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Comments
It's fair to say they'd *tend* to be better, but that's not always the case.
-juice
Yes. In fact, a few months back someone posted a video (on another forum) showing the startup process for the HID. You could see it physically moving to adjust.
JOHN
Out east, they may have had the opportunity to test several days of exposure in a row. I haven't heard anything though.
The classic model hasn't had any trouble. Warmup takes longer than normal. But that's true of most vehicles.
JOHN
I have a friend in Europe that has an 01 Prius which is exposed to -40c for several days at a time every winter. He removes that 12v auxillury-battery and brings it in the house with him.
That's cheating. But with an extreme like that, it's worth the guarantee of an effortless start afterward. And the small size of the battery itself does make the removal fairly easy.
The 2004 auxillury-battery doesn't appear to be as easy to remove, but then again it is bigger. So there may be no need to ever do that, even in extreme cold.
Look at it this way, all the 12v has to do is feed the computer. In a traditional vehicle, it has to power the starter. A computer takes far less electricity. So the hybrid should have less of an effort starting anyway. (Prius spins the engine for startup using the 201.6v battery-pack. So that aspect is completely a non-issue. That's gross overkill for cranking power.)
JOHN
As for extended warranty, the standard warranties and Toyota's reputation for quality are enough for me, but if you like the peace of mind it gives you, go for it.
The Prius had better come with 2 key fobs, since they are needed to start the car!
We live in Colorado, in the NW suburbs of Denver. Before we bought the Prius our only car was actually a truck, a '91 Toyota PU, V6 4WD. While most of our driving is very much short run, stop-and-go driving - back and forth to the grocery or the Park-and-Ride - we also have taken many long road trips, done camping and a bit of off-road, and have driven it all over the western US and up into Canada. The truck is perfect in the occasional deep snow blizzards we get here, hauls a ton of mulch for my garden, and while not good on gas mileage, it was at least acceptable at roughly 20-21 MPG (this has dwindled a bit as it aged).
So, we really love our truck, but it's approaching 150,000 miles, and when we decided we needed a second car we were primarily thinking of a Subaru Outback, which has the AWD, carries a ton of stuff, and is affordable, reliable, and extremely common in this area.
We're not familiar with luxury cars, or power cars, as many of you seem to be. But we are very environmentally aware, since we both have allergies and asthma that kick in hard when the air gets bad. And so when we got serious about a new car last summer we started looking at the Prius.
I'm not entirely sure when or why we decide the Prius was the car we most wanted. We were very much intrigued by the environmental aspects of course - not just the MPG that you all discuss a lot, but the overall low emissions. And having had a Toyota truck, we were convinced that it would be a quality product. Besides all that I think we were swayed by our general love of technology and computers, since we're both sort of geeky. So we read a lot of stuff, and slowly our interest turned to the Prius rather than the Outback.
By the time we started to settle on a Prius, it was late summer and the 2003s were long gone. We worked with a broker affiliated with our credit union (and had a wonderful experience there, but I don't think this is thread for that). We started reading all the incredible press the Prius has gotten in the last half of '03, and began to worry that we wouldn't be able to get our hands on one, now that we'd settled on it.
We did know that we wanted the Driftwood Pearl, and the #7 (AM) pack, since that had all the safety features plus neat things like the Smart Entry. So we had our broker put in a special order, and hoped it would arrive before the end of '04 (we ordered in November, so the timing was definitely tight). We got a call or two about other colors and features that showed up while we were waiting, but decided that even if it meant a lower tax break, we really wanted out first new car to be exactly what we wanted.
Here in Colorado, by the way, there is a tax credit of almost $3000 for buying a hybrid (Colorado has some serious pollution issues and has been aggressive about dealing with them). That's an actual tax credit, and on top of the federal tax reduction. So while the nearly $25k price was pretty high for us, the tax considerations made a big difference. And our broker and the dealer (Elway, for those in the area) came through perfectly, delivering exactly what we wanted in just over six weeks.
I know this will sound insane, but we bought the car entirely on instinct, never having seen this model of Prius, much less ever driven one. And it was love at first sight.
The seats are completely comfortable, the interior size and hauling capacity are more than I ever imagined, the car itself has a faster, more responsive engine than I expected, and takes hills, traffic, and at least light snow very well. It easily holds our normal shopping, even when we go to Costco and load up, and we can carry our friends around with no trouble at all.
Between here and the Park and Ride, our most common drive, there are six stop lights in less than three miles. And every time we pull up to the light and the entire car shudders and goes silent, I smile. All those people around us are belching out fumes but we're in this little bubble of quiet and clean air, and it's a great feeling.
I mention that because our gas mileage is nothing like what some of you report. We're still in our first tank, and averaging under 34 MPG. From reading here, I think that's because: 1) it's really been cold this time of year; 2) the car is way new (we hit 200 miles today); 3) we're not very good at driving for best mileage yet; and 4) we're doing the worst sort of in-city, short run driving. We rarely drive for more than 5 or ten minutes at a time.
Anyway, that's my Prius experience so far. We're very happy with the purchase, and if, as I expect, the car is as sound and reliable as other Toyota vehicles, I hope to remain happy with it for years to come.
http://www.revenue.state.ne.us/fuels/mfruling.htm
Next I suppose they will charge motorcycles $100 and bikes $150!
Saturday, January 31 at 3:00 PM
This time we'll be in the northwest corner of the Twin Cities, at the STARBUCKS in Maple Grove.
If you have a hybrid, are waiting for the delivery of one, or are just curious, stop by.
Like usual, it is just a casual get together to ask questions and swap stories. We will probably take a few photos of the cars too. That particular location is great. There is a ton of parking space, making a "line up" photo very easy. And of course, the inside of the coffee shop (where it's warm) is quite large, offering easy seating for all that show up.
Just take the first exit on 94 North. Turn right on Weaver Lake Road. Then turn right on Elm Creek Boulevard. You'll see the Starbuck's at the end of a small strip-mall. Behind it is a large Barnes & Noble, with a Kohl's and Cub Foods off to the north side. In other words, it's pretty easy to find.
Hope to see you there.
JOHN
There are many type/styles of aftermarket HID headlamp systems.
And then there is the RIP-OFF kind.
There are folks out there in the market selling HID kits that actually use incandescent bulbs. Not HID look-a-like, those are out there too, in abundance.
Absent a modification of the base/socket, I know of no HID bulb being manufactured that will fit in place of an incandescent bulb.
Buyer beware!
Ray is sure it will be gone quick, but if anyone else waiting wants to check out this car, call Ray at 972-814-7861.
Makes me wonder of heat-tape would work too. Hmm? I hadn't ever thought of simply wrapping some around the battery and plugging it in.
JOHN
I can tell you that I will never buy a car from the Plano dealer. I may, if in a pinch, can not find a part for my Prius elsewhere, I may call on their parts dept. A friend of mine told me recently that on two different occasions, he had seen customers with picket signs protesting in front of the Plano dealer on their bad service. IMO any amount, however popular a vehicle is, over MSRP is outrageous. I know there are people out there who are desperate enough to buy over MSRP but not this family. Now, I believe that dealers should get a fair profit for their business but $4k over MSRP? In this day an age where car manufacturers are handing out low interest rates and incenstives left and right, paying over MSRP is rediculous. Capitalism at it's finest. Sorry for the rant...getting of my soapbox now...Tony.
Dean
Kansas City, MO
Formerly from Milwaukee, Wi.
My condolences to the fine people living in Neb.
Thanks,
Mike
...I assume if the engine runs only 50% of the time that oil breakdown is delayed and thus if one uses Mobile 1 synthetic oil one could extent the life of the oil as well as its replacement (10,000mile intervals)?????
Are there any other fluids that must be replaced on the electric side??? or the mechanical gear box side that we need to be awear of????
Thanks,
Mike
I put my "order" in at the Green Bay dealer back on December 22, and at that time they estimated May/June for delivery. So it looks like the wait has increased a bit more here. I'm using the wait time to save up so I won't need to take out any financing when the time finally comes to pick it up.
Good luck on your search.
Mike
There is no XL requirement for the 2004. There are just plain old STANDARD tires.
The confusion is due to the classic having smaller tires, hence less to hold up the weight. But size the tires on the 2004 are bigger, so that is totally completely a non-issue.
Too bad Michelin doesn't know that.
JOHN
Every 5,000 miles for the 2004.
> I assume if the engine runs only 50% of the time that
> oil breakdown is delayed and thus if one uses Mobile 1
> synthetic oil one could extent the life of the oil as
> well as its replacement (10,000mile intervals)?????
The oil does last much longer. That's because the engine isn't used as much, it never revs as higher as a traditional engine, and it runs cooler than a traditional engine. BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO CHANGE EVERY 5,000 MILES.
The benefit of synthetic is better protection and a minor increase in efficiency.
JOHN
Do you know if the engine drain plug is readily accessible from under the car?...most Toyota's are just behind the front bumper so that oil changes are very easy and a DO-IT-YOURSELF excerise. Also is the oil filter easy to get at?? I like to DO-IT-MYSELF every now and then.
Beside the Air and Oil Filters, are there any other filters which require replacement on the electric side of the engine???
Mike
Hoping to test drive a Prius soon, going to check if one of the local dealerships (by chance) has a demo available for day rental.
> and saves gas then why would they have a rigid 5,000 oil
> change interval?
Remember, the "G" in MPG is gallons and the "M" is miles.
Saving a few quarts every few thousand miles is a bit extreme. And since many are switching to synthetic for the efficiency benefit, less oil is being used in 2 respects anyway.
JOHN
> from under the car?
That's an understatement!
Since the engine is offset and the hood is short, it makes Prius one of the easiest cars to change the oil... ever! The oil pan is right there. It's amazingly easy to reach.
> Also is the oil filter easy to get at?
Yup, it's right there in front of the oil pan, vertical mounted for minimal dripping.
> are there any other filters which require replacement
> on the electric side of the engine???
The electric motor is a Brushless-AC. That means absolutely no maintenance ever. (Sweet!)
The Inverter coolant needs changing every 30,000 miles. The process is supposedly just a few steps more than what you'd do for antifreeze flushing, but I've never tried it.
There's a lubricant in the Planetary-CVT that needs changing at 100,000 miles, then every 50,000 miles following that. Based on the design, it looks as though there is no filter (remember, it is always engaged) or gasket to deal with, just a drain. So the process would be easier than with an automatic transmission. That's just speculation though.
Nothing else is needed.
JOHN
I guess every day I wait, the waiting list is probably getting even longer ;>)
Also after the car is out of warranty one could use Mobil 1 and extend to 10,000 miles between oil changes...It's too bad Toyota does'nt allow an official extension of the oil change interval if motor runs approximately 50% of time and cooler...this should mean the oil breakdown is reduced and thus time between change-out should double...
this would definitely be a Great GREEN selling point and may even be an oversight because we tend to do things just like we always have...of course the Prius is the exception to this rule and someone should ask the engineers this question...of course the maintenance folks would not like to hear this.
Mike
5,000 miles is reasonable, especially when many still use 3,000 miles intervals for traditional vehicles.
JOHN
Mike
-juice
-juice
JOHN
Are you saying that any P185/16 R15 tire will work on the Prius? If so, I will put on a setof Michelin's when the integritys wear out.
Yup!
1,102 pounds was the load requirement for the classic. XL tires provided that at 35 PSI. At 35 PSI with STANDARD tires, you'd only get 1,019 pound, but they could easily handle a greater load by simply increasing the tire pressure.
STANDARD tires for the 2004 model, provide 1,156 pounds at 35 PSI. The switch to a larger tire size eliminated the need for XL. Without even using a higher PSI, you already have more than enough of support. So, any STANDARD tire will do on a 2004.
JOHN
Have the Toyota rep publish this information for the Tire Rack folks...these tire people need to be aware of these changes formely to avoid confusion.
Thanks,
Mike
I hope to see you there!
-Bill
> maximum load recommendations.
Anyone that has dealt with aftermarket parts clearly understands that automakers choose the path of least liability. And quite frankly, trusting a consumer to keep their promise that they will maintain proper PSI is a huge gamble. Having that buffer makes the lawyers very happy.
For those of us that do diligently maintain, it's no big deal. Risk is adverted by routine verifying.
And in the case of tires, the evidence is overwhelming. Tread wear is even across the entire width of the tire, proving the harder ride is not compromising load carrying abilities.
Also note that the tire itself is rated for the higher PSI, so that criteria is never exceeded.
JOHN
Happy hunting!
Jennifer
Denver-area dealership and would like to talk about your experience on
camera Saturday, January 31, 2004, please contact jfallon@edmunds.com
with your daytime contact information and the name of the dealership.
Responses must be in by Friday, January 30, 2004 for consideration.
Dean
Smithville, MO