Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

lexusguy · June 2004

There was one example. The old M roadster used the M3's 3.2L, but it only made 315hp in that application.

oman9 · June 2004

Hey guys,

See you both (Lexusguy too..) on the Acura RL board, that's some board over there!

I have an Infiniti I30t and have owned Nissans for almost 20 years now. Part of the reason, in addition to free loaners, extended warranties and better customer service IMO, that I go for the Infiniti logo is a belief that the technicians doing the maintenance and repairs on the vehicles are the more experienced, tenured and all around "better" Nissan techs. Do you guys agree with this?

To me it's worth the extra $ for the reasons stated above.

I'm considering, sometime in the next few years, maybe the new M45 depending on how that performs based on what people here and other places say about it as well as a Jeep GC, either 2005 or 2006 MY 5.8L Hemi with the MDS. I know this isn't the board for the JGC, but I would appreciate your quick comments since you guys seem to be among the most knowledgable here at Edmunds...thanks!

saugatak · June 2004

Part of the reason, in addition to free loaners, extended warranties and better customer service IMO, that I go for the Infiniti logo is a belief that the technicians doing the maintenance and repairs on the vehicles are the more experienced, tenured and all around "better" Nissan techs. Do you guys agree with this?

I can't help you on this. My brother is a master mechnanic and whatever I can't fix, I take to him so I've never had to deal with in-house dealers.

Lexus is supposed to have by far the best dealer experience. You would think that Infiniti dealers would be better than Nissan dealers, but it really depends on your dealer.

I'm considering, sometime in the next few years, maybe the new M45 depending on how that performs based on what people here and other places say about it as well as a Jeep GC, either 2005 or 2006 MY 5.8L Hemi with the MDS. I know this isn't the board for the JGC, but I would appreciate your quick comments since you guys seem to be among the most knowledgable here at Edmunds...thanks!

First, I am not one of the most knowledgable at Edmunds. I just have no problem voicing my opinion

.

Second, I find the M45 and Jeep Grand Cherokee to be an odd comparo. If you wanted/needed extra space and offroading capabilities, I'd think you have to go with the JGC. If you want a luxury sedan, the M45 would be the better choice.

IMO, the M45 will be better than the JGC in all respects except for the engine. The M45 is supposed to be built on Nissan's new and improved FM platform, so it should handle even better than the G35, which is one of the best handling luxury sedans, and it'll certainly handle better than a JGC. Also, the M45 looks like it'll have a beautiful interior, almost certainly a nicer interior than a JGC.

In terms of engines, it's no contest. The Hemi wins easily. I don't know the engine specs of the M45, but no 4.5L DOHC v8 is going to compete with a 5.7L OHV Hemi. The Hemi will have more HP, more torque and probably get better gas mileage due to Chrysler's MDS system. About the only place that Nissan's v8 might have the advantage is NVH, b/c most people prefer the sound of DOHC v8s.

I hope this helps you with your choice. Good luck.

lexusguy · June 2004

"Hemi wins easily". WRONG! My guess is around 340hp (if that) in JGC application. The JGC will have to remain body on frame with a low range xfer case for Jeep's "trail rated" image, so that means its gauranteed to weigh hundreds and hundreds of pounds more than the M. Nissans 4.5L V8 already makes 340hp, so the new M will make a bare minimum of that (probably more). If the hemi in 300C application gets 17 city, I would expect probably 13\18 for a big heavy SUV. The M45 should have no trouble toasting that. As for performance, dont make me laugh. The M (if Nissan gets the gearing right this time) should run 0-60 in the low 5 second range. You need a Cayenne Turbo if you wanna play in that league with an SUV.

Oman9, the new M is shaping up to be a fantastic (possible German killer) car in the mid lux range. Unlike the "old" one which used the Q's rather sloppy frame, the new M uses a stretched version of the FM (called FM-L) platform. Nissan is claiming MASSIVE increases in structural and torsional rigidity over G35 (which is no slouch in the handling department). Infiniti knows how much fiercer the competition in that segment will be in the next year or two, and they plan to deliver an all out knockout. The M45 Sport will definitely be a car to watch.

That said, why do you even want a JGC in the first place? I dont know much about the redesign, but the current car is an expensive, sloppy handler that has been CRUSHED by Explorer and Tahoe. Why not get an FX45? Thats about as close as you can get to an M45 SUV.

As for the quality\dealer service thing, Infiniti is rated in JD way above Nissan. Within the last few years, they've been very close to lexus for top dog.

saugatak · June 2004

I didn't say the JGC would outperform the M45. There's no way a trail-rated SUV will outperform a sedan. I presume Oman knows that already.

I said the Hemi is a superior engine to whatever v8 the M45 will have. I was very clear in saying that I was making an engine to engine comparo, not a car to car comparo, which I did in the previous paragraph.

Whether the DOHC v8 in the M45 will have more HP is not going to be terribly relevant, b/c the Hemi has 390 ft-lb of torque, which will be much more than any 4.5L DOHC v8 can possibly generate.

oman9 · June 2004

Thanks guys!

First, I'm not comparing the JGC to the M45, they are different animals. I have two "older" cars, a 96 JGC inline 6 3.0L and a 1998 Infiniti I30t. My wife drives the Jeep, I have the Infiniti although on the weekend I drive the Jeep a fair amount.

My thoughts are about replacing two vehicles...this may not occur for a few years. I was thinking about an M45 for myself and a new JGC V8 hemi with the MDC system for my wife. We have two kids and the JGC has proven over 7+ years to be a good family vehicle and it's not too big which we like vs. Suburbans, Expeditions, etc.

Aside from the M45 I'm looking (JUST looking)now at the Acura RL, thought about a Lexus LS (I know it's up a notch or two perhaps), thought about G35 for a few years but perhaps a bit on the small side. Love the loaners I get from my dealer (who happens to be good although they were better before the G came out...now they have too many customers and service has definitely slipped in addition to a change in ownership two years ago with a more corporate, profit minded mentality).

Aside from the JGC I've recently considered Durango, but probably too big and no MDC at this time...fuel hog. Was closely watching the Lexus GX 470 because I know Lexus quality is high and I liked the size of the GX. In reading that board seems like there are many problems (vibration, smell, etc.) being reported. I know you hear about problems more out here than praise...just seemed like the volume of complaints is a bit too high. I'm sure Lexus has already addressed some of these and will continue to improve that truck, just hesitate to spend that kind of $ on a product with so many reported issues. I'm also a believer in never buying first MY of a new model, let 'em work the bugs out is my belief, right or wrong...Also considering FX45, lacks a bit of cargo based on my looking at it although not sure how that compares to '05 JGC which is a little stretched from prior/current style.

I'm a big looker, not a big buyer. I haven't done detailed analysis because I'm not buying for at least a year or more likely two years. It's just a lot of fun looking at such great choices on the market place today and this is a great site to monitor.

Thanks again guys!!!

lexusguy · June 2004

If you like the M45 and RL, you should also consider the all new GS430. The LS isnt really in the same league as M and RL.

Do you really take your trucks off road, or are they just people and cargo haulers? If its the latter, you should really consider a more modern unibody SUV. An RX330 will average 20-24mpg (WAY more than any big block V8 powered ladder frame, I dont care what kind of fancy displacement handling it has). Plus it drives like a car, which at least for my wife, counts for A LOT.

I'm still not seeing how the 5.7L OHV is superior. The GS430, 545i, A6 4.2, and M-B's own E500, all cars with A LOT less torque than the 300C, will have no trouble keeping up or beating it. Ferrari engines tend to make relatively modest amounts of torque. Are you saying the Chrysler engine is better than Ferrari also?

saugatak · June 2004

I'm still not seeing how the 5.7L OHV is superior. The GS430, 545i, A6 4.2, and M-B's own E500, all cars with A LOT less torque than the 300C, will have no trouble keeping up or beating it. Ferrari engines tend to make relatively modest amounts of torque. Are you saying the Chrysler engine is better than Ferrari also?

There are so many factors besides the engine which can affect which car will beat the other. Gearing, weight, aerodynamics, etc.

If we put each engine into the same car with the same weight, gearing, etc., I'm sure the Hemi would win or hold its own. From a standing stop, the Hemi's low down torque will enable it to overpower the DOHC v8s you mentioned. If both the Hemi powered car and the DOHC v8 car are cruising in an open highway 2,000 rpms or so, the driver of the Hemi just needs to downshift to take the engine into the 5,000 rpm and 390 lb-ft torque range to take off and spank those other v8s you mentioned.

Sure the DOHC v8 powered car might eventually catch up, but it'd have to be doing 150 mph to do so.

The DOHC v8s will have the advantage only at very high rpms. Plus all of those engines you mention, especially the Ferrarri engine, are MUCH more expensive than the Hemi.

Also, now that the Hemi has DoD, it's going to be more fuel efficient than those DOHC v8s you mentioned.

MUCH cheaper, MUCH more torque, MUCH more displacement, better gas mileage vs. slightly more high end HP.

IMO, it's no contest. Hemi wins.

oman9 · June 2004

So bottom line is in the mid size SUV category I'm hearing Lexusguy say RX330 (Yes, basically a people mover and cargo hauler...ZERO off road like 95% of SUV owners) and Saugatak likes the value and performance quotients of the Hemi engine and with DoD being a boost to fuel economy, value quotient improves....so Saugatak leans towards the Jeep GC for MY 2005 with that engine?

I've always thought of the RX styling as geared more towards women. Don't ask me to state how so, just my impression. The new RX330 looks better to me than the RX300. Also it would be my wife's primarly vehicle so really sort of a moot point. Less reported problems, perhaps more reliable engineering on the RX vs. the GX?

Thanks again for your insights...good stuff!

saugatak · June 2004

I'm saying the Hemi is, per dollar value, the best out there. You could buy a Dodge Magnum for about $30k and with that Hemi engine, get performance comparable to cars $50k and above.

However, as Lexusguy has so ably pointed out, a car is more than an engine, and there are tons of other factors like weight, gearing, style that can affect your choice.

If you want a people mover that can also off road well, then the JGC is a good choice. If you don't need off road capabilities, there are LOTS of choices out there. They may not be Hemi powered, but they can make up for it in other ways.

As for your choice of M45 sedan, I think it's going to be a great car and I don't think you can go wrong with it.

lexusguy · June 2004

I've heard of some trouble reports on early first model year GXs, but I dont know too much about it. I didnt hear anything major like a recall or anything. As a matter of fact, I dont remember the last time Lexus initiated a recall. Have they ever? GM on the other hand, theres at least one a week. The GX, from its relation to 4Runner, doesnt offer a lot of the features that RX330 has, the air suspension, back up camera, active headlights, etc. While the GX can be configured as 7 passenger, the rear most seat is basically for small kids only. If you really want some fuel economy, Lexus will offer the RX400h for the '05 model year. With that car, you can expect 35 city\30 highway+. Or at the very least 2x what the JGC will get. In addition, the 40hp electric will fill in the bottom of the torque curve (electrics make 100% of available torque at 0 RPM onward (take THAT hemi) so that helps while the 3.3L winds up to the fat part of the powerband. 0-60 is expected to be mid to low 7 second range.

saugatak · June 2004

Are you opposed to the Hemi? What's not to like? 340HP, 390 ft-lb torque and good gas mileage with Chrysler's MDS and cheap.

Electric hybrids definitely help with low end torque, but now there are 2 motors to service, first time buyers will be guinea pigs, and very few mechanics are going to know how to fix any problems with it, so the few who do are going to charge a butt-whomping premium.

Plus, those hybrids now are selling at a premium so there goes the gas savings.

As is the case with BMW's i-drive, IMO it's usually a good idea to hold back and let someone else pay to test the technology with electric hybrids.

ceric · June 2004

>As a matter of fact, I dont remember the last time Lexus initiated a recall. Have they ever?

Oh, definitely. Check NHTSA.gov.
2001 & before - skipped
2002 - ES300(2)
2003 - GX470(2)
2004 - none
() shows how many recalls.

lexusguy · June 2004

Um, Toyota and Honda have been selling hybrid cars for roughly 5 years now. This is not exactly untested, ultra bleeding edge stuff. Also, the batteries are covered by 100K warranties.

Generally, I am not a fan of OHV engines. Much like the Carter era Fox platform that is under the '04 Mustang, yeah its cheap. And its also dated and inefficient. When Japan has 5.0L DOHC V8s pushing past 500hp, what will Chrysler do then? 7.0L OHVs? 8? 10?

How many cars were actually recalled?

saugatak · June 2004

Um, Toyota and Honda have been selling hybrid cars for roughly 5 years now. This is not exactly untested, ultra bleeding edge stuff. Also, the batteries are covered by 100K warranties.

Fair enough. I'm looking forward to seeing them in action.

Generally, I am not a fan of OHV engines. Much like the Carter era Fox platform that is under the '04 Mustang, yeah its cheap. And its also dated and inefficient.

What's wrong with cheap? If an OHV v8 outperforms and is cheaper than a DOHC v8, why should that be a problem for the consumer?

How are Hemi or GM's LS engines dated? They're brand new engine designs and have tons of new technology in them. The Hemi is on Ward's 10 best engines list beating out tons of DOHC v8s. GM's LS engine would be on Ward's 10 best too but the Corvette is $2,000 north of the $50k cutoff.

And how are modern OHV V8s inefficient? GM's 5.7L LS6 gets more HP, more torque, better gas mileage and is a MUCH smaller engine than BMW's 5.0L M5 v8.

Did you look at that link I posted where GM's 5.7L LS v8 engine was put into a BMW 3-series engine bay with 13 inches to spare, while the BMW M5 5.0L v8 barely fit?

When Japan has 5.0L DOHC V8s pushing past 500hp, what will Chrysler do then? 7.0L OHVs? 8? 10?

Then Japanese engineers will be doing something that German engineers couldn't. BMW's e39 M5 5.0L v8 made 394HP@6,600rpms and 368ft-lb@3,800 rpms. Unless Ferrarri or Porsche make a more powerful v8, there is no naturally aspirated DOHC V8 that is more powerful than the v8 in the e39 M5. As impressive as BMW's 5.0L v8 is, it still falls short of the 5.7L LS6 v8 and the 6.0L LS2 v8, both of which produce 400HP and 400 ft-lb of torque.

You're focusing on specific output (HP/L of displacement) as the only measure of efficiency. But HP/L of engine volume is an equally valid measure of efficiency, and by that measure, the OHV v8s are killing the DOHC v8s.

OHV v8s can increase displacement without getting much larger because cams, valves, pushrods, rockers and other components are stuffed within the valley of the V, which is wasted space on DOHC v8s.

I don't see what's wrong with increasing displacement as a solution to improving engine efficiency. With DoD, larger displacement engines actually become more gas efficient because with the greater torque reserve, the engine can slip into half cylinder/gas saving mode more frequently.

Besides, so what if OHV v8s get 7L of displacement? As long as the engine fits in the car, is affordable, provides gobs of power and gets great gas mileage, who cares?

lexusguy · June 2004

Wasnt the E39 M5 4.4L and not 5.0L? The S2000 made 120hp\litre with the old 2.0L 4 banger. 100hp\litre is enough for a 500hp 5.0L V8. If Japan is going to achieve that without hybrid power, Nissan will be the one to do it. Toyota will most likely match them with a roughly 400hp 8 with a 100+ hp DC electric.

Maserati's NA 4.2L V8 has 400hp. I'm anxiously awaiting to see what Nissan will do with the GT-R. If its anything like the old car, it will be in the $50K range, which will hopefully give the Corvette competition.

Most of my dislike of OHV just comes form its unrefined feel though. I drive an LS and an XKR, and I'm tired of the XKR's whiny droan compared to the silken LS. All out performance just doesnt mean as much to me as does the engines ability to be quiet so I can listen to my tunes.

saugatak · June 2004

Wasnt the E39 M5 4.4L and not 5.0L?

No, the 4.4L v8 with valvetronic debuted with the first Bangled 7-series. I think it makes 325HP. The M5 version of the v8 is a 5.0L. See this link.

http://www.maximum-cars.com/Cars/Car.php?carnumber=19&randomc- - - ar=1

S2000 made 120hp\litre with the old 2.0L 4 banger.

Oh the specific output is great, but doesn't it have to rev to around 8,000 rpms to get there? And no 2L 4 banger is going to get good torque. Maybe around 160 ft-lb or so at best.

100hp\litre is enough for a 500hp 5.0L. If Japan is going to achieve that without hybrid power, Nissan will be the one to do it.

Well just b/c Honda hit 120HP/L with its DOHC I4 doesn't mean that specific output will translate over to a v8. Bigger cams, 4 cams vs. 2, balancer shaft, more and bigger valves creating more air turbulence, etc. will translate into valvetrain and friction losses.

If BMW could only achieve a specific output of 80HP/L with the M5 v8, I doubt Nissan will improve BMW's specific output by 25% and hit 100HP/L. BMW engineers are no slouches.

Maserati's NA 4.2L V8 has 400hp.

That's a Ferrarri engine in that car. 400HP@ 7,000rpm and 333 ft-lb@4,500. With 0.8L less displacement than the M5 v8, it produces only 35 ft-lb of torque. Pretty damn impressive. However, it still falls short of the Corvette's LS6 or LS2.

The only way a v8 can get that kind of specific output is by being a flat-plane v8, instead of being a cross-plane v8 like the LS, Hemi and the M5 v8.

Flat plane v8s will be smaller than and more efficient than cross plane v8s b/c flat plane v8s don't have a balancer shaft, but their NVH is terrible. Not a problem for a sports car, but not suitable for a luxury sedan.

I wonder whether the 4.2L Ferrarri v8 is smaller than the LS2 or LS6. Nevertheless, if the relatively cheap LS OHV v8s can compete with incredibly expensive Ferrarri v8s, I think the OHV v8s are doing OK.

Ferrarri can probably make a 5.0L v8 that whips the LS and Hemi, but that engine is going to cost a small fortune.

I'm anxiously awaiting to see what Nissan will do with the GT-R. If its anything like the old car, it will be in the $50K range, which will hopefully give the Corvette competition.

Unless it has a Ferrari type flat plane v8 with 5.0L of displacement or a cross-plane 5.0L DOHC v10, it ain't going to be competition for the Corvette. 7.0L 500HP, 500 ft-lb LS7 v8 is coming up next year for the new generation Corvette Z06.

Supposedly GM can hit 550HP or so easily with the LS7, but can't meet emissions. One advantage of DOHC is with VVT on exhaust, DOHC can increase HP without having emissions issues.

GM has incorporated VVT into an OHV v6 engine. Hopefully they'll incorporate VVT into the LS engines at some point in the future so they can unlock the full HP in the LS engines without being limited by emissions issues.

saugatak · June 2004

Most of my dislike of OHV just comes form its unrefined feel though. I drive an LS and an XKR, and I'm tired of the XKR's whiny droan compared to the silken LS. All out performance just doesnt mean as much to me as does the engines ability to be quiet so I can listen to my tunes.

Well then you won't be happy with a Ferrarri engine, that's for sure

I forgot how much into music you are. I agree that NVH wise, DOHC v8s beat up on OHV v8s, no contest.

Still, a DOHC straight 6 beats DOHC v8s in terms of NVH.

I was seriously considering a Trailblazer b/c GM's 4.2L I6 in that car is SMOOTH. Unfortunatley, it's a phenomenal engine mated to a nice looking, but shoddily built, SUV with an ugly interior.

Toyota has buttloads of money. They should copy GM's strategy and build a big displacement DOHC straight 6 for their big SUVs instead of the cruddy v8s they have in there now. Then they'd have even better NVH for all you Mark Levinson fans.

lexusguy · June 2004

The Toyota iron block 4.7 is hardly the best power or torque in its class, but it is significantly smoother than anything thats available from Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, or Ford. Not that I'm going to buy a 4Runner V8 or LC any time soon anyway. Toyota's corporate 3.3L gets the job done. Compared to the GS300 with its straight six, the RX330 is much quieter (though Im sure this also has A LOT to do with the GS300 being 6 years old). Unlike GM, they (much like Nissan and Honda) tend not to make a lot of different application specific engines. The straight six was unusual in that respect for them, and its getting killed off, most likely for a 3.5L that will spread with various output across the range from Camry to GS350.

Toyota does have a truck specific 4.0L 245hp\282ft.lb. VVTi V6, but I havent driven one.

alpha01 · June 2004

.. is that the "cruddy" 4.7L Toyota V8 is expected to gain VVTi for 2005.

~alpha

saugatak · June 2004

Well the "cruddy" v8 I was talking about is the one in the Sequoia. I presume it's used in a bunch of their SUVs, but I don't know for sure.

A friend wanted me to provide the "muscle" to help her pick stuff up from IKEA and she has a Sequoia. She doesn't like to drive so I drove it to IKEA for her and back. Our conversation went something like this:

Me: "Geez, this car handles like a pregnant cow elephant."

Her: "It's a full size SUV, what do you expect?"

Me: "This thing needs a v8."

Her: "It has a v8."

Me: "This v8 sucks."

Her: "Shutup and just lug my furniture."

I don't understand why Toyota can make such a wonderful 4.0L and 4.3L DOHC v8 for the LS400/430 and GS400/430 and can't do the same for their SUVs, which are bigger sellers. Makes no sense to me.

lexusguy · June 2004

Pre '98, the Land Cruiser and LX450 were getting buy on a huge 4.5L V6. Toyota has been very hesitant about building a large displacement 8. Why, I dont know. They finally are coming around though, thanks mostly to the Armada\Titan's awesome 5.6L DOHC V8 that takes on the best the domestics have got.

saugatak · June 2004

They finally are coming around though, thanks mostly to the Armada\Titan's awesome 5.6L DOHC V8 that takes on the best the domestics have got.

Not for long. 6.1L Hemi is coming out next year and so is GM's 6.0L LS2 powered trucks. Don't know the stats on the Hemi, but GM's LS2 powered trucks are supposed to make 385 HP and 400 ft-lb of torque.

I think Ford is making a 6.2L OHC engine called the "Hurricane" as well.

alpha01 · June 2004

far from the topic of the M35/M45. Anyone have anything informative/ critical/constructive to say about the cars that we're supposed to be talking about?

~alpha

fugafan · June 2004

I couldn't agree more - I was wondering the same thing myself. Almost decided not to visit this forum any longer as it did not seem to have anything to do with M35/45 discussions.

Kirstie_H · June 2004

Yeah, I know we've veered off topic - my bad. Hopefully we'll get some more info soon.

rctennis3811 · July 2004

I noticed that Edmunds has a First Drive of the upcoming STS. Any idea if they will have one of the M35/45 and if yes, when?

Thanks!

jrock65 · July 2004

"far from the topic of the M35/M45. Anyone have anything informative/ critical/constructive to say about the cars that we're supposed to be talking about?"

Probably a result of zero new info about the 2006 M, official or unofficial, recently. You can now "package" options on their preliminary pricing site.

lexusguy · July 2004

The problem is people already know whats on it. The V6 and V8 and transmission is already known, plus the AWD system, what it looks like, and what its going to offer. Wheres the debate in that?

Kirstie_H · July 2004

Wish I knew! We don't know what's coming before the articles go live, or just before. They usually post a first drive article as soon as the vehicle is available for testing, though.

plina · July 2004

I have been tracking the prices of the 2005 M45 on the Infiniti website and have built a M45 6 cylinder AWD fully loaded and is $58,000. This is ridiculous, I paid $50,195 for my 2003 V8 fully loaded with chrome rims.
Infiniti does not want this car to sell and they have totally turned me off, I love my M45 but when my lease is over I will get the Audi A6 with the 8 or a 6 or maybe a Phaeton and save a few thousand in the process, it takes time to compete with the Germans but Infiniti just want to charge ridiculous money and they have lost a long time Infiniti owner me!!!!

lexusguy · July 2004

I wouldnt believe anything you see on the "build your M" thing they have going. Infiniti has been changing that tag literally every 3 days. It is NOT official pricing.

jrock65 · July 2004

First, as lexusguy said, those prices are "tester" prices, and not final at all.

Second, you're adding up $2600 worth of "body enhancements", such as chrome wheels, aero body kit, and spoiler.

The estimated base price of the V6 AWD is $43,800.

Journey Package: $2750

 Climate-controlled front seats with internal ventilation; provide cooling and heating functions
 High Intensity Discharge (HID) xenon low-beam headlights with adaptive front lighting
 230 Watt audio system; 8-speaker, 2-channel stereo system with AM/FM, in-dash 6-disc CD auto changer, and MP3-CD playback
 RearView Monitor displays area behind vehicle, in real time, when vehicle is reversing via dash-mounted color LCD screen
 Pre-Crash Seatbelts; When hard braking is necessary, pre-crash seatbelts react by retracting the seatbelt to pull the driver and front passenger into their seats, helping to position them for airbag deployment in the event that an accident is imminent.
 Electronic compass within inside mirror
 Homelink® Universal Transceiver offers control for compatible garage doors, home lighting and home security systems

Technology Package (including Journey Package): $6750

 Infiniti Navigation System with 8-inch color LCD screen, Birdview, DVD-ROM database and voice activated destination entry
 300+ Watt, 14-speaker, 5.1-channel surround sound audio system with AM/FM, in-dash 6-disc CD autochanger, DVD-Audio playback, and MP3-CD playback
 Intelligent Cruise Control uses computerized laser sensors and a digital rangefinder to identify vehicles ahead while automatically maintaining the pre-set following distance
 Lane Departure Warning generates an audible warning to alert the driver of the vehicle's unintended lane departure
 Satellite Radio (choice of XM® or Sirius service providers)*

Premium Package (includes Journey/Technology Packages): $10,500

 Heated and power reclining rear seats
 Rear passenger controls for climate, audio and rear sunshade
 18-inch Run-flat tires
 Power rear sunshade
 DVD Mobile Entertainment System

The Premium Package is basically for rear seat comfort, and I doubt many M35's will be equipped with it.

Most will be equipped with the Journey Package (Total $46,550) or the Journey/Tech Package (Total $50,550).

I bet the actual MSRP will be a couple thousand less than this. They're probably waiting to see how Acura prices the RL as well.

valuebuyer · July 2004

As it stands, the marketing data being collected by Infiniti on the US site clocks in around $50K for the AWD6 and $57K for the RWD8 - that is, both with all the bells and whistles that Marketing will use differentiate the models in the '05 market. If Acura doesn't follow suit (and jack up the RL prices over 2004), that's a $10K difference, on average.

That's a lot of lost M Sales, no matter how you model it.

If I were Acura, I'd let Infiniti cuts its own throat here by trying to pretend that the M model: (1) with no Sales track record (M45 sales to 2004 were the bane of any Inifiniti dealer - salespersons roll their eyes at how crappy sales have been for the 'predecessor'); and (2) the Butt-Ugly Award for design, should command a premium in the market over the 2004 pricing. And oh, how about that depreciation, folks? I love the brand, but there is no 'history' here (yet) of slower depreciation that can command higher pricing.

jrock65 · July 2004

Totally disagree with you here.

A similarly equipped 2006 AWD M35 (w/ Tech Package) will probably MSRP at about $48,000, about the same as the 2005 RL. These are my estimates.

The current M45 sales have sucked, but so have the current RL sales.

If you're talking about the design of the current M45, I agree it's ugly. But the 2006 M is a sharp looking car, certainly generating more "buzz" than the rather bland looking 2005 RL, from an exterior design standpoint.

The "Ghosn" Infinitis, such as the G35, G35 Coupe, and FX35/45, all have low rates of depreciation. No reason to think that the new M will be otherwise.

lexusguy · July 2004

Agreed. Infiniti has taken the gloves off, and the FX, G, and QX are all in hot demand. Nissan is willing to take chances with their styling and design, and wether you like them or not, a Murano grabs your attention and a Pilot does not. The new M is a gorgeous car, maybe even a bit more than the new GS. The RL is very Honda-esque. Its mostly conservative, and while its not offensive, its not that memorable either. I really like the TL's agressive lines, and I was hoping for more than the RL delivered in that department.

glennmavis · July 2004

Is it really worth waiting for new M45 or I can just but an existing one. And if I should buy existing (2004) one, how much should I pay for fully loaded?

Kirstie_H · July 2004

Hi glennmavis - the question of whether to buy now or not is one only YOU can answer - are you eager to have the updates on the 2006, or are you happy to buy the 2004, with its current styling and features? How long do you intend to keep the vehicle? We'll be happy to help you out with specific questions, like what features you can get in each model, and resale values, though. Just let us know what you're looking for in a vehicle.

To see what other in your area are paying for the '04, please check our Infiniti M45 Detail Page, or you can post a question in our discussion called Real-World Trade-In Values.

wibble · July 2004

You should be looking at $7000 off MSRP at least. Make sure you're going to keep it. I got a 2003 M45 stickered at $47455 for $37455. Due to circumstances I had to give it up 9 months later. The best offer I got on it was $33500. It is a great car but only at the right price.

lexusguy · July 2004

I would really suggest waiting. There are HUGE differences from the old car to the new, they go much deeper than new sheetmetal. Even if you can stomach the current cars looks, or complete lack thereof, if you're looking for sport, it basically doesnt deliver. I would suggest a late model 540i if you've got to have a car right this minute.

valuebuyer · July 2004

Yes - very disconcerting - that's why I go in a few time a day, entering various US zip codes, and select only the 'cheapest' model. I assume they are (over)paying marketing firms to collect ths crap, so I believe it is the average Cro-Magnon's duty to make that data as useless as possible. Notice that the changes always occur in the base price, and yes - the swings are too erratic. I agree with the guy who said that the 2005 RL and 2005 GS pricing will keep Infiniti pricing within historic parameters.

In my region, the 2004 GS300 would be a lot cheaper than these Infiniti M prices. Love Infiniti, but not that much. And you really can't ignore depreciation - despite some posters trying to argue that the 'Ghosn Infinitis' are 'different'. They aren't - not when up against Lexus, BMW or the guys from Stuttgart - what you 'overpay' up front, you get on the back-end (if you can keep the Germans out of the shop).

diego413 · July 2004

Last week, I spoke with the Infiniti sales person. He told me that he could offer me $8,000.00 off from MSRP now, and it will be $10,000.00 off with 1.9% APR in few months. I will purchase 2004 model end of October. Please give us update if anyone finds good deals on 2004 model.

lexi4life · August 2004

Anyway, when does this car hit the showrooms?

wibble · August 2004

Early 2005, possibly March.

lexi4life · August 2004

Same time than the next GS. That's gonna be interesting

carnaught · August 2004

Not too interesting if the pictures do the cars justice. The GS looks ugly and bloated and like it was designed by a committee. The Infiniti inside and out looks athletic and muscular, and will have performance to match.

lexi4life · August 2004

Well appearance doesn't always tell you a car's personnality. You can have an inofensive looking car that can beat up (in terms of performance, etc.) other cool looking cars that everybody would have thought better.

legendman · August 2004

I have been considering the new 2005 Acura RL and also the new M 45. I have a few questions that perhaps someone can answer. I apologize if these questions have been covered elsewhere.

1. How much will the M45 cost?
2. When will it hit the showrooms for sale?
3. How's the horsepower and the handling?
4. How is Infiniti's reliability - lately?
5. Resale value -- still less than Acura?
6. Any chance that they will tone down the "Jetson's" style dashboard control panel?
7. Is this a worthy "adversary" of the RL, handling and performance wise, or is this car merely a plush ride in a sleek, svelte suit?
8. Any other thoughts as to how these cars compare - pro or con?

Thanks in advance for any info you guys can knowledgeably share.

wibble · August 2004

Try http://www.infiniti.com/content/0,,cid-33903_sctid-52321,00.html. It will answer a lot of your questions. The specs are in the "eclusive" section. The password is "imagine".
Try out the "build your M" section for ideas on packages and prices. Bear in mind that Infiniti use this section as a market research tool so the prices can change on a daily basis.
As far as I know, the first cars are due in the first quarter of 2006.

rudikamp · August 2004

Wibble , I think you mean in the first quarter of 2005 .

Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

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