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Any input?
Well, let's say its a GT vs. a Z28. The Z will cost a bit more (according to Edmunds numbers), but will be quite a bit faster (almost a full second to 60), but its a couple hundred pounds heavier. BUT, you want to know about reliability. I'd say flip a coin. I've always been partial to the Chevy 350 in terms of parts availability, ease of repair, and general reliability, but the Ford 4.6 has proven itself over the years to have pretty stout internals. I've found you can usually count on all the pumps needing replacement on the Ford at about 140K miles, but that's really not a huge deal, if you are a mechanic that is (IIRC correctly, that oil pump that will fail at 140K needs to have the engine jacked up and oil pan removed).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've owned 6 F-bodies (3 Camaros, 3 Firebirds) and no Mustangs.
The V-8 Z-28 Camaro or Firebird Formula/Trans Am are the performance bargain of the century. These cars are a rocket. That Corvette derived LS1 or LT1 engines are remarkable in that they have mucho horsepower down at the low RPM's where you can use it.
The difference in the V-6 versions and the V-8's are:
The power difference (of coarse)
The V-8's have a tighter suspensiona and handle better around corners
The V-8's have that cool V-8 growl
Think of the V-6 as a sporty looking car with a little more power that handles better than a family sedan. Think of the V-8 as a little rocket waiting for you to unleash it.
Expect reliability to be about average compared to a wide selection of cars (much better than a Hyundai or VW but not as good as a Toyota). I would think that reliability of a Camaro versus a Mustang would be about the same. Check the reliability ratings here on Edmunds. My one little comment is that (in my experience) Ford parts tend to be expensive relative to GM parts. So just maybe it will cost a bit more to repair a Mustang.
Expect your insurance to be higher on a sports car than on a econobox or a family sedan. That V-8 Camaro likes to idle down the road at about 80 miles per hour. If you are young and unmarried with a poor driving record then expect to pay through the nose for insurance. I had a (young) friend who after getting three or four speeding tickets was paying more for his insurance than his Z-28 car payment. The V-6 version insurance rates are much better since the horsepower is less. Since I'm a good driver my rates were just a bit higher than for any other car. You'll need to talk to your insurance company to find out the rates for you. Do this on any car that you are considering Camaro or otherwise.
Gas Mileage on either the V-8 or the V-6 are pretty good - much better than you would expect. I used to get 24-25 miles per gallon in a V-8 Firebird formula on my 45 miles commute to work. The V-6 Firebird that I had was a bit better and got maybe 26 mpg. You can look up the EPA mileage numbers on these cars here on edmunds.
The other thing about these cars is the fun factor - and they are great in this category. Life is too short to drive an econobox.
Death rates are also horrible, but I think a lot of that is just the demographic they appeal to, mostly young males.
-juice
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0900.- pdf - see the end of the document for the sports cars
For what it's worth the Camaro received the best barrier crash test rating of ANY car when it was crash tested in 1994.
I will concede though that performance cars tend to attract a reckless demographic skewing accident statistics
Still, I think there are better choices for a first car.
Ironically, my first car was a used Mustang, a 1981 Mustang Ghia with a 3.3l I-6 engine. It was junk, though, slow and still had sky-high insurance rates. I really think it was a poor decision on my dad's part to give me that particular car (it was a surprise).
-juice
Well that twin paradox is puzzling isn't it ?
I can only guess:
Perhaps the demographics and ability to drive a car of the two driver populations (Corolla & Prism) are different. Perhaps the cars are similar but they are not exactly the same. Their differences result in different collision and and likelihood of accident characteristics.
Maybe another poster has some ideas ?
Also, this probably isn't what you want to hear, but consider whether you actually 'need' a car at 16 or 17, or whether you could get by using a family car, the bus or getting rides from family, neighbors, friends and co-workers. Cars are expensive, it's not a decision to be taken lightly. To many younger people, they initially represent 'freedom', but in reality, they take a lot of time (working, worrying) and financial freedom away from you, no matter what age you are. You can talk yourself into buying a car because you 'need' one to get to work (at likely a lower-paying job), only to discover you're working almost exclusively to pay for the car, to the detriment of your grades, your family responsibilities and your remaining social life. Most of us have already learned this the hard way. Be careful, and good luck!
If you do buy a car, buy cheap. There is no need for you to own a $20k car at this stage in your life. I would look for a 7-8 year old Escort, Buick, etc. with about 85k for somewhere in the ballpark of $3-4k. The cars tend to be pretty reliable but make sure that you have a mechanic check it out for you.
As for how to get an advantage on the purchase, do your homework. If you run out and buy without doing the research, you will get an expensive lesson. Dealers are there to make a profit. I am there to get the best possible deal, It is a zero-sum game in that anything that the dealer gets comes out of my pocket.
Unless you can get a co-signer (parent or relative), this whole discussion is moot. That is, most smart people will not sell to a minor. Why? Because in Contract Law 101, any contract is VOIDABLE. That means that the minor can cancel any transaction or IOW, the seller could have the sale fall through after completion. Your cosigner won't have that option.
Hope that helps.
I got my first car a few months before I turned 17. It was free, as my Mom gave me her old 1980 Malibu coupe. But my stepdad made me get an insurance policy in my own name, which when you're 16 or 17 ain't cheap! And if you're male, I don't think it becomes cheap until you turn 25! At least, that's when mine really went down, but I also got married at 25, which helped too.
But anyway, I still remember that first year of insurance. $1,361. And that was back in 1987! I'm sure it would be a LOT more than that today! I was working at a veterinary clinic part time after school back then, maybe 19-21 hours per week. In the summer, they'd let me work more, like 35-40. It only came out to like $4000 per year, so essentially just the car insurance was taking 1/3 of my take-home! And then there was gas, maintenance, repairs, etc.
I was still able to save a little money, but at that time there was no way that I would've been able to go out and actually buy something from the dealership! At least, not anything fairly new. And it's not like I could pick up any more hours because of this little time-waster called "school" ;-)
And that's an important thing. Make sure that you don't get in over your head by over-working yourself to pay for the car, and making your school work suffer. You may not feel the pain now, but ultimately that's something that you could be paying the penalty for, for years to come, as it might be harder to get into a decent college, or even a community college, reduced wages down the road, etc...
Once you've narrowed it down, do you shopping on the 'net.
At least that way you deal with a car dealership as little as possible. You will need to do test drives, but show your research and hopefully they will take you seriously, especially since you went through all that trouble and even got a price quote.
-juice
mike
I'd personally go for a honda. They might be cheap but they can last you forever. (Well if people call Honda's cheap, what is an Escort/buick)? ACtually they depreciate more since they are american-made.
There have been Honda's that last 300-400k miles. I personally think a 2-door Prelude is a nice car and the base tranny is a 5-spd. for 1992-1996, you can choose from 3 trim levels: the S, the Si, or the VTEC. They come with 4 cylinder engines(base one is a 2.2L, which is peppy, and the 2.3L.) Consumers highly recommend 92-96 Preludes and they say to get a low mileaged one. The second thing they say is if you want more style and performance you get the Si or VTEC.
Really.? there's only about a Kazillion Buicks out there with 125/150k+ ticking away on the Odo's and never missed a beat .. just because they may not be pretty and don't say "Honda" on the back doesn't mean they don't go shoulder to shoulder and toe to toe .......
Terry.
Let's see my Ciera has 105k trouble free miles with one $300 repair other than normal maintenance. And I have friends with Buicks that have 150+ with no major problems. Unlike my sister's Accord with the blown engine at 50k.
The original request was for a car UNDER $3K. Where you going to get at THAT price on a Honda -a 12 year old with perhaps 175k. IOW, you are going to get a car that has been ridden hard for a long time.
Depreciation is a GREAT thing for a used car buyer. It gets me a good deal. I would take a 2 year old Taurus at $6k any day over an 2 yr old Accord for what - $15k. The same function at half the price.
Unless you like to constantly replace head gaskets, steering racks, transmissions, idle speed motors, window regulators, etc. There's a reason why they sell cheap used! I've had enough of them to know!
Saturns are nice first cars, and you will pay less insurance. But gosh, no matter what your price range, if you are a young male, your insurance will be pretty high.
A tip: dress like a geek when you go to sign the insurance policy. (Big ugly sweater, find some big glasses...)
I think that may have been why mine was cheaper, or maybe because a Riviera is a big old tub. Big old 2 door tub. I have an '04 Corolla now, but don't bother looking for an 03+ Corolla because their resale is actually higher than I thought. Insurance is low, even though I slipped in a supercharger and xenon headlights.... or maybe because I'm 31....
Don't let your car payments ruin your life. If it's too pricy, don't buy it. If you do, your friends might be going on a vacation while you sit at home.
Good luck!
-juice
Now, you couldn't give me a Saturn.. but, I thought that was reasonably cheap transportation.. and, I'm assuming that you could negotiate a further discount from these asking prices... Probably half the cost of a comparable Civic..
regards,
kyfdx
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The Saturn dealer near me has fixed prices on all of their cars (The Saturn Way). So maybe there wouldn't be any negotiation for the cars you saw in the paper.
Prices tend to be around 1000-1500 over wholesale book. Cars are clean and probably run well.
I'd purchase one if I were in the market for a economy car.
And whoever suggested the 3800 GM engine, I'll chime in and agree it's one of the best engines ever produced by anyone.
Which begs the question...WHY would GM feel compelled to buy V-6 engines from Honda?
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Seems like they would be embarassed.
I bet in Europe people were saying "I can't believe Honda can't come up with their own diesel engine" back when the deal was first made.
Now Honda builds their own diesel. But let's be fair, they leaned on GM, too. Well, Isuzu actually, which is owned by GM.
-juice
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-juice
Neither of us has purchased a car before.
I've been reading through information and forums here, and I'm still unsure about what to narrow my focus on. I'm hoping to get some advice.
I'm looking for a car with good long term value. For now the car would be used primarily for my wife commuting, and probably for occasional road trips for the two of us. Safety, reliability, mileage, and cost are important to me. Style, capacity, luxury, resale value, and brand name are not in themselves important to me. I'm not too worried about depreciation, since we're generally willing to keep driving our cars until it's no longer practical to do so. My wife only drives automatics right now, so I'd prefer to get one of those, though I'm trying to teach her manual (since my car is a stick and is currently our only vehicle). If a manual is a significantly better value, we might be willing to go for it.
I'm willing to purchase a new or used car. We have money saved, so we could reasonably use cash to purchase a new car and drive it 10-15+ years. I'd really appreciate some advice, both general and specific.
1) Would you recommend getting a used or new car?
2) Are there specific models and years that you would recommend? (Even links would be cool)
Thanks,
latham
So the obvious question would be, have you considered purchasing another Accord, or looking at the Camry? Neither of these cars are going to blow your hair back style-wise, but they meet your primary criteria.
Do you have a budget in mind?
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As far as the Camry and Accord go, I'm not sure what benefits they offer over the Corolla and Civic that justify an increased $5k, or for that matter over an Echo, Elantra or Accent.
Many members will steer you away from the Elantra & Accent because of reliability and quality issues.
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Many people who post here are not believers in any Hyundai product, but they do give you great value. With the standard warranty, the covereage is the best available and if you plan on keeping the car forever, you can purchase a 10yr 100,000 bumper to bumper warranty as well.
Dollar for dollar, you can't beat these cars.
Alright everybody fire away.
I can't see buying one new...
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