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Comments
John should know as he has many many miles of hybrid experience in all kinds of weather. Perhaps he will elaborate on his butter analogy as I am curious too.
___Good Luck
____ David (LOL)
Forward movement is significantly easier using nothing but electricity when it's hot out. You don't have to feather the pedal to keep the engine from starting up. You can actually push fairly hard and still remain in stealth mode.
So think of it as pushing the car over the butter. It takes very little effort and you won't feel anything, just a smooth glide.
> Does this mean there is a loss of control
NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST! LET'S KEEP THIS MISCONCEPTION FROM EVER SPREADING. Perhaps the butter reference is misleading... Wayne's suggestion of "like budder" is much more appropriate.
> Does this mean that the interior sound level approaches
> that of a Lexus LS430 or 68 dB when crusing at 80 mph ?
Stealth is only up to 42 MPH. And the noise is typically below 10dB. No, that's not a typo. Literally all you hear is tire & wind sound. The propulsion system is DEAD SILENT, since the engine isn't running.
JOHN
Sweet example! I have actually heard rustling leaves while gliding along in stealth (while searching for a new photo location and enjoying the day off from work).
I've also listened to conversations at a distance while driving through a parking lot. People don't even realize I'm approaching from behind. So as a polite way off drowning out what I hear and cluing them in to my presense, I'll turn on the radio softly. They hear that over the almost completely absent sound from the car.
JOHN
People, get off the personal attacks. The discussion is about the car. If you don't like another member, cool it and agree to disagree.
A number of posts were removed from the discussion this morning. I did NOT send our courtesy email stating why your post was removed...if your post is gone you can conclude that it was uncivil and contained personal attacks/swipes at another Town Hall member.
The Prius is an amazing technological advancement in the automotive world that is allowing people to skip stops at the gas pump. Let's not forget that. Posting in this discussions assists prospective buyers by giving them insight to the ownership experience. Let's not forget this either.
Funny, but unfortunately people might get the wrong idea from it--like the Prius is actually dangerous to be around. I don't know.
I really appreciate your detailed descriptions of the tire change and how the car handles. Do you think larger rims would help handling, or are the tires more important? And would larger rims hurt gas mileage more?
I 2nd the notion that the total silence at low speeds adds to the luxury aura. When they drove it up to me before my test drive, I thought to myself - not even a Lexus is that silent!
-juice
If one were to add larger wheels, I'd be careful to get the lightest available while, together with the appropriate tire size AND WEIGHT, maintaining about the same rolling radius as stock. That will usually result in a larger tire contact patch that should help handling and braking (depending on tire choice), but hurt fuel economy through induced drag. I think it's worth it considering all the gains posted previously, and my belief and experience with the concept of active safety. By that I mean handling and braking enhancements allowing the driver the chance to maneuver away from potential trouble instead of just nailing the brakes and hoping for the passive safety systems to deploy, which usually gets messy.
As always, my 2¢.
I have noticed my on board computer says I was getting 38 miles per gallon while operating for those 232 miles. SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.
WHERE IS MY 50 MPG?
I live in Southern California, so cold isn't the problem. I have been doing very short trips, up and down hills, but I did the same in my 1991 Infinity G20 and still got close to the mpg promised. Plus I make up on the downhill what I spend on the uphill. Anyone got any thoughts/suggestions?
I am a very unhappy camper.
Climbing hills with timid pedal pressure hurts too. You'd be surprised how much overall efficiency will improve if you climb briskly instead.
Soft tires impairs MPG too. Make sure you are running the absolute minimum of 35 PSI front 33 PSI back. More like 42/40 is what I recommend.
JOHN
This is my first post. I did a search, but didn't find enough info about people who drive in the mountains and downshift. I live in Denver and would be routinely driving in the Rocky Mountains. Would like to hear from those who drive on real mountains and how the car responds. Does the "B" mode work adequately on 10-15% downgrades? Thanks for your responses.
Of course, it is no where near the fun of racing through the gear box.
___The only dB measurement I have seen of the Prius of any online review was in the Edmunds review What is this 10 dB non-sense?
2004 Prius:
Db @ Idle: 53/lo
Db @ Full Throttle: 71
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 74
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
How did they achieve that?
The 2004 Prius rarely idles, so the value should actually be ZERO.
JOHN
___Here is a repeat of the post in the other thread for you
> “Since the 2004 Prius rarely idles, so the value should be ZERO!”
___Do you have a clue as to what you just said? No automobile could achieve 0 dB unless they weren’t running, they were traveling 0 mph, all mechanical and electrical HW was off, and you had a way of stopping the flow of blood in your veins because your heart would have had to stop while the test was performed all in an anechoic chamber! Even then you couldn’t reach 0 dB unless you were actually dead (opposite of life) while sitting in the front seat of the 04 Prius while all the systems were completely shut down in the anechoic chamber.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I ALREADY RESPONDED TO THIS SAME POST ON THE OTHER TOPIC THREAD.
The point was Prius doesn't run. Hybrids shut off the engine, hence no idle.
JOHN
Doesn't bother to define just where "north" is.
Does the manual say the element is part of CK? Is there a separate fuse indicated, and if so, where is it located and what is the rating? Is it a higher capacity fuse than a Prius without the element? I looked at all of the stickers on my car tonight, but not the fuses, and saw no reference to CK or an element. Nor was there CK listed on the invoice or Monroney window label. Maybe we can figure out if we all have CK and the aux heating element. I'd be surprised if I didn't. Thanks in advance...
Jan.... 40.9
Feb.... 41.0
Mar.... 43.2
Apr.... 46.1
May.... 47.1
Jun.... 47.5
Jul.... 47.8
Aug.... 48.2
Sep.... 48.6
Oct.... 46.5
Nov.... 44.6
Dec.... 41.5
Those are the 3 year (59,827 mile) monthly averages with my 2001 Prius in Minnesota.
Notice how efficiency and warmth coincide.
JOHN
I ordered a silver with #9 package on Oct. 22. Still waiting.
Two questions in light of your postings:
In light of the postings on this forum, I plan to change the tires. Is there a reason the only tire mentioned has been the the Potenza RE950 195/60 HR-15 rather than say Michelin Hydroguards, X-1s, or Harmonys or GoodYear Aquatred IIIs?
Do you have any sense of whether in California (where, where I live, in winter, temps range from 60 to 28) and in summer from 50 to 90), how much the bladder will reduce the tank's capacity? And is it worth trying to figure out if there's a way to remove the bladder or even change the tank to a European bladderless?
I also read, on this forum that one person found that door trim strips make it look more attractive? Anyone else have the same experience?
> GoodYear Aquatred IIIs?
Here in the Midwest, tires designed specifically for better water performance are of little interest. I've never known anyone to by them and they aren't really advertised. My guess for the reason is that they don't do well on snow & ice.
> how much the bladder will reduce the tank's capacity?
You may not ever experience it. To even notice it, the temperature has to no more than 35^F at the moment of refueling AND the gasoline stored in the underground tank must be cold. (In Minnesota, the ground freezes solid and stays that way until the end of May.)
At about 20^F, the effect becomes evident enough to notice without effort.
The real capacity loss doesn't actually kick in until the temperature dips below 5^F.
For you in CA, the only bladder problem you'll likely ever have is the fact that yours is smaller than the one in Prius. So you'll have to stop even though gas isn't needed.
JOHN
As for colors, I had made Salsa Red Pearl my first choice on the order, but then I saw another Toyota in that color and the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I would like a lighter color on the Prius. The Toyota site that lets you see the car colors may help, if you haven't used it yet. My favorites are Millenium Silver and Tideland Pearl, but since I don't like the grey interior that comes with Silver I changed my order to have Tideland Pearl as the top choice, with Seaside Pearl second and Silver third. A practical consideration for me with a red car is the road salt used in my area in the winter, which looks hideous on a dark car even in small quantities but not as bad on a light-colored car. I've found with other cars that silver does a good job hiding road dust, and salt spray.
The sunset photos here show both of my Prius parked next to each other. And next to my Silver 2004 is a Salsa Red 2004.
Sorry, you can only see part of and the lighting is close to dark. But that's better than nothing. Someday I'll be able to get better photos, and of all the colors.
JOHN
I could've gone with either the Michelins or Potenzas, and have had good luck with both brands previously. I've been pleased with my choice, and surprised at their competence in snow.
About colors, I had a MS on order, but went to a long-lead preview and saw all the colors next to each other. I switched to SRP mainly for the beige interior, but also like the look (in direct sunlight) of the four-step very expensive pearl paint process...for no additional charge. Certain German makes charge thousands extra for pearl paint. MS will hide dirt better, but I didn't care for the monotone exterior/interior combo. The darkish SRP also highlights the futuristic LED tailights, HID's and polished-look wheels better than lighter colors. It all comes down to personal preference. At least with a SRP, trust me, in ultra-green Oregon you won't blend in with a Prius. This car gets almost as much attention as my MR2 Spyder did at it's debut.
I agree with john1701a on the "futuristic" aspect of Millenium Silver--how many red starships do you see? 8-)
sharke - I got to spend some time in the front passenger seat while my wife was at the wheel, and IMO the passenger seat felt even more comfortable than the driver's seat. The thigh support was good and the lumbar support was great. I didn't recline it (my kids were behind me).
And John, in addition to your authoritative advice, a sense of humor: "In California, with the Prius's long cruising range, worry more about your bladder than the car's." Brilliant!
Re tires, tirerack.com has (to continue the genital allusions) orgasms over the Michelin Harmony and X-1. And its treadwear is longer than the Potenza. Any reason not to prefer to Michelin or Aquatred (which isn't just for rain.)?
HA! That's an understatement!!
It reclines so far back that you can actually get it COMPLETELY FLAT.
That allows the back seat to fold down on top of it, which provides over storage room of 8 FEET.
So yes, it reclines "fully".
JOHN
I would think that most of the gas pumped in the U.S. is the same temperature most of the time when it comes from the tank to the pump and then begins expanding or contracting depending on surface temeperatures.
How does that affect the thinking about bladders etc.
And John, in addition to your authoritative advice, a sense of humor: "In California, with the Prius's long cruising range, worry more about your bladder than the car's." Brilliant!
Re tires, tirerack.com has (to continue the genital allusions) orgasms over the Michelin Harmony and X-1. And its treadwear is longer than the Potenza. Any reason not to prefer to Michelin or Aquatred (which isn't just for rain.)?
Capacity measurements have been performed in the past without documenting the temperature. So I just wanted to point out that pump source is important, like using room temperature gas inside a service garage. After all, that is what makes direct contact with the bladder.
JOHN
Go to the Toyota site, Find PRIUS, Click on pictures and then colors. You will see a picture of the Prius with all the colors that are available in small boxes below it. Click on a color and the car picture will change to that color. A cute way to do it. Remember that the accuracy of the color depends to a great extent on the quality of your computer.
Can anyone tell me what the "vehicle stability system" does and how it works?
I am supposed to get my car at the end of this month. Very exciting. I need a new toy.
> does and how it works?
VSC is similar to ABS in concept, except it activates while driving rather than while braking.
If you take a slippery corner too hard, it will automatically detect that and counter the slipping by applying the brakes for you (even though you are touching the brake pedal) and only the side that needs it.
It's a assistance response, just enough to help prevent you from slipping into a dangerous skid.
So far this winter, I have actually only triggered it once. It was on a hard right turn up hill with heavy traffic behind me, a corner that is difficult even when the road is completely clean & dry. A light came on and there was a beep. I couldn't even feel what the computer had done for me.
It works so well I actually worry a little bit about people abusing it by intentionally taking risks they normally wouldn't.
JOHN
You mean on the Prius, or in general? I actually think silver is a lot more common than red. It's understandable, since it hides dirt, but to me silver is the color that blends in with the crowd. Do you have any data on the most common colors of the Prius?
In general. I see a lot of Camry that color.
> Do you have any data on the most common colors of the Prius?
Nope. But like you, I believe silver is the popular choice for Prius... currently. And that's probably just due to all the promos using that color. Once consumers see the others, the mix will likely become more balanced.
JOHN
I don't know about the other studies, but I've read that Toyota's study was comparing accident rates of the same vehicle with and without VSC. From what I've heard, ABS hasn't proven so useful in the real world--the speculation is that people become overconfident when they have it. VSC and side-curtain or other head-protecting airbags both seem to have a real benefit, and it's great that you can get them on the Prius without having to pay for every possible option. It's hard to find VSC on any car in the Prius' price range. VW offers it as an option on all their models. It used to be an option on the Focus, but that's been eliminated because people weren't buying it. In Europe, 50% of vehicles have VSC, vs 6% in the US. Europe also has much lower highway death rates than the US. Here, people just by an SUV because they "feel" safer, instead of actually learning anything about highway safety. Okay, now I'm ranting, so I should stop. But I think VSC should catch on, and it's definitely something I'm looking for in my next car.
"In general. I see a lot of Camry that color."
Now that you mention it, Toyota has sold a lot of darkish-red cars. My 1990 Camry is dark red, and my parents have a new Sienna and an old Previa in similar colors. I haven't seen the Salsa Red Prius yet, I had the impression it was a little brighter than the red on my car, which is kind of dull. Your picture of your silver Prius on your home page is great, by the way--it catches the colors of the sunset.
Does Seaside Pearl look brighter in real life than on the Toyota website?
If yours is less than or near to this, you may have defective transaxle.
> the Toyota website?
It's actually darker, a deeper blue.
The online color samples aren't all that accurate when viewed on the typical monitor.
JOHN
Now how did Toyota of Seattle get 11 cars in one shipment? (they were all sold of course)