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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    I like the fact that the Prius' looks are unique and stand out from the rest of the crowd, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "truly beautiful", nor would I suspect most owners if they were being honest. Anyway, it's looks would not prevent me from buying one nearly so much as its sportiness, or lack thereof. I've always liked vehicles that are fun to drive (handle well). From the reports of owners here it appears that the Prius is certainly a very enjoyable car to drive but I doubt that they are thinking about its handling when the rave about the driving experience. It's a technological marvel in so many other ways, that gives most owners great satisfaction, but as Toyota and other car makes expand their offerings I am looking forward to a few choices that offer a higher fun-to-drive quotient. How about a IS350 hybrid that gets 35 mpg in the city.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Very well said. You definately get my point. And, the very cool thing about all this is that your idea is not far from reality in just several more years!! The Prius gets credit for paving the way, but let's look forward to TRULY beautiful and FUN Hybrids. Isn't it reasonable to think that the manufacturers will continue to IMPROVE them in ALL aspects of STYLE, PERFORMANCE, etc.?? The Prius will be remembered as a true pioneer, but the FUTURE will be even MORE incredible! (and, of course, ATTRACTIVE!!!)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You are talking like this will be the last Prius generation ever. How do you know that the Prius won't continue to evolve and improve, incorporating the latest hybrid technology?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    That's not what I'm saying at all. Of course the Prius will evolve. It already has done so with a major change from the first generation, and it was a great improvement!! I'm just saying that as the playing field gets MUCH larger, there will be many more interesting choices that will be more attractive, with better performance, more kick-in-the-pants to drive, and even more luxury on some models (if that's your desire). And I do hope that the Prius continues to evolve. It's a great pioneer, and it seems entirely possible and likely that the next generation of Prius would improve in its appearance. I think it will need to do that. There are GREAT looking sexy cars out there, but let's face it, they're not hybrids yet. But they will come.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    link title

    People are paying an 8K premium and are getting 25 mpg. My CRD does better than that.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It brings "behavior modification" to an interesting level. The truth is if every car (other than Prius hybrid) had the same/similar type of monitoring system, I am sure for the majority of folks who chose to use this tool, it would increase mpg by a like % amount. So really a large % is really NOT hybrid related.

    I don't have this same tool on my VW Jetta TDI; yet am able to get a range of 44-62 mpg. So it should be fairly obvious the on board tool makes it a bit easier when folks are trying to extract the maxium mpg.

    It is also particularly distressing that (i.e., one) Prius owner/s got 18,000 miles per set of tires!! I got 56,000 from my last set of Corvette Z06 tires !!!!???? More to the nexus is: I project 100-132k from the Jetta TDI tires.!!?? If I had this information before I looked at the Prius, I would have rejected it out of hand. Man this thing eats tires!!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    A Toyota spokesman contacted by ConsumerAffairs.Com insists that 30 to 36 miles to a gallon is not possible with a Prius unless driver error or a mechanical problem is involved.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    At 29,000 miles, the Michilin HydroEdges (760 treadwear rating) on my Prius are about a third of the way worn.

    That generalization about Prius eating tires has no merit. Any poorly maintained tire on any vehicle will wear out quickly.

    JOHN
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    30 to 36 miles to a gallon is not possible with a Prius

    If Toyota knows this is a common complaint, why aren't they advising the dealers on repair procedures or driver training? The OEM tires on my Suburban were still good at 7.5 years and 47k miles. Anything less than that on the Prius OEM tires would be unacceptable. It is about half the weight of the Suburban. The lousy OEM tires on the Prius is one of the biggest complaints. Toyota should pony up with a little better tire.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    So what kind of mileage did you get on your oem Prius tires? What is/was the UTOQ rating?

    To wit,it is interesting that you are only getting 8709 miles per 1/32 in on such a premuium priced and much longer wearing tire. This would project you getting less than the 90,000 mile mileage warranty!? Plus the Prius weighs less than the Jetta TDI.

    (Michelin Hydroedge's, as you probably know are very well rated) Also the Hydroedge is T rated vs H rated for the Jetta.

    On the Jetta TDI with GY LS-H oem tires of 360 utoq, it is coming out to be app 17,000 per 1/32 in. This would convert to a projected 136,000 miles. Actually I would be thrilled to get between 100-110k. So you are getting half as much wear on a 2x longer wearing tire tread than I am. Well rated, these tires are NOT. I have not had the tires balanced nor have I had an alignment (outside of having the delivering dealer verify alignment compliance)

    It is funny how you say I am generalizing and yet do not list what you actually got on your OEM tires.

    Also I was very upfront on what/why I would have used the information. So you are generalizing about what you perceive me to be generalizing AND not what I had actually said. So given your and my numbers, I stand by what I have said.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Of course Toyota was caught in an embarrassing position when folks got 44 mpg when they fully expected 60 mpg!! :(

    While I do not like the notion of folks suing for the above stated reason/s, it will be interesting to see if Prius owners' win their class action suit for their Prius' failing to achieve on a consistent basis, the mpg EPA rating.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Can't sue the EPA for ratings, because that's

    *ACTUALLY WHAT THE EPA GOT ON THEIR TEST*

    It's not actionable if it's true, which in this case it is.

    In the lab, EPA can duplicate these results.

    Does not mean it can reach that in the real world.

    Remember, everyone INCLUDING THE EPA knows the test is faulty.

    88% of vehicles do not reach EPA numbers....
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Frankly, I am not the one (or the segment) who needs convincing. It is YOUR fellow Prius' owner's. :):(
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Prius' failing to achieve on a consistent basis, the mpg EPA rating.

    Green hybrid website with 390 Prius II owners reporting their mileage paint a less than great picture. Out of those 390 owners only 24 are getting the EPA mileage. No one has shown proof that the tests were NOT done by Toyota. The lady that sent me an email from the EPA said it was not possible to tell if the EPA had done their own test on the Prius. By contrast a much higher percentage of Honda Hybrid drivers are able to get the EPA estimate. I think that Toyota is safe from any lawsuit with all the disclaimers on the window sticker. They are not safe from bad publicity. The media loves to write about bad stuff.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Given my own and others' Pruis' experiences, it seems the "behavior modification" control is the key to getting the 51/60 mpg EPA rating: specifcially 14-27% worth. However, this is almost 100% true of any GASSER. It would seem to me the gasser hybrid combination is PARTICULAR sensitive to any deviation (or less than ideal conditions) from this behavioral modification technique.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > do not list what you actually got on your OEM tires.

    That data has always been readily available.

    Here is the detail link again.

    JOHN
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Dear JOHN,

    For the 2nd time, I am specifically asking for the data on the OEM tires. I did read and amply understood on the first reading of your post that you UPGRADED your tires to the Michelin Hydroedge. I looked for the data on oem tires in your ramblings amidst the data and comments but it does not pop out at me. So at the tire upgrade mileage of xx,xxx, you had x/32 in left on the oem tires?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    Your generalization has been revealed! Originally, you stated Prius eats tires, all inclusive. Now you are focusing in specifically on the OEMs (which are cheap). What is your point?

    And for that matter, you drew a conclusion without revealing how. Where is your detail stating 1/32 of should last for XXX miles based on XXX treadwear rating?

    Without that info, the data itself has no context.

    As for my OEMs at 16,000 miles, they had lots & lots of miles left... only roughly 2/32 had been worn off. With my HydroEdges, I have no clue. The "third" comment was just a guess. Since the tires currently wet and sitting in 14F degrees, I couldn't care less about measuring right now. Check much later, they are still too new.

    JOHN
  • looking4priuslooking4prius Member Posts: 53
    I don't think that it is 'beautiful', but it is definitely functional, given that it is a hybrid. Give me functionality over a 'sexy looking' car any day. ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "Where is your detail stating 1/32 of should last for XXX miles based on XXX treadwear rating?

    Without that info, the data itself has no context. "

    Which I would whole heartedly agree, especially since you refuse categorically to provide it.

    So if the Michelin Hydroedge is in your words "an upgrade", then I would assume you got less than the app 8700 miles of wear per 1/32 in on the ome tires.

    I do indeed understand why you do not wish to put it in (any) context.

    "Your generalization has been revealed!"
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > you refuse categorically to provide it

    Again, I'm not the one attempting to generalize.

    All I did was provide specific data for a specific circumstance.

    Stop assuming and give us the data you have drawn your conclusions with... like what quantifies as "normal" and "too quick" for tire life.

    JOHN
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "Again, I'm not the one attempting to generalize."

    So why do you refuse to state this data? :)

    "Stop assuming and give us the data you have drawn your conclusions with... like what quantifies as "normal" and "too quick" for tire life."

    Actually it is YOU that is doing all the assuming. I have in a prior post stated EXACTLY that....and more. Not to confuse you with the math, but; is 17,000 miles per 1/32 in GREATER or lesser than 8700 miles per 1/32 in?

    Circular defective reasoning seems to be your forte!!??

    If I were very inclined to buy a Prius, I would be severely dis inclined after talking with you.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    LOL - Reminds me of the song lyrics of "if you wanna be happy"

    ....But if you make an ugly woman your wife
    A-you'll be happy for the rest of your life
    An ug-a-ly woman cooks meals on time
    She'll always give you peace of mind

    ....

    Cheers,

    MidCiow
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Strange how some think that you must choose between attractive and functional. Many cars are incredibly functional and very attractive at the same time.

    Just like many women, MidCow. You're not going to tell us that you married an ugly woman to get a good meal, are you? Heck, my wife is gorgeous and can "function" in the kitchen just fine, thank you. And I'll bet there are plenty of good-looking gals out there that can think with their brains, too. So, to say that you can't have a good-looking hybrid is absurd. Lexus is about to release their hybrid sedan, and it's not too bad. Mercedes has announced some plans, and the domestics are already at work. Almost EVERY Toyota will be available as hybrid eventually. There is no doubt that there will be more attractive hybrids in the future.

    MidCow, I hope your wife (if one would put up with you)doesn't read your post. (Just kidding, dude)!!

    Have F-U-N!!!!!

    TagMan
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    I see that you keep slightly altering the question each time, making it seem as though I'm not providing the requested answer.

    My response has repeatedly been to ask why you claimed Prius eats tires.

    There is simply no data to support that wear is accelerated by the hybrid. That very same OEM tire was used on the previous model of Corolla and the replacement miles were pretty much the same... proving it to be "normal", not "too quick" as you claimed.

    JOHN
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The questions are THE same. And yes, you have consistently NOT provided answers. If you were a car salesman, I would characterize your answers as evasive.(meaning it is probably worse since it appears you are covering it up) Or to be more politically correct, unduly optimistic. There is simply no data to support the notion that faster wear that other Prius owners reported is a statistical anomoly.

    So for example in comparison with a Honda Civic with a 320 UTOQ tire, I am getting wear of app 7000 per 1/32 in . In comparison with the Jetta TDI of 17,000 per 1/32 in (360 UTOQ) the Civic EATS tires. So if you carry that out, one can expect 136,000 miles vs 49,000 miles.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Let me get this straight... this bozo(ette) paid $8000 extra to get a Prius???!!! She surely is lacking something somewhere. Truth-challenged possibly. Based on this one fact the whole article is specious.

    As everyone on this forum knows the following statement from the referenced article is false:

    Deborah H. in Louisville, Kentucky is angry. "I feel there was false advertising by Toyota stating there was 50 miles per gallon on the highway and 60 miles per hour in the city driving my Toyota Prius hybrid," she wrote

    I know that this never happens but what if.... the writer was 'provided' a prewritten article from some well-intentioned source interested trying to stem the tide so to speak. Hey did you hear about the falsified uranium sources. These things do happen when the stakes are high enough.

    We've sold nearly 500 Prius' and none has been even one dollar above sticker. IMHO this story doesnt pass the BS test.. sounds bogus.. as in planted.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    If I had this information before I looked at the Prius, I would have rejected it out of hand. Man this thing eats tires!!

    The tires from Yokohama on the original 2001/02 Prius were too soft for the weight of the battery. They were all replaced by Toyota if the customers wanted them so. As you probably know tires on any vehicle are the only part not warranteed by the automaker. Toyota replaced them anyway when requested.

    On the Gen2 Prius the tires are the same as those on the base Corolla and Civic. No special comments. It's a non-issue but your concern is noted. ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "They were all replaced by Toyota if the customers wanted them so"

    So what did they replace them with?

    "On the Gen2 Prius the tires are the same as those on the base Corolla and Civic"

    What oem tires come with these two cars? For example my Civic came with Dunlop SP FE 20. This is probably one of THE WORST oem tires I have ever gotten on a new car. But on the other hand it is very hard to complain about the fuel mileage I get on this vehicle. :) After break in, 36-41 mpg. Of course it remains to be seen what the next set of tires will do in the MPG department.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Despite all the fears here, I stepped up and got mine this week. And guess what? I dont get the EPA values. Well That's not exactly correct.

    I can, as I wish, get 35 mpg, 45 mpg, 55 mpg and 65+ mpg for extended distances. It's entirely up to me and traffic. In my 150 mi daily commute I hit all of these for stretches of up to 10 mi min. In every case I'm doing the speed limit or slightly above it. ( I really was stopped on the 2nd trip home for going 11 mi over. The nice lady gave me a warning ).

    YMMV ;)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    They got rid of the Yokohamas and replaced them with Bridgestones.

    Gen2 OEM tires?
    ....run downstairs to look..... Goodyear Integrity P185/65R15..

    At the first opportunity I always switch out whatever OEM tires I get for Michelins.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Tirerack surveys have those tires at 28/31. the Dunlop SP20 FE is rated 30/31. Thank heavens for Firestones, they have 31 st place locked up tight! :(:) Pure dominance.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Your "progressive" commute really illustrates what I said in a prior post about the "computer" behaviorial modification tool. Seems like you also got an "assist" from the LAW :)

    Actually with 39,600 miles per year (commute only!!??) you are a perfect candidate for a TDI! :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    yep 40K commute.. then I have my own time..( not much ) 5-10K/yr.

    Funny about the 'behavior mod' comments. You guys should sell Prius'. Ever since they came out in 2001, I sold the first in our area, I've presented the instantaneous consumption display as a 'biofeedback' means to help the Prius 'teach' the new owner to drive more efficiently. It does work.

    The progressive mpg ratings are not consecutive in my daily drive although the 35 reading is always first as the vehicle gets limbered up. The first inning for this starter is always the hardest. ;)

    For the commute home, with the prevailing weather and mostly downhill, the mph readings for the 5 min segs are something like:
    35, 45, 50, 50, 65+, 65+, then 50-52 for next 8-10 segs @ ~60mph, then 55, then 80+ for the final minutes in our neighborhood @25 mph - all on EV mode.

    I find it very speed-dependent once the vehicle is warmed up. It also depends on the conditions also. This goes back to the awareness comments also.

    Into the weather or with the prevailing weather affects mileage 5-10% Differences in elevation have a similar effect. This is obvious stuff but in 20 mpg vehicles who cares. In 50 mpg vehicles the effects are multiplied because the effect is a constant percentage on a significantly larger variable. Going home from a 200' elevation to sea level - downhill almost all the way - as opposed to going the other way has maybe another 5-10% effect. It does for all vehicles it's just more noticeable with the feedback and with a high mpg vehicle, including the TDI ;) .
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    If this idiot paid $8k over sticker she truly deserves to be voted putz of the year!! Planted?? Spyder I do doubt that, but they sure chose a "dumb subject" for their piece.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    http://tinyurl.com/ca9sq

    You'll be pleased to know that the Prius does extremely well in the event of a crash.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    You'll be pleased to know that the Prius does EXTREMELY well in crash tests. Gotta love it!!

    http://tinyurl.com/ca9sq

    Works best with IE ----ENJOY!!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    i concur..
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Edmunds (I'm referring to this web site) has lots of information about vehicles and recently compared the Prius to the Honda Civic Hybrid (BTW, the new '06 Civic is 2006 Motor Trend Car of the Year). Edmund's chief editor got same result as others: REAL- LIFE mpg is BETTER in the HONDA than in the Prius, even though the Prius has a higher rating. So, there is a legitimate argument about the Prius REAL-LIFE MPG being considerably less than what is rated. The Honda Civic, on the other hand achieved much closer REAL-LIFE MPG to its ratings, and actually BEATS the PRIUS in REAL-LIFE. Plus, one additional benefit is that the Honda is so much more attractive, and offers better handling. In the comparison review, Edmund's chief editor selected the Honda as his choice between the two. If you haven't already put your money into a Prius, check out the Honda. And, remember, in addition to many other benefits, the Honda got (and gets) better REAL-LIFE mileage.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't know about all Firestone OEM tires. I will say in their defense, the OEM firestones on my 1999 Suburban were superb. They still had good tread a 47k miles and 7.5 years. I changed them due to weather checking. The vehicle was always parked in the sun. The dealer I bought the Suburban from in Sun Valley Idaho ordered all his with the best grade of OEM tire.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I did and I still preferred the Prius. The actual mileages are well within the driver-margin-for-error so that's not a factor for me. 46-48-50 mpg are all the same for me. Driver input is most important. 55 mpg is attainable often but so is 35 mpg if the driver doesnt used the best features of the system.

    The Prius has more room, better acceleration and IMO a better ride. Those were the deciding factors for me. The HCH is certainly a welcome addition to the US market.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Could you please post the link for the Prius to '06 HCH real-life fuel economy comparison done by Edmunds.com? I can't find the story anywhere. Thanks.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'm Curious. Why didn't you wait another month and go for the tax credit? I would think you could have arranged a 1/1/06 purchase for yourself. Or is this a business vehicle that will probably not qualify for the tax credit?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    You are most welcome!
    Here's the link to Edmund's recent comparison of the Prius and '06 Honda Civic Hybrid:

    link title

    If the link doesn't work, copy and paste this address in your browser and hit "go": (if that till doesn't do it, let me know)
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/category/cat.HondaCivicHybrid

    The review will credit both vehicles accordingly, specifically the Prius is a bit quicker with a cargo advantage due to the hatchback, but the review will show that the Honda handles better, looks better, and importantly gets better fuel economy. I agree with the editor . . . both good choices, but, I would also pick the HONDA!
    Have F-U-N!!
    TagMan
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Thanks, I was able to navigate to it--it was on the blog. But the final results were interesting (bold added by me):

    I can now report that the final numbers for the Prius and Civic Hybrid (after driving to San Francisco and back from LA) resulted in better MPG numbers for the Prius. Interestingly, on the drive up the Civic seemed to be doing better (mostly highway driving). But in San Francisco the Prius did better, and the increased power (from the electric motor) really helped out on the hills in S.F., giving the Prius much better mileage up there than Civic. An advantage the Civic didn't recover on the trip back.

    Don't forget that the Prius is noticeably quicker [note: they found it to be about 2 seconds quicker 0-60], so quicker and better MPG (48 Prius, 42 Civic Hybrid) are relatively indicative of the final finishing order in this test...

    All of us still like the Civic Hybrid a lot, and still think it is the more fun car to drive with better design (in and out). I'm sure there will be plenty of customers for both, and all of them will be happy with their purchase.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thanks, backy!!! Good perspective on the follow-up. I live in California (NOT San Francisco), but I know first-hand that the streets of San Francisco are NOTHING like ANYWHERE, and it was in that kind of environment that the Prius did better in mpg. In more normal and typical driving the Honda is the mpg winner. Either way, the original thread was the MANY complaints that the Prius didn't live up to it's mpg ratings, and I would like to point out that the Honda delivers a more REAL-LIFE result! Also, in my humble opinion, (and the Editor agrees) the Honda is better looking! Bottom line: two decent, but different, economy cars. My guess is that you either have a Prius or just prefer it. Me? I prefer the Civic, if I were to buy one of them, but I have no plans to. My auto needs are too darn lofty for my own good.
    Thanks, backy!
    TagMan
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    In more normal and typical driving the Honda is the mpg winner.

    And you know that to be a fact... how?

    If I were to buy a hybrid, I would get the Prius because I think it is the best fit for my needs, particularly the hatchback configuration and the extra room in the back seat. I almost took delivery of one in '04 but decided to go with a low-buck alternative instead, since I don't drive enough miles to make it financially justifiable and I was strapped for cash at the time. I'm glad to see that Honda has improved the Civic Hybrid, e.g. adding electric-only operation at low speeds. But it wouldn't make sense for me to buy one if I wanted a Civic, again because I don't drive enough to make up for the large price difference between a ICE-only Civic, which gets great fuel economy in its own right, and a Civic Hybrid.
  • falcononefalconone Member Posts: 1,726
    After reading that blog I'd buy the Prius too. More legroom, the versatility of the hatch, VSC (not and option on the Honda). Two seconds faster is a lot considering the Prius is not a road racer to begin with. Prius... I love it even more!!! Thanks Tagman!!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Hey F1, I thought you gave up on buying the Prius and were sniffing out a Lexus IS 350 or possibly a Bimmer? What's the latest on all this?

    It's no secret that you and "backy" like the Prius quite a bit, but it's also no secret that while I think it's a technological pioneer of it's own right, I could never bring myself to actually own something that looks like THAT. Don't take it personal, because it's OK with me if you LOVE the thing. I just don't have an agenda. (You know what I mean, F1?) BTW, at the car show I sat in the back seat of the Prius, and found plenty of legroom, but I couldn't sit up without hitting my head. I'm 6'1", and I noticed a number of other guys about my height having the same issue at the show. Let's be fair about this car. It's got some great things going for it, but it's got its faults, too. And, LOTS of folks think it looks unusual or peculiar (I wont use the UGL- word . . . whoops, I just did.) So, don't be overly defensive of your royal Prius. It's an economy car, and while it gives a lot of bang for the buck, you can only expect so much.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    backy,
    Another GREAT point! I believe the std. ICE Civic gets 30 city and 38/40 Hwy (manual/automatic). I agree with you that it DOES indeed make sense to get that vehicle over the hybrid (and over the Prius, too, IMO). It's a bargain by comparison, and . . . you can actually get a sunroof, which hybrid buyers are forbidden!!!!! Imagine that!!! Gotta love that sunshine!
    Thanks,
    TagMan
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