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Toyota Prius

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  • quasar4quasar4 Member Posts: 110
    --About the oil changes, I was listening to the venerable auto guru Goss on his radio call-in program a few weeks ago when that same question was posed. He practically ripped the guy a new one when the caller said he had the oil in his new car changed after a 1000 miles. I believe his words were something like this..."You changed the oil?? Oh whyyyyy did you do that?! We have enough pollution in the world and it's totally unnecessary --in fact you could be doing damage to your engine --or at least reducing the life of it-- because auto manufacturers put special additives into the oil specifically designed to handle the break-in period."

    --So there you have it! What's good for the environment can also be good for your car...and your wallet!
  • quasar4quasar4 Member Posts: 110
    --Thanks for the info, prius4meus. I thought my highest fill amount was 10 gallons, but after rummaging through my gas receipts, I discovered that the high was actually 9 and 1/2 gallons....9.516 gallons to be exact.

    --Might be interesting if you hit a trip odometer when the first fuel warning pops up to record how much of the reserve you've eaten into before fill-up. Which brings me to my next post...
  • quasar4quasar4 Member Posts: 110
    --Any takers for answering my "How much of a reserve does the '04 Prius have?" question (post #3230)? Any guesses?? A search found post #2906 (page 146) that suggested there was a 3 gallon reserve. Apparently it was surmised that Toyota engineers wanted to play it safe and prevent people from running out of gas and possibly causing damage to the system. Seems plausible. If the 3 gallon (or thereabouts) reserve is true, it has some rather interesting implications...
  • rpgolferrpgolfer Member Posts: 157
    I find it amusing that this "guru" would rip somebody because he changed oil at 1,000 miles. There are people who religiously (I used to be one) change oil EVERY 3k mi - rain or shine. I know that the lubricating properties DO break down after being exposed to heat from driving or acids from time between changes. In the old days we used to change oil at 1000 or 1500 miles to rid the engine of the metal shavings that were generated by the engine "breaking in". Remember when oil drain plugs had a magnetic tip? With modern engines with computer precision milling and tolerances there is less need, hence engines routinely are lasting 100,000 miles or more before any major work is necessary. As far as this guy citing pollution sources, there are so many sources of pollution. Most oil changes done today end up in a recycling center to protect underground drinking water sources. Theoretically, if you changed oil monthly your engine could last forever, but practicality is important. I also don't believe that manufacturers would go out of their way to add additional ingredients to "get by" the break-in period. Every nickel they can save, they will.
      I guess the bottom line is it's YOUR investment, protect it the best way you see fit. My son and I decided to change oil ourselves to save $$ and spent $26 for oil, filter and air filter compared to at least $35 at the "quickie" oil change business. They deal in bulk but I honestly believe their filters are "seconds". I've read so many reports about these places over-filling crankcases, gear boxes and creating a host of problems. Also, I love it when they say they "top off" all fluids. The Prius is VERY picky about what kind of coolant is added, so if straight water is added to the coolant and windshield washer resevoir, the effectivenss of the fluids are diminshed rather than enhanced. Oh, gone are the days when we could do so much "hands on" with our cars. Our own oil changes always included topping off fluid levels with the correct fluids, oiling the hood latches and hinges, lubing the car yourself and the most important ingredient, TLC.
    Rich
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    I finally found a gas station selling LOW CARB fuel for my Atkinson Cycle Prius. On this tank alone I am getting MUCH better mileage. Shell seems to be the only station selling this LOW CARB fuel.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Did the gas station sell you some low-carb Coke or Pepsi to go with that?
  • gscheil1gscheil1 Member Posts: 72
    Sorry Folks! I can add as well as divide. My post was as information only. I really tried to get in as much gas as I could account the bladder. I usually don't go to that extreme. I am very happy with my mileage, I only wish I had started to document every tank since I got the car in November 2003. I have started to record every fill-up since about 1,500 miles on odo. By the way, when I filled up, my battery was down to 2 pink bars.
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    What is low CARB fuel? Is it low sulfer gasoline? I wonder how it can lower the emission even further.

    Dennis
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    According to the EPA report I read. The Prius has a 9 rating in all states except CA. In CA it gets the best rating which is a 10. Maybe the CARB fuel mentioned brings the Prius up to the 10 rating?

    I thought I would move this interesting article over to the Prius board. I have a couple questions. What has been the experience in cold weather with the heater. They mention in the article that it was not as toasty in the car as a conventional gas vehicle. 2nd. Are strong cross winds a problem for the Prius as the article makes mention? Good article sounds like the place to see lots of Caribou.

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/jamesbay.htm
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    It was a pun which went wild. I was referring to the Atkinson cycle engine and low CARBOHYDRATE fuel. CARB (aka Cal Air Recourses Board) was not my intention. So.. now I learned something!
  • azstanazstan Member Posts: 74
    I have a 2004 Prius with package #9 and 10,000 miles. Took it to the dealer for 10,000 mile service last week.

    The icon for "hybrid vehicle immobilizer / Theft deterrent system indicator light" starte flashing. This had never happened before. It would flash until I put the "key" into the slot...then it would stop.

    Anyway...took it back to the dealer. The tech supposedly ran diags on it (they had it for about 1.5 hours). I was told that this was natural and indicated that the system was armed.

    This never happened until after 10,000 mile service. Wonder if they "tweaked" it. Anyway...it still flashes.

    Now I notice that outside temperature indicator is nowhere near what outside temperature actually is...before it was no more than 3 or 4 degrees off.

    Am I going mad?
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Sounds like : NTF or PCWT

    NTF = No Trouble Found
    PCWT = Problem Cleared While Testing

    In other words they don't have a clue and can't repeat the problem to actually fix what caused it.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > The icon for "hybrid vehicle immobilizer / Theft deterrent system indicator light" started flashing. This had never happened before.

    Simple, all along you haven't had SE/SS enabled. That act of running the diags turned it back on.

    If that indicator doesn't flash, that means it isn't active.

    You'll find the manual enable/disable button under the steering-wheel. And STOP inserting the fob! Now that you have SE/SS enabled, take advantage of the wireless & touchless ability package #9 provides.

    JOHN
  • azstanazstan Member Posts: 74
    Darn...I had been driving that thingwith the SE/SS disabled for 10,000 miles! When I bought it, it was disabled and I did not know the difference.

    Makes me wonder what his going to happen next.
  • rfruthrfruth Member Posts: 630
    might be time to RTFM (read the fine manual ((or some other F word )))
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    "What is going to happen next"?

    Nothing happened. There are settings. They can be enabled or disabled. The only thing that happened (or didn't happen) was that you didn't learn about your vehicle.
  • azstanazstan Member Posts: 74
    Well...I learn something all the time about this vehicle.

    I am still somewhat aprehensive about the cost of maintenance. Especially when I was told it would take all day and $40 minimum to run diags to find out why a light was on that at first was not on.

    Time will tell...I hope this car is as dependable as the other three (camrys) Toyotas I have owned.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Only $40? That doesn't seem too expensive to me--relatively speaking. A couple of years ago the "check engine" light lit up on my Elantra. I knew it couldn't be a loose gas cap because I am very careful about tightening it. So I called the dealer. They said they would charge a $75 diagnostic fee, and if it turned out to be a problem with the car, the fee would be waived and the repair would be covered under warranty. But if the problem turned out to be a loose gas cap, I'd have to pay the fee. They suggested I wait a few more days to see if the light went out, since the car was running normally. The light did go out the next day. Turned out my DW added a couple of gallons of gas one day without telling me, and didn't tighten the cap enough.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I got an email today from my Toyota sales rep with a spreadsheet that has exacting detail on the Prius waiting list, broken down every which way. The bottom line is that I am now #4 overall for package 3s, but #1 for my first color choice and no worse than #3 for my other color choices. The bad news is that the dealer got only one Prius in early June, but may get a second allocation later this month. They seem to have dropped from 10 Priuses per month earlier this year to about 5. The sales rep had said something early this year about production being cut in order to ramp up HCH and RX400h production, but since those vehicles aren't shipping yet I wonder if something else is going on. Anyway, I appreciate the efforts of the sales rep to keep me informed.

    Their current Prius waiting list is up to 143 people, with the last order being taken just a couple of days ago. At current allocations, that's a wait of over two years for those at the end of the list!
  • eprupiseprupis Member Posts: 30
    I got on several auto buying websites covering north GA, SC and south NC and offered to purchase a Prius with Option #9. I received numerous calls and e-mails saying no car was available but with a $2000 deeposit up front, I could get on their waiting lists. I said no thanks. 3 weeks later I got a call from a dealer 60 miles from my home advising me an option 8 came in in white and every one on their wait list said no and I could have it for list if a bought it within 24 hours. It did come with a $700 regional pack (undercoating, etc.) and they low-balled me on the trade-in which I rejected, but I did get it for list! And a 3 week total wait and no deposit! eprupis
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/prius

    I just learned new things. Enjoy!

    Dennis
  • rpgolferrpgolfer Member Posts: 157
    Hi gang,

    gagrice (#3244) - Because the Prius is tall to accomodate passengers to sit comfortably in the back seat, not too wide and only weighs 2890 lbs, it is quite often at the mercy of crosswinds. It's a little surprising when you first experience the effects of the wind. Whenever I feel the wind crossing, I always look at the surrounding trees/bushes and I swear they aren't moving. Unfortunately, the low coefficient of drag (.026) helps mostly moving forward.
    Thanks,
    Rich
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    image
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    Awesome! It will make a great wall paper. Is that your car? I can't tell.

    Dennis
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    Hi folks:

    I just wanted to let everyone know I had XM radio added to my Prius. It is a clean install and integrates perfectly with the MFD. No more commercials, and now I don't have to burn CDs as much. As John says, sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!
  • gs80gs80 Member Posts: 10
    What system did you have installed and do you receive the signal via an unused FM station? I've been looking at the XM Commander and wondered how it would look on my 04 prius

    Thanks.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    Yup, that's my Prius. If you turn the brightness why up on your monitor, you can see the "1701-A" license plate.

    I got really lucky last night, having the digital camera & tripod with me at the time and being able to find a location without any horizon obstruction. And of course, there's always that anticipation that the clouds will prevent the sun from peaking out at the very last moment before it disappears.

    JOHN
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    I went to priusxm.com and had it installed professionally. When you press mode on your steering wheel you now have SAT1 through SAT3. It works phenomenal. Now.. what to do with all those CDs I'll never listen to anymore.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    image
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Minor correction. the Prius has a (Coefficient of Drag)CD of 0.26 not 0.026 as stated. 0.26 is very low!
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    A reporter is hoping to interview anyone who has recently considered a Prius. He wonders what your shopping experience was like, what you paid if you bought one, what you cross-shopped, what you bought if you went for another vehicle, etc. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Tuesday, June 22, 2004 with your daytime contact info and anything you'd like to share.

    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    PR Director
    Edmunds.com
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    A reporter is hoping to interview anyone who has recently considered a Prius. He wonders what your shopping experience was like, what you paid if you bought one, what you cross-shopped, what you bought if you went for another vehicle, etc. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Tuesday, June 22, 2004 with your daytime contact info and anything you'd like to share.

    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    PR Director
    Edmunds.com
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    My 67 year old father is in love with the Prius and wants to buy an 05 MY car. The problem is he will have to wait at least 6 months and the dealer is asking for a $800 deposit. The dealer says that is the only way he can get the Prius. I know the car is in extremely high demand but is it put worth putting down an $800 deposit?

    Will the maintenance cost of the Prius be greater than a similar gasoline powered car? Also I heard that only Toyota trained technicians are qualified to service the car, is that true
  • wco81wco81 Member Posts: 590
    Anyone read it? Unfortunately, it's a subscription site so I can't link to it and I presume the moderators wouldn't want it pasted here either.
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    Offer them a $500 deposit and make sure it is refundable. If you don't leave a deposit, there is no way you'll assure yourself a spot on their waiting list.

    The previous generation Prius has proven to be quite reliable. Have a look at Consumer Reports for more information. Contrary to what you may have read, battery failures are virtually non existant. I have never read about one other than perhaps a faulty cell or two on a particular vehicle.
  • kornklankornklan Member Posts: 29
    I placed a $500.00 deposit on my Prius on Dec. 18th 2003. The dealer (in Connecticut) guaranteed the deposit was refundable. I'm going to wait for the car. I was #20 on the list. My dealer e-mailed me last week that I have moved up to #6. He has been getting about one to two cars a month. I should get mine around August or September. If your father feels that strongly about the car, the $800.00 deposit will guarantee he gets a car. Have him make sure that the deposit is refundable should he change his mind. He may have to wait a long time and will probably get a 2005.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you put down a deposit, see if the dealer will just take your credit card number but not actually run the card. That way the deposit never shows up on your credit card account, so there's nothing to refund if you decide you don't want the car. This is what my dealer did, with a $500 "deposit". Even if the dealer will run the card, it might be better to use a card vs. cash/check because if the dealer renegs on the refund, you can protest to the credit card company.

    As for maintenance, I'm sure for maintenance on the hybrid components it's best to let Toyota-trained technicians handle it, but for routine maintenance like oil changes and such any competent mechanic should be able to do that. For maintenance costs, they should be low while the car is under warranty. And the warranty on hybrid components is 8 years/100k miles in your state (higher in some states like CA).
  • rdsymmesrdsymmes Member Posts: 5
    Actually, Oldboy, we did end up walking away from the deal, because when we saw the car, we realized it wasn't even a package 7. As for believing what the dealer paid for it, yes, we do, because we saw the paperwork, and we also know from multiple other reliable sources that these cars are fetching premium prices. That said, we couldn't justify our own cost, since it wasn't fully loaded (we had told him we would pay $27,500 for a fully loaded Prius). He was pissed at us, but too bad. (We had not committed to buying the thing, and he had said if we didn't want it, he'd sell it on e-Bay and get more for it than he was going to charge us.)

    Meanwhile, because we had to get another car, we compromised on an almost fully loaded RAV 4, which we got for the Edmunds TMV price, and put a $500 deposit on a Prius. Dealer is adding the moon roof at his cost (we included this cost in the TMV calculation). The car was an advertised loss-leader for the dealer, but it suited us, so it was a win/win.

    Meanwhile, we have a deposit on a hybrid Escape, and will look at them closely when they come out this year. Heard some talk about Toyota putting a hybrid in the RAV in two-three years, which also has us contemplating selling our new RAV to get a hybrid if/when they are produced (we're banking on our current RAV having reasonably high residual value). And of course, the wait for the Prius (the dealership told us 18-24 months, that there's a strong possibility we'll get a 2006 and not a 2005, and we'll get it for MSRP).
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    >Contrary to what you may have read,
    >battery failures are virtually non existant.
    >I have never read about one other than
    >perhaps a faulty cell or two on a particular
    >vehicle.

    They haven't been out long enough to determine if there are going to be battery failures. How many cars have been on the road 5 years? Maybe a few but with aobut 8 years or 10 years? The major failure, if they start occurring, will be in the future. That is why they are currently "virtually non existant" .

    The first generation Prius was available in Europe 1997. Does anyone have valid battery stats on those early models? Even a 1997 is just coming up on 7 years. Most of the Prius sold have been the new model 2004 which have less than a year of actual data.

    Come back in 2010 and I hope the answer is still "virtually non-existant". But we have no idea if that will be the answer or not. Typically Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries fail after time, heat/cold and charging cycles. Supposedly ,the Prius MG1 trickle charges the Prius all the time so that the batteries never get into deep discharge, unless you drive it hard whatever that means. But extreme cold (Minnesota winters) and extreme heat ( Phoenix summers) take their toll on any rechargeable battery Nickel-Metal Hydride or Lead.sulphuric.

    Newer Polymer Lithium Ion have more storage density, better recharge characteristics and might solve the problem for future cars, but it unlikely that there will be a battery upgrade for existing Priuses.

    YBLMV,

    MidCow
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    I will tell my dad to ask the dealer to either lower the deposit to $500 which seems more common than a $800 deposit or run the card without actually charging it. I have to admit I think the car looks really cool from both inside and outside but at the same time do you think that buying a Toyota Corolla makes more financial sense? That was what I suggested to him but his heart is set on the Prius.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If a compact sedan like the Corolla can meet your needs, it would be difficult to justify buying the Prius based only on financial considerations. You need to decide that based on your criteria, your driving habits, etc.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Purely on economics 12-14k vs 26-29k, Absolutely! Just ask the question at 2.19 per gal or whatever number you wish to use, how much unleaded fuel does 14,000-17,000 in savings buy? 6393-7763 gals? At 32/38 mpg vs 45-52 mpg. How far can you go @ 32-38 mpg, 204,576-294,994 miles?

    I am sure you see BE break even as almost ridiculously high?

    For the sake of argument you do 100,000 miles (easy to do multiples) plus 12-15k avg yearly mileage puts it at the avg age of the fleet of 8.3 years) fuel use @ 38 mpg=2632 gal vs fuel use@ 52 mpg? 1923 gals? Or a 709 gal savings @ 2.19= projected $1,553 dollars in fuel savings? Lets see, spend 14-17k MORE to SAVE $1553.00 in fuel savings?

    Kind of reminds me of that old joke: how to make a small fortune (in Prius gas/hybrids) : start with a large fortune!! :(:)
  • mebmanmebman Member Posts: 100
    Toyota is deliberately not producing enough of the 04 Prius. It is just wrong to have waiting lists of more than a year for anything. Prius is a great car no doubt, but when you go to the Toyota dealer and see lots full of BIG trucks and SUV's it really makes you wonder why they don’t use those production resources to make more of a car that we obviously cant get enough of. I'm tired of the Toyota dealers acting as if it is a privilege to purchase their cars. Honda is coming out with a wonderful new hatchback called the Fit. Although it's not a Hybrid the CVT and VTEC powertrain yields gas mileage in the 40's without hybrid technology to repair later on.
    Once gas prices subside the Prius will not be quite as difficult to get, but Toyota has lost one customer for not stepping up to the plate with enough Prius in our time of need.
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    That's pretty impressive that 1997 cars still haven't had battery issues. Ten years from now there will be so many hybrids on the road that the cost of battery modules will be LESS than what it costs to replace a starter battery on a conventional car. The battery issue is a NON issue in my book. I have 140,000 miles before it even is a warranty issue. YIPEEEEE
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    Do your homework. It's the third party supplier of batteries which is the main holdup in production. Toyoyta had NO idea how popular their Prius would be. All different types of people are becoming hybrid converts. I even know someone that had a 2 year old TDI (diesel Golf) that he gave up for a Prius. His rationale that he wanted to make a statement about the environment. Foolish move, but everyone has their own agenda.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    You obviously haven't studied industry shortages.

    Just take a look at the computer industry for great examples of parallels to the automotive industry. They have recently endured the same problem recently, the best example of which is LCDs.

    LCDs are dramatically smaller and less expensive than a vehicle. How come there was a 3-year lag for supply to catch up with demand there? Why aren't you holding them to the same "deliberate" theory? After all, the computer industry is far better at dealing with change than the automotive industry. If they can't do it really quick, how can those for Prius.

    And remember, it isn't just Toyota. Toyota has to buy parts from suppliers, like the battery-pack modules from Panasonic.

    JOHN
  • mebmanmebman Member Posts: 100
    Toyota is deliberately not producing enough of the 04 Prius. It is just wrong to have waiting lists of more than a year for anything. Prius is a great car no doubt, but when you go to the Toyota dealer and see lots full of BIG trucks and SUV's it really makes you wonder why they don’t use those production resources to make more of a car that we obviously cant get enough of. I'm tired of the Toyota dealers acting as if it is a privilege to purchase their cars. I spoke with the Toyota customer service and their best spin is “we have increased production by 31%’. 31% of a little is still a little! Dealers are still saying up to a TWO YEAR wait!
    I have never heard of such a wait for any car, or for that matter any commercially produced product of any kind, except maybe a high-rise office building. Toyota could build a whole new factory in that time!
    Honda is coming out with a wonderful new hatchback called the Fit. Although it's not a Hybrid the CVT and VTEC powertrain yields gas mileage in the 40's without hybrid technology to repair later on. I am now a Honda customer.
    Once gas prices subside the Prius will not be quite as difficult to get, but Toyota has lost one customer for not stepping up to the plate with enough Prius in our time of need.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    By the way...

    Did you ever consider that the delay for the Toyota/Lexus hybrid SUV releases could actually caused by Prius shortages?

    Since the same battery-pack module (except more of them) is used for those SUVs, wouldn't it make sense to devote that supply to Prius instead?

    JOHN
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    >Toyota is deliberately not producing enough of the 04 Prius.

    You are absolutely right. And belivie me if the the Prius were as profitable as the Corolla and Camrys they replace they would make more in a heart-beat.

    > ..Toyota has lost one customer
    However, make that at least two customers and counting probably 1,000s that they have lost
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Anyone contemplating selling your Jetta, Beetle, Golf, TDI for a Prius, please let me know!!! :)
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