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Acura TL Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • maldorfmaldorf Member Posts: 31
    What really makes me angry is how, in June 2004, Honda says that the problem was restricted to a small percentage of its automobiles and that they are doing the recall "acting out of an abundance of caution". They also claim at this time that they have found only one confirmed instance of a transmission failure related to this defect in its passenger cars. Honda still continues to deny that this is a real problem, and that nobody's safety is at issue.

        This becomes a real safety issue when your transmission decides to shift into second gear when you are traveling 65 mph on the highway, causing you to very quickly slow down to 30 mph with no break lights while in heavy rush hour traffic. I was just about rear ended. Some owners have had accidents because of this defect, and they have pursued legal action on their own.
  • svteealsvteeal Member Posts: 1
    The temp display on my '05 TL/Nav had the same problem about 2 months after I got it. I took it in to the dealer, and now it's been in the shop for 2 days. They had to order the part, and when they got it, turned out to be a bigger part and more involved than anticipated. I believed they said they had to remove the entire instrument panel. Hope this is not a sign of things to come. Will let you know how this turns out after I get the car back.
  • cherylgirlcherylgirl Member Posts: 7
    Hi- anyone out there who lives in Northern VA.-please advise me. I am in need of a good auto body repair shop!

    Last night,I was pulling out of a parking space in my condo development (trying to avoid the melting snowbank and sign) and hit a fire hydrant! The driver's side rear bumper is dimpled and punctured(the size of a melon)and the headlight above it is cracked, but no metal body damage is done. Basicallly I have to replace the bumper and have it painted, with the rear light replaced. I cringe everytime I look at it. I am new to the area and trying to find an autobody shop that will make it look like new!! Pohanka says they have a collision center, but I'm not sure about them, as I bought my car out of town. If anyone can recommend a good place for me to go, that does a good job on Acura's- I'd really appreciate your advice-especially looking for paint to match the car-white diamond parchment. Thanks for any advice you can give me.
  • tom gtom g Member Posts: 1
    If you can get to Warrenton, I highly recommend Waterloo Motors. I found them after doing research with a bunch of mechanics and dealership body shop guys who would not touch a big restoration job. They just restored my '88 Landcruiser to like new condition. You can tell a lot from the cars in process & they do everything from exotics to F-150s. Not the cheapest but the best. It is a hike from the DC area but worth it.
  • rufustrufust Member Posts: 3
    Just (last night) drove new (2-day old) TL w/ 6-speed and michelin stock tires in Massachusetts snow. My suggested answer to the question, "Do I need snow tires?" is a most emphatic YES. In conditions that were not severe (2 inches of snow, albeit very wet snow), not only did not make it up a relatively short but somewhat steep incline, but after forward motion stopped, actually slid backwards 30 feet (stopped short of trees, thankfully). Never experienced this before, at this place or otherwise. Also, have much experience with this particular incline in all types of snow with other cars equipped with snow tires; specifically, no problems in 1988 Volvo 240 (RWD) with four snows. So, IMO, I need snow tires. Problem here is not finding and paying for the tires but finding and paying for the wheels, particularly for the 6-speed with those front brakes. Today, with snow still on the roads from what I can see, I will be driving the old Volvo.
  • tedescm1tedescm1 Member Posts: 309
    To maldorf:

     

    I was not aware of this problem...

     

    I was told that there was a lubrication problem and they were going to add an oil jet to the second gear.

     

    Are you saying that the (04-TL) car transmission goes from 5th gear to 2nd gear by it self?

     

    Is this wide spread?

     

    Thanks,
  • maldorfmaldorf Member Posts: 31
    I cannot say for certain that the 04 has the downshifting problem. The transmission seems to have several different issues with it. I have seen postings by people claiming they have had transmissions replaced in their 04's but I cannot recall what went wrong in these cases. The 99 TL that I leased downshifted from 4th gear down to 2nd on its own when it died (was a 4 speed tranny back then).

      I found some info on the model years 00-02, but this info is now obsolete. Honda is doing a good job of keeping this all low key. Here is what i found, a list of the problems:

    1. Erratic shifting, flare at upshifts, wont move (5/02)

     

    2. The roughness of the third gear clutch steel plates is prematurely wearing the third clutch disks in production and requires a remanufactured transmission

     

    3. ATF leak at axle seals, roaring noise, erratic shifting (5/02)

     

    4. An ATF leak at the axle seals, a roaring noise or erratic shifting can be caused by wear [cut-off in scan], which requires transmission replacement. When the differential carrier bearing get d [cut-off in scan].

     

    5. ATF Leak – If the differential carrier moves around, the axles can exceed the range [cut-off].

     

    6. Erratic shifting – Contamination from the damaged differential carrier bearings can [cut-off] lock-up valves. A common DTC that accompanies damaged differential bearings is [cut-off] system).

     

    7. Transmission noise – Worn bearings allow the differential carrier to move and cause [cut-off] carrier-bearing contact. This often causes noise that has been described as roaring.
  • maldorfmaldorf Member Posts: 31
    I cannot say for certain that the 04 has the downshifting problem. The transmission seems to have several different issues with it. I have seen postings by people claiming they have had transmissions replaced in their 04's but I cannot recall what went wrong in these cases. The 99 TL that I leased downshifted from 4th gear down to 2nd on its own when it died (was a 4 speed tranny back then).

      I found some info on the model years 00-02, but this info is now obsolete. Honda is doing a good job of keeping this all low key. Here is what i found, a list of the problems:

    1 Erratic shifting, flare at upshifts, wont move.

     

    2. The roughness of the third gear clutch steel plates is prematurely wearing the third clutch disks in production and requires a remanufactured transmission.

     

    3. ATF leak at axle seals, roaring noise, erratic shifting (5/02)

     

    4. An ATF leak at the axle seals, a roaring noise or erratic shifting can be caused by wear [cut-off in scan], which requires transmission replacement. When the differential carrier bearing get d [cut-off in scan].

     

    5. ATF Leak – If the differential carrier moves around, the axles can exceed the range [cut-off].

     

    6. Erratic shifting – Contamination from the damaged differential carrier bearings can [cut-off] lock-up valves. A common DTC that accompanies damaged differential bearings is [cut-off] system).

     

    7. Transmission noise – Worn bearings allow the differential carrier to move and cause [cut-off] carrier-bearing contact. This often causes noise that has been described as roaring.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    Hello, Rufust:

    Similar deal with my TL/Auto/Bridgestone EL42 tires. So far the TC/VSA/ABS have kept me going but I've been very disappointed in the (lack of) snow traction of these all-seasons. I guess they're really three seasons!

     

    I haven't slid like you have (glad no damage to car or driver), but I imagine the Michelin's on the 6MT are summer tires? (not all season's), which are a disaster in the snow.

     

    Good luck, you can use the tirerack.com to research snows/wheel packages.

     

    Where'd you buy your TL? Acura of Boston or Clair?

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • rufustrufust Member Posts: 3
    Laurasdada,

     

    Thanks for the reply. They are all season tires, not summer tires. I have checked out tirerack.com and acura of canada websites. Both have alternatives, none of which is cheap (given the cost of alloy wheels, but I will probably just have to do it).

    One alternative suggested by my salesperson (Acura of Auburn; his initials are RV, best car salesperson I have ever dealt with) is to find a 16" steel wheel that would fit. The steel would be better for the bumps of winter and cheaper, while the 16" size would enable me to use a higher and narrower (as opposed to wider and low profile) snow tire for the car, which is supposed to provide better snow traction. Do not know whether I could find such a wheel and, if it would fit over those brembo brakes on the MT.

    Will let you know.
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    I have posted several times about my 6 speed 2004's steering issues. It tends to drift to the left, and steering effort to the right is considerably higher than to the left. To the left the car almost "falls into" the turn, but to the right you have to fight the car. On a long drive my right shoulder aches from holding the car in balance, especially if heavy traffic forces me into the left lane for long periods. Here's a follow-up.

     

    So far the car has been realigned twice, and the alignment is within specs. Tires have been rotated and checked on a new precision balancing machine the dealer is evaluating; the machine evidently checks for both balance and asymetrical pulling tendency in the tires. The car's been been back to the dealer four times.

     

    The car still drifts left and, more importantly, the steering effort issue remains unresolved. The Acura rep has driven the car, and states that nothing is wrong in writing (even though he acknowledged the drifting issue during a test drive). All dealer documentation states that nothing was found, but on the phone the service manager stated that he had to be careful what he said, but in his professional opinion the power steering rack should be swapped out and failing a solution there, the vehicle should be replaced. The next day the same manager left me a voicemail stating the party line, that nothing could be done and the car was within spec. I also got a voicemail from the Acura area rep stating the same. The problem now rests with the Acura customer service people.

     

    I'll post again as developments occur.
  • jlary1jlary1 Member Posts: 5
    I received my 2004 Acura TL in Nov 2003. Immediately had whining in the 20-25 and 40-50 mph range and a deep roar/vibration in the 50-60 mph range. The dealer replaced the transmission immediately with no discussion. While the new transmission is better, the car still exhibits the same general condition as before. And it has remained a very irritating experience. While I have not pushed the dealer on this particular problem, I have had the motor mounts replaced, with no help, and a set of tires at 16K due to rear end going out of alignment(they said I hit something-never done that before in my life-72 yrs). If Acura's are going to continue to have this problem I might have bought my last Acura.
  • clcurrysrclcurrysr Member Posts: 8
    laurasdada, the Bridgestone EL42 tires have NO traction in the snow. These tires do not work very well in the cold, even at temperatures just above freezing.
  • mdhaukemdhauke Member Posts: 202
    Well, they don't when they are more then 20% worn. I almost killed myself in the snow on those because I already had 12,000 miles on them.
  • mdiver65mdiver65 Member Posts: 31
    Hey guys,

     

    I replaced my tires this week on my 1999 TL (45,000 miles) with Kuhmo's 716 but I'm still having the same problem which I thought would be corrected with the new tires.

     

    Between 55mph-70mph the steering wheel vibrates consistently. I believe this issue has been addressed before and if I'm correct is just inherent with the car?

     

    Over 70mph the ride does smooth out. However, the vibration does come back every minute or so. It's like a wave (sorry for the bad analogy these days). I thought this issue would be corrected with the new tires and at least a little improved between 55-70.

     

    Can anyone shed any light as to why this happens? Thank you!

     

    Mark
  • klee3klee3 Member Posts: 57
    My 2005 TL has 550 miles on it. I've heard different mileages when people get the first oil change done. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    Let the maintenance minder do all the thinking. That's what it's there for.

     

    Why would you change oil at only 550 miles anyway?
  • rickoricko Member Posts: 22
  • rickoricko Member Posts: 22
    Since Acura has refused to recall or do anything with the defective torque converter in my own 04 TL, which is what is causing the vibration problem, per Acura District Manager for my area, in the 04 and the 05's ,I have hired attorneys to pursue a class action lawsuit against Acura.
  • tedescm1tedescm1 Member Posts: 309
    Good for you!

     

    I have the same problem (04 TL vibration in 5th gear at 45 to 64 mph). I spoke to the district manager who told me the vibration (harmonic vibration) is a characteristic of the car. He went on to say that the characteristic was corrected on the 05 models. I don’t know if that’s true. Does the 05 do the same thing?

     

    He also told me the Acura engineers are working to correct the characteristic or problem in the 04 model. I think it’s funny that they are working to correct something that they say is not a problem. Do they really think a jury is going to buy into that?

     

    I have asked for an arbitration hearing to see if they will replace or refund my money. I’m not too optimistic so I have spoken to a very large Lemon Law Firm. They advised me to take it back to the dealer three times for documentation purposes and then I’ll file a lawsuit to recover my money. I don’t want another Acura TL.

     

    How is the class action suit going to work? If it does not interfere with my lemon law suit, I will join the class action suit.

     

    PS: There is evidence that Acura knew about the problem when they sold us this defective car I believe that’s called fraud.

     

    Tell me more about your plans and also let me know what you know about the vibration problem. I live in the Phila PA. Area.
  • achadha1achadha1 Member Posts: 65
    man i hope they do something about this vibration it makes a great car feel average
  • rickoricko Member Posts: 22
    Hi tedescm1, the attorney I talked with contacted another very large firm who has a group who handles nothing but automotive problems such as this and they have looked at the initial evidence and thinks this is a very strong case and is very confident a jury would rule in my favor. They are now looking for others to join the case, I think if you were to settle with Acura under your lemon case you would probably be asked by them to sign over rights to pursue them in court, you would have to check into this. Acura rep I dealt with at my hearing, said on tape that it was still a problem on the 05. They have adjusted the suspension and have switched to the Michlen tire in an attempt to cover up the real problem, the defective torque converter which locks up in 5th gear on auto trans. When the car is vibrating in 5th gear, slide shift into manual slot and down shift to 4th vibration will stop,return to 5th and vib starts again. My opinion the engineers are working on some less expensive fix such as a liquid filled mount that will simply absorb the vib and not fix the converter which would be way too expensive for them. I worry about driving this car down the hwy and the converter locking completely up and causing a serious or fatal accident and it is very possible. I am also filing a compliant with Ky State Attorney General, they new before they sold us the car and unsuspecting buyers are still purchasing the car not knowing what we know now,a defective car. I am also filing with the Federal Hwy Transportation also the attorney that heard my arbitration case seemed fair minded and ruled in my favor, but I had not satisfied lemon law in Ky, which if I had would have meant replacement with no usage fees but since I hadn't I would have to pay 5200 in fees to get new 05 and no way I would pay that for another vibrating car. Good luck I am at ricko52@charter.net if you need anything. ricko.
  • ntt18ntt18 Member Posts: 8
    Well, the fact that Honda has not fixed the tranny issue for 6 years. It is a known issue since 99 and Honda has the balls to use the same tranny system for the new TL. As I stated in my previous post, mt 04TL engine is not sounding too good and I have owned many cars , Nissan, Toyota, Bimmer 328 , something is wrong with the TL engine. I don't believe the engine will last past 50-60k miles.

     

    Honda made a calculated decision that there is remote chance the tranny will fail completely so they roll it. As in most biz cases, unless the software can cause serious data corruption, let's release it.

     

    99% of users won't do anything or in our case, we can't return the car. Honda/Acura is still denying it when you call them. I am wondering if the problems are exclusive to the TL or other Hondas like Accord, MDX which use the same system also experience similar problems.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    How do you mean your engine is not sounding so good? Does it also run rough, reduced performance, gas mileage?
  • armandarmand Member Posts: 178
    What makes you think that it is the same transmission. Previous posting have indicated that there isn't a documented problem with the '04 TL transmission. I have an '04 TL AT with 10K miles on it. The engine sounds fine and I have never had any problems with it - but I di dislike the tires. I have probably owned 20 cars in my liftime and the '04 TL is the best values I have ever bought.
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    I've been reading a lot on this forum about TL vibration problem due to faulty torque converter. I'm wondering about the percentage of '04 TL's with this problem and does it carry into the '05 TL? Is that related to the tranny problems of the previous generation TL? Any chance it would be corrected in '06? A friend of mine is thinking about the TL and wants to be sure. Your feedback is much appreciated.
  • ntt18ntt18 Member Posts: 8
    repost - the blogger ate my previous post.

     

    Bodble2-

     

    My 04TL engine is humming or buzzing depending on your ears when starting from complete

    stop. The humming/buzzing goes away when it reaches 30-40MPH, then the engine seems

    to grind or vibrate when it reaches 45-55MPH. The problem can be easily replicated

    if I get on freeway, get the speed up to 60-65MPH then slow down to 50MPH, again

    I can feel the engine is grinding or vibrating. The best way I can describe is that

    like you are driving at slower speed but the gear box is stuck in 5th or 6h gear.

    Yes, the suspension is extremely tight on TL but in my humble opinion, it is the

    engine that is grinding and vibrating. It is almost like the engine was trying to

    find a correct gear for the speed the car is traveling at

     

    Of course, the dealer balanced the tires. Acura CS said it is normal. I can deal

    w/ the squeaking doors but not the engine. Maybe my engine issue is rare among

    thousands of engine Aucra produced. My 04TL only has 8k so it should not grind or

    vibrate. I don't push the car very hard so there is no reasons for the engine to

    grind hard. I can barely feel a pulse when driving it before but now the engine

    is much louder and I can hear the humming/buzzing very clearly.

     

    Armand-

     

    The fact Acura recalled early TL produced in 03 and early 04 tell me it is the same

    tranny system which Honda has not fixed YET. Sure the TL offers the best value and

    performance in its class but for 35k, all I want is a car w/ reasonable ride, a

    good engine that will last at least 4 or 5 years. I doubt my TL engine will last

    beyond 50K the way it sounds and behaves today.
  • dojadoja Member Posts: 19
    "...They have adjusted the suspension and have switched to the Michlen tire in an attempt to cover up the real problem, the defective torque converter which locks up in 5th gear on auto trans. When the car is vibrating in 5th gear, slide shift into manual slot and down shift to 4th vibration will stop,return to 5th and vib starts again. My opinion the engineers are working on some less expensive fix such as a liquid filled mount that will simply absorb the vib and not fix the converter which would be way too expensive for them. I worry about driving this car down the hwy and the converter locking completely up and causing a serious or fatal accident and it is very possible."

     

    This is a scary post for someone interested in buying an 05 TL. If this is generally as serious a problem as you say then wouldn't this be a well known issue by car magazines, consumer reports, radio car talk hosts...etc. I just read in a magazine that the 05 TL was expected to be among the top sedans for re-sale value. How can it have this major defect yet be on a car magazine's list as a top value for re-sale purposes?

     

    I'm not doubting that you have experienced this problem. I'm just questioning how wide spread it is?

     

    How can the TL have a defective torque converter which causes, at the very least least an annoying vibration and at most a serious safety problem without other automobile sources reporting or warning about it?
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    I have an '04 Automatic. The thing I wonder is if my TL is vibrating? Sounds like a weird question, but I haven't driven another TL, so I don't know if my car vibrates unreasonably.

     

    So perhaps my question should be whether the vibrations I feel are unreasonable AND how do they compare to Ricko and the others who say their's do. Yes mine vibrates, but it doesn't really bother me, so I'm guessing their's are worse. How can I tell if my vibrations are 'normal' versus unreasonable.

     

    I believe Ricko and the others aren't unreasonable and aren't complaining about 'reasonable' engine vibrations. But how can we quantify it?
  • photonickphotonick Member Posts: 1
    After reading abou this vibration issue, I decided to jump in the car (with now only 1,200 miles on it) and check it out. First let me say, out of the showroom I had to have the rack & pinion replaced and now we are getting a noise from the motor that sounds like bad gas, yet all we put is 93 octane or better in the car. Anyway, back to the vibration. What I notice with this car is it has a very starnge way of shifting gears. When you roll off the line, I do get a brief vibration that disappears almost immediately, but it happens. Shifting through 2nd and 3rd (we have an automatic) is where we are getting this awful valve tap or exhaust rattle and then 4th seems to be ok. Once in the car gets up between 65 and 70 is where I feel a slight vibration, nothing bad, but certainly noticable enough to confirm what others are saying. The car is going back to the dealer for now the fourth time with just 1,200 miles on it for the noise in the motor or exhaust. I will say this, we changed the wheels to 18" with Pirelli tires, which seemed to help in road noise and snow, but my biggest complaint with the car is that the cabin does not feel sealed when the doors are shut. Coming from a Mercedes I wasn't expecting to have the same quality, but for $36,000, I would expect a more quiet cabin when driving!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "When you roll off the line, I do get a brief vibration that disappears almost immediately"

     

    I believe that's the ABS self-check.

     

    I actually find the TL quite "sealed" in terms of road and wind noise, but I'm coming from other Acuras and Hondas, not Mercedes.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I find that the transmission (auto) will take a split second longer to engage when going from Drive to Reverse compared to Reverse to Drive. No unual noise or anything, just a wee bit more of a lag before engaging. Does anyone else experience this?
  • chiangjchiangj Member Posts: 17
    Oh yeah. I noticed that in both way (D to R) or (R to D) more or less the same. It is obviously longer than any other car (auto tranmission) that I have driven.
  • chiangjchiangj Member Posts: 17
    There were a few times that I had diffult in starting my 04' TL. In two occasions, I just had touchless carwash done on it then went to supermarket. After 30min, I have to crank it for almost 10 sec before it could start. Another occasion was that I tried to drive the car back home after work(The weather was humid on that day). No sure others experience similar before.
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    The 'hot car takes longer to start' issues has been discussed before. It has to do with clearing the catalytic converter so there is no backfire. While mine doesn't take 10 seconds, it does take longer than if it's cold.

     

    Honda calls this a 'normal' characteristic. Sound familiar.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Coming from a Lexus sedan, which is probably the quietest and smoothest ride you can find for the money, I'd say TL isn't bad at all, esp. on the quietness department. On an un-bumpy road, it's decently smooth. Not quite at Lexus level, which can put you (well riders) to sleep real quick, TL is quite satisfying on its own for the power it gives you. The TL suspension, however does not filter out bumpy road surfaces too much.

     

    On vibration, obviously the car will vibrate a bit when engine is on, vs. when engine is off. But I've not sensed any unusual vibration to date (only 1K miles tho).

     

    So far I really enjoy driving this car, just that I won't use it for a long trip. Will go to Lexus or a van/suv for that.
  • colecole Member Posts: 67
    I'm having 2 strange electrical issues (in addition to the standard vibration between 50-55 mph):

     

    1. When I'm low on gas, the red airbag light comes on and stays on. It goes off after I fill up.

     

    2. When the wipers are in intermittent mode, they will activate every time I take my foot off the brake. This happens even on the slowest setting where the wipers have just gone.

     

    Anyone else experience these 2?
  • tedescm1tedescm1 Member Posts: 309
    Acura will tell you that these are free enhancements to the car!

     

    Lucky you!

     

    PS: What does the dealer have to say about the standard vibration between 50-55 mph):
  • armandarmand Member Posts: 178
    I believe the wipers are speed sensitive. I know when I stop at a light they slow down and speed up when I start moving again - that of course requires that I take my foot off the brake. I do think that what you are experiencing may really be a feature.
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    The wipers are speed sensitive at the highest (shortest) intermintent setting only.
  • armandarmand Member Posts: 178
    That makes sense.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    But I think the wipers are designed to do a wipe every time you let off the brakes, no matter what intermittent setting they are at.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Speaking of SSW, I actually wonder about the logic of this feature. My ES has this rain sensing wiper whose wiping intensity is proportional to volume of rain falls, which makes good sense to me. Now on SSW, is it supposed to wipe faster on higher vehicle speed, and vice versa?

    I can accept the logic of it if the rain falls against the direction of car, but not quite if it falls vertical to the car (little wind) or at the same direction of car (wind blows to where you're heading). Am I interpreting this feature incorrectly?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    From what I have observed, the SSW is actually pretty basic in its operation. I'm not sure if the speed changes as the car speeds up. All it does that I can see, is that at the shortest-interval setting, the wipers will sweep continuously as long as the car is moving. When the car is stopped, it goes into intermittent mode. And at any setting, it will do an immediate sweep when the car starts moving.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Mmm I thought shortest-interval setting is the same as the LO setting so it'd wipe constantly, even when the car is stopped.

    Anyway every time it rains I am stuck in traffic so it's hard to tell how wiping actually relates to speed.
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    If I recall correctly, at the shortest interval setting, when the car is moving over 12 MPH, it runs at regular speed (no interval). Below 12, it has an interval. It's useful.
  • saowin1saowin1 Member Posts: 4
    hi guys
    i'd decided, i thought, to buy an 05 TL given that it seemed to offer the best combo of value,drivability, and, i thought, reliability in the under 35K hi-end entry level cars. lexus seems to be for old men, didn't care for the infiniti G35, and wasn't willing to put up with reliability issues of audi, bmw, and mercedes.
    am i wrong about this acura? this tranny stuff has me running scared. i'm gonna get stuck with that soft ES330.
    what do you guys think?
  • aaarghaaargh Member Posts: 230
    I think if you read a problems chat forum, you are going to read about those having problems.

    I have no problems with my TL and I believe I am in the (vast?) majority. I'm not saying there aren't those with problems, but my impression is they are few and far between. You just hear about them more here.

    My opinion, go for it for the reasons you gave.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    I did notice last night that when stopped, the wiping at shortest interval setting in INT did have interval vs. wiping like LO setting when moving. This feature may be already in many Honda cars already.

    Is that all SSW does on TL? I guess it's useful more because you don't get that much rain from other moving cars when stopped, vs. from the sky....
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    There're unhappy campers ready to sue Lexus or Acura after owning a new ES or TL, or maybe any car co. for that matter. I have both and so far found no reason to call a lawyer for either.

    As to soft ride vs. firm ride between ES and TL, that's very true. That said, even though my butt is not that old yet it does find the ES seat more comfy. Of course if looking manly is important, then TL will do a much better job than ES.
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