, the wood trim was black and the car had black tinted glass (what is it with BMW or BMW dealers, don't they believe in "color?" -- every darn car on the showroom floor was either BLACK or Silver or Grey for Pete's sake; and, 90% of the cars on the new inventory lot were the same, don't they come in blue, red, green, white and something other than a shade of BLACK????)
Where was I?
Oh yea -- I think the new 3 may not look half bad -- but it may come down to the impression the M has made on me thus far, which is to say "considerable."
I have always thought BMW's were overpriced -- the new car from BMW is $100 less with more stuff on it (can you say a page from Sony's book?)
I just wish the BMW salespeople and customers were over at the Infiniti store. But, I can probably get over that.
It may very well void the warranty! Hacking into the system is changing factory presets, which unless done by Infiniti will void the warranty, and even then it seems like it might void the warranty. Even if someone there does do it don't think for a second that it is legal.
That said, cell phones and navigation systems present similarly distracting driving hazards, and I don't think it's anything worth getting all bent out of shape over. At least I'm not going to.
I live and drive in NY, so dealing with moronic-cellphone-using drivers, not to mention scores of drivers who do not obey stop signs and red lights (ever been to Brooklyn?), much less DVD or cellphone laws (!!!) (haahaaa) is just a part of the everyday driving experience.
As far as 'hacking' the lane departure and reverse cameras to display while driving, I don't see how either of these would present any more of a distraction than your rearview mirror. I just think it would be a "cool", if useless, feature to have.
If I do catch a flight down there anytime soon I think Floridians can rest easy as I doubt any rentals offer computer hacked display screens.
I can understand your dismay, though. I think providing DVD/Nav screens to voters who couldn't master the punch-card ballot would be disastrous. =(
Enjoy the sunshine!
Plus, the distraction of the nav system should be counteracted by the amount of times it prevents someone from being tempted to make a sharp turn from the wrong lane!
I find it hard to believe a dealer would perform this. Although being in the aftermarket business for years I know some will do anything to make a sale. The M34/M45 does not fall into that category at this point, neither do most dealerships in general.
I believe the owner lives in NY where mobile phones are illegal to use. Funny though, one state over where I live, CT, it is not illegal to drive and talk on a mobile phone. I few vendors have actually complained, stating a lost revenue stream because of no law.
Lastly, voiding warranties is strictly per dealership and relates more to "their" policies then the actual manufacture. lastly, in the event any modification is made, most service techs would not be able to find it.
Also, how accurate is the GPS in locating your car?
I think in part it depends on what you are driving now. I'm coming off a TT, which also has a nice note.
In this, my 3rd test drive of this car, I was finally able to get it on a traffic-free highway and open it up a little bit.
The engine really snarls, but in a good way, and delivers very torquey acceleration (it was pretty much redlining through each gear when I really stepped on it, which I like.) No lags between the automatic shifts which were pretty much unnoticeable if I wasn't watching the tachometer to detect them.
At typical 'round town cruising speeds of 30-50mph, the noise is negligable. Only during acceleration does the engine growl and it's a rewarding sound, not at all high and whiney like some 6's out there.
Now I'm gonna leave out rpm's here because, although the M35x was revving relatively high, the noise was relatively less than what most cars would be producing at the same rpm's.
-Cruising at 70mph, the noise was a non-issue.
-Cruising at 80mph, the noise was only slightly noticeable, not enough to make me seriously consider not buying the car.
-At 100mph, yes 100mph, and I wouldn't even have noticed it by the smoothness of the ride...only the cars whose butts I was coming up on made me glance at the speedometer (cuz I was so focused on picking up noise.) So at 100mph, the noise was mostly from the 18" tires and wind resistance and not particularly from the engine.
Verdict: Noise is not an issue that should stop someone from buying this car, IMO.
Overall, this drive only confirmed my earlier feelings that the M35x is a fantastic machine.
lordbarron wrote:
They have unlocked the GPS so that all functions are useable.
========
From what you're saying it sounds like they've unlocked the GPS in a way that allows access to all GPS functions while driving, but it in a way that doesn't require you to toggle a switch.
Usually, the GPS is unlocked by disconnecting the motion sensor wire with a switch. When the switch is togggled back, input while driving is disabled but the GPS position is accurately updated for motion.
If your GPS is working properly, and you can access all NAV functions while driving, and you have no switch to toggle then that would be good news and big news. Is that the case?
If so, it may mean that it's been done through software with a hidden menu option, and I'd sure like to know about.
Pete