Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

tomnh · March 2005

Maybe you should go back to your lot and stay out of the forum unless you have useful info!

Kirstie_H · March 2005

Folks, when you see something like this, please e-mail a host rather than post about it in the discussions. Thanks.

05buyer · March 2005

Thx for the report ! Your level of informative detail goes well beyond any report that I've seen to date, and also as I have not seen any 'Sport to Non-Sport' comparisons anywhere.

drcubber · March 2005

Has anyone seen a comparison between the new Lexus GS and the M45 or M35. I know it's early in the game to compare 2006 autos but I'd be interested in a comparison. also, has anyone here in this forum driven both cars...your input would be appreciated.

liy · March 2005

Well, yes, you can check this out right here on Edmund's http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=10- 4808

Much consternation about this review from the Infiniti/Acura fans!

LIY

texag · March 2005

Gentlemen, I need your advice (again). Last 8Jan I bought a 2005 G35 sedan/auto/prem pkg C/nav/trunk mat for $35,210 (+ttl) which incl maint. My intentions were to wait for the M but I just got antsy & didn't. My problem is that my G is just a little small to my liking and the M is just perfect.

I called my salesman (in Houston) a week (67 mi) after I bought and told him that I wanted to return it because I was dissatisfied due to the size. He suggested waiting for the M and they "would see what we can work out".

Well, Tuesday he offered me $28,500 for my G with 1600 miles on it. His M price is MSRP period. In addition he says in a few months they will tack-on another 3%.

My questions:
1)Is a depreciation of $6,710 reasonable for 60 days/1600 mi or should I shop other dealers?
2)Would you recommend waiting a few months for a drop in MSRP?
3)Do you think MSRP+3% is likely in a few months?

I retired last year and since this could be my last car I would like it to be satisfying (although the G is very close). Your answers and suggested would be appreciated!

lexusguy · March 2005

Almost 7 grand seems kind of rough to me. Perhaps you might want to try just selling the car yourself?

disaac · March 2005

Rich,

Here in PA they seem to be similarly unmovable off MSRP FWIW.

sergeym · March 2005

In a few months they will be selling Ms at invoice + $300. The luxury car market is slow now. Look at MB and BMW. Wait for at least 1-2 month and you'll see dealers change their tunes.

carnaught · March 2005

Well even if they add 3% to the M's MRSP, they'll be discounting them in 3-6 or more months IMHO.

As for your G, the old adage that a new car depreciates the moment you drive off it off the lot, has reared its ugly head. The $6700+ you're taking as a loss seems about right. I agree with the other poster that you'd be better off selling the car yourself. That way you'll recover some of this depreciation.

bartalk3 · March 2005

A 3% increase down the road for Infiniti is definitely possible (although salesmen love to scare buyers into buying now by announcing huge price increases, real or imagined, around the corner).

As the same time, however, Honda/Acura have just increased their prices. As the dollar sinks and raw materials prices soar, foreign cars are going to be increasingly expensive in this country. Here comes inflation. Get 'em now while they're cheap.

I don't agree that the M35/45 will be selling for near invoice in a few months. Depends on demand. Since the car's been getting rave reviews from the car mags and it's the cheapest in its class (vs. Acura, Lexus, BMW, etc)., that car may continue to bring near-sticker prices for a long time.

Try to sell the car yourself. It's virtually new and should appeal to G buyers at a couple of thousand below what dealers charge, plus still under a huge warranty, so the buyer takes no chances.

hpowders · March 2005

Hey my45. I am also 6'2". The legroom is fine in the driver's seat?
Thanks.
hpowders

rayainsw · March 2005

I was finally able to drive another M45 Sport. This one had over 400 miles on it, and I therefore felt it reasonable to push the motor in this one  as I did not really push the first one I drove. I drove the first M45 Sport not quite a month ago. It had very, very few miles on it.

Executive Summary: M45 Sport is now alone at the top of my Short List.

Caution: Long and rambling post. (No surprise to many, Im sure!)

Even with another 200+ LB passenger (vs. me alone in my LS - on the same roads at the same speeds just after the test drive), the M45 is noticeably quicker  off the line, 25  60, and in highway merge / passing at 60+. Impressive. Very impressive. Lunges forward at WOT, acceleration builds quickly and very smoothly. Felt terrific  and entertaining. Perhaps a couple of hundred break-in miles helps free up the V8?

The exhaust does make itself known at WOT above about 3,000 rpm. It is a lovely sound indeed. Not loud. (I would accept a few more db.) It sounds both powerful and expensive. The trans. manumatic mode works flawlessly. Now that I have had an opportunity to play with it some more, Id say that the rev match on downshifts feature does work well. Upshifts and downshifts were both quicker and smoother than in my LS. (And WOT upshifts, at over 3,000 RPM on my LS are pretty darned good!) And much, much better than the manumatic mode in the S4.

(Aside: I also drove another 2005 Audi S4  just 20 minutes before driving the M45. Partly as a calibration run. Partly, I wanted to confirm a few earlier observations from a previous test drive. The acceleration is likely comparable between the S4 w/Tiptronic and the M45 Sport. MSRP on the S4 is near identical as well, with the options Id likely have to take, as my dealer orders them essentially all the same way except for color. And Id not want to wait the 10 / 12 weeks to order one. For several reasons.)

Anyway, I confirmed that the M45 Sport ride is an exceptional combination of excellent ride and handling. The ride quality is still quite surprising to me (32 psi all around, verified with the on-board display) given the 19 wheels and aggressive, summer tires. One certainly is made aware of broken pavement and other severe conditions, but it is well muted and all ride motions are very well damped.

The ultimate handling limits are something I would never attempt to explore in any car on public roads. Up to entertaining speeds and cornering loads, the M45 in Sport form always felt smooth, steady, controlled and capable  and not working hard at all. Understeer was kept to an acceptable level. Steering feel is a comfortable compromise between feeling the road surface and being well damped. Turn-in response was well balanced and quite responsive. Felt accurate and confidence inspiring at all times.

Although the 2300 RPM at 60 (one reason, clearly, that the EPA highway fuel mileage is not great!) is something that I would have to get used to, the motor is smooth and quiet at any cruising speed Id likely hold for any period of time. I think this is now a non-issue for me.

The sunroof in full vent position did not make any noise this time  that I noticed. (Traffic on the highway portion of my drive, particularly heavy truck traffic, was much heavier than my first drive.) Perhaps there was a crosswind during my previous drive?

Anyway . . . all other noise was well within acceptable limits. (I have no clue what Edmunds was referring to in their rather odd comparison test.) I typically test drive with the stereo off, to hear everything I can from the road, motor, etc. I can always check the stereo out later, but I expect the standard system is fine for me. I prefer that the exhaust sound nice. And to me, it certainly does. And no mechanical thrash from the Internal Combustions going on and all the reciprocating pieces under the hood intrudes. Just one of my things.

I can see where someone a bit shorter might not appreciate the layout of some of the controls atop the center stack. At 6-0, no issue there for me.

I find the interior to be roomy and very comfortable  both (briefly) as a passenger and particularly as a driver. And I find the interior aesthetics quite acceptable. Colors, textures, layout, etc. The drivers seat is supportive and appears to offer acceptable comfort for longer stints behind the wheel. The interior color on this tester was graphite, with the optional rosewood trim. Exactly as Id order one. Suits me.

rayainsw · March 2005

Part deux.

Lest it be lost in all of the other comments: This car is a lot of fun to drive!!!!!!!!

A lot of fun.

I am hoping next time to drive one without the additional 200 LBs of ballast (salesperson) but I have enough seat time now that I wouldnt require that.

This car now supersedes the Jaguar S-Type R at the top of my put a gun to my head and choose a new car RIGHT NOW list.

And the MSRP on an 2006 M45 Sport with only Rosewood is something like $7K lower than a 2005 Jaguar S-Type R. The lease rates I have seen for the M appear quite aggressive as well. If I just cannot wait until dealers have a wider selection of M-s in their inventory, lease may be better than buy, in this case. Well see.

And yes, the MSRP (and the true transaction cost) on an M45 would be greater than a 2005 Lincoln LS Sport. By quite a lot, I will admit. If only Lincoln would add a 335 HP / 340 TQ V8 option. Etc. If only . . .

And I do not see another 300+ HP / TQ sedan out there at anything below $50K that interests me. Right now. The S4 is fun, but (despite a few points in its favor, like lower RPM at cruise) does not strike me as the equal of the M45 Sport in areas like refinement. Acceleration is likely comparable to the M45, but I do not want (or need) AWD and the extra weight and forward weight distribution the Audi layout brings. The STS V8 does not allow me to cherry pick only the options Id really want (thats another whole story), so the MSRP of the only one Id actually consider buying (1SF) is essentially the same as the MSRP of the Jag S-Type R: $58K. (Interesting that the acceleration numbers I have seen for the M45 are actually VERY close to the published numbers for the S-Type R!) A6 4.2 (nice car, w/lovely 4.2L V8, much as in the S4) is too heavy, and thus way too un-quick. (Not slow, just not quick enough for me.) No V8 available from MB or BMW appeals to me right now. Etc.

(Perhaps I need to check out the new Lexus GS 430? Maybe not . . )

There certainly are a few points against the M45.
1  Likely no significant discount off MSRP (without buying way out of town, possibly) until much more inventory piles up on dealers lots.
2  The highway mileage is likely no better than my 2003 Lincoln LS Sport. (Sigh.) At least with a 20 gallon fuel tank, Id have additional range.
3  The scheduled maintenance is not included in MSRP. Best guess is thatd total something like $1,000 + / - over my typical ownership duration.
4  Heated seats seemed a bit slow to warm up. (OK - reaching here . . .)

I will repeat one line from my earlier impressions, as I have essentially confirmed the accuracy.

Summary: Refined. Spirited. Comfortable. Solid. Competent. Fun.

Just my opinion  and I have a LOT of em. . .
- Ray
Always willing to share  opinions, that is . . .

my45 · March 2005

I am also 6'2". The legroom is fine in the driver's seat?

More than fine. There is plenty of travel left in the seat, so you could probably even be 6'6" and still be comfortable.

In fact, as I think I mentioned, after adjusting the driver's seat to my liking, I could even sit behind the driver's seat comfortably, so the back seat legroom is good too.

hpowders · March 2005

Thanks my45. I have to drive one for myself. Drove the GS 430 and liked it-excellent steering-good acceleration, but not exactly a rocket. Very powerful brakes. Seats only average. Narrow trunk opening. Could use 3 more inches of front legroom.
Regards,
hpowders

tdoma · March 2005

Hey texag, if I were you I would try to wait for about 6 months, when the supply situation improves, and hopefully better deals for the buy side of the transaction. You could also try to sell your car to Carmax, if you have one near you.

lexusguy · March 2005

Engines in their "green" period (0-15K miles or so) dont perform as well as an engine with say 24K on it. I've seen cases from Long term tests in magazines where 0-60 times have improved as much as a half second once the engine is fully broken in. As quick as the M45 feels with 400 miles on it, it should feel a lot faster once you get into the second year of ownership.

albertn · March 2005

I have a question for you car buffs. A few weeks ago I test drove the M45 Sport and the M35x. At that time I found the rides to be quite similar, except the M45 Sport had a stiffer suspension and handled a bit better. I don't remember there being any big difference the cars in how road imperfections were felt. Based on that driving experience, I decided to buy the M45 sport and was very excited about it.

Now last night my car came in and I drove it home. As soon as we pulled out of the dealership, I felt every bump and dip in the road. I immediately noticed it, as did my 10 year old son (who was on the test drive with me). I don't remember the demo feeling like that.

Now, the demo had many miles on it, while my new car had only eight. Is it possible for a new car suspension to somehow break in so that bumps will be felt less after a certain amount of miles have been driven (or am I just remembering the test drive badly)? I remember really liking the ride of the demo, yet I don't really love the ride of the car I drove home. I am considering trying to take it back to the dealership (the sooner the better), so I would appreciate any responses.

Thanks
Albert

merc1 · March 2005

That could be a difficult one there. I would have to ask first have you driven your car over the same route as the one you took on your initial test drive of the M45 Sport? Second question could you be confusing the ride of the M35x (a non-sport vehicle) with the ride of the M45 Sport? I would imagine that the switch from 18 inch wheels and no sport suspension on the M35x and the 19 inchers and sport suspension on the M45 would make a difference that should be felt instantly, imo without having driven the M yet.

Some of the early reviews have hinted that the Sport option might be too firm or "sporty" for some luxury car buyers, and with a newly found sporting edge at Nissan/Inifniti I could see them tuning these new Sport Ms quite aggresively.

My next question would if all M45 Sports come with the same brand of tire?

Was the M45 Sport you drove a cold car right off the dealer's lot, if its cold where you are? Freezing temps can have an affect on ride quality especially on sporty cars wearing summer tires. If the dealer had a demo thats been out on test drives all day the tires are going to be "warm" and will ride better in the case of the Sport model. Summer tires hate freezing temps.

Just thinking out loud here, but drive your car over the same route you took on that initial test drive and see what you find, that should be most revealing. That and driving the M35x again.

M

albertn · March 2005

The only difference that I am aware of is the coldness of the night. I don't think the route was important since I noticed the bumpiness immediately when I got off the lot, and part of my route home was the same as my test drive.

Maybe I just have a bad memory, but I don't remember the demo feeling the way my car did. Could the suspensions be tuned differently from car to car?

Albert

merc1 · March 2005

I see, well suspensions definitely aren't tuned differenlty from car to car, or at least they aren't supposed to be. One M45 Sport should be tuned exactly like any other M45 Sport. Tires could be the only variable.

Give the board here a little more time, there will be other ideas. Worst case scenario is that something is defective on your car, but it doesn't sound like that is the case to me.

M

lexusguy · March 2005

Interesting issue. You should talk to your dealer about it, and perhaps have them take a look at the car to make sure its properly to spec. Perhaps its tire pressure?

cdnpinhead · March 2005

Check the tire pressure. . .NOW.

Cars are often shipped with far more than the recommended pressure in the tires to prevent flat-spotting. Supposed to be brought down to spec by the dealer, but. . .

rayainsw · March 2005

"As soon as we pulled out of the dealership, I felt every bump and dip in the road. I immediately noticed it, as did my 10 year old son (who was on the test drive with me). I don't remember the demo feeling like that. "

I agree with the poster above. My immediate suspicion / guess is tire pressures set too high. What does the display show? Both Demo M45 Sports I drove were set to 32 psi cold. (Per the display on the dash.)

My reading of the manual suggests that the Ms warning system will notify you of LOW (below 27 psi) tire pressure(s)  but not care if the pressure is too high . . .

I have seen dealerships where every car on the lot is set to (sometimes WAY) higher pressures than recommended by the manufacturer. Right up to the maximum allowable number on the tire. That will result in a dramatically more harsh and brittle feeling ride. 33 is the Infiniti recommendation for the M  on both the 19 on the Sport and the 18 on the non-Sport (page 9-9.

Good luck  and please report your findings? And what are your other impressions  as you will clearly drive more miles than I have been able to drive even in 2 tests.

Thanks,
- Ray
Not an Automotive Engineer, just a buff . . .

markcincinnati · March 2005

My thoughts related to the ambient temperature. Call me crazy, but I switched to Summer only tires, year round (thinking Cincinnati's winters have been so moderate -- both in temperature and white stuff -- that I could get away with it in my AWD Audi allroad [then the WINTER of 2004-2005 hit us!]); so, on days when the outside temperature is cold enough to lower my garage temp below 30F, I notice the tires protest by making my ride quite bumpy at least until I reach freeway speeds.

This is an M45 sport, yes? I assume it comes with UHP summer tires, if the temp was low enough, this phenom (cold tires) could explain this, no?

cohenfive · March 2005

glad to hear that the steering feel on the sports is 'communicative'. one thing i enjoy about bmw's (i currently drive an m5) is the 'heavy' steering with lots of feel and communication of what's going on. this is also the one thing i was unhappy with when i test drove an m35 (non-sport). the steering was very numb without much 'feel'. hoping that when i drive a sport i like the steering. my wife hates the m5 although i and my kids love it...

hpowders · March 2005

Try the GS 430. Steering is close to BMW. Drove a GS430 yesterday. Been a BMW man since 1993.

tomnh · March 2005

Just curious if anyone has feedback on insurance ratings for the M35x. My company said that they don't have any info yet and will have to go by the cost. Any help would be appreciated.

mapleman · March 2005

Need a new car - Test drove BMW545 - Audi A6 & Q45- BMW by far was the biggest rush for a test drive both for me and the 2 teenagers - however I couldn't afford all the tickets I would get driving it - nice interior - The Audi was overall just nice. The Q's gadgets had both of the other vehicles beat by a landslide - but it felt like driving a boat - too big. Then we seen the M45 sport in the showroom - just the right size with all the gadgets - great looking interior. Was sold without a test drive. But decided to go back and test drive anyway. Due to living in the midwest I wanted a AWD - But it was not available in the 45 series so test drove the 35X - more than enough power for a 6 cylinder - The thing that sold my wife was the voice navigation system - we have a 2004 Escalade with navigation which is way too time consuming to put in a route. The Infinity system was easy and fast. If the BMW had all the gadgets that the infinity has I would easily pay the extra 15K for it (70K vs 55K fully loaded.) I'm still going to the auto show next weekend to see if I'm missing anything, but I doubt it. Any suggestions for a comparison to the M35X?
Thanks

markcincinnati · March 2005

Possibly the Acura RL. Maybe the GS300 AWD.

jrock65 · March 2005

Also try E350 and E500 and their 4Matic variants, although they get pricy.

lexusguy · March 2005

The E lacks most of the advanced features on the Japanese cars. The RL and GS300 AWD are the most direct competition to M35x as mark said, but neither can come close to the M35's speed and handling.

cfgross · March 2005

Can anyone tell me if the rear seats fold down to open up the trunk space?

my45 · March 2005

rear seats fold down

No they do not fold down. There is a small passthrough door, but that is it.

carnaught · March 2005

Drove both today. I was surprised at the smoothness of the ride rather than overly stiff or jarring. The car tracks very well and corners beautifully with a tight turning radius. The aluminum inserts inside have a classy sporty look to them, in many ways looking more sophisticated and refined than the wood. Not sure if the wood which is matte, not shiny (i.e., with no clear acrylic covering) is treated to resist scratching and pitting. This along with the look of the wheels and other features make the sport pckg. not too unreasonable for an additional $1700. This is not to say that the non-sport is not fun to drive and a really nice offering.

Well, I took the plunge after my '01 LS430 sold this weekend, and put down a deposit on an M35 Sport with tech./journey pckgs.in umbria grey with stone leather. Due to arrive on the truck by the end of the week. I'll post my impressions and will follow others.

pearl · March 2005

numbers on either/both the M35 or M45 (or AWD)? Looking at the EPA figures, Infiniti does not seem to come off quite as well as some other manufacturers; however, as we all know, there are many factors involved here. I think that many of us would like to hear what folks are achieving on the street.

tjpyles · March 2005

I hope I don't sound condescending in any way as response to this question, but I really don't think I understand the concern here. I just purchased an M45 Sport (have been driving it less than a week so I don't have any good numbers yet). If you are concerned about gas mileage, the M is not the car for you. It does not get good mileage. But lets look at the math. Car buyer A buys a luxury car that gets 23 mpg. I buy my M that gets 18. If both drivers drive 15000 miles in one year and buy premium gas at 2 dollars a gallon, Driver A spends roughly $1300/year driving. Driving an M, I spend $1660. That is a diffence of $360 a YEAR on a car that someone is spending in excess of $50,000 to buy. Is this really a concern? OK, my tone really is not as harsh as it sounds. I do understand that many people are concerned about gas mileage as am I, and I will try to post some more exact figures once I have driven the car enough to have accurate numbers. However, I think everyone should do the math, surely you aren't worried about three to four hundred dollars over a year when you are considering dropping $50,000 for a luxury sports sedan.

merc1 · March 2005

"The E lacks most of the advanced features on the Japanese cars."

What features are those?

Carnaught,

Do you still have an E-Class?

M

lexusguy · March 2005

Lets see, adaptive headlights, a 5.1 sound system with DVD-A (you can bet the Japanese will be first with SACD capability as well) support, Advanced voice recognition and bluetooth...

merc1 · March 2005

Oh I thought you meant something major and the E does have adaptive headlights. The sound system stuff isn't a deal breaker you know German car sounds systems are lacking anyway..lol. The voice recognition and bluetooth are needed though, but honestly these aren't dealer breakers for many.

M

lexusguy · March 2005

The E's lights swivel when you turn a corner? Since when?

jrock65 · March 2005

Does the E even have an in-dash single feed cd changer? Or is it still using cartridge?

mapleman · March 2005

Motor Trends March 2005 issue showed Motor Trend received 18.2 MPG on their tests - Also rated the M35 as their number 1 pick overall -Quote " smoked the competion in acceleration tests" - over the RL,Audi, BWI 530,STS,and Jaguar. In comparison for MPG the other vehicles were 19.2,18.0,19.2,17.5 and 19.1 . Good comparison article

mapleman · March 2005

In all fairness I failed to mention on the MPG ratings - that although the STS shows the worst gas mileage at 17.5 - It is the only one of the vehicles which takes regular gas rather than Premium.

carnaught · March 2005

Merc,

I replaced my E with an Acura TL (I still have my G35, however). Funny you should mention this as in one of your next posts (#961) you mention the lack of bluetooth on Mercedes. Since I have been putting on high mileage, I wanted to sell the MB when it was more marketable. I also "needed" bluetooth and Nav. and a Japanese car (TL in this case) gave me what I wanted. I must say that the resale and ownership experience of the E Mercedes was great and I will definitely buy another MB in the future. The Benz was rock solid and secure and fun to drive compared to the more hallow light feeling TL.

Not to digress further on this board, I am hoping the Infiniti M successfully is the marriage between the cushy smooth Japanese ride (i.e., Lexus) with the spirited road feel of a German car. My initial impression is that indeed it is.

(BTW, we've at times been adversarial in the past, but it's good to have you back on the "boards"

stebro · March 2005

I drove the M45 sport and Lexus GL300 yesterday (dealer didn't have the GL430). I liked the M45 but the Lexus seemed more comfortable. On our short M45 drive, the suspension seemed too stiff and the bucket seats too hard. Do you get used to this on longer drives?

I plan to try the standard M45. From the Infinity brochure, it looks like the standard model has different seats. Does anyone know if this is correct?

One more question. I own two Mercedes. Have never owned an Infiniti. Mercedes is great about customer satisfaction, including warranty repairs and even out of warranty repairs. What has been your experience with Infiniti? Thanks!

carnaught · March 2005

Yes, I believe the M sports have bolstered seats and definitely harder than a Lexus.

Owning my G35 even though being an early model it had issues (recalls, etc.), the dealer was very accomodating and at least as good as my Mercedes servicing experience. It does of course, as with any car brand, vary with the dealer.

hpowders · March 2005

Oh man. Try a GS 430. Coming from a BMW, I was impressed. Handled great!
hpowders

carnaught · March 2005

I'm looking forward to a comparo between the GS430 and the Infiniti M45.

Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

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