Selecting and Buying My First Car

kyfdx · February 2005

autotrader.com

cars.com

Your local paper

qbrozen · February 2005

one of my favorites is getauto.com

jchan2 · February 2005

Try eBay. Sure, it might be a little risky, but you can lower the risk factor by buying from someone with a high feedback rating and by looking for ones that are CarFax certified, whatever that means.

I agree that the Impala is a better car than the Taurus. But both are screaming deals, in my opinion. Too bad they dropped the Duratec V6 from the 2005 Taurus Sedan. On the Wagon I think you can still get the Duratec. But for the sedan, its back to the old Vulcan 3.0L 155 horsepower V6.

If you really don't mind shelling out more for gas and accepting a mildly higher risk factor, I think bidding on eBay on an Impala or Taurus might be the way to go.

latham · February 2005

My wife and I ended up getting a brand new 2005 Elantra GLS manual for $9,123 + TTL. When we saw the ad, we couldn't pass it up. The value for the brand new car was well worth it for us.

I just wanted to thank all the people who helped educate me and give me many pieces of valuable advice in the work to replace my wife's stolen car. I know I learned a lot, and feel very good about how it turned out. You folks made a difference.

Thanks!!

jchan2 · February 2005

Congratulations on the Elantra.

latham · February 2005

This morning the police called and we got the stolen car back (minus the stereo). It's funny, because the police had earlier said if we didn't get it back in 10 days, that we probably wouldn't, and if we did gget it back, that it would probably be stripped of parts. I guess we're the rare case where they find it weeks later, in fine driving shape. Now we have to decide what to do with 3 cars!

jchan2 · February 2005

Wow. You must be lucky. I guess you could go buy a new stereo.

ateixeira · February 2005

Wow!

Keep it as a beater?

We have 3 cars, the "extra" one comes in handy when we have guests. They don't have to rent.

You also don't accumulate too many miles on the new car (so it stays under warranty).

My Forester, purchased new, has 71k miles on it. But my 3rd car has handled about 25k miles during the same time period.

So if I didn't have my 3rd car, I'd be close to 100k and thinking about trading it in. This way I'll end up keeping it 2-3 years longer.

The only catch is you pay extra to insure them. To me it was worth it.

-juice

jasmith52 · February 2005

Well I have 3 cars. It doesn't cost that much anymore for insurance and registration (maybe $250 total a year) as I have the 3rd one listed as a "pleasure" vehicle.

But you'll still have some maintenance to do on the 3rd car as well as any extra depreciation.

The real challenge for me though is which car to keep out of the garage.

jchan2 · February 2005

At one point, I had three Hondas parked in my driveway. Two sat in the garage, and one was in the driveway. How I determined which one to put in the driveway would have been whichever car had more miles...

latham · February 2005

So, we've got the new Elantra, my '89 Corolla wagon with 147k, and the newly recovered '92 Accord with 199k. Right now we are thinking of keeping the third car around for occasional needs or lending. So long as insurance is reasonable.

ateixeira · February 2005

You might want to drop collision insurance on the lowest-value car, or the least-used. Keep only liability.

At this point it would not be a devastating loss if something were to happen (you already have a spare car), so why pay to insure it?

Besides, after a deductible, it may not be worth much even on a total claim. Top it off, any claim at all will raise your rates.

-juice

bdn · February 2005

Dont know what state your in , or where you are located, but I am looking for parts for a 95 beretta, perticulary the front end, hood, radiator, bumper, ect... If intersted please let me know and what state your from, might not even be worth it depending on where you live, thanks a bunch

nsiriann · March 2005

I was in an accident last week, and unfortunately the insurance companies totaled my car. Considering how old my car was (1990 Honda Accord) this came as no shock to me. The problem is, I wasn't planning on shopping for a car for at least 6 more months. I don't really know what I'm looking for, so this is where I'm asking for help. This is what I need:

- 4 door
- I prefer being close to the road (no trucks)
- Automatic
- Good gas milage
- Easy to maintain

Keeping in mind, I'm a new college grad that is just starting to pay on student loans, so expensive is definitely out of the question. I can afford about $300 US a month. The insurance company is still investigating the accident, so I haven't received any money from them. I have $2000 put away and still counting for a down payment. The things that I would like though:

- power windows
- power locks
- remote entry
- power moonroof
- ABS (I live in the northeast)

Any suggestions that anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated.

qbrozen · March 2005

IF you want something new, I think a Scion is a decent choice for cheap transportation. I'm not sure if a Mazda3 would keep you within your budget, you'd have to look into that.

If used it ok with you, that just opens up a whole slew of choices. you could easily step up to a very low mileage Mazda6.

I would say get another Accord, but I would only buy new. And I believe only the EX comes with a sunroof, which I think will push you out of your budget (although, if you qualify for the 2.9% financing, that may help).

Some folks might suggest a lease, but since you are fresh out of college, I suggest avoiding leasing since you never know where you might end up in the next few years (job hopping, location change, etc).

danf1 · March 2005

I'd recommend looking at a Hyundai Elantra. With the equipment that you desire the sticker price will be around $16,700. Invoice is about $15,700. There is a 1750 rebate plus 400 college grad rebate if you qualify. Using the college grad, if you buy at invoice minus rebates with 2000 down, your payment would be around 250/month.

asafonov · March 2005

...Hyundai Elantra. With the equipment that you desire the sticker price will be around $16,700. Invoice is about $15,700. There is a 1750 rebate plus 400 college grad rebate if you qualify.

13,500 for an Elantra (I am assuming it is a GT?) Worth 50% of that next year if you need to trade in?
A new Corolla seems to me a much better choice for not much more (but no roof.) Many, many choices used...

ateixeira · March 2005

My suggestion would be to attend a car show, to first narrow it down to about 3-4 choices that "fit".

See what you can get comfortable in quickly and easily, and has the size to meet your needs.

Then test drive just those few. Maybe even try a place like CarMax that sells several brands of used cars, so you can see how they hold up. Come to think of it you might be able to skip the car show if they have a good selection.

Once you make your choice, then you can figure out what you can afford, new or used, and start shopping.

Good luck.

-juice

danf1 · March 2005

Sure if you are going to trade in a year or two the Corolla will be worth more. On that note a Civic would be even better. If long term ownership is more important, I still recommend the Elantra.

Considering that low maintenance cost is one of the criteria here, I'm not a fan of used cars. Peace of mind in a warranty is worth a few bucks in my mind, plus I know how the car has been taken care of from the start.

qbrozen · March 2005

Considering that low maintenance cost is one of the criteria here, I'm not a fan of used cars.

That's a good point, BUT I have seen many "certified" used cars that come with a better warranty than from the factory. so that's something to consider.

stickguy · March 2005

You like hondas, get a new Civic EX (but, do they have ABS yet?).

For used, a Protege would work nicely. An ES2.0 could have all the equipment you require, for a reasonable price.

asafonov · March 2005

I agree that Civics have probably the best resale among compacts. A Civic, though, will cost more than 15k, though (LX) and close to 17k (EX).

My point was not just the resale - I don't have a problem with Hyundais at all, it is just for an extra $500-1000 a new Corolla CE (even though it may lack some of the equipment of an Elantra GT) is a much better deal, IMO.

kyfdx · March 2005

'03 Protege ES... You might find one with 2.5 years of warranty left...

Price around $11K... Figure $12K for tax and everything... nothing down... $277/mo. for 48 months at 5%.

Reliable, decent gas mileage.. good interior room for a sub-compact... 16" tires/wheels on the ES, and fun to drive...

Hmmm.. it makes me want one...

regards,
kyfdx

edit..Oh yeah.. most of them have moonroofs.. but, it was an option..

ateixeira · March 2005

Remember, he wants a moonroof. A-la-carte ordering might make it cheaper to get what he wants.

Unless aftermarket moonroof is OK.

-juice

nsiriann · March 2005

I'm definitely not opposed to a used car, but it will have to be low milage. My accord that was totaled was high milage and high maintenance (only after it broke 225K). The moonroof is something that I want, but can definitely live without. I'm definitely looking for long-term ownership. Thanks to everyone who has already responded, and I welcome more suggestions/opinions. This will be my first car that I'm buying and I could use all the help I could get.

cti · March 2005

would also be a Protege. My mother's Sienna minivan was buried after she hydroplaned and damaged it. Not much loss at 180k miles.

She found a Protege5 which was perfect. She LOVES to drive it. My mom has never really enjoyed driving before but loves driving on the twisties from Lousiana to Arkansas to go camping on her and my stepfather's property.

Plus she has come around to the usefulness of a sunroof in hot weather to vent heat out.

I was already looking at the Mazda3 hatch. After driving hers I saved up some money and 8 months later (i.e., last month) bought a new Mazda3 hatch.

I think the sedan is dull looking, but the hatch is really cool. Plus the hatch is vastly more useful.

Jason

millspd · March 2005

would have all of these

- power windows
- power locks
- remote entry
- power moonroof
- ABS (I live in the northeast)

and I'd guess you'd pay about $17K for one with automatic. a bit more if you wanted side air bags too.

kyfdx · March 2005

Great car... my #1 pick... But, tough staying under $300/mo., unless you lease...

I like used Civics, too... but, the prices are outrageous..

millspd · March 2005

good point about the monthly payment -- forgot that part. :-P

We bought a 2004 for my wife and she is very happy with it. I don't quite fit comfortably in it, but that's ok since I rarely drive it.

qbrozen · March 2005

actually, if $17K is the real OTD price (i haven't checked), then $300 a month should be easy with the $2K down that the poster has saved. Financing $15K over 60 mos. would fall right around that number (rule of thumb is $20/$1K financed over 5 years, right?). Obviously it depends on the purchaser's credit and achievable rate.

kyfdx · March 2005

True.. I wasn't taking into account a downpayment... I'm thinking $18K is closer to the out the door price..

When someone tells me they have $2K to put down on a car, I tend to want them to keep that money in the bank for other things... If you have $10K, different story..

I'd lease, if I were getting a new Civic, though.. Probably $220/mo. including tax.. with nothing down.

regards,
kyfdx

Kirstie_H · March 2005

I'll add a third shout to the Protege suggestion, especially if you plan to keep it for awhile. I found mine to be extremely reliable, and easy and relatively cheap to repair.

ateixeira · March 2005

P5s are nice, and should be very affordable used. Mazda also had a longer warranty, 4/50 IIRC, so a 2 year old Mazda will have twice the remaining warranty of a Civic, and it'll cost less.

-juice

jchan2 · March 2005

I guess you could try the Chevrolet Cobalt. It's safe (it passed the IIHS's side impact test a few days ago) and it seems to be reasonably priced. You could also try a Corolla, or a used Protege. The Elantra sounds good... You get a long warranty, a decent car and all the features you want.

If you're willing to go up a notch in size you could try a Ford Taurus.. Reliable and fairly inexpensive, although it is highly boring and finding one with a sunroof might be tough.

cti · March 2005

If I was interested in a compact sedan, I would have seriously considered a Cobalt (oddly not available IN cobalt blue).

I figured I should give GM a shot now that they finally have made a (apparently) high quality compact. The recent top scores in side crash test scores makes me hope even more that the Cobalt succeeds.

Of course, the Cobalt isn't available used - but (checking...) an LS with auto and side air bags as options has an MSRP of 16730.

The fact that it is even worth CONSIDERING alongside any other compact car is amazing and worthy of attention.

Jason

jchan2 · March 2005

I sat in one at the Nashville Auto Show a few weeks back and the fit and finish seemed to be pretty good for a GM car. Although today's review of the Cobalt in the Wall Street Journal said that it was an average sedan at best- not the best car but not necessarily the worst. I haven't driven a Cobalt yet and probably won't (I bought a new car recently) but it seems like a safe and dependable ride that has a price that isn't outrageously high. Not to mention its a GM car, which means GM may start piling on the incentives and make the Cobalt a real bargain...

jezebel · March 2005

So, after long years of waiting and wanting, and rarely even having *access* to a car, I'm FINALLY buying my very first car at the age of 23. Since I'm graduating from a professional graduate program at university, I will (cross my fingers) be starting a decently-paying job, and will likely buy into the glitz and glamour of purchasing a brand new car.

Problem is: walking into a new car dealer, I can't help but feel like I'll instantly be labelled "sucker". I look younger than I am, I'm shy, and I'm female. I don't have a boyfriend to bring with me, and my parents don't normally negotiate when they buy a car (and when I'm with them, I defer to them, and act even less assertively than I do alone).

As a first-time buyer, are there specific things I can do to let the salesperson know I'm not naive, and can't be suckered into paying more? Should I make initial contact with salespeople over email (or even phone, though my voice may give me away), so that they're less likely to prejudge me? Should I come armed with a printed copy of the dealer price, to show I've done my research (or will that just make me look "book smart" but naive to the real world?)?f

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

bolivar · March 2005

HOST are you there? You should be able to give directions to specifics here at Edmunds for new buyers!!!!!!

You're on the right site. Look around on the home page, there should be some link to buyers info.

There is information on Edmunds True Market Value (TMV) amounts.

Look at cars on Sundays, if the lots are closed, with no salemen around to 'attack' you. Pick something that interests you, write all the info including options down, then research the 'invoice' valve, TMV, etc here on Edmunds. You then should have at least basic information to start speaking with human salesmen at the dealer. (Most people who think they are 'assertive' feel they can bargin and get even a better 'deal' than EDmunds TMV amounts.)

Read the Consumer Reports 'Annual' digest. (Any public library will definitely have this book.)Look at the car sections. It's tables of cars 'problems' is very usefull. It has sections on "Best Cars" and "Worse Cars". For general, overall guidance, Consumers is good. (In general, you can't go wrong buying a Honda or Toyota for reliability!!! Now these dealers can 'take you to the cleaners' the same as the oilest lot in town.)

When you buy, just buy the car. Most of the 'add-ons' the Finance Manager will attempt to sell you are useless and very overpriced. Sealers, undercoating, VIN etching, etc are to be avoided. You appear to be single, don't buy any credit life or other type insurance. (If you die, let the mortgage company take the car, what will you care?) Pre-shop a credit union and bank for the loan, finding out the interest rate you can obtain on a loan. If the dealership can beat this rate, then consider them for the loan.

Read the papers you will be signing carefully. CArefully check the amounts on the documents, especially if they are providing the loan. They might just be some 'extras' added into the deal that you didn't agree to. Never be a 'monthly payment' shopper, or you may get a small monthly payment, but for 84 months, at a high interest rate.

If you have no credit, you might need parents to cosign a loan. If they are horrible at 'dealing' as you said, do not include them in this part of the purchase. Only bring them in when they need to sign finance papers.....

jezebel · March 2005

As wonderful as TMV sounds, it's pretty useless when dealing in the Canadian market, with Canadian prices that aren't a simple exchange rate relative to American prices.

jlawrence01 · March 2005

Since you are in Canada, I would highly recommend that you read Phil Edmonston's Lemonaid New Buyer's Guide for 2004. That will give you all the information that you need to have to make an informed buying decision. I reviewed the book this past week and found it to be an excellent book. Phil has been very active in Canada as a consumer advocate for the past 30 years. (I would also recommend the book to Americans; however, much of the pricing and consumer law is Canadian based).

The question that I would pose to you is do you really need a new vehicle. Sure, it means that your payment streams will be more regular as you will spend less in the early years of ownership on repairs. On the other hand, it can be very expensive for people starting out, especially if they are carrying significant amounts of university debt (more of a problem in the US).

Personally, I recommend purchasing a 2-3 year old used vehicle.

Generally, the people who do BEST in the car purchase process are those who do their homework upfront. If you read this board for very long, you will see dozens of messages that go like .."I bought a new 2004 Blahmobile and gosh, I really hate the car... how do I get out of a four year lease ..."

Good luck.

bolivar · March 2005

Canada? Where's that?

Is that north of Oklahoma City?

Didn't understand you were in Canada. You probably won't run into any snake-oil car salemen in that great country....

A read of Consumer Reports annual digest, the automobile section, would still be a good idea. And I would think your libraries would have a copy.

jchan2 · March 2005

If you don't mind a used car, try looking for a clean, low mileage 2-3 year old used car. Those will generally be the best value as they still have some warranty left and the first owner has taken a substansial wave of depreciation. If you really want, instead of buying an new car, you could try on a certified pre-owned entry-level luxury car. Acuras, Infinitis and Lexuses should be fairly reliable, although resale for a Lexus is outrageously high.

Remember to pre-arrange financing and make sure you don't buy unnecessary extras- disability insurance, rustproofing, protection packages, etc.

jezebel · March 2005

Yeah, of course I will consider used cars.. and certainly I have more research to do, so I can't say for sure what will happen..

But at this point, I'm definitely attracted to a newer car. One major reason is that I tend to have strong devotion to certain cars. In high school, I was in love with the last model Civic, but the new one does nothing for me. If I bought an older Civic, I'd have to get a 2000 or earlier model, and even then, that car has been going downhill since its 1997 model. Between 2000 and 2004, there was a lull with no real car that did everything for me - some were attractive, but didn't have the quality to necessarily back it up. Finally, Mazda brought out their new 3, and this is exactly what I would buy if my finances were right. There's a possibility I could find a one-year-old car for sale, but in Canada, where these cars are really popular, that's highly unlikely. Besides that, I probably wouldn't buy a used Mazda 3, because then I'd be stuck with a car from the first production year - which is probably going to cost more in the long run (eg, the malfunctioning airconditioner is already a major problem).

I don't want a luxury car (the increase in insurance - which is VERY expensive in Canada - and gas would more than make up for the savings of buying a used car). I don't know anyone who can really help me deal with the shady used car market.

And most importantly, I'm primarily interested in import cars (Mazda almost certainly, but I would look at Toyota, Hyundai - or even Honda to use mostly as a bargaining chip with dealers), and the depreciation on these cars is very minimal in the first few years. Especially in the Canadian market, where small cars like Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, and Mazda 3 are very popular on the resale market.. a year-old Japanese car will likely go for close to base MSRP for a new car - you only save the air tax, freight, PDI etc...

So maybe this is pretty particular to the market, but as practical as a used car may seem, I can't convince myself it's actually worth any of the trouble.. Especially since I would want to get a cellphone in case of a breakdown, which is an added expense since I otherwise don't need one, but would be regularly traveling on a highway through unpopulated areas every time I go home to visit my parents. So in the long run, the savings aren't nearly as much as one might find in, say, buying a 2 year old Impala or Lexus.

jlawrence01 · March 2005

I have been looking at a number of 2003 Impalas coming off-lease with 50-60k miles for about US$6-7k from a couple of leasing companies. That undicates to me that they could be had for roughly US $8-9k retail which represents significant difference from the new price. And I like the 28-32mpg that we are getting on average.

You are going to need a cell phone in any vehicle if you are going to do any significant travel through unpopulated areas. New cars break down occasionally while they are under warranty. I have a fleet of about 15 cars in the fleet that I manage, most under warranty, and we have several breakdowns each year where we take them into dealerships. Besides, you might run out of gas, hot a patch of ice, or strike a deer on the 401. Been there, done that. In fact, I just missed hitting a bear outside of Eganville, ON last summer.

Dealing with the shady used car dealers? Look on the APA website (www.apa.ca) where they look at some of the Canadian NEW car dealers and you may be surprised that you will find some pretty dubious practices.

My approach in dealing with any car salesman is "Trust but verify." If I am going to buy ANY used car, I send it to my mechanic and have him look at the car. I want him to look for any potential problems. I also want him to make me a list of repairs that I will need to make to bring the car into spec. For example, if he finds transmission issues, I won't buy the car. If he sees that the tires are in bad shape, I will reduce the price that I am willing to pay for the vehicle.

I do not buy new cars for my personal use as my cost per mile would be much higher. I would have to pay 1) higher sales taxes, 2) higher insurance rates, and a 3) a much higher acquisition cost. We pay cash for vehicles so financing is not an issue. Our concern with buying new is that we like to put our personal capital into appreciating assets (think RRSPs) rather than assets that lose value pretty quickly. Over 20 years, our cost per mile has been well under US$0.25, well under the costs of a new vehicle.

Kirstie_H · March 2005

Host is here, just not 24/7.

ateixeira · March 2005

Consider a no-haggle dealer. They're perfect for someone that might feel inexperienced or intimidated by profession salespeople who do this every single day.

More importantly I've had a pleasant experience with these and focused on picking the right car instead of the right price.

Strongly recommended. Fitzmall.com in the DC area has several brands, FWIW.

-juice

jchan2 · March 2005

If you're very worried about being ripped off you could try a few "no-haggle" dealerships. I know CarMax runs a new car chain in Kenosha, Wisconsin, about 45 minutes north of Chicago. My friend bought a Sienna LE AWD there under their "no-haggle" pricing policy or something like that.

If you don't mind driving a so-so car, you might want to try Saturn. Being a GM brand, it'll carry the typical boatload of incentives that GM likes to toss on its so-so cars. But the upside of Saturn is that their dealerships are friendly and courteous, almost like Lexus dealers. You won't get ripped off but what you gain in service you trade off in the actual product. The ION is so-so and the VUE, according to CR, is unreliable.

isellhondas · March 2005

ALL car dealerships can be "no haggle". Just pay the asking price!

Nothing special with these stores.

Seriously, all of the information needed to avoid getting "ripped off" can be found right here in these forums.

jchan2 · March 2005

Who on the face of this planet would pay sticker price for cars like the Ford Taurus, Chevrolet Suburban, Chevrolet Impala, Chevrolet Cavalier, Dodge Neon and Dodge Stratus?

jlawrence01 · March 2005

Why would you pay sticker on **ANY** car? If a dealer won't come off of sticker, move on to another dealer or model.

Selecting and Buying My First Car

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