Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Acura TSX
Audi A4
Infiniti I35
Lexus ES330
Saab 9-3
Volvo S40
Volvo S60
Also, I am cross-shopping Prius with the following family sedans:
Honda Accord EX
Toyota Camry LE
on the build a Toyota, it says that the fully loaded Package Combination #3 is limited, Package Combination #2 is Limited, and Package Combo #1 (nothing) is Limited too.
http://www.challengebibendum.com/cm/servlet/servletViewBlob?objId- =515&name=ACT_PDF&artId=101&lanId=2
Although Prius got the award under production vehicle category, it is interesting to note that the noise level of Prius got a C rating (Camry PZEV got an A) which is contrary to what I learnt from this forum about the beauty of Prius' stealth.
If you want to do a comparison discussion, start one. How about "Toyota Prius v. Corolla - which is more economical?"
Let's keep this discussion mainly on track of the Prius (sure you can have a few comparisons, but let's not veer too far off).
It's a document containing a summary of all the contributions other owners have shared, stuff y'all here have asked about.
VOICE-RECOGNITION commands are all listed. I was surprised to see all the location/destination commands that were available. There's a whole bunch of navigation commands too. Then of course, the climate-control and audio system have some too.
INCREASING MPG is an obvious popular topic, one that will very likely stir some discussion here.
SS/SE is a new topic. Please share comments about that. It's very much a learning process right now, discovering new abilities as you use it.
TIRE CARE is something to address too. We learns lots about them from the classic Prius. So I'm curious what owners of the 2004 will do with that knowledge.
GLOSSARY will definitely help with discussions here. (We tend to use abbreviations a little too much.)
BLUETOOTH phone connections to the 2004 Prius are very new as well. We know of only a handful of phones that work so far. (I'm going to getting one of them soon myself, so I'll be contributing my findings about that here.)
Anywho, you get the idea. There's a bunch of ideas in the documents that we can discuss here... which have nothing to do with the OFF TOPIC content we've had to deal with lately.
JOHN
___You should really use your down button more often so I wouldn’t be subjected to your OT non-sense as well but since I know you will read this and you have the latest MT, what was the 0 to 60 mph stats on the 04 Prius as tested? I have read about 10 seconds before the Prius was released, 10.5 seconds now that it has been released, John1701a has said his does the dash in 9.9 seconds w/ maximum pressed up tires, and someone said it will do something else? Great news about the 04’s braking distance. Those are world class numbers by any stretch.
___As for the SP III, why haven’t you graduated to the Pocket PC and any number of higher quality SW NAVI solutions including Mapopolis? Not only is it much less expensive, reroutes are completed in seconds, you gain adjustability of hundreds of features, your contacts and the addresses of those contacts are imported from Outlook, has Navtech based maps and POI’s that are not outdated (May of 03 in my case), it can hold your mileage or other excel spreadsheets, is a nice E-Book/MP3/Divx player when you are away from home, and can be updated with the click of a little button on a device called a mouse I guess you spent more money then needed on a NAVI device without knowing the facts. For those not purchasing package #9 in your 04 Prius, a Pocket PC based NAVI solution works excellent. I use a Panavise mount, an HP iPAQ 2215, Mapopolis, and an i.Trek mouse based receiver all hidden with the actual receiver opposite the rain sensor in the MDX. In the Corolla, I use a Casseopia w/ an i.Trek CF based GPS receiver. It will get you to where you want to go with voice guidance far better then any Atlas or local map as anyone that has used a HQ OEM based NAVI solution will attest. I highly recommend one to all Prius owners even as a safety device because on a trip, you really don’t want to get lost in a shadier side of town if you know what I mean.
___Leeear, the 01-03 Prius had some rather high dB output in comparison to the Camry/Corolla contingent irregardless of stealth at hwy speeds (almost twice as loud). Today’s Toyota engines aren’t audible when driving down the road except under heavy acceleration and with the new 04, I would have to say they improved upon this shortcoming. The Camry’s 68 dB at hwy cruise is really a breath of fresh air compared to my 70 dB and the older Prius’ 73 dB anyway.
___John1701a, you brought up acceleration of the Matrix and then said no one wanted to speak of it? So you asked, I provided what I could and then you tell us it’s OT?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I agree, that kind of acceleration is rarely needed--but since you took a lot of trouble to collect all the 0-60 data, I thought maybe it was important to you.
As long as we're discussing 0-60 times, let's give the Prius its due. Two different drivers have reported here sub-10 second 0-60 times on brand-new Priuses. I'm sure they didn't use the same techniques the folks at, say, C/D use to get maximum acceleration out of test cars, as those are pretty hard on cars (e.g., rev the engines with the brakes on and then squeal away). So it will be interesting to see what those pros can squeeze out of a Prius, but not as interesting to me as what real-world drivers can get with less aggressive techniques. The Consumer Reports times will be interesting too, since they aren't as aggressive on their acceleration tests as the car mags are.
As for posting the Corvette times, I did that for two reasons: first because someone was actually thinking about moving from a Corvette to a Prius, and second to point out that there's lots of cars that are way quicker than the Prius. But as you pointed out very well, that kind of acceleration isn't needed in the real world--yet I think some people "feel the need for speed." They won't be impressed by the Prius.
I was really more interested in the braking performance that djasonw reported from MT. (BTW djasonw, you might want to use your scroll down key if you haven't already, this goes on awhile longer ;-) ) The MT test corroborates the short emergency braking distance I experienced first-hand the other night. To me, excellent stopping ability is more important in the real world than blistering 0-60 times.
As for the noise level of the Camry vs. Prius, I can see how the Camry would be rated quieter overall, especially if the Camry was a V6 (I tried the link but it came up as a blank page for me). The Prius is silent while on electric power and quiet when cruising on the highway, but the little 1.5L four is pretty raucous when going all-out. So if the noise test looked at maximum decibels and not some sort of average, it makes a lot of sense that the Camry is rated quieter. When I get my Prius, I'll try not to floor it in residential areas. ;-)
P.S. The Autosite page xcel referenced has a typo (even the pros make mistakes sometimes). I looked at the original article in MT and it says on p. 76 the ECHO they tested has a 4-speed automatic and went from 0-60 in 10.0 seconds.
The system is not full duplex. Both you and the other party cannot talk at the same time like your regular speakerphone. Audio quality is very good if your in a good reception location. The touch screen deal pads is temporarily disabled if the car is moving. Once you stop, say in a traffic red light, you can use the dial pad. You can receive phone calls even when the car is running by pressing the "lift handset" button on your steering wheel.
Take note that the "bluetooth" feature on the phone uses more battery juice. Your stand by minutes may be shorten.
___Thanks for the refreshing post I tried to come up with all the 0 to 60 times for a number of Toyota’s because as mentioned above, John1701a said that the Matrix not only accelerated slower but that no one was comparing it to the 04 Prius. I only wish I could have found the XR w/ Auto’s times. I am glad you went back to the Echo’s performance data linked from Autosite. The 0 to 60 run matched what I posted. I only wish they didn’t typo the CVT/ECT item. You used to own an Echo, didn’t you?
___As for the car magazines 0 to 60 times, this is the only way a comparison can be done. I believe MT, C&D, R&T etc. will have little to no variance in their 0 to 60 blasts from vehicle to vehicle and year to year whereas many here that have never done 0 to 60 blasts without scrutiny will have numbers all over the map as has been shown in this thread alone. Who do you believe? Someone that received 9.9 seconds with 44 #’s in the tires to 60 under whatever conditions with a stop watch in one hand possibly or Autosite’s car magazine gathering data capability across a range of Toyota’s from a range of professional car magazines over any number of recent years? The one item I don’t trust from the professional car magazines is there fuel economy data. They never come close to the EPA estimates in the Economy cars and Hybrid’s in particular. It appears that they just don’t know how to drive them to maximize fuel economy is all.
It more then likely shows they are beating the H311 out of their test vehicles during their tests which is unfortunate given no one will drive an economy car or any car for that matter like that.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
At low rpm, it feels stronger then any other 4-banger Toyota. At high rpm, only the Matrix XRS carries a significant advantage.
And then ask yourself, how much time do you spend above 4000 rpm in normal driving? Probably not much.
For daily driving, low revs, Prius compares favorably to any of those cars.
-juice
As little as possible! Actually, I usually keep the revs on my Elantra under 3000, which is possible because the torque is strong. If I did 4000 rpms in my minivan, it would probably say, "Hey, cut it out!"
Yes, safe performance is what I'm looking for in a family car, and I believe the Prius delivers that. If it were too slow to get out of its own way, that would be another thing.
As for the auto mags driving the h*ll out of cars--well sure, that's what we pay them to do for us, so we can all live vicariously from their experience! And I don't think they give a hoot about maximizing fuel economy. But it's interesting I think that even the testers at CR don't seem to know how to drive a car to maximize fuel economy, at least not in city and mixed driving. Their highway numbers are usually pretty good, but nowhere close to what I can get on the same cars in city/mixed driving.
And no, I never owned an ECHO. It's a good little car but a little small for my needs right now, and IMO not a good value loaded up with popular options.
There's more to automotive enthusiasm than drag-strip performance and race-track times. Although most of the cars on our 10Best list reward and encourage spirited acceleration and handling, this one makes a game out of fuel efficiency. And--surprise!--the game is fun.
The brief article also mentions a 0-60 time of 11.3 seconds. C'mon, C/D--you can do better than that! Or maybe they were too busy watching the screen, trying to see who could get the best mpg. ;-)
Those posting on the "up to the chore" topic would be furious by that quote. To them, acceleration & handling is all that matters... and they've used C&D in their defensive many times. Now the tables have turned!
I told them that someday "enthusiast" would also apply to fuel efficiency. Ha!
JOHN
0 to 35 or 30 to 55 --- there's a couple of numbers that real people driving real streets in the real world can relate to.. and there torque matters.
There's much more to the hybrid story than the green aspects and I think it scares the heck out of the horsepower crowd.
Imagine a car with econocar busting gas mileage, outstanding traffic performance, great equipment and options, good handling and safety and rock solid reliability.
I think we're there now.
> Those posting on the "up to the chore" topic would be furious by that quote.
___I don’t think that at all but I know a few that will The Game Gauge in the MDX and the FCD in the Insight are a heck of a lot more fun then 0 to 60 but you should never disregard 0 to 60. With the 0 to 60 numbers out, I saw Consumer Guide tested their 04 Prius at 10.5 seconds in their 0 to 60 measured run Pre/Post-release so the 04 Prius is still the slowest to 60 of the Echo, Corolla, and Camry. As a counter point, who cares I was very happy to hear of the 114 ft. - 60 to 0 with the GoodYear Integrity’s that Backy provided however.
___Djasonw, so you are a mindless jeep lover? It’s too bad you never took a glance at the JD Power Initial Quality Survey’s or the NHTSA/IIHS crash tests over the last few years. You might have made a more educated and safer automobile decision then to drive what you are driving currently. I don’t love my Corolla as you love your Prius and seriously shopped the Civic LX, and Ford Focus but at least I weighed the facts before I purchased unlike when you purchased the 04 sight unseen with no repeatable performance or otherwise reviews/tests to verify anything. New and Used car salesmen/woman love it when an individual like yourself walks through their door because they don’t have to do anything to steal your money. You mentioned the 30 to 50 type numbers as well. When looking over past performance numbers of all the Hybrid’s including the 01-03 Prius, HCH, and Insight CVT and 5 Speed, they got trounced in that category as well. I can only hope the 04 Improved or it’s not worth mentioning as a positive.
> Imagine a car with econocar busting gas mileage, outstanding traffic performance, great equipment and options, good handling and safety and rock solid reliability.
___That sounds just like the Toyota Corolla LE for ~ $15,000 loaded up? You know, relatively quiet at hwy cruise, 43.5 mpg on the hwy with 20 to 50 degree temps, 5 star crash ratings, much less expensive compared to the Hybrid powered Prius loaded or otherwise. I just cannot fathom someone trading in a perfectly running 01 Prius for an 04 and paying $17,000 + the car? That is more then I paid for my car out the door including tax!
___Backy, did the 04 Prius review have any dB measurements at 50, 60, and 70 mph? I am interested in those numbers as well.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Personally, I find the Prius styling to be a refreshing change among a sea of bloated Camcords and 300 hp SUVs. The Prius is the kind of car that I'd expect from Honda, unfortunately Honda must have their design center in Dullsville.
___From the Consumer Guide 04 Prius review:
Steering/Handling/Braking:
“Steady, predictable, but twisty-road hustling betrays early marked body lean and limited grip from skinny mpg-oriented tires. Tight turning circle a help in parking lots. Crosswind stability seems much improved over prior Prius. Electric steering feels a bit light and artificial. Stopping power okay, but brake-pedal feel heavy and dull.”
Quietness:
“Better isolated from all noise sources than previous Prius, and at least a match for Civic Hybrid. Toyota's engine still gruffer than Honda's, especially at full throttle, but revs smoothly.”
Room/Comfort/Driver Seating (front):
“Head room adequate for lanky 6-footers, but maybe not rearward seat travel. Low dashtop, tallish windows lend spacious feel. Seats nothing special for shape or support. High tail, downsloped rear window impede driver vision behind, but not seriously.”
Room/Comfort (rear):
“Bench seat set low and is just economy-class comfortable, but leg space rivals that of Toyota's roomy Camry sedan. Sloped roofline leaves an inch or so of head clearance for 6-footers. No-strain entry/exit, as in front.”
Value within Class:
“The '04 Prius leapfrogs the rival Civic Hybrid for room and performance, and is competitive in fuel economy. But both are still high-tech alternatives to regular economy sedans, with higher initial cost that will take years to recoup in fuel savings. That's true even with the one-time $2000 federal tax deduction for buyers of hybrid vehicles. But full credit to Toyota for making its "green machine" a noticeably more mature, pleasant, and useful all-round family car without raising the price.”
___Does that help?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
The C/D 10Best article I saw today gave only a very short synopsis of each car and didn't cover things like interior noise levels.
... but at least I weighed the facts before I purchased unlike when you purchased the 04 sight unseen with no repeatable performance or otherwise reviews/tests to verify anything.
Yes... kind of like I did when I bought the redesigned '01 Elantra in October 2000, before there were any reviews/tests out on it. Stupid me! I bought it based solely on my opinion of the car, and based on research related to but not specific to the car. I've been very happy with it. But since you are obviously much smarter than I am, I won't bore you with further conversation. Goodbye, sir, and good luck to you.
___I did the same with a Pre-owned 85 Mekur XR4Ti almost 15 years ago That was the last car I ever owned without doing some research
___As for being smart, you are speaking with the wrong guy. Just an average Joe car enthusiast. Facts and figures are very dear to me as you can tell however.
___Djasnow, you mentioned 125 ft. 60 to 0 and footie mentioned the 30 to 50, sorry.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Also, is there a way to track an order after we've placed a $500 deposit?
Prius is sort of the opposite, more relaxed and very functional.
These articles are overlooking some very, very important benefits of a hybrid:
* range (not just mileage, range!)
* HOV access (pass Vipers at rush hour)
* total silence at "idle" is very luxurious
* no sales tax, at least in MD, saves you 5% up front
To me these are all significant, perhaps more so than pure fuel efficiency numbers.
-juice
At $24k, you're saving $1200 in MD up front, no waiting for April 15th.
Locally, they are considering closing off some roads, like Rock Creek Parkway, I wish they'd make them HOV or hybrid only instead.
-juice
As for tracking orders, I don't know how to track them myself but my dealer has a tracking sheet and knows exactly where my order stands, and all I need to do is call or email my sales rep and ask him where I am, whenever I want. I'll probably do that once a month until the delivery date comes nearer.
Thanks.
> Anyone shopping for a Prius in the SET zone should check online
> inventory to get the lowdown on which cars have what. The last 4
> digits of the VIN are given.
___For the Coloradoan’s amongst us, the Prius is a steal We are speaking of a $2,600 tax CREDIT against ones Colorado State Income tax + the Federal $2,000 deduction ($560 to $620 off for most).
http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/html/income09.html
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
The good news is that that there's NO mammoth distributor in New England like there is in the Southeast and Gulf States. (That's good news because the market here is competitive on a dealership by dealership basis and the Toyotas don't come loaded with gimmicky 'port' options like they do in the SE.)
The big distributors are the ones that put up the regional inventory and make it available through the individual dealerships.
Here in New England, you need to develop a contact at a Toyota dealership. They can look up regional inventory and scheduled delivery on their computer system.
You can also shop outside of New England. The Baltimore and Washington Toyota market is very competitive and not controlled by a family distributorship like the entire SouthEast.
Fusz Toyota in St. Louis has 3 pkg 7 Prius - 2 Pearl and 1 Red.
I didn't look beyond these two dealers, but if you look around in the midwest ( above TX and OK) perhaps you can find one in Silver.
Good shopping.
motor oils, in particular Mobil 1 (0-20). Also max tire pressure 44 psi to see
if there is a substanial miles per gallon increase. I know with my 94 Honda Civic VX I
picked up about 2 MPG by going to Mobil 1 (0-30) weight.
Alster 2
By the way I recently calculated the overall fuel economy in my '03 Prius to date. At 5400 miles, I've averaged over the total, just about 48.5 mpg. I am very pleased!
Ed Headington
___John1701a did exactly that but he’s driving right into the heart of late fall/early winter MN. temperatures with a vehicle that is not even close to broken in yet. He may not see much of an improvement until the automobile sees 5 to 20,000 miles and it warms up above 50 degrees or so. Running maximum pressures in higher mileage Toyota’s has left their owners without a loss (actually a gain) in mileage through this cold period and I would suspect the same with a Prius after they have truly been broke in.
___Another small suggestion although I do not have any firm evidence that it is true or not Listening to the banter over on Bobistheoilguy forums, many believe you should run the break in dino oil until at least the first oil change at the OEM recommended mileage. It will help with the break in process. According to many over there, Mobil1, Amsoil (uses Mobil1 base Stock), or Redline are actually too good to make sure the initial break in process has advanced to a point where Mobil1/Amsoil/Redline or whatever else will give you its great long life wear properties. Again, this is only commentary coming from the key boards of many automobile maintenance enthusiasts that hang around over at that site.
___Another 04 Prius - Full review http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2310.shtml
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Have you viewed the Toyota Prius: Prices Paid and Buying Experience thread? The last few posts had some leads for new purchases in the lower Midwest if that helps
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
As for discounts... given that you want a Prius in the next three weeks, I think you will be very lucky to pay just MSRP for it.
But of course, you can use the handy "page down" key to move through any posts that aren't worth your time.
Here's the short & sweet instructions for that particular phone:
1) Select "Add Phone" button in the "Settings" menu on the Multi-Display.
2) Select "Connectivity", then "Bluetooth", then "My Devices", then "New Device" on the phone.
3) Enter the passcode when prompted. (On T610, the default is "1212").
4) Select "My Devices", then "Hands Free" on the phone.
Both with my 2001 Prius (44/42 PSI & 5W-30 Castrol Syntec) and with my 2004 Prius (44/42 PSI & 5W-30 Mobil 1).
The gain of several MPG is pretty obvious. With the 2001, I maintained 50 MPG all throughout last summer. That was pretty sweet! And the tires weren't even LRR, they were just oridinary Goodyears.
JOHN
This is an extremely popular topic with many view points. Agree to disagree, be civil, etc.