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Comments
Dennis
Dennis
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096191/
"Hybrid buyers are waiting in the wings
Environmentally conscious line up to buy most fuel-efficient cars"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/04/21/MN- GC468FFU1.DTL
Midsize Sedans Lose in SUV Side Impacts
Pickup trucks and SUVs cause grievous damage to most midsize sedans even if they have side airbags, according to a new test by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS). The insurance industry-funded group crash tested 15 midsize sedans with a barrier meant to simulate a side-impact wreck with a full-size truck at 31 mph. The results weren't pretty for 12 of the 15 vehicles tested. The Toyota Camry and Honda Accord with side-impact airbags were the only vehicles to earn a rating of "Good," while the Chevy Malibu with side airbags was ranked "Acceptable." Others were ranked "Poor": the Accord, Camry and Malibu without side airbags; the Chrysler Sebring, Dodge Stratus, Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Mazda 6, Mitsubishi Galant, Nissan Altima, Saturn L-Series and Suzuki Verona. The Altima, Galant, Mazda 6, Sebring and Stratus are available with side airbags but were not tested as such because the companies were not willing to reimburse the IIHS for the optional features. The Saturn L-Series and Hyundai were tested with standard side airbags; the Verona doesn't offer them.
Since the Prius is midsize and since it isn't listed, does that mean it receive a poor or worse rating ?
$3,000.00 divided by $2.15 gallon = 1,400 /gals gas!
I am guessing the gas tank holds something like 14 gallons. That is 100 tanks to get the "market adjustment" back.
LOTS OF LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have observed 44mpg in my mixed driving (75%city/25%hwy) and on a recent trip with a tank that was 100% hwy (80mph) obsevered 49.7mpg...so I'm quite impressed with the mileage I receive, considering diesel is approximately $0.15 cheaper than 87 octane. Also having had experience with diesels in the past (had two @ over 300k miles) I know that you can run these things practically forever and they have less emissions than gasoline cars in 3 out of 5 greenhouse categories and tied in 1. I just wanted to let you guys know about this alternative (comes in Jetta, Golf, Beetle, and Passat) as well, some people just can't wait 9-15 months for a car. (for info on emissions, etc, you can visit www.fueleconomy.gov)
Whichever car you decide to go with, whether it be Gasoline, Hybrid, or Diesel.....I hope you have the best of luck with it.
What VW does offers is sporty ride, excellent brakes and handling, excellent safety features and a variety of features other cars in its class don't have , for example, truly automatic head lights, DRL, and heated side mirrors. Super economy cars like the Prius don't offer these same features in the US.
If only VW and Audi were more reliable!
As far as the maintainence goes...Oil changes are $45 (at my particular dealer) and the schedule on the diesel is 5K miles, 10K miles, and every 10K after that...one of the primary reasons for the higher price is that the diesel requires synthetic oil. Let's say..for arguments sake, that the average oil change for TDI is $60 and the average for gas engine is $20...well, it is recommended that you get 3 oil changes (every 3k miles) in the gas for every 1 (every 10k miles) you need in the diesel, so I think that it evens itself out. As far as the Timing Belt...it is scheduled to be changed at 90K miles (2004 model start checking condition @ 60K miles, dunno data on the 2003 and older models)...where as the gas engine is only checked at that mileage.
Yes, the TDI is a little different driving style than a gas engine...but with it's beefy torque, my TDI (100hp, 177 lb-ft, 5 speed) takes off as quickly as my 1998 Corolla 1.8 (120hp, 122 lb-ft, auto)...not saying much, but it does allow me to get out into traffic.
I think that you're right about some of the things that VW offers the TDI's that aren't offered on other "super economy" cars, and I think that I'll be happier in the long run with the comfort level of the Jetta (frequenty make trips from outside of Chicago to Atlanta and central Iowa to visit family).
I, too, would like to see the day when VW/Audi rated up there with Toyota & Honda in reliability. Had 102K on my Corolla when I traded it and never had any major problems.....I've also had 3 Nissans that pushed 200k and beyond (84 Sentra sold it at 180K, 88 Maxima was totalled at 274K..yes that is 274K, and 91 Sentra sold it at 198K)...so they are another manufacturer that I am a big advocate of (I also take pretty good care of my vehicles).
I hope that nobody thinks I'm in here Toyota bashing, because the "Yota" was an excellent car for/to me....and I would recommend them to anyone..in a heartbeat. I just posted about the TDIs for those who need a car post-haste and maybe weren't aware of them.
Oh Yeah the came back and offered it at Invoice, but I didn't buy. I also got answers from the VW service manager that didn't match VWs recommended maintenance schedule. I also have never owned a diesel and I am used to higher performance and it would have been a sacrifice. I am still waiting and putting 30k miles per year on my car.
Thanks again for your informative review of the TDI Jetta. I really like the utility of a hatchback: best choices now Prius (NO MANUAL SHIFT) , Mazda 3 hatch, Honda Civic Si, VW Golf TDI, RSX- Type S. I took a test drive in a Focus SVT upgrade radio xexons, leather; the salesman gave me the keys. Unless you got on it it was slow, $5,000 off MSRP at the time. Good radio is important to me: VW excellent, SVT excellent, Prius: good, Mazda: poor, Honda: very good.
Lots of trade offs in mileage, reliability, features and cost.
As foggy as houston is every morning heated mirrors are important. I also like automatic lights, adjustable seats and MANUAL TRANSMISSION. The Prius doesn't offer some basic fetures and then offer things like Smart Start, Smart entry. Doesn't make sense unless Toyota got the marketing and engineering design departments mixed up.
VW has one of the best rides and best feature sets of any car out there. Maybe it is the German engineering.
YMMV,
MidCow
The Cold Weather Package is nice (I thought they offered it on the Golf too) with heated front seats, heated spray nozzles and heated mirrors. Living in extreme northern IN (80 miles east of Chicago and 10 miles from the MI border) it will be helpful come next winter (heck I've even used the heated seats in the past three weeks.)
I haven't had any chance to see how the traction control system (ESP) works...although I do like the fact that you can disable it with the push of a button (like OD on an auto transmission).
I looked at the Golf..but decided on the Jetta because I have a 3 year old and 2 year old and leather interior is important for me (easier to clean and resists stains better). One of the drawbacks to this particular car is the amount of room in the rear seat..it's fine for my kids with their carseats...and teenagers, but I wouldn't want to try and put 6' adults back there...I don't know if the Golf has more room or not.
The Monsoon sound system is very nice....It's much nice than the MACH audio system in the 1998 Taurus SHO that I had (talk abouot a car that was an electrical nightmare.....had it in the shop 13 times in the first 12 months I owned it for electrical problems..traded it in 2002 for a Galant ESV6..which I still own..with only 13K miles on it).
I haven't driven the 3...but I always liked the looks and size of the Protege. Think it had the most passenger space of cars in it's class.
I reached 3k miles on my '04 Pkg 9. I used 10/30W (what the local dealer uses for our mild climate in the SF Bay Area) and I remember what John1701a recommends is to refill only to a level 1/4" below the full mark on the dispstick . I came up with a good idea when refilling your oil. I scratched a line on the dipstick 1/4" below full and now I have a consistent level to fill to.
What freeway speeds do you all prefer to drive to get reasonable and optimum mpg? Sometimes I come up with 43 mpg and then again the next tankfull will get only 38 mpg? Is this normal?
Thanks,
Rich
Toyota Prius: Prices Paid and Buying Experience
And now, back to our regularly scheduled topic...
P.S. Galoot - have you gotten yours yet?? Would like to hear from you.
Speaking of Earth Day; we were in Knoxville, TN this weekend and attended an Earth Day celebration. There was a Driftwood parked there that belong to the state of TN. It really looked nice. Still not seeing very many on the road.
Have fun with yours!!
Galoot
Here's what happened. They had a bunch of other Prius customers there in the showroom with all the other salesman. Our salesman fills out the sales information and requests my wife's Driver's License to Photocopy. He starts to write up the sale and shows the price of the car to have a $3000 premium. We dispute it and he insists that he informed us of this at the test drive. He lied. 2 hours later after 2 sales managers had tried to push the premium on us they tell us that the color and package we wanted was already sold and we should hurry up and decide on a different color and pay the $3000 or we wouldn't get a car. We asked for her License to be returned and walked away disappointed.
The dealer created an artificial frenzied auction type environment to extort the $3000 dollars from each and every customer. Customers that had become strongly attached to the vehicle after waiting months for it. They claimed they had no choice but to ask for it based on supply and demand. Yet during the negotiations they offered us a white car for $1000 less. The night of the test drive they offered us a gold prius for $1000 off. Clearly the $3000 premium was something the dealer charged as they saw fit.
This is a terrible way to treat customers. Had they told me about the $3000 upfront, they knew I would have walked away to look for another dealer and would not get attached to buying the vehicle from them.
On my recent Lexus purchase we agreed on a "MSRP - $x" price. My salesperson gave me her card with that written on the back of the card and signed.
Thanks!
I've read your stories of davidnj1 (#2870) and mara's experiences. May I suggest this: When you exit the vehicle for the night/day whatever push the lock buttons on the outside of the car (front doors/hatch). If the "key" is in the car or the car is running doesn't the car give you a "beep" if something is not right? I too, worry about leaving it running or it starting up by itself for fear of $$$ and also carbon monoxide build-up. Any other near-miss stories out there than can be shared?
Thanks,
Rich
The service manager told me that the reserve was 3 gallons! Adding his 3.0 to my 7.7 gives 10.7 gals as the estimated capacity. Due to bladder contraction/stretching and inexact fill-ups, this could be correct.
Does anyone know what the "reserve" really is? I have searched my owner's manual without finding it.
The service manager also predicted dire consequences if I ran out of gas. He said that it would "be very expensive." He suggested that the bladder would get crumpled and would take many tanks of gas to stretch back to full capacity (how is this expensive?) and that the fuel injection system would have to be reprimed. Isn't the pump in the back? Wouldn't it be self-priming?
Does anyone know what the real consequences of running out of gas are? Has this happened to anyone despite the huge reserve?
I don't like the idea that I only roughly empty my tank by 1/2 before filling up again -- especially on long trips.
Real information about the gas gauge and tank will help me considerably and may be useful for others too.
Thank you.
While not the best solution, one posed by a Prius Expert, John1701A is to assume you will always have a usable 9 gallon capacity. Then take your average miles per gallon and multiply it by 9. Since most people are getting in the range of 45 mpg , then this equals a range of 405 miles. Just remember to reset your trip odometer.
Rumors are that Toyota is addressing the problem and will fix the gas gauge issue with the 2005 or 2006 model.
YMMV
MidCow
Toyota should fix the Prius gauge. People should know how much gas they have left. That is what trip computers and fuel flow meters are designed for.
Er, correct me if I'm wrong...but if you have 1.5 gallons left when the needle hits "E," then don't you have a reserve of 1.5 gallons??
When I see the needle at a certain point, I know almost exactly how much fuel is remaining. The issue is that with the Prius, there is uncertainty. Amazing. A really high tech car that comes with a surprise at the fuel pump (and I don't mean the MPG) - it's like a lottery to try and predict how much fuel the car will hold regardless of what the guage says when you pull into the gas station...
I believe that in a traditional sense and in this context, the word "reserve" means that you have some amount of gas left after the guage reads "empty" As I'm sure you already know, "empty" on the guage is just an arbitrary mark that tells the driver "hey brainiac, you better get some gas in this thing soon before you drain the tank dry and strand yourself."
My old '90 Honda Civic had uncertainty as well below "E." You may know exactly how much gas you have at "E," but how do you know how much of that reserve you have left after you've driven for a while and the needle dips below "E" (especially if you don't know your real-time mpg)? I may be wrong, but I don't ever recall seeing any demarcation below the "E" signifying "Your engine will now choke." I also noticed that the needle would noticeably move up or down from its true position depending on the incline of the car as the gas sloshed around. Furthermore I believe the gauge was non-linear making it harder to guess at how fast the needle would drop.
Quite frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. I've never concerned myself with how much reserve I've had in any car I've ever owned (and I've never run out of gas either). When the needle got to "E" or dipped below "E," I'd just fill it up. Big whoop. I've never felt the need to whip out a calculator to figure out how many more miles I could squeeze out of the tank. When I pull into a gas station, I don't care how much fuel the car will hold. I just fill it up until the pump cuts off. Big Whoop.
Backy, why is it a problem if the reserve is not consistent? What's going to happen if you have only 1 gallon (40 plus miles) left as opposed to 2 (80+) or even 3 (120+)? If a practical joker rigged your car up with an extra gas tank that had a variable amount of gasoline in it that could be switched in to the system without affecting the reading on the gas gauge when the needle hit "E," would you even know it? I would think that most people would simply fill up when the needle hit on empty. The only potential problem I can see is if the gauge indicated "E" or above "E" with only a scant amount of gas in the tank, thus possibly preventing you from getting to a gas station in a reasonable amount of time.
Again, I don't see the big deal about the Prius' gas gauge--as long as it is consistent. That means it can even vary by temperature (e.g. less capacity in the winter), as long as it's predictable behavior.
My Prius is supposed to come in next Tuesday. The dealer said nothing of it being a 2005 model. When I have asked about the 2005 models coming out I have been told "September / October." What info, did you get about the 2005's being out now?
If they are out or close to being out, I'm wondering if I shoud wait......
Thanks for your help!
Re: Reserves. Oh, OK, my "low fuel" light comes on with about 5 gallons left (above empty on the guage).
Anyway, you all make my point - with your car, when the needle says empty and you go into the gas station, you KNOW approximately how much your tank will take. You also KNOW approximately how much further you can drive at your current speeds. If there is some question as to how much the tank holds (a variable tank capacity? Excuse me?), it becomes a game of chance. Here in the west, with gas stations sometimes 50 miles apart, that is a chance I wouldn't want.
(Yes, I realize the Prius could probably make that 50 miles on only one gallon).
I've been reading the reviews re the gas gauge discrepancies. I know there are those types of people who only put in $2 or $5 at a time versus people like me who just fill it up. I recently retired after working 30 yrs for an oil company. I know from pesonal experience what gas rationing did in the early 1970's. Back then gas stations were only open certain number of hours or would only sell limited amounts of gas per visit. When you COULD fill up, you WOULD. There are places here in California where you can easily be 50 mi from a gas station. When I get down to 1-2 bars I'm going to fill it up. It may be interesting to some to see how far down they can get and it may be good to know, but I don't feel like going there. What I prefer to do is to average out the last half dozen or so tankfuls to make up for the discrepancy of the bladder, cold temps and premature pump kick-off. Thanks to all for the info, we're all benefiting. Go Prius!!
Rich
Received: White Pkg #7 from VA dealer on 4/29/2004.
Yes, we decided to go to another dealer 2 weeks ago. By going to the Autotrader web site and E-Mailing many dealers in NC, KY, and VA, I found Oak Ridge Toyota in Lynchburg, VA. It is a very large dealership with large allocations of Prius's. There were 3 others there when we picked ours up yesterday. Of course they were all sold!! For a $500 refundable deposit which they hold, you can get on the list which was short 2 weeks ago because of their large allocations--4+ a month. We paid MSRP for Pkg #7 plus floor mats and wheel locks. The process was smooth as silk. We got there around noon and were out by 2:00. It was great to find a good dealer. The only drawback to switching dealers is that I think we lose the $300 rebate for the price increase, but, who cares after waiting 5 months. Believe me, it was worth the wait!! According to the computer, we averaged 50.8 on the 280 mi trip back.
I average around 48mpg going to work driving 23 miles...2/3 interstate and 1/3 city streets. Have put 8400 miles on the car which was purchased last November.
No problems and is a joy to drive.
Is it true that enterprise rents out Pruis? Strange..nerver thought that it could happen to such a hot car. Interestingly last week I also saw a Nissan Murano SL AWD with "e" sticker...hmmmm...may be I can try out Pruis for an extended vacation just for fun and poke thumb at yall people waiting in line ...LOL, just kidding
I am not into it, too small for my needs, but eagerly looking forward to hybrid accord this fall.