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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • numb3rznumb3rz Member Posts: 15
    Totally agree on the assessment. When I see a higher octane fuel at the pump, going for a couple cents less, I assume it's because of higher ethanol content. I wouldn't put it in my tank unless it was 30% less. That's the difference in energy between petroleum based fuel and corn gas.
  • dkrellerdkreller Member Posts: 5
    If driving a Prius is all about 'making a statement', what is driving a HH about?

    There is a glaring failure in your post to justify your position. Great discussing with you. Nothing like your type to shut down discussion. I wouldn't mind having more friends who are in your political fold, the problem is that they insist on shutting down discussions as soon as it might get interesting and as soon as they are asked to justify their position.

    I am not saying I hate you or your family, or everyone in your church, I am just trying to debate some ideas. There is a difference between people and ideas.

    The debate on religion is one I know more about than offshore drilling. If you are really a deep thinking and independently-minded person, have you really thought through the evidence for and against that position? Is everyone who doesn't see things your way 'out to get you'?

    Well, this was about ethanol in gasoline, but clearly this has gone off in a different direction.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Clearly.

    I drive a hybrid because it allows me to purchase less foreign oil. That's it, that's the only reason. But as much as I like to achieve that end, I don't want to raise food prices and starve people in developing countries by taking our corn and turning it into fuel. There is too much of our own oil in the ground and off shore to be doing that.

    As for the rest of your comments I don't even see the need to go there on this forum. Actually there is a forum on global warming that you would enjoy. They love to argue discuss there.

    What I have noted though, looking through these posts is that Prius, more so than any other hybrid, seem to attract tree huggers, global warming alarmist, SUV hating, left wing- non-religious people. I'm left wondering then just how comfortable I would be driving one. I really like the idea of 50 mpg but that's it. That's all there is to it.
  • dkrellerdkreller Member Posts: 5
    Hi wvgasguy,

    I drive a Prius for several reasons. I used to live in the Great Lakes region where air quality can be a real problem, and I love driving a car w/ very low emissions. I also teach environmental chemistry and about air pollution, so I like not being hypocritical about the emissions of my own vehicle and smog. I am married to a medical professional who knows the statistics about the effects of air pollution on health. It really bothers me when I have to endure the emissions of other folk's poorly maintained very inefficient vehicles. I don't want to bother anybody else or affect anyone else's health by my driving.

    Also, I am aware that we are going to run out of oil in the foreseeable future. Exactly when things are going to get tight is debatable, but I think it is starting to happen. I will probably switch my car to a plug-in as soon as it is economical to do so. I agree with you, it is good to help us move away from dependence on foreign sources of oil.

    Also, I am glad to support modern vehicles. In my eyes, 98% of the vehicles on the road are dinosaurs. I know that statement right there is going to upset a lot of folks, but we have just been allowing ourselves to keep producing and driving very inefficient and dirty vehicles. Hybrids are not perfect, I'll agree, but today's hybrids are a step in the right direction. Battery technology is improving at a good rate right now and in a few years the benefits of better batteries are going to hit the market. In short another reason I like driving a hybrid is that I am a supporter of cars getting cleaner and more efficient.

    It's a matter of perspective, and who you end up talking to. Perhaps there have been extreme alarmists and tree huggers on here but the Prius drivers I have met have been thoughtful and intelligent people. Sure there are probably some whackos driving Prii, but don't blame that on the car!

    David

    ps. I am sorry to have helped an discussion that is not appropriate to this forum get started here.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    I drive a hybrid because it allows me to purchase less foreign oil. That's it, that's the only reason. But as much as I like to achieve that end, I don't want to raise food prices and starve people in developing countries by taking our corn and turning it into fuel. There is too much of our own oil in the ground and off shore to be doing that.
    What I have noted though, looking through these posts is that Prius, more so than any other hybrid, seem to attract tree huggers, global warming alarmist, SUV hating, left wing- non-religious people. I'm left wondering then just how comfortable I would be driving one. I really like the idea of 50 mpg but that's it. That's all there is to it.


    Well my wife and I will be buying a 2010 Prius and believe me we don't hug trees. We also don't eat whales.
    I seriously doubt that any farmers will be contributing to global starvation by selling ethanol. Oh and I am 100% opposed to ethanol being used in gasoline. I thin farmers being paid to not grow food is stupid.
    The only political statement I want to make with my car is that I am tired of spending far too much money on gas.
    We drive a lot and the Prius will cut down on our fuel usage which will allow us to spend more money on other things.
    Lots of lesbians buy the Subaru Forester but that doesn't make everyone who drives one a lesbian.
    Sure environmental nut jobs will rally around the Prius until something greener comes along. Maybe they will migrate to the Chevy Volt? But not all Prius owners are enviro nut jobs.
    I've seen as many idiots driving a Prius as I have an SUV. Prius owners tend to drive slow and some SUV owners try and push you off the road. Both are wrong!
    Also give the president time. I used to be a hard-core republican so I'm real familiar with the workings of that party and for certain the cry would go out if McCain had gotten in office to give him some time to fix what's broke.
    So cut Obama some slack just like you would have with McCain and give him time to fix things. It's not going to happen overnight.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Don't let him bother ya, even the republicans are jumping ship. They see what the last 8 years did to America.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    dkreller: nothing I would post here would agree with anything whatsoever you have posted here, so I won't get into that. (Much as I would dearly love to). Having said that, wvgasguy and I are likely out of the same mold, for what it's worth. Yes, the climate does seem to be changing - just like it has in both directions for eons. I do not believe mankind has anything whatsoever to do with it, however. I also do not believe that carbon dioxide is a pollutant (of all things). Hey, I know...we could rid ourselves of a lot of it by cutting down all the trees. They give it off all night long. For my part, I drive an 08 Prius, frankly, because of ONLY two things: 1) I like getting wonderful gas mileage, and 2) I really like Toyotas and their quality reputation. I do not busy myself trying to "save the planet" or "save the whales" or any of that sort of thing. The earth is not my god (small 'g'). The environment isn't either. Nor is "science". And my concrete faith is hardly 'unsubstantiated' - quite the opposite. You should rent or buy the movie, "Expelled. No Intelligence Wanted"
    Ben Stein is quite good in it. And no, he is not a raving "religious right" type as you were wont to tag me with. And that's all I have to say about this other-than-Prius topic.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I'm an Engineer by education and training and though I have been a car nut for as far back as I can remember. I found that chasing horsepower is futile as they always come out with something bigger each year. I was concerned as I went to the "boring" Camry that I would indeed regret it. However I found the challenge of trying to achieve maximum FE every time out was fun (in its own way). The nav system energy screens kept me engaged in the process.

    Now I'm spoiled. I look at cars that get 20 city / 28 highway and I don't think that's good enough. I never noticed before because I would never have driven any economy cars but there are not any decent cars that get 30+ mpg on average. High highway EPA estimates look good on advertisements but I have never averaged much more than 10% over the city estimate so unless you have something like a hybrid where the city milage is more than the highway milage I don't think they would give me high overall averages. Even diesel won't give me the average I desire. (I had a BMW diesel in 1985 just for the novelty of it).

    My heart has been looking at the CTS and Pontiac G8 GXP and I like the new Camaro and 370Z. But, I've been telling my friends at work and church to be prepared for tough times and while I can afford high priced gasoline, I think I need to walk the talk. The enemy we fight do not mind living in caves without electricity. They could care less about killing their own countrymen either. The oil producing nations, many of whom support terrorist, should they be willing to cut their own financial piggybank, can bring the capitalized world to its knees overnight.

    One person cannot change all that. But one person can do their part. It's so easy to say the problem is too big and just ignore it. I decided I couldn't do that anymore.

    The Ford Fusion Hybrid, The Camry Hybrid and the Prius are the only cars I have on my list right now. The TCH is a bargan right now, the Fusion is fresh and more comfortable than the Camry (at least in the front seat) and the new Prius seems like a good compromise in size and utility with excellent FE. Throw in a few electrical goodies and I can even stay interested. Maybe enough that I won't keep turning my head every time a CTS passes me.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    Of course, there IS another consideration that should be made concerning the CTS (which I think is pretty cool, too btw) - and that is the fact that GM is in pretty hot water right now, and ... well - who knows? - are they going to be around in the future? Hard to say, but an orphan car could be a problem to sell later on. Just a thought. I agree with your message content.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    In Oregon, we have no choice. Ethanol in everything all year around. It cut about 4 mpg from my 08 Prius, immediately.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Don't worry GM will be around for a long time just a whole lot lighter. Do you realize what would happen to this country if Gm and Chrysler fail. Chrysler stated the other day on the news that one in every 10 people depend on Chrysler for a job in the U.S. That means the local bar, corner store, etc. get Chrysler money somehow if not from suppliers or dealers then from employees or if a warm weather city it could be Chrysler retired. Just think then what GM must input into the econ. In March GM outsold Toyota by over 20K vehicles so someone likes their cars. Anyway for me I'd go with the CTS as with 2 cars a motorhome and motocycle each one gets about 10K a year put on them. So at $2 a gal say the CTS gets 25mpg and the Prius gets 50. The CTS in my book would burn 400 gal. of gas to 200 for the Prius. So the extra 200 gal costs me $400 a year or about $7.70. At $4 per gal it costs me $800 or less than $15 a week. I'll take the CTS over the Prius anytime and as far as the people overseas living in caves etc. they have been fighting for thousands of years and I bet they fight for another 2K years so I'm not going to drive a small car as it isn't going to do a bit of good and plus at 6'4" I need legroom. Oh one more thing I have no desire to get a CTS if thats what you all think.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    far as the people overseas living in caves etc. they have been fighting for thousands of years and I bet they fight for another 2K years so I'm not going to drive a small car as it isn't going to do a bit of good

    True, and they will continue. But on 9-11 they brought the fight to us

    If 1 in 10 depend on Chrysler for our jobs then the other 9 must depend on Ford and GM. I really doubt that all of us would not have jobs if the Big 3 went away (not that I want them to)
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    It just breaks my heart that all of our own domestic reserves will stay in the ground, untouched during this current administration. And all for purely political reasons. We have considerably more available oil than even Saudi Arabia and the others, but it won't be tapped. The enviros are part of Obama's support group. His energy "czar" is on record as having stated that he (the czar) is in favor of $6 or $8 per gallon gasoline because it will curtail a lot of vehicle use "which contributes to air pollution".
    Well, yes it does. Never mind that it would destroy what's left of the American economy. That's not the really important issue. I love our Prius. Even if gas prices go absolutely over the cliff, we would still have at least some ability to get around. It would, however, pretty much destroy America. Almost as though that was what the whole idea was??
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Sorry this is not accurate. We do not have more reserves than anyone. Canada has far more and it's currently being mined. But.... it needs the price of oil to rise to near $75-90 / bbl in order to make it worthwhile to work the tar sand.

    All our 'easy oil' is gone or near gone. The low-lying fruit has all been picked. Bush's Energy Task Force reported this in summer 2007. You can now get down off your high horse.

    It's supposed to rain today and golf is cancelled..that is not Obama's fault..even tho the local GOP already has a press release out stating that very fact.
  • oldsargoldsarg Member Posts: 21
    To my shock I received my policy from my insurance carrier and found out that full coverage on a Prius is $1004.60 per year and $760.30 per year for a Lexus RX330. I called my rep and he said that the Prius would cost more to repair than a Lexus and has proven to sustain more damage. After all the glowing safety reports from the Prius crowd on this site, I was shocked.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Safety and damage repair are two completely different issues with the insurance companies. Yes both concern accidents but vehicles are intentionally designed to collapse around the passenger cabin deflecting the effects of a crash around the occupants in order to keep them safe.

    Your Lexus is several years old also. How old/new is the Prius?
  • acar1acar1 Member Posts: 4
    This is an intelligent design film, for those of you who appreciate the irony of "intelligent design" as the premise for taking the Bible literally.

    And no, I don't think Ben Stein has the scientific background to assess whether or not the planet's mechanisms to cope with CO2 can react fast enough to mitigate the current rapid rise in that green house gas. To say nothing of other naturally occurring green house gases, like Methane, that are also rising due to humans.

    Glad you enjoy your Prius. Hope you aren't teaching your kids that Darwinism led to the Holocaust per Ben Stein.
  • acar1acar1 Member Posts: 4
    4 wheel drive mode, eh?

    you actually graduated from college?
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I think Bob was applying a little humor to the conversation to lighten it up some
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    :surprise: Ya think?

    'But the sales guy told me everything was pushbutton, even the 4WD'. Wait, I was the sales guy. Oh yeah that's right I sold it to myself [ acid reaction from the 60's ].
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    So cut Obama some slack

    Actually I never mentioned him in my posting. However after just watching the news it does seem to me that rather than give money to Chrysler all he would have needed to do was come out and endorse Chrysler and the masses that are watching every move he makes and are simpy ga-ga over everything he does would buy a Chrysler. That would have saved them and not cost me anything.

    It does bother me that there is a lot of Anti-"Foreign" auto talk going on and as far as I'm concerned the Ford Fusion Hybrid is the only example of Detroit trying to help the environmental problems that the Political Left are touting and the dependance on foreign oil issues the Political Right is concerned about. Unfortunately both sides are still buying gas guzzlers.

    But all the talk has to hurt Toyota Prius, Camry Hybrid and Highlander Hybrid some, if not in sales then at least in public acceptance.

    The "average" Joe thinks hybrids are hyped. I just don't get it. I'm driving an SUV that gets 25 mpg. I had a car that averaged 37+ and am looking at one that should give me 50+ in the Prius. Even the "average" Joe should see that Toyota is designing a wide range of vehicles that as as good as you can get right now. They are so far ahead of the curve it's funny to compare them to anyone else.

    IF they would just make their cars somewhat more flashy and handle a tad better then most of the critism would have to disappear. Seriously what would it cost to make the camry Hybrid have just a little better suspension? Personally I thought the new camry is a good looking car and the people I hear critizing the looks now look like obvious Toyota haters and not really judging the car on its looks. The Prius is a little funky looking but the 2010 is crossing the threshold of something I wouldn't be embarrased to be in :blush: The Highlander Hybrid is comfortable, has a great second row seat and is very versitile.

    Don't expect me to buy American until they offer me acceptable options to Toyota.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    The "average" Joe thinks hybrids are hyped. I just don't get it. I'm driving an SUV that gets 25 mpg. I had a car that averaged 37+ and am looking at one that should give me 50+ in the Prius. Even the "average" Joe should see that Toyota is designing a wide range of vehicles that as as good as you can get right now. They are so far ahead of the curve it's funny to compare them to anyone else.

    Well hybrids are hyped... to the limit! it's what the marketing companies do. Doesn't matter what company. The Big 3 are dinosaurs. Slow to move and react and it takes them an ice age or two before they can alter their plans. There is a reason there are no dinosaurs left.
    GM can't make a car that can compete with Honda or Toyota, period. If they could have they would have done so... or would they? They make great small cars in Europe and yet these are cars that will never come to the US.
    I have no sympathy for any car company that could bring over small efficient cars and refuses to do so.
    As far as Fiat and Chrysler. I guess everyone has forgotten that Fiat = Fix It Again Tony. Fiat made a lot of crap cars and died in the US market as a result. Along with Triumph, MG, Renault, Peugeot and a whole bunch of others. Americans vote with their wallets. The Big 3 holding off on bringing over those small cars doesn't seem to have helped them any.

    IF they would just make their cars somewhat more flashy and handle a tad better then most of the criticism would have to disappear. Seriously what would it cost to make the camry Hybrid have just a little better suspension? Personally I thought the new camry is a good looking car and the people I hear critizing the looks now look like obvious Toyota haters and not really judging the car on its looks. The Prius is a little funky looking but the 2010 is crossing the threshold of something I wouldn't be embarrassed to be in The Highlander Hybrid is comfortable, has a great second row seat and is very versatile.

    I don't see why a hybrid or a diesel or any fuel efficient car can't be fun to drive. The Camry is a no brainer. Toyota wants it to have a soft suspension to steal older folks away from Buick. :P
    The Accord is much tighter and yet I know people who just hate that sporty feel in their appliance. They want a land yacht that floats down the road, no bumps no nothing. Kinda like the Buick Electras of old.
    I think most manufacturers have no idea what people want so they stick with whatever sells. For certain the Camry sells to people who like that isolationist ride.
    I can't see why they can't make sporty and fuel efficient cars but look at a Mazda Miata, it only gets about 25 mpg combined! Why is that? It's only 167 hp!

    Sadly car makers use focus groups and make generic decisions that will appeal to the most people. Toyota and Honda do not take risks per se'.
    GM and Ford couldn't come up with a new idea to save their corporate butts and Chrysler has been on the ropes for decades.

    Vote with your wallet, buy cars you like not just because of where they were built.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    GM can't make a car that can compete with Honda or Toyota, period. If they could have they would have done so... or would they? They make great small cars in Europe and yet these are cars that will never come to the US.

    You need to get it through your head now everybody wants a Honda or toyota. If GM can't complete against H or T than until last years fluke outsold T every year for what almost 75 years. To bring things closer to home in March GM outsold T by a little over 20 thousand unit. In April they sold more than 50 thou. more than T, heck even Ford out sold T in April. So it looks like you don't know what you are talking about. Here GM is in a world of hurt though not their fault but thats another story in itself and they still out sold big bad T. Get used to it there are other cars besides the Prius and those of us who can afford a little gas or those of us who are just to tall for a Prius or those of us who have worked hard for 40+ years feel we deserve a lux type car and by American whenever we can. I fit all the above and you won't find a foreign piece of clothes in my closet nor the same with my shoes. New Balance made in America instead of something else made by second graders. The talk here about oil and how it supports the midddle east maggets I bet have no problem supporting the companies who use 2nd graders to make their clothes. :P
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    You need to get it through your head now everybody wants a Honda or toyota. If GM can't complete against H or T than until last years fluke outsold T every year for what almost 75 years. To bring things closer to home in March GM outsold T by a little over 20 thousand unit. In April they sold more than 50 thou. more than T, heck even Ford out sold T in April. So it looks like you don't know what you are talking about. Here GM is in a world of hurt though not their fault but thats another story in itself and they still out sold big bad T.

    I'm going to assume you mean "Not everyone" and I agree. My point is not about the prius specifically. But the only reason GM sold more was the massive discounts they were offering. If Ford can make a car that gets 65 mpg in Europe but for some reason can't in the US then they have real problems.
    I don't want to see US plants shut down. I want to see domestic car makers manufacture BETTER cars. I do not see this happening at the moment. My last domestic was a 1995 Impala SS. Since then they haven't made anything I have liked. I would like to see decently built small cars from Chevy, Ford and Chrysler and cars that can last 10 years in real world driving but my memories are of far too many cars that fall apart not long after the warranty expires. That's not including the repairs during the warranty that the dealers try and weasel out of fixing.
    1-2 months of sales figures are meaningless unless they are taken in context. Massive discounts account for most of that, not an increase in quality.
    If GM and Ford are so great, let them offer a 4 year 50K mile bumper to bumper warranty on everything. It won't happen! They'd lose their shirt fixing all those cars.
    I sure do miss the domestic cars from the 1960's!
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    SeemsToyota has been offering some pretty good discounts too. I believe Caddy and Buick do offer 4 yr everything warranty and all of GM offers 5/100 powertrain in which T don't/can't. There seems to be a lot of complaining on all the other T sites with problems on trucks, Camrys etc. I can remember fa couple years ago here there was also a bit of complaining going on with things wrong like the displays going bad and the huge price to replace. I think all cars have problems but it is how the dealers/manufacturers treat you and from what I have read on the T sites they don't treat customers very well on warranty items.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Everyone is discounting right now. In a market with limited buyers they will do all they can to take their share. Reality for Toyota is that when a CTS and STS are discounted $10K and priced with a loaded Camry rather than a Lexus, then they have a problem. It used to be they would ignore that, they still got their market share. But really the problem is with the CTS and GM. Selling cars at a loss cannot be made up on volume sales. If GM comes out with the CTS at pricing they had in January I may indeed forget about the 2010 Prius for a while. Fitzmall had a CTS for $32K back then if you qualified for the various discounts. I didn't then, I do now (it had extra money for terminating leases).

    No one would offer a warranty at all if they didn't have to in order to sell their cars. The longest warranties are offered by companies where the perception (right or wrong) is that the car will be expensive to maintain or won't last long.

    I've never bought an extended warranty on a Toyota because whatever glitches they have are usually worked out early. The 36,000 to 75,000 mile time frame is typically troublefree for most.

    Interesting on the Caddy. I've been looking at the CTS and if they have a 4yr bumper to bumper warranty they should advertise that more as that is a selling feature on a car with a lot of electronic's that I don't trust longterm. I'll have to look into that.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    and BTW, the two Toyota Dealerships I have dealt with were great. So have the two Ford dealerships where I have purchased as well. may be the difference in small town America and Metropolitan areas. The dealers where I purchase know me by name when I stop in to browse.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    The CTS is a sharp looker, but I wouldn't buy any car or truck without first checking the annual auto issue (April) of Consumer Reports. CR compiles owner comments during their annual survey and rates them accordingly. GM stuff that's actually made by GM is not rated very well. As a matter of fact, absolutely nothing from Chrysler is recommended by CR! If a person wants luxury, buy a Lexus. If you want luxury with a poor reliability record, but with a long warranty, and enjoy taking the vehicle in for warranty work on a regular basis, pick a Cadillac or Lincoln. Then try unloading them when gas shoots up to the sky once again.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I have been consider waiting for the Lexus 250h. Don't think the ES is worth much of a premium over the Camry and the Lexus I would like is over $50K. More then I want to spend to have a third vehicle. I like the styling of the 250h over the Prius but I'm expecting it to be a steep premium and since it has the Camry engine it's probably going to be more like a 40 mpg avg. Thus I'm still comparing the 2010 Prius and the FFH.

    The CTS at $32K though would sway my decision. As a third vehicle it would not be the daily driver and reliability is not as big a concern as long as GM still is making Cadillac's and the warranty is still intact. If I get the Prius it will be the "go to" car for everyday driving.

    I like the idea of having at least 1 economy car though so it will take something big to push me in a different direction.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    My wife has a STS which has been very relieable going on 3 years with only one trip to the dealer for repairs and that was the Navagation system which is made by a German company and 1/2 owned by Toyota which uses the same system in the Lexus. So is the Caddy to be blamed for a Toyota problem. So that is how toyota gets their good rep by selling junk to GM.
  • stevegoldstevegold Member Posts: 185
    The navigation system in my 2004 Prius was made by Danso which I believe is an Australian company. I did have to have the screen replaced (it went blank) under warrantee after a year or two. No problems since then.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    The navigation system in my 2004 Prius was made by Danso which I believe is an Australian company. I did have to have the screen replaced (it went blank) under warrantee after a year or two. No problems since then.

    It's Nippon Denso actually and it's a Japanese manufacturer. They make Nav units for quite a few companies.
    Better off buying a portable GPS, much cheaper and more easily upgraded or replaced.
    If a built in Nav unit breaks, it's no big deal as long as it's under warranty. If it's not... you're screwed!
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Well, all things considered, if the NAV in the Prius is like the Camry Hybrids, it's not much of a navigation tool. Adequate, but not as easy to use or up to date as the garmins. It has the advantage of a large screen though for those of us 50+ who seem to be the Camry target. However I seldom used the NAV screen. I would have paid the price of the NAV on the TCH just for the various energy screens. Since this was my first "boring" car after years of driving something I felt affection for, the energy screens gave me something to like at first sight on the TCH. After I got to know her better it was love. She was no longer a wallflower to me.

    I really don't think I would have developed a sense of how to utilize the hybrid system adequately without the energy screens. I reset it just about every trip, short or long, and then learned how to approach each trip to game the system. It actually made driving fun, even when driving slower than others.

    As far as reliability on cars, I like the reliability of Toyota's. But I'm not really down on other brands, except for Audi, Subaru and Chrysler, of which I figured getting burned once was enough. I've owned a little bit of everything. I even got burned on the Nissan 350Z and the alignment issues but I find myself looking at the 370Z and wondering if I should give them a second chance. Perhaps later when I retire I'll want a sports car again, or at least a sporting car (I really do miss the Infiniti FX45_wish it got better milage)
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    Not my intention to be rude, thoughtless or a jerk. Just going on what I've read or heard from reliable sources (as to amount of oil we could go after). Current politics from the White House says environment is first, American economy is less important. I don't care to go any deeper with the political talk. I might be the only Conservative on earth that owns a Prius, but so be it. I have a lot of concern and respect for the earth I live on; I just don't bow down to it as so many are inclined to do.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    I should clarify my comments on Cadillacs, etc. I was just relaying what I have read in Consumer Reports. For many years, not just recently, CR has shown less than wonderful reliability ratings on most GM and Chrysler vehicles and for many Ford products. Exceptions were predictably made for models produced by Asian sources. No one can make the claim (including me) that all Cadillacs, Lincolns, Chryslers, etc., are "no good". That's ridiculous! But on the other hand, those and similar domestic-sourced vehicles tend to be of lesser quality than their Asian competitors. My wife and I do not have a lot of financial resources. It was a real stretch for us to purchase our 2008 Prius, but we were glad we did. I guess it's just difficult for me to hear of someone putting out $30-50 thousand dollars on vehicles with not-so-hot reliability ratings. Bottom line? Buy whatever rings your chimes! If you get great reliability, I'm happy for you!
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    Message #7229 - I agree with 100% of your message.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    You obviously have not seen the film. All Ben Stein does in it is interview well known individuals on both sides of the issue. He doesn't take a stand. He asks pointed questions and we are shown the answers given. He leaves it to the viewer to decide for him/her self. You cannot slap a label on it as an "intelligent design" movie.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I might be the only Conservative on earth that owns a Prius,

    I may soon be #2
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    Awriiiight! ;)
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I was just relaying what I have read in Consumer Reports

    :) I seldom rely on anything any journalist has to say, even Consumer reports. Although I do like the little red balls beside "issues" for reliability. I think CR may be changine their ratings some, I don't keep up with them. One thing I always disliked was that the ratings don't delve into the distinction between "serious" issues and those easy to fix.

    For example my TCH needed aligned from the factory. It caused the front tires to feather within the first 5000 miles before I rotated them or even noticed the problem. That would have been a black mark but a simple alignment fixed it. My 2003 Nissan 350Z chewed the tires up, they made a noise so bad in the first 4000 miles that I was embarrassed to have a friend ride with me. I hassled Nissan with that problem, getting alignments, changing tires rim to rim and eventually they gave in and put new tires on it. They started doing the same thing. I dumped it. I absolutely loved that car but the hassle and knowing what the future expense would be to own it after warranty worried me. I assume they fixed the problem. However in CR that too would probably show up ony as a black ball beside suspension. Two similar problems, two seriously differing degrees of issue.

    My first Expedition needed a new rear end at 700 miles. Made me mad enough that my next two vehicles were Sequoia's. had I not traded the Sequoia for an Infiniti I would still be driving them. But in the break away we came back to Expedition because of "value" (read that as X-plan pricing and large rebates). The rear end was fixed and I'm sure someone is still enjoying that SUV. My current one has been trouble free.

    My Audi experience was electrical. I'm pretty convinced that electrical problems are hard to fix and would occur across the line. The Germans have absolutely beautiful interiors and sweat the details but they need to sub out their electrical work to the Asians. They are too proud to do that I guess.

    To me reliability has not been a problem as long as I have a garage near by and it's not the vehicle I depend on. Actually I typically have 3 vehicles and a company vehicle to choose from. But even with that I don't want a vehicle that has issues that can't be fixed.

    The Prius has proven itself. Sure 1 in every 50,000 (made up number) may lose a battery or a display but I can live with those odds. I don't consider the Toyota Hybrids as a risky choice. I do however have some concern with the FFH long term. And it's not the hybrid part I worry about. Electric windows and door locks, radios, a/c compressors, etc... are the things that concern me. They can eat you up over the long haul if you keep a car for an extended time. I have not done that yet but the thoughts of doing that keep me interested as a challenge. I'm curious if I can beat Bob and run a Prius 300,000 miles. It would only take me 10 years.

    I know if I get a CTS it would be a 50,000 mile love affair and then it's gone. Once you get addicted to glitz or horsepower there is always something new coming along to tempt you. I decided when I got the TCH not to play that game, but I still get tempted from time to time.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    A lot of people including me think CR gives GM bad ratings for no reason other than they prefer Japanese products.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    I know there are no perfect cars - and never will be. I rely a lot on Consumer Reports
    because I believe they do the best that they can. As most people realize, they do not "accept" vehicles from manufacturers, they purchase their own for testing, anonymously. They accept no advertising, etc. I believe they give a reasonably accurate portrayal of how a particular vehicle will hold up, etc. A lot of their info comes from the annual survey they send out to subscribers, the people who actually own and drive these vehicles. The results received plus the results of their own testing is how they arrive at their findings. In the April issue of this year, they found that the Prius was their top pick from over 300 vehicles tested and reported on. I was delighted - needless to say.
  • rick294rick294 Member Posts: 77
    I choose not to believe that is true. I believe they are much more objective than that. Were that the case, I think they would lose a ton of subscribers really quick, including me. One example I've found is that when, say, Toyota or Honda comes out with a completely new model, CR will not automatically assume the vehicle will be top notch. No, they insert "new" where reliability and owner satisfaction shows on the rating. They strive to be accurate and fair, but no one's perfect, either.
    I've heard (and read) complaints in letters to CR over the years of just that - bias. I guess when someone's favorite doesn't rate very well, they become resentful and blame the one who down-rated it. After all, it couldn't be something wrong with the vehicle. And I don't mean that to be offensive.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    Well, all things considered, if the NAV in the Prius is like the Camry Hybrids, it's not much of a navigation tool. Adequate, but not as easy to use or up to date as the garmins. It has the advantage of a large screen though for those of us 50+ who seem to be the Camry target. However I seldom used the NAV screen. I would have paid the price of the NAV on the TCH just for the various energy screens. Since this was my first "boring" car after years of driving something I felt affection for, the energy screens gave me something to like at first sight on the TCH. After I got to know her better it was love. She was no longer a wallflower to me.

    The in dash nav units will most likely be money that cannot be recouped when the car is sold. I also like a big screen but the new Garmin and Tomtoms are considerably better and for around $500 they actually offer all the built-ins do.
    I will miss the big energy screens on the Prius but they have to cut money somewhere, so it's the backup camera and energy screen.
    I'm a fan of Honda and Subaru but have owned many makes and will never buy a Ford again nor any thing Chrysler touches.
    I want to see a sports car that gets good fuel economy like maybe a hybrid or diesel Miata. The Mini Cooper S will be coming out with a diesel in it's John Cooper Works but that's more about performance than economy.
    I miss some of my prior sports cars but no place to drive fast up here.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    A NAV car should pring a % of the original cost back, but certainly not enough to justify to outrageous cost.

    Just assisted my daughter tonight in picking out and purchasing a 2010 Ford Fusion. Good price, nice car. It had a more comfortable rear seat than the CTS I sat in. Not that I'd buy it over the Camry, but I did like the interior better. She fell in love with the SYNC and remote start (she doesn't park in a garage and hates to sit in the snow to warm up her car).

    I checked with my sales buddy and had him change his 1st choice on his 2010 Prius allocation to Blizzard White with brown leather. Hopefully when it comes in he'll deal and I'll not have to walk and go look at a white FFH which I can get at X-Plan pricing
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    How about the new Corvette which I think is called the ZR1 or something with 638 horsepower & 20mpg which isn't half bad for that horsepower or the cheap vette gets 25mpg with 430 horses. You can you even say sportscar and Miata diesel or god forbid Mini Cooper. Those aren't sportscars there pretend wantabe's. You should have your mouth washed out with soap.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    "You should have your mouth washed out with soap."

    He didn't say it he typed it.

    Perhaps he should have his fingers washed with soap? :shades:
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    How about the new Corvette which I think is called the ZR1 or something with 638 horsepower & 20mpg which isn't half bad for that horsepower or the cheap vette gets 25mpg with 430 horses. You can you even say sportscar and Miata diesel or god forbid Mini Cooper. Those aren't sportscars there pretend wantabe's. You should have your mouth washed out with soap.

    Well unless you have a track license and a bucket load of money your new Vette is not going to go any faster than my wife's Honda Fit. Bottom line is due to the bad economy the cops have become very vigilant of speeders. So while you can speed you'll get caught pretty fast up here and by speed I don't mean 10-15 mph over the limit.
    As far as a Miata being a sports car it is every bit a sports car and in fact is at least as true to it's heritage as a Vette. Arguably a sports car is 2 seats, 2 doors, manual transmission and a convertible top.
    Lots of 911 owners don't like that definition but speed is not part of the equation. Otherwise the older sports cars wouldn't count and they defined the definition.
    Someone once said "it's better to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow."
    So when you are stuck in traffic at 70mph in a 600-700 hp car getting (if you are lucky) 25mpg have fun because you won't get to enjoy the speed the Vette was built for.
    Diesels are fun to drive. ;) I know because I've owned them when I was in Asia for 5 years. If you want a big V8 muscle car then by all means get one. When gas gets back up to $4 a gallon or higher if they add on more taxes, you will have to get a second job to pay for your gas. :sick:
    Oh and to correct your error the MINI is coming out with a John Cooper Works package with a diesel engine. The Miata just has it's 167hp gas engine and yes it's still a sports car.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    When gas goes to $4 say goodbye to diesel as it will go a whole lot higher which will take away the mpg factor plue the many thousands extra to buy a diesel plus all the disavantages of smell, gelling noise oh did I also say the price of a diesel etc. But go for it if thats what turns your crank.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    When gas goes to $4 say goodbye to diesel as it will go a whole lot higher which will take away the mpg factor plue the many thousands extra to buy a diesel plus all the disadvantages of smell, gelling noise oh did I also say the price of a diesel etc. But go for it if thats what turns your crank.

    At least I am not ignorant of diesels. but you most likely read only US related things.
    Diesel will be higher because of higher taxes on it. Also how many diesel cars have you owned? Driven? I lived in Asia for 5 years I drove a lot of diesels and I owned a Toyota Diesel Hi-Lux. You are spewing misinformation when you talk about smell and gelling and costs are high right now, but would come down if more is made. Also most diesels get far better fuel economy than hybrids... just not the ones they bring to the US.
    The few diesels that are sold here are unreliable VW's (engine good, rest of car bad)
    If you haven't driven diesels in other countries, I suggest that when you graduate high school you travel extensively as I have and try cars that you can't buy in the US. You would probably change your mind, since diesel is cheaper than regular gas in many countries.
    Gelling is not an issue since you get a winter blend for it. so unless you are driving a Peterbilt to work it's a non-issue until it's 20-30 below zero.
    Anyway there is a diesel forum so people can endlessly debate the merits of diesel. I'd buy one but not a VW and I can't justify buying a Merc.
    The Prius battery gets low in cold weather also, so nothing is perfect. I'll still buy the Prius until they bring over a decent diesel with a realistic price.
    But you can bathe in ignorance if you like, it's still a free country. :P
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