Toyota Prius

funpilot · November 2003

Do you read all the posts in all forums? Just curious, as it would seem to be almost overwhelming if it is just you. Which is your favorite forum?

backy · November 2003

If you want a Prius in April or May, you might want to order it soon. In my area at least, the backlog at all the dealers I checked was running 4-6 months. As for prices falling in April or May--I think that's anybody's guess. The way things are going now with orders, it's possible the entire 2004 model run will be sold out by early next year, unless Toyota increases production.

funpilot · November 2003

The only two squawks I have are an occasional base vibration from the speaker in the driver's side door. And, on two occassions, it would not go into drive when I first started it but I think I moved the handle too quickly. Waited a couple of seconds, tried again and it worked. Otherwise, seems trouble free. I did not have the check engine light, any apparent allignment problems, or any other issues I have read on other boards. What are your findings?

backy · November 2003

How are you finding the cargo cover holding up? It seemed a little flimsy when I looked at it during test drives. Do you use it?

greyscale · November 2003

Could anyone comment on the safety of a Prius v. that of a Mini Cooper? I have narrowed my buying choice down to these two cars. All I read about is the great gas mileage. Nowhere do I see anything about safety, especially as compared with other cars.

xcel · December 2003

Hi Greyscale:

___The Mini Cooper tested well in NHTSAs crash tests w/ 4 Star ratings across the board other then the Side Impact - Rear seat with the testing body saying it was too small? Under the IIHS ratings, a (G)  Good rating was given across the board other then an (A)  Average rating for Restraints/Dummy Kinematics whatever that means?

___In the case of the 04 Prius, nothing has been tested although I thought I remember reading somewhere that Toyota expected to receive 4 to 5 Stars across the board in the NHTSA tests.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

talleyid · December 2003

Ordered 11/7 from Newbold Toyota in Fairview Heights, IL Driftwood Pearl / #9. Got a call today that the vehicle is built and schedule to go to port today! Woohoo! Possible delivery before Christmas.

___Prius vs. Mini Cooper I would suggest that you also review the Consumer Reports evaluations on vehicle reliability. I was interested in the Mini Cooper but their evaluation, plus a friends experience with British vehicles, turned me away.

markjenn · December 2003

I looked at the Prius but have a Mini Cooper S on order. Both cars have a full array of safety equipment and the Cooper has crash-tested well. I'm sure the Prius will also. While you can always find differences in safety scores, I don't think it is a significant differentiator between these two cars.

As talleyid said, the Mini is doing poorly in reliability ratings and I expect the 04 Prius (like most Toyotas) to do well, although there is always some risk down the road of there being some serious flaw in the hybrid design. Any car can develop serious problems, but overall, I'd consider the Prius a very good bet.

Much of the Mini's problems are probably attributable to early teething of a new German design, but we need more miles on the newer models to know if things have improved much. I doubt it has much to do with it being assembled in the UK - it's basically a German car. If you decide on the Cooper, go in with your eyes wide open. The fun-to-drive nature of the car was so overwhelming to me that I decided to accept some risk.

- Mark

carguy1234 · December 2003

Has anybody rented an 04 Prius through the TRAC program? I'm in the Twin Cities area (south burbs)and am interested in an extended test drive, so TRAC seems like a nice option. However the closest I can find around here is St Cloud. They do have cars available (for about $35/day).

Do any of you other MN people know of a closer in Toyota dealer that has TRAC rentals?

Thanks

wwest · December 2003

and test our Prius right now and if it sacrifices braking HP during severe/panic braking in favor of battery charging it's gonna get TORCHED, immediately.

But truthfully I suspect long stopping distances are more the result of smallist contact patches, and maybe some contribution from ABS, rather than regeneration.

john1701a · December 2003

> if it sacrifices braking HP during severe/panic braking in
> favor of battery charging it's gonna get TORCHED, immediately

Recharging DOESN'T EVER GET USED when you hit the brakes hard. The entire regen system is completely bypassed, allowing you to use traditional braking instead. It's all automatic. Just slam the pedal to the floor like you would in an actual emergency.

JOHN

johntpr · December 2003

Thanks to all who helped me. I wound up ordering a silver Prius with package # 7 from a dealer in PA today. They said 8 weeks....we'll see ! It is so strange how dealers in New York, and the New England Region can't get certain packages, yet they are common in other areas. I really didn't want to give up the stability control and HID headlights offered with package #7 and these 2 features are unavailable with package #6 even as add ons.

texassalsa04 · December 2003

I rented a TRAC Prius from Friday to Monday and had a great time with it. I am in Texas so I would'nt know of dealers in your area. I highly recommend renting one for a few days to get a feel for the car. My total bill was a little over $90 and it is well worth it if you are going to end up buying a $20,000+ car. With the rental, I got to really see how fast the car really is off the line. Punched it a few times and was very happy with the accelerations. I am now a Prius owner and happy to have had the chance for an "extended" test drive with a TRAC car.

wco81 · December 2003

Not a standard car rental, it sounds like.

backy · December 2003

The USA Prius has only auto-off lights. Maybe the Canadian version has auto-on lights, but the USA version does not. There as been quite a bit of confusion and misinformation about this subject.

Maybe it's the definition of "auto-on" that is the confusion here. When I test-drove the Prius (U.S. version), the headlights not only turned on automatically when I started the car (meaning I had to do nothing to make them turn on, they just did), they also shut off automatically when I stopped the car and shut it off. To me, that is both "auto-on" and "auto-off".

As for DRLs, I guess I fail to see a major difference in utility between a "DRL" and the Prius' auto lights feature. Well, maybe there is one big difference: there's no chance with the Prius that you will try to drive at night with only the DRLs on--instead you'll have the full lighting on whenever the car is on.

Re braking, how about the 60-0 in 125 feet that MT recorded? That's pretty darn good for a family sedan! It compares well to cars like the Civic Si (128), Protege5 (124), Camry SE (126), Golf GLS 1.8T (126), and even the BMW 330i (127). (All per MT tests)

xcel · December 2003

Hi Backy:

> Well, maybe there is one big difference: there's no chance with the Prius that you will try to drive at night with only the DRLs on--instead you'll have the full lighting on whenever the car is on.

___With DRLs, you dont turn anything on or off. They are on all the time. Except for the High beams of course. That feature you do have to turn on and off with a pull back of the stalk in most vehicles.

___As for wanting DRLs or not, many MDXers have attempted to wire up their lights for pure DRL operation given they are simply auto on/off with the light sensor now. One moderator even had a small fire flare up a few months after the mod was performed

The reason why is safety of course. The Canadian purchased MDXs have DRLs hard wired due to the countries local laws but it is not a simple bypass and dump the relay unfortunately.

___As for the 04 Prius 60 to 0 braking performance

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2310.shtml
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2133a.shtml
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2104.shtml

___Heavier vehicle, same tires, same suspension and braking HW.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

mpgman · December 2003

Sat in a new 04 Prius over the weekend. Could not believe that there is no driver lumbar support and no driver's side seat height adjuster. Come on Toyota! What does that cost and how little does it weigh? This is ridiculous in a plus $20K car. Also, the high load deck under the rear hatch severely constricts what you can fit back there unless you don't need the rear seats. For those who are wondering, there is no leather option. I was told that it weighs too much! I suspect it might have something to do with being a "green" car.

jchan2 · December 2003

I'm sure the lines are less in my area, as everybody likes and wants the Sienna and Prius, and the dealers are BUSY BUSY BUSY!. I may be able to order one up in Feb and get it in June, for a late delivery and possibly a slight discount. I haven't done much shopping yet, but after Christmas I possibly will.

john1701a · December 2003

> Could not believe that there is no driver lumbar support
> and no driver's side seat height adjuster. Come on Toyota!

That is quite intentional. Toyota did exactly the same thing with the previous generation. They limit features so only the die-hard consumers will purchase the initial allotment. And not only did that work before, it is also working now.

Toyota did announcement that more features would be available as time goes on.

This approach helps to keep misconceptions in check. You'll also find it interesting to learn that this is how they were able to create a used market; otherwise, some would be unwilling to part with such a well built vehicle that is fairly new still.

JOHN

funpilot · December 2003

I have no real opinion on it because I do not use it much. Seems adequate but I reserve comment if I ever use it.....

backy · December 2003

I agree with mpgman on the seat height adjuster--even a simple manual adjuster (like those found on cars like the Kia Rio for example) would help make the driving position more comfortable for a wider range of buyers. As for lumbar support, I actually thought the standard seats have good lumbar support. And it's easy to add more support with a lumbar cushion. Same with the leather--easy (if a bit pricey) to add aftermarket. You may be right about the "green" image of the Prius and the lack of leather as an option, but I'll bet Toyota won't keep leather off the option list for the RX330-based hybrid. It's harder to add a seat height adjuster, unless you replace the entire seat (also an option I suppose).

As for the load deck height, keep in mind there has to be someplace to house the batteries, spare tire etc. But there's also the "hidden" storage compartment that, if you were to leave the cover off all the time, would increase the height of a big part of the cargo compartment by a few inches--with the sacrifice of no flat floor. When you think about it, even with a fairly high floor there's still a good amount of room back there, with the option to fold one or two seatbacks down. More space than in many of the cars that have been compared to the Prius on this board. If it's not enough space, there's the upcoming SUV hybrids from Toyota et. al. to look forward to, and eventually even the Sienna is supposed to get HSD.

Sylvia · December 2003

Please remember - you can mention the dealership name, city/state but no "bird dogging" with the mentions of sales associate names or "tell him so&so sent you."

john1701a · December 2003

> As for lumbar support, I actually thought the standard seats
> have good lumbar support.

My Taurus had one. My Prius didn't, and I didn't notice. The default shape fit me quite well anyway.

> But there's also the "hidden" storage compartment that,
> if you were to leave the cover off all the time, would
> increase the height of a big part of the cargo compartment by
> a few inches--with the sacrifice of no flat floor.

Besides removing the cover, you can also remove the compartment itself. The whole thing pulls out. In fact, that's actually how you reach the spare tire underneath.

JOHN

shenkar · December 2003

TRAC stands for Toyota Rent-A-Car, the Toyota dealers in-house fleet of rentals.

little_pogi · December 2003

My job requires me to occationally go up rooftops or attics in houses. I found that the covered cargo area is a perfect storage area for my 10.5 ft. Telestep telescopic ladder. The space right behind the back seat is just about right for my 12 ft. folding ladder. Two ladders over 10 feet long fits inside my 04 Prius without the back seat folded down. Even my coworkers who uses pickup trucks(they once made fun of my decision to get a Prius) were just amaze on how I got those ladders and tools to fit inside the Prius cargo space. A $10 vinyl cargo mat from Walmart keeps that original carpeted cargo mat clean.

texassalsa04 · December 2003

...I remember reading somewhere here or on another board, but I can't find it. After about 200 miles on my Prius, I notice some rattling in the back area, possibly behind the back seat in the cargo area. Has anyone else experience this? the posts I remember reading said it could be the back license plate. I check the license plate and it's not that. I really would like to find the offending rattle and kill it. Please let me know if anyone has a suggestion...Thanks, Tony.

eheading · December 2003

It's interesting that some people are upset about the lack of lumbar supports in the Prius seats. Both my wife and I have back problems and cannot tolerate lumbar supports! So we love the Prius seats. In fact last year when we bought our '03 Prius, one of the reasons we did not buy the Honda Civic Hybrid was we couldn't tolerate the lumbar supports in their seats.

z9z9z9z9 · December 2003

I looked at an '04 Prius on the lot a couple weeks ago, and I must take exception to Edmund's review which claims "excellent build quality." The car I looked at had panel gaps between the hood and the front fenders that were so wide that I could get my little finger in there. It looked more like a Saturn in this respect.

rcf8000 · December 2003

I agree that the Prius does not need "lumbar support". Some idiot in the auto industry back in the '80s determined that everyone needs "lumbar support", and car seats have never been the same since. I have a 2004 Camry with power lumbar adjustment, but even in the minimum position it's a bit too much. I don't see how anyone could tolerate it in the maximum position.

markjenn · December 2003

rcf8000, if there is any part of the human anatomy where individuals vary it is backs and backsides, with huge consequences in seating comfort and outright pain.

Just because you don't need lumbar support does NOT mean that others don't.

- Mark

backy · December 2003

As I said, it depends on how you define "auto-on" lights. We obviously disagree on that definition, so how about we agree to disagree and move on?

footie · December 2003

Johnptr

It's my understanding that the Toyota distribution system is driven by the dealers and/or the regional distributor. It's not a matter of 'can't get the package', they can, but from outside their region.

The big dealers here in New England like Boch and Chambers, work with Toyota USA sales and decide on the packages they want to have shipped here in general. Because of that here in NE you can't get a #7, only the base unit or pkg 3, 5 or 9. If you want a 7 you have to go to PA, DE, MD or VA or the midwest.

In Delaware you can get only 4, 7 and 9.

As you point out, this is truly odd because it keeps the really valuable addition of VSC away from a most desirable market in New England unless of course, you drop $5K on pkg #9. Get the drift?

They did the same thing with ABS for the Matrix. You can get it on the XR 2WD 5 spd or auto in Central Atlantic, but not NE. Duh? In NE you have to buy a 4WD Matrix to get ABS.

talleyid · December 2003

I think that last correction about salespeople was for me.. Sorry didn't know, just trying to help people find information. I've found that many salespeople are completely uninformed about this car. If someone's interested in those that I've found that can provide information they can contact me directly.

Buying Info -- I ordered my vehicle November 7, 2003 from Newbold Toyota in O'Fallon, Illinois. I was called yesterday by my salesperson and told that the vehicle was built and scheduled to go to port. I may have delivery before Christmas.

xcel · December 2003

Hi Backy:

___DRLs are safer are they not? It is one thing to auto dim your interior lighting and such with exterior ambient going away (the Corolla does this as well) but not having exterior headlights on at all times as is the case with DRLs is a mistake.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

drscientific · December 2003

For those considering a 2004 Prius with long-range driving in mind, the following may help you.

My wife and I just finished driving across the U.S. in three days and had no problems. The best part, of course, was the five- or six-gallon fill-ups. We alternated the driving in shifts of around 260 miles and were pleased that our gas stops were quick and inexpensive.

Even driving at 80 mph across Texas and Oklahoma, the gas mileage was above 40 mpg. In areas where we had to slow to 65 mph, our gas consumption was close to 50 mpg! The climate control worked perfectly, and the other systems were also good. Despite driving for 3-1/2 hours at a time, the seats were comfortable.

The only problem we encountered was the gas gauge being a bit off. It would read at, say 30%, when the fill-up would take 6.5 gallons (out of 11.9 gals). We'll have it checked at a dealer when we can.

Portions of the trip involved some extensive up and down slopes with our top elevation being at 7,300 feet. Only the gas mileage suffered a bit during the long upward grades. The car had plenty of power to keep us going at the cruise control speed, whatever it was (up to 80 mph).

We carried some substantial luggage, a cat (along with litter box), and food for the trip. Yet, we had room to spare. We really liked all of the storage spaces in the car. For two people, the space is ample and comfortable for a long trip involving 15 hours per day of driving.

z9z9z9z9 · December 2003

It's not just the Prius; other Toyotas that I have looked at recently have panel alignment problems. And I _do_ consider panel alignment to be a fair measure of build quality. If the manufacture doesn't care what the outside of a vehicle looks like, what sort of build quality do they have in areas that you can't see?

I recently looked at five '04 Solaras on a dealer lot. Three of them looked fine, one was so-so, and one had a hood that so misaligned that the gap on the drivers side was over twice as wide as the gap on the passengers side. This could have happened in shipping, but I've not heard of this before. I wonder how it ever made it past final inspection?

It's not just Toyota. Early VIN 2003 Accords had door alignment problems, as did early VIN 2004 Maximas. The current model Altima has been in production for two years now, and it's still common to find misaligned hoods on cars sitting on dealer lots. Everyone knows about GM, Ford, and Chrysler, so I won't go there...

The only cars that I've seen recently that have consistent panel alignment are Madza and Hyundai.

The moral of the story: it appears to take about two decades for urban legend to catch up with reality. If you decide to buy a Honda, Toyota, or some other car for it's superior build quality, you better go out and look for yourself before you buy. Walk down the line and check as many cars as you can. Unlike the credit-card size panel gaps you see in new car brochures, you may find something different on the lot.

footie · December 2003

If I remember right, the guy that runs Georgetown ran the joint GM/Toyota plant at Nummi in CA before coming to KY ago in Spring of 2000 (during the UAW union drive).

Ever since he left NUMMI it's quality numbers have gone up while Georgetown KY hs gone down. Georgetown got JDP broze last year while Nummi was gold.

Given that the Toyota Production system can be run at almost any level of defects from the low at Lexus down to the current Camry/Solara levels, it's pretty clear that his assignment has been to increase production and lower costs. Production rates can increase and costs get lower when tolerances from suppliers and in-house work teams are loosened.

Toyota knows exactly what's its doing. Only the more observant consumers with prior Toyota product experience would even notice. Remember that for most Ford, GM and Chrysler owners where we've stepped down to is still a big step up for them.

The best built Toyotas are already on the road.

xcel · December 2003

Hi Footie:

___I was just watching a show on channel 11(Chicagos PBS) early this morning in regards to something similar. I wish I could remember the name of the show but they did a case study on the Japanese transplants and then went into detail on Toyota transplants into Kentucky in particular.

___Here is the case study in a flash

___The Toyotas built a few years ago were of such HQ vs. their domestic and other counterparts that they would last a very long time but were prohibitively expensive while attempting to achieve the stellar 0-defect results. What the domestics did was take the Toyota - Lean Production method (not mass production like the US used to do it) and achieve good enough results without spending the money to get to those final few defects eliminated. Its the final 20% of any process defects that cost the most to remove (a guess as to the percentage) Anyway, since Toyota was starting to lose money (early 90s), they had to change or face the Domestics (Ford/GM) eventually buying them out as they did with just about everybody else except for Honda and Toyota. What Toyota ended up doing was reduce quality just enough so that the average consumer would not notice if possible. It would save/did save Toyota tens to hundreds of millions of dollars by stopping the attempt to remove those final 20% of defects imbedded in a production process. This does not mean they are not attempting 0 defects in future process but what it does show is that they slowed or reversed the 0 defect policy to become profitable where needed. Toyota still makes some of the best cars on the planet. Lexus 76 problems per 100 vehicles is still a good deal better then Cadillacs 103 (2nd on list) in the last J.D. Powers 2003 Initial Quality Car Survey earlier this summer but everyone is heading for a profitable balance rather then full steam ahead towards 0 defects as the Japanese in particular were attempting in the late 80s/early 90s.

___Toyota was actually listed number 9 on the list which included such names as Cadillac, Buick, and Mercury from the domestics, Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, from the Japanese, and Porsche and BMW from the Europeans being ranked higher.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

backy · December 2003

The best built Toyotas are already on the road.

Maybe, but you won't convince the people surveyed by J.D. Power & Associates in their recent Initial Quality Surveys. For 2001, 2002, and 2003, Toyota dominated these quality awards, while showing improvement over that timespan. In the 2003 report, J.D. Power noted:

Newly launched/redesigned vehicles from Hyundai, Toyota and the Chrysler Group also record better initial quality on average than the models being replaced.

Which seems to indicate that the quality of Toyota's vehicles is improving over time, not decreasing.

BTW, in the 2001-03 surveys, the Prius was 2nd in its class in '01 (Corolla was first), tied with Corolla for 1st in '02, and 1st in '03 (Corolla was second). I guess that could mean either the Prius was improving, or the Corolla was slipping--or a little of both. But they were good enough to top all other compact cars for all three years. Also, in 2 of the 3 surveys, the ECHO was third, and the Prizm (Toyota/GM joint venture) was third the other year.

jchan2 · December 2003

good luck. And if you do get it before 1/1/04, then you get the $2000 tax deduction instead of the smaller $1,500 deduction.

rpgolfer · December 2003

drscientific- Thank you for your mpg results from your trip. I'm considering buying a Prius, Camry or Corolla. I'm fascinated to explore the technology of the Prius, but at the same time I really want the disguised trunk space of the Camry to hide my golf clubs. Along with of course, the comfort and amenities that the Camry offers. I looked at the Corolla for the gas mileage (EPA 29/38) and I'm sure I'll top 40 mpg.
But I wonder what it would be like on a lengthy trip for driver comfort.

I have a couple of questions re the Prius:
1. Could a person sleep in the Prius and still keep the doors locked if the fob is inside with him?
2. How long after you walk away from the car do the doors lock?
3. Do the rear seats fold completely flat or more like a 70 deg angle?
4. How good is the sound system at freeway speeds?
5. How are the insurance premiums on the Prius?
6. Re discrepancy in fuel gage indication vs actual gals needed for fill-up: Does the tripodometer jive with either gals needed or fuel gage?

midnightcowboy- I'll have to start looking for those gaps you mentioned. Salespeople/dealership don't really squat about quality control. Thank you for the observations.

footie- I totally agree with your mention of how quality has slipped. I believe that Toyota is still outselling and outbuilding their Amer/Euro counterparts, but profit margin (greed) has crept into their workmanship as customer loyalty will indicate.

How are the freeway noise level differences between Prius, Camry and Corolla?

Thanks to all-Happy Holidays, too!!

missmyaudi · December 2003

1. What's the matter. . .does your golfing habit get you kicked out of the house frequently? Yes, you can lock the doors with the fob in the car.

2. Doors do not lock automatically by walking away from the car. Either have to press the button on the fob or press the button on the door handles/hatchback handle.

3. Don't know. Never tried. I still have to figure out if my road bike will fit in the car. It will be close!

4. Sound system is great at highway speeds (I have the JBL system).

5. I live in $$$ MA. My insurance premium is probably not representative of most folks. It is relatively inexpensive.

6. This seems to be a recurring issue with most owners. The last fuel indicator box will flash after only approximately seven gallons of gas have been consumed (despite an ~12 gallon tank). My 04 Prius has never taken more than 9 gallons of gasoline (7 to 8 gallons on average). It's almost as if someone's lunch box was left in the gas tank taking up 4 gallons of volume.

Frustrated, I once filled the tank and waited for that last box to blink. This happened after only 320 miles driven on the full tank. I decided to push the limit. I figured at 40mpg (very, VERY conservative) with a 12 gallon tank that I should be able to travel ~480 miles. I ran out of gas after 446 miles and luckily coasted to a nearby gas station. Still the tank only took 9 gallons of gas. It does not make sense. I feel Toyota has a little issue to address.

Build quality is very good.

I find the car very comfortable (more so than a Camry). I drive 150+ miles per day and find the comfort/features to be surprisingly excellent.

There's plenty of room to hide your clubs.

john1701a · December 2003

> with a 12 gallon tank

That isn't actually the capacity though.

It is 11.9 gallons at ROOM TEMPERATURE.

In the cold, aka WINTER, capacity is reduced. During the peak of the snowy season here in Minnesota, I've estimated that the bladder in the tank (used for reducing evaporative emissions) shrinks enough to reduce capacity by 1.5 gallons.

JOHN

john1701a · December 2003

> 1. Could a person sleep in the Prius and still
> keep the doors locked if the fob is inside
> with him?

If you press the DISABLE button for SE/SS, the doors can't not be unlocked via the proximity detector no matter where it is.

> 2. How long after you walk away from the car do
> the doors lock?

About 2 to 3 feet. The range is impressively limited.

> 3. Do the rear seats fold completely flat or more
> like a 70 deg angle?

With weight applied, they lay completely flat!

> 4. How good is the sound system at freeway speeds?

Sweet! (Of course, I have the premium system.)

> 5. How are the insurance premiums on the Prius?

There's no real difference from another other vehicle. Fortunately, being a hybrid doesn't equal to higher premium.

6. Re discrepancy in fuel gage indication vs actual gals
> needed for fill-up: Does the tripodometer jive with either
> gals needed or fuel gage?

Using the ODO is all I've ever done for the last 3 years (2 different Prius) for guaging when a fill up is needed. That method is far more accurate compared to dealing with the fuel level (which changes with the temperature).

JOHN

djasonw · December 2003

I have been SO busy at work, I haven't had much time to read the manual in its entirety. I know John would be an expert on this, so if you feel so inclined, please reply.

When I get to my destination, I always press the button on the door handle to lock the door. Is the system desgined to LOCK the doors when I walk away with the fob? I thought that was the case, so when I first picked up the car I tested it. Apparently the door was still open when I returned. I had my friend stand over one hundred feet away with the FOB so I can test to see if the door had indeed locked. So.....for the last month I have always locked it with the button. Is there something I have to set? TIA!!

john1701a · December 2003

Sorry, the best I can do is assume the alarm system locks it just like it did for my 2001. I haven't had a chance to try it though.

Since 12-volt battery drain was always something you needed to be aware of in the past, I got in the habit of using the easy-confirm by just locking via the remote. Now I do that via a black button on one of the doors.

JOHN

rpgolfer · December 2003

missmyaudi and john1701a
Thank you both for answering my questions. No, my wife hasn't thrown me out of the house...yet. I'm planning to take a L-O-N-G trip around the country next year and although I don't plan to sleep in a Prius, I was just curious. Does the Prius not use a metal gas tank? I'm thinking about either a Prius, Camry or Corolla as mentioned before. I am concerned about driver comfort. I plan on playing a fair amount of golf during my trip and I just want some security for my clubs. It looks like I may have to bribe a new Prius owner with a little gas money to be able to test drive one. I looked at the Corolla trunk size and it just may not work for me. Keep the advice coming, I appreciate it very much.

talleyid · December 2003

I don't know it from experience but I was told the exact same information by a St. Louis salesperson that is the local "representative" for the Prius at public presentations, etc. for organizations such as the Sierra Club and local news.

He informed me that the bladder did in fact fluctuate based on climatic conditions. It's primary purpose is the containment of all fuel emissions contributing to the extremely low overall emissions rating for the vehicle. He said that I should expect aprx. 1.5 gallons less capacity during the colder months here in the midwest due to this.

john1701a · December 2003

> The bladder shrinks by 1.5 gallons in the winter.

It is a well known fact among owners.

It is also noted that temperature causes a capacity reduction in the owner's manual Toyota provides.

Lastly, owners in the Europe (where there isn't a bladder) have reported their fuel gauge is dead-on, regardless of temperature.

> This is very disconcerting, something is amiss.

Why? EPA estimates are temperature specific too.

What's the big deal? The effect is extremely predictable, just simply look at the temperature displayed on the Multi-Display. The lower the temperature, the higher the reduction.

JOHN

drscientific · December 2003

I haven't driven it to empty yet. Still, the 3-gallon discrepancy is about right for an 8.6 gallon fill-up when gauge light is blinking.

Comfort on long rides was no problem for us. Not everyone's body is constructed the same way and may not feel as comfortable as we did.

We have the regular sound system. Really, the road sound (and engine sound) is low in this car. The sound system was excellent.

Incidentally, make sure you get the new version of the transmission. Mine just had a problem. I'm having it replaced when I get back to California.

Toyota Prius

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