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Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL
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Comments
despite of what you feel, there is no perfect car for every people and conditions. I myself prefer to choose a car bases on more than 1 criterion. Speed is not everything and neither is acceleration or top speed. A "better" car doesnt mean acceleration only aight?
I like stats better than what people's feel/think which is intangible, hard to measure, hardly agreed on by everyone etc. You cant blame people on what they think or feel but you CAN blame them for their wrong stats.
In fact when I chosed this vehicle I didnt know that it's really fast
Times to 60 were quickest for TL (5.7s vs 6.3~6.5 for G35. 325 lags far behind)
Top speed goes to G35 (155) vs TL (152). All governed, and all figures for manual trannys
TL while not as much of a sports car had precise and quick turning, and was fun on the highway. Auto with the TL is a very good way to go since it is very smooth and the manu-matic very easy to use and intuitive.
TL - Gets up there in a hurry without you realizing it. Was at 90 when thought I was going 60. Great interior and not claustrophobic at all IMHO. Stereo very clear. Very quite interior with a very good ride.
G35 - Better handler (even seemed to hold the curve more than the 350Z). Feel the road more. Stick precise with short throws. Fun to drive. Also quite. Wish there was more storage space inside the cabin. Rougher ride than the TL, but livable. Not as fast as I would have thought, but could be due to being extremely quite as well.
Basically I would be very happy with either car and would have a hard time deciding between the two, even though I usually lean towards sports cars (ex. I am driving a WRX now).
TL - Very fast, quite, responsive steering, great Highway driver! More of the cruiser in this group.
G35 - Almost as fast (or so it seemed), very good handling and quite. Responsive and not sluggish or bulky at all (unless you compare to the RX8 or S2000 which have inferior interiors IMHO). More of a sports car and not as good a ride as the TL.
Just depends on what you are looking for.
Vehicle type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Price as tested: $35,395 (base price: $29,645)
Engine type: DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, port fuel injection
Displacement: 214 cu in, 3498cc
Power (SAE net): 260 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 260 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Wheelbase: 112.2 in
Length/width/height: 186.5/69.0/57.7 in
Curb weight: 3526 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 5.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.4 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.3 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.2 sec @ 99 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 146 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 153 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g
EPA fuel economy, city driving: 20 mpg
C/D-observed fuel economy: 20 mpg
the link is : http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article- - _id=7082&page_number=1
The previous post was titled "New Car and Driver Test" which I assumed New car test drive which is g35 coupe and no top speed test result.
The Coupe was a little more sporty than the Sedan mainly because of the seats and the stick vs. auto of the G35. Like the stick in the G35 better, like the auto in the TL better.
0-60:
TL - 5.8 secs.
G35 - 6.3 secs.
1/4 mile, not sure, but similiar.
Kevin's figures (above) are also from the same issue/test
I purchased the G35x (black/black) Sedan, Premium, XM.
First, I clearly preferred the exterior looks of the G35. Acura ruined the back of the TL and it resembles a Gran Prix.
I also liked the clean and minimal lines of the G35 interior with only one color (amber) on the dash. The analog clock is great. The TL interior was a bit busy in my opinion.
The G35 is more fun to drive and it handles better, although not all may like the greater stiffness. The radios and xm sound great in both.
The G clearly has a better exhaust sound.
The riding position the G is higher and I like that.
I never thought I would leave the Honda/Acura family, but it took a great car to make me do it.
Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. There is nothing more subjective than the styling of an automobile. As long as we are being subjective...I really like the styling of the new TL. So much so that I bought one. I doubt the G35 sedan will ever be accused of "bad styling" since it doesn't really have any style. It is another of the bland styling designs that have characterized Japanese automobiles. It is "round" looking and that is about all. I am sure it is a terrific automobile performance wise etc and the comparisons between the TL and the G35 have filled this topic for quite awhile now. I like the TL styling because it is a departure from the generic design philosophy of previous Acura's. I traded a 2000 TL for my 04 TL and never thought the 2000 TL had any style.
The 04 TL used the BMW 528i as the benchmark and the styling comparisons are fairly obvious when you look at the two cars. I just saw a 528i at lunch an hour ago and was reminded of the similarities.
The styling discussion is one that can't ever have an objective point of view since it is based on subjectivity...what we like to look at.
Beauty is also bein confirmed by 3 months all times high sales record by acura TL. Its up by 47.7 percent in only 26 selling days. Its huge.
G35 sedan sales in Jan'04 3382 units & in jan'03 2474 units
TL04 sedan sales in jan'04 5036 units & in jan'03 3279 units
BMW 330i dec'04 sales 557 units & dec'03 1263 units dropped more than 50% (germancarfans.com)
As for the G35- I personally think the rear quarters spoil the looks of this car.
The rear lights have a clownish designs that cuts into the trunk- UGLY.
The G35 sedan is non-offensive, but it just doesn't have "the look" that the G35 coupe has. To me, the only thing the G35 has over the TL is the AWD option.
When I bought my TL, the G35 and the BMW 330i (all 6-speed manuals) where the only other cars on my short list. I didn't even consider the Maxima. In case you're wondering, drivetrain type was not a primary concern for me.
I guess I was one of the few who cross-shopped the 2!
As an owner of an 02 CL the styling I happen to like the styling on my car though Acura's getting out of the bland stuff which is good.
I don't like the blandness of Lexus or the sportiness of Infinti with the exception of the Q45. Acura kinda spilits the difference in between Infinti and Lexus's styling: its a happy medium.
I do think the G35 has style but its not my style.
Finally, the 04 TL is one of the best cars Honda has every styled for its Acura division. Heck even motor trend praised the TL's looks. I can't believe an automotive magazine actually praised the looks of a TL!
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2322a.shtml
Fully loaded, MSRP can run over US$40,000! And, for that price you still can't get a 6-speed manual : (
It is a good comparo to the G35. The article ends by saying the new TL has raised the bar for it's competition to "ear bleeding heights".
I am sure the TL nay sayers will tell us that Motor Week is a rag mag and doesn't have any credibility etc. The nay sayers are running out of gas as article after article seems to validate why I bought a TL, performance, handling, luxury interior, options included in the base price, which all adds up to...biggest bang for the buck.
It sounds like it does not, and as a result should be strictly an option for people in bad weather climates.
Considering that the FX's grip increased significantly with the AWD system, I was assuming it would.
Why? more weight. It wont get much better than .87g and if it does tire selection will do more for dry pavement traction than anything. The AWD will usually never help dry traction unless the car was underequipped rubber wise or FWD.
"The reign of the Infiniti G35 as "King of the Near Luxury / Premium Sport Sedan Segment" was sweet but short lived. The new King has arrived - 2004 Acura TL. "
Ha - as long as you can deal with steering wheel snapping out of your hands every time you floor it in a turn or on uneven pavement. I guess Acura owner zeal helps overlook the wrong wheel drive issues...I still haven't figured out what ambient lighting is for - maybe it's hypnotic!
When your car grows up you are welcome to join the conversation.
This is the big leagues here, not the minors your time will come when we will call you up.
Your remarks about torque steer in the TL are typical of RWD only fans. My first question would be..have you driven a TL yet or are you just reciting the RWD mantra again ? I actually haven't seen any article yet which described the steering wheel as snapping out of the driver's hands whenever the car was floored in a turn or uneven pavement. I am sure the test drivers were pushing the car hard enough for that to happen if in fact it was going to happen. It didn't of course. The TL did get through the 600 foot cone test at 67mph which was one of the faster speeds one of the tests had recorded. I am sure they forgot to mention that the steering wheel was snapping back and forth the whole time. I guess your remarks are based on your own extensive testing. Perhaps when the wheel was snapping around in you hands it was actually your own nervous twitch because you were afraid one of your RWD friends would see you.
Exaggeration can't overcome facts. The TL does have some torque steer but nothing that seems to bother the people who actually drive one.
It would appear ambient lighting is one of the many things you haven't figured out yet.
- You are right about tire selection since the RWD G35 has Summer tires and the AWD G35 has all seasons.
Still, the FX45 AWD did pull 0.87 gs on the skid pad. The FX35 RWD pulled 0.80 gs on the skid pad. - Per C&D
The AWD system of Infiniti's actually helps handling by instantly moving power from the wheels that are skidding to the ones that are not. Great system. This is why I thought they would comment on it.
I have - a very good friend who I spend lots of time with just bought one. It's very pretty too. I have driven it for a solid weekend with him on a road trip.
"Exaggeration can't overcome facts"
This is no exxageration. Physics doesn't care what you or I think...you can't have the best of both both worlds in FWD - traction is limited when lateral forces are countering accelerating forces as they are in FWD - I know you've heard this...
"I am sure the test drivers were pushing the car hard enough for that to happen if in fact it was going to happen"
"It would appear ambient lighting is one of the many things you haven't figured out yet. "
I figured out just enough to know that RWD is the way to go for me and enough to figure out that no slalom test will ever indicate FWD torque steer issues. Are you sure you know what it is...it happens on uneven pavement or with uneven acceleration in turns or sometimes straightaways too. A cone test starts at 60 and stops near 60 - there is no real acceleration changes in the slaloming...like in the real world
Take a look at what autoweek had to say about FWD TL and the fact that the car's platform is best represeted in the appropriately powered Honda Accord. This is not the first criticicm - many comments from many of the good articles say that if you want a real sports sedan you'll be looking at a 3 series. I've quoted these above.
The point of my response was your major exaggeration on the amount of torque steer in the TL. No magazine reported anything resembling what you are so ridiculously trying to pass off as fact.
"Are you sure you know what it is...it happens on uneven pavement or with uneven acceleration in turns or sometimes straightaways too."
Yes, I am well aware what torque steer is. I drove a CRX si for 12 years and that car had torque steer. It was still a very fun car and would stay with any car in tight twisty sections. The torque steer is easily countered by applying power in a smooth fashion rather than stabbing the accelerator. Why would anyone do that in a corner anyway ? Stabbing it at the apex and accelerating out of the corner is another story but even that is manageable. It's the same as a RWD car in terms of managing the rear end under hard driving. My objection to your view is the extreme you go to when describing the torque steer in the TL. I just read a post on one of the other TL boards from a TL owner who said torque steer was barely perceptible in his TL.... it is also barely perceptible on mine. That statement is based on more than a turn at the wheel on a weekend. Your friend must have really been excited with you in the car rambling on about the torque steer in his TL and how he should have purchased a BMW.
Your comment about the auto week remark is also not accurate. I believe they made a statement that the TL was based on the Accord platform but that torsional rigidity had been increased by 25% in the TL. Perhaps you read a different article.
One recurring theme I keep seeing in a board titled G35 versus TL is some insecure BMW owner trying to tell people how superior their cars are. It is always nice to know that stereo typing is true when it comes to BMW owners. The interesting part however is that the board titled TL versus BMW is dying. Go over there and rant about the 3 series..this board is dedicated to two new cars which are setting new standards and establishing " ear bleeding heights " as motor week stated. Maybe that wasn't in the motor week article you read.
Which insecure BMW owners are you referring to that has been constantly posting about BMW? After all perceived insecurity originates from real insecurity.
The reason that board is dying because the same tired things have now been said across numerous boards. People who might want to buy either the G35 or TL want to find out something about the cars. NOT THE CARS OWNERS or opinions of BMW owners. Seems like in the absence of any BMW owners on this board, there is still the same schtick.
In the words of Pogo, for those old enough to know: "We have met the enemy and they are us!"
I wonder if it is still considered stereotyping when there is such a high degree of truth or accuracy to it?
I have a joke based on that stereotyping but, alas, it'll get zapped (again) if I posted it! Ah, you guys have probably heard it before anyway. It's an oldie but goodie.
Well happy FWD vs RWD.
It's an axiom of sports sedans and most true driving enthusiasts will agree that the best sports sedan in the world can not be FWD.
I drove a CRX for a number of years - 2 of them both si's. The thing Raher misses is that while you can adapt your turn in and throttle control to make for good turning, the back end cant be controled the way it can in a 3 or a G. Start to lose a crx, which had some weak lateral limits, and you can't do a thing except plow and try not to spin out. In a RWD - press the gas and that little fanny comes right around and the accelerating forces are now pushing the car along it's merry apex exit way. It's something you can't live without once you experience it. Crx days are over for me...theres a better way.
You have misquoted Pogo...his statement was "we have seen the enemy, and he is us."
There are no enemies here...only people with differing opinions. Some based on facts and data, others based on pure opinion.
Thanks for giving us some of your valuable time since you haven't posted here in awhile. Always nice to be judged by the best as in your statement.....
"Well I haven't posted in this forum in a quite a while and it seems you guys are still having the same pros/cons of FWD vs RWD. So that fact you need to talk about competitors vehicles, even though nobody has mentioned any competitors vehicles in a while, says something."
Please don't leave before you set us straight as to what we should be discussing here. Let's see, G35 versus TL...no, I still can't find 3 series anywhere in that title.
How can you bring a underpowered, undersized car into this conversation.
I think you should be comparing the S4O to the TSX or Mazda 6.
This is a totally different class my friend.
How could it be an issue for a TL owner if he/she bought the car - I hope it's not an issue for you. AS for the sterring wheel jerking out of my hand - it usually was tempered by the traction control that was on quite alot in some sprrited manuevers.
Look the car is nice but its no King
see some of the average comments that the G lacks:
Acura TL Comparisons:
"The Acura signature grille could easily be mistaken for that of a Toyota Camry Solara." -- AutoWeek
"[Steering] still lacks the telepathic qualities of the [BMW] 330 or the [Lexus] IS 300." -- Edmunds.com
"Firmer ride than the Lexus ES 300 and Infiniti I30." -- Consumer Guide
^ thats funny