Toyota Prius

mfullmer · February 2004

Moved here because partner accepted a faculty position at Emory University.

Regarding the Prius here in Atlanta - I was thinking about why there is such a large inventory here, I saw my very first 2004 Prius, here in Atlanta, just this weekend. Even the "Classic" was not very popular down here.

Go figure.

m4eth · February 2004

Without the heated discussions I would have never found out about the Prius's Atkinson cycle!!! Wow Toyota is driving ahead of the competition.

Mike

john1701a · February 2004

You may not have known (or still don't know) that Toyota chose to use an AC motor either, which is more expensive.

That choice requires an invertor, to convert the power from DC. That adds to the overall cost too.

But by having the AC type, brushes aren't needed inside the motor. That eliminates a part that would eventually wear out. So it is very, very safe to expect the motor to last the lifetime of the vehicle and never need any maintenance at all.

A secondary benefit of the AC type, is that you can take advantage of the inverter. Rather than just converting from DC to AC, you can also bump up the voltage at the same time. And increased voltage equates directly to improved efficiency.

JOHN

wwest · February 2004

Doesn't the electric drive motor use a variable frequency A/C (Alternating Current)? And are you sure the A/C (Air Conditioning) motor uses the 115 volt 60 AC invertor?

Motors that operate at higher frequencies can generally be a LOT smaller than motors that use 60hz.

And given the simplicity of doing so I still don't understand why the air conditioning system isn't a heat pump also.

Personally I would have used a permanent magnet rotor and a variable frequency rotating field invertor drive for the A/C motor so I could match the rotational rate to the actual A/C need and conserve even more power.

xcel · February 2004

Hi Wwest:

___The following link gives a few reasons as to why a design team might chose one form of electric powered HW vs. another in a Hybrid design.

http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~vehicle/tech_report/UW_Tech_Paper_2001.p- df

___Djasonw, why hasnt your father traded in his Corolla for a Prius?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

john1701a · February 2004

Again with the abbreviations...

HW ?

stevedoria · February 2004

Thanks for that link!

"Using other factories" isn't as easy as it sounds. These cars are unlike any other cars and require alot of parts that no other car has. For instance, car makers can go to alot of places to have people build alternators for them, but how many build planetary gear sets? Also, setting up a brand new production line take enormous amount of time and coordination....at least that's what I suspect.

While that will be great if they move manufacturing here, it doesn't help us now. It's pretty frustrating having to tell customers "Sure, we can get a 2004 Prius for you, but you will have to wait until 2005s are about to hit."..."How about a nice new Corolla?"

:^)

wwest · February 2004

jnfr · February 2004

Today when I parked at the bus stop waiting for my husband to arrive, I noticed after a few minutes that the car across from me looked oddly familiar. It was a Prius! But it was the classic variety (maybe a year or two old - it still looked brand new). Well I had to get out and take a look at it; it was a cute little powder blue number.

The most obvious difference was that the back of the car - where our '04 has the hatchback - was full of engine or something. Not much extra storage there. Made me very happy we ended up with an '04, even though we had started looking when the '03s were still around.

We love our Prius

backy · February 2004

I hope you maintained a discreet distance as you observed the Prius in its native habitat.

The rear of the Classic Prius isn't "full of engine"; it just has a traditional trunk configuration. Actually quite a roomy trunk for a car its size, but I too like the versatility of the hatchback and the additional seating room of the '04 model.

jnfr · February 2004

Ah thanks! I must be confusing it with very early electric models where the battery took up so much space.

And yes, I love my hatchback!

andrewe2 · February 2004

Had my Prius for a week everything is going great except there is a squeak that sounds like it is coming from inside the dash on the drivers side. I can make it happen just by pushing down on the drivers side running board which rocks the car a little and produces this squeak that almost sounds like plastic rubbing together. Anyone have any experience with something like this? My fear is I'm going to take it in and the service people will scratch their heads.

rpgolfer · February 2004

Hi everybody,
Now that the testosterone olympics are over, let me ask two questions:

1) Does Toyota dealers sell in their parts dept any sort of baseball cap with "Prius" in big letters? I need a new golf hat.

2) To California Prius owners - Does Ca require smog checks or dyno tests on the Prius?
Thanks
Rich

rpgolfer · February 2004

Just like geogirl (#142) asks, "Please don't hate me", I too was "lucky" to get what I got as fast as I got it. I walked into a Toyota dealership and immediately was attracted to a newly arrived Prius (Silver #9) that was about to be picked up. A salesman asked me if I was interested in Priuses. Knowing how long it takes to get one I honestly was going to settle on a Camry XLE. He told me a customer of his backed out on a purchase which was due in 5 days and said if I was SERIOUSLY interested he'd ask if I could purchase it. I said "Yes!!". He called me later to inform me I could indeed buy the car (Driftwood #9) a choice that suited me quite well. He also said the car was already there! A truck arrived with the car on it and the salesman didn't want to lose a sale and recognized a buyer when he saw one. I took possession that same day. So in a matter of about 6 hrs, I got one.
Now, if anyone is serious at considering any Prius the dealer can get, let the dealer know. Give them your home phone, pager, cell phone...and have your financial arrangements ready to go. You may not get exactly what you want, but you will get your Prius long before the 4-6 month wait. Consider it.
I was very lucky..I mean right place, right time and I recognized the opportunity and seized it. I paid MSRP plus mats, decal, cargo net and glass breakage sensor, add the TTL and that totalled $28,262 out the door. I'm very happy with the car. First time I filled up at 360 mi (w/1 bar showing) I averaged 50.7 mpg!
Good luck
Rich

dc8527 · February 2004

While driving my 04 Prius on the road today I noticed the low temp indicator (yellow snow flake) was on while the outside temp was 39F as displayed. I stopped the car, turned off the power then On again, trying to reset the computer. The problem was "fixed". It is likely a software bug. Anyone else seen this before?

john1701a · February 2004

Sorry, I already answered your other post of the identical question on the other thread.

It short, that is exactly what is suppose to happen. It's a "could be slippery" indicator.

JOHN

mfullmer · February 2004

Yes, John is correct.

GM vehciles also have this sort of indicator ( ICE in the outside temperature display). It is impossible for the outside temperature display in vehicles to not pick up some warmth from the engine bay (most are place near the grill to pick up the air moving into to it.).

Therefore, while it may read 39 degrees, if very well could be 35, 32 or 29 degrees depending on how far you have driven. This is just an indicator that there may be ice.

By the way, Tuesday we had snow flurries in Atlanta at 37 degrees.

bibbysize · February 2004

The Prius collateral and website don't show what the decal looks like. Anyone have a picture to show and tell?

backy · February 2004

(No, not the Clint Eastwood movie.) I could see how that could happen based on my experience on The List. Each order can specify a specific package, specific colors. If a package #2 came in and there was no one on the list for a package #2, or if all the package #2 orders had specified other colors and those buyers turned the car down, then it can mean Your Lucky Day. Package #2 is a pretty low-end package with only the SABs/side curtains--not even a rear wiper. May not be very desirable (I know I wouldn't get a fastback like the Prius w/o a rear wiper).

wlblackwellpe · February 2004

John;

You indicated that the EV Button could be installed in 2004 USA Prius, will Toyota support this change? How will this change the car?

I belief you stated someone had put a second battery pack in a car, how was this done and again does Toyota support this change?

Your contacts at Toyota help with the passing out of information.

sharke · February 2004

Noting that some Prius owners have expressed discontent with the Goodyear Integrity tire, I have done a little research on possible substitutes. I guess, for comfort and ride, I should be more interested in a touring tire than a high performance tire and, for traction, grip etc. a 195/60 15 rather than the OEM 185/65 15. Am I correct? If I am, then which of the following tires would you be likely to choose.
Bridgestone Turanza; Yokohama Avid Touring; or the Goodyear Regatta.
I also note that the Yokohama Avid Touring tire has a max. PSI of 35# rather than the usual 44# does this mean that I would get worse mileage with the Yokohama vis-a-vis the others?
I haven't received my Prius yet. Just checking these many options.Or,should I forget the touring tire and go with the Bridgestone Potenza despite the fact that I am a pretty average elderly driver. A little input from any who have opted to swap out the OEMs for another tire would be most welcome.

john1701a · February 2004

> EV Button... will Toyota support this change?

I suspect they will offer it as an aftermarket upgrade later on, just like they did with cruise-control for the 2001 model.

> How will this change the car?

You'll be able to accelerate using only electricity with the greatest of ease. No need to be careful with the pedal in this mode.

Note though that there is NOT a MPG improvement under normal driving conditions. The benefit comes when you are trapped in very heavy stop & slow traffic or when you need to drive a very short distance. In those cases, you really will save gas since the engine running will be offset to a more efficient time.

> second battery pack in a car, how was this done and again
> does Toyota support this change?

No comment on how it was done (liability concern) and Toyota definitely will not support this under warranty coverage. Later on though, it could become an aftermarket possibility.

JOHN

talleyid · February 2004

The only Prius merchandise that I'm aware of is available through the Toyota Outfitters catalog. You can see the catalog at the parts counter of most dealerships. When I reviewed it there were only 3 items. The Hybrid Synergy Drive keychain; a T-shirt (not so cool IMHO); and a pretty nice drinking glass made from a recycled wine bottle with a sand blasted design.

FYI - These cannot be ordered online yet. For some reason you MUST order through the Toyota catalog from the dealership.

john1701a · February 2004

The normal 10kW limit is extended all the way up to 27.4kW, which translates to a horsepower increase of about 23.

The confusion comes from your electricity source assumption. The engine isn't available to feed the motor during EV drive, so 100% of the electricity has to come from the battery-pack. That means the 67hp isn't available in the first place. It is actually only 13 (without EV) using just the single source. But that is enough to propel the car at a rate of up 42 MPH for over 2 miles. Normally you wait for STEALTH to do it slowly or just trigger the engine to start up. With EV, you can drop the pedal with high confidence that the engine will remain off.

JOHN

backy · February 2004

FWIW, I put Regatta II's on my minivan about 18 months ago, replacing the OEM Michelins. I have been very happy with their performance. Quiet, good grip in wet and snow, good handling (this is a minivan though), no signs of wear after 15,000 miles (still have some of the green stuff in the treads from the factory).

rpgolfer · February 2004

Midnightcowboy - I realize how lucky I was to be in the right place/right time getting the Prius. I believe the salesman didn't want to lose a sale - be it the original purchaser or me. So I took advantage of a rare opportunity.

Tire question - As expected, my Prius came with the Goodyear Integrity 185/65 R15 86S. The tire states max pressure 44 PSI. What are the best pressures for the front/back? I want to optimize mgp and willing to sacrifice a little ride comfort. Any effect on VSC?
Thank you
Rich

john1701a · February 2004

Now it is revealed why you are so adversarial. Confusion about how Prius actually works will do that.

Here's what everyone needs to understand:

The engine delivers electricity to the motor 100 PERCENT of the time it is providing thrust to the tires. In other words, ALWAYS. And that is what gives the electric propulsion its umph. So when you accelerate moderaterately, the battery-pack isn't used at all. When you accelerate aggressively, the battery-pack joins in. That is the "hybrid" behavior.

The "electricy-only" behavior is when only the battery-pack is used. "Stealth" has a delivery limitation of 10kW. "EV" bumps that value all the way up to 27kW. So it is like the engine is joining in too. But in reality, it is actually off still.

The point of "EV" is to give you aggressive acceleration abilities without triggering the engine to restart. It also allows you to delay warmup to a more efficient time.

The point most often overlooked is the fact that the maximum electric-only speed is 42 MPH. So the HP values you see posted are combined, with the engine.

JOHN

john1701a · February 2004

> EV is a lock and hold stealth mode period!

It very is a noticeable power increase to stealth mode. Dead silent and vibrationless acceleration & cruising is a factor those seeking luxury aspects will truly appreciate.

It also provides the ability to manually control warmup, a genuine opportunity to increase MPG in stop & slow traffic and on short-trips.

JOHN

john1701a · February 2004

> What are the best pressures for the front/back?

42 PSI front
40 PSI back

That is unquestionably the favorite among Prius owners.

I personally run 44/42. All this winter (here in Minnesota) the tires have been that way. If anything, it improves handling. VSC was only needed once. Not really any sliding for me. Though, I do take advantage of "B" for controlled slowing on curves, quickly shifting into it when I discover at the last minute I'm going a little to fast (which is pretty darn easy with the convenient positioning of the shifter, all you have to do is feel for it without the need to even look down).

JOHN

m4prius · February 2004

Can one install a hood wind deflector on the Prius? I was interested from a paint protection point of view...also what about side window deflectors to allow windows to be open in the rain as well as vent the car during the summer months...the aft window on the hatch looks like it could collect allot of RAYS.

Has anyone tried???

Mike

alnvilma · February 2004

I have looked everywhere for a hood deflector with no luck. I don't believe they exist yet. I already have a scattergun pattern on my hood and would gladly sacrifice whatever economy to protect it from her on. I'm sure this opinion pulls a gut string for those who try for every tenth of mpg but I'm growing very weary of enduring the testosterone squables of those individuals and appreciate everybody else's feedback. Let me know if you find a vendor!
Thanks

xcel · February 2004

Hi Alnvilma:

___Have you ever heard of 3Ms Clear Bra? It is usually not an inexpensive prospect if you have a shop do it for you but it will protect your automobile and will not decrease its aerodynamic efficiency in the least DIY and the cost drops significantly. There is a company that makes the pre-cut 3M Clear Bra kits for your 04 Prius called Invinca-shield. This link might help

http://www.invinca-shield.com/asp/Genkit.asp?kit=4482

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

rpgolfer · February 2004

John1701a - Thank you
Rich

rpgolfer · February 2004

Good morning,
When I reach 3K miles, I am considering changing oil to the synthetic type. How many miles will the syn oil last between changes? Also, how much longevity should it add to the life of the engine?
When I start out on flat ground, with normal foot pressure on the accelerator the gas engine seems to come on rather soon versus the elec motor solely. Am I pressing down just a little too much? I don't drive conservatively with mpg in mind.
Thanks
Rich

john1701a · February 2004

Extending change duration when using synthetic oil is simply not a good idea in any vehicle. The risk of voiding the warranty is just plain not worth the couple of dollars you'll save.

As for stealth driving, it is quite difficult during the cold season. Once temperatures warm up *AND* you have a hot engine *AND* you've had practice working the pedal, you'll be able to do amazing things using only electricity. I can climb the parking-ramp levels from a dead stop without the engine ever starting. It's great!

JOHN

little_pogi · February 2004

The Japanese Prius accessory web page has it available in Japan. Pretty neat looking too. It's just a matter of time before it will be made available here in the U.S.

bobbim · February 2004

Hi-
I've been watching the Hybrids with interest for years with an eye to buy one when I thought they were what would fit my lifestyle. The 2004 Prius fits the bill and I finally went to a local dealer.

I was put on a waiting list (with deposit) and told that I would have the car in 3 to 5 months. Then I heard from another dealer who said that Toyota sent out a letter to all the dealers in the Mid-Atlantic region saying that they would not be receiving anymore Prius until September when the 2005 come out.

Has anyone else heard this and is this true?

wwest · February 2004

Porsche recommeds ONLY Mobil 1 for the new water cooled models and 15k between changes. I doubt if engine life will enter into the equation if you follow the recommeded maintenance procedures, most engines are going over 200k these days without any repairs.

Doesn't Toyota recommed 7500 mile oil changes for the Prius like they do for all the others?

m4prius · February 2004

Little_pogi...can you state the Japan web site that shows these window deflectors??? Would be nice to see the picture.

Thanks,

Mike

little_pogi · February 2004

Try this,

www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/prius/index.html

Go to the 2nd to the last folder and click on the "confortable item/basic item/other item".

You may have to manually enter this URL. I just don't know why clicking on the link doesn't get you there.

rpgolfer · February 2004

Are car covers available for the '04 Pruis?
Thank you,
Rich

raguero · February 2004

FYI - I just got back from a trip from home at sea level up to 7000 ft. elevation (Big Bear Lake, CA). We made this trip twice this week. Going up the mountain the ICE struggled and the battery level got down to 2 bars. Coming down was no problem. Temps. ranged from 70 in LA to 25 up on the mountain. I had no problems at the lower temps. My MPG still averaged 45 mpg over the trip. I'm still very happy with my Prius. I'll hit 3000 on the odo. this week.

m4prius · February 2004

John1701a you stated: "The engine delivers electricity to the motor 100 PERCENT of the time it is providing thrust to the tires. In other words, ALWAYS."

I assume this means ICE is active when supplying torque to the tires...except when coasting or startup using mild acceleration below 42 mph then electric ONLY ...NO ICE active ???

Has anyone attempted to run sleath mode for extended periods to see what MPG results are??? Seems like MPG may be better then when you moderately accelerate which would then use both ICE and the electric motor (more stuff in use...less MPG)??

Any comments???

Mike

kerensky · February 2004

I've been hearing a lot of rumors (I hope) that Toyota is no longer, or soon will no longer, be accepting orders for the 2004 Prius, and instead people will have to wait until September when the 2005's start coming out. Can anyone actually confirm this?

I ask mainly because I really want to buy a Prius, but don't quite have the finances worked out yet. I expect it will be another 2-3 months before I'll be sure I have everything worked out, and be ready to place my order. If I have to wait until September, I will, but it will mean putting a little more money into my current car until then, which obviously I'd like to avoid. Also, I live in Virginia if it matters. I appreciate any help anyone can give me.

john1701a · February 2004

> 7500 mile oil changes

For the Classic model, which only had a redline of 4000 RPM, that was the recommended interval. That combined with the fact that the engine isn't used heavily in the first place made the 7500 miles pretty realistic. With mine, it was quite clear that the synthetic was in much much much better shape than my Taurus ever was at just 3000 miles.

For the 2004 model, the RPM is up'd by 500. That really shouldn't make a whole lot of difference, since the larger motor helps to offset. Even so, the recommendation is for 5000 miles. I haven't driven the full duration yet, so I can't report on the status.

JOHN

rpgolfer · February 2004

What the is factory recommended and Prius owner recommended oil change frequencies for dino oil/syn oil? On my previous Detroit vehicles, I usually aimed for 3K miles between changes, even though factory recommendations are higher. Should I still target 3k or 5k intervals?
Also, I don't know if there is any carry-over from Corvette accelerator muscle-memory to a Prius accelerator muscles, but it seems no matter how gently I try to accelerate, the ICE comes on either to re-charge or power the wheels. I don't live on flat ground and I don't drive aggressively. Could it simply be on-the-job-training in progress?
Thank you
Rich

john1701a · February 2004

> What the is factory recommended

Every 5000 miles.

> it seems no matter how gently I try to accelerate,
> the ICE comes on either to re-charge or power the wheels

Using only electricity for acceleration is not an efficient method, so the system typically won't let you.

The most efficient use of the electricity is for maintaining a cruise at 30, 35, or 40 MPH. So that is when the engine will most commonly shut off while driving.

JOHN

Sylvia · February 2004

A California reporter is looking to interview any California resident who has owned a Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda Insight or Toyota Prius.
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 with your daytime contact info if you care to share your story.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

m4prius · February 2004

Has anyone attempted to run sleath mode for extended periods to see what MPG results are??? Seems like MPG may be better then when you moderately accelerate which would then use both ICE and the electric motor (more stuff in use...less MPG)??

Any comments???

lok888 · February 2004

As far as I know Toyota only build 50,000 units in Japan and ship worldwide during the first production year. I spoke to my Toyota sales rep last week. The wait time is 7 to 12 months in New England region. By that time, we are probably taking about 2005 model. Some decided to get a Civic hybrid. Some local Honda dealers have few in stock plus the low APR offer.

Toyota Prius

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