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Comments
That is fine for the automobile savvy person. When I started adding up the service charges my wife has paid to Lexus in the last 15 years, I was appalled. Most people trust the dealership to be fair and honest. They don't expect they will add a lot of unneeded services or overpriced repairs when they bring their vehicle in for routine maintenance. It was an eye opener for me.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050228/lam053_1.html
I keep checking the official press release site, but nothing so far ...
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display.html?kw=RX400h
http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm?Vehicle=2006_Lexus_RX 400h
I cannot imagine anyone buying an SUV that did not plan to go off road at least occasionally. I realize most don't. The RX400h cannot without risking damage to the electric motors. That boggles my mind.
PS
The review was done in September 2004. I was there and saw them cruising the island...
Welcome to the silly world of "SUV" drivers.
The last stats I saw printed were that 80% of SUV owners never go "off road" other than a little mud or minor snow in the course of normal driving.
The 400h is certainly capable of that.....
And I have no trouble believing it. Here in the Houston area, SUVs are incredibly common. For what? It never snows, and the landscape is flatter than the last 4 years of the Dow.
Most people drive them for (perceived) status (relative to a minivan) and/or because options for big station wagons are very limited.
I do not think the writer misunderstood anything. He very clearly states: "The RX 400h enjoys a 67-percent edge in fuel efficiency over the RX 330 in the EPA's City cycle, earning 30/26 mpg City/Highway."
Cheers from Luxembourg,
Birger
"EPA certification of fuel economy ratings has now been confirmed. The RX 400h's EPA-estimated combined fuel economy rating of 29 mpg is better than the average for compact sedans and is an improvement over the previously reported number. Also better than earlier reports, highway fuel economy is EPA-estimated at 27 mpg, an improvement of 67 percent over the RX 330 -- already one of the best in its class. Finally, at 31 mpg, the city rating for the 400h exceeds most V8-equipped luxury SUVs by more than 100 percent."
It comes from this article:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050228/lam053_1.html
Cheers from snowy Michigan
The last stats I saw printed were that 80% of SUV owners never go "off road" other than a little mud or minor snow in the course of normal driving.
The 400h is certainly capable of that....."
Well, I use my CR-V for light off roading, going to national monuments (Chaco Canyon in NM comes to mind). I wouldn't want a vehicle that couldn't handle muddy washboard roads; I used every inch of my ground clearance the last trip, plus fording several inches of water, and the rear wheels were engaging constantly.
So I agree that a little minor "offroad fun" is indeed FUN.
But a $45K SUV offroading for fun? Seems kinda wasteful to me.
If you need that off road capability, buy a cheaper 4wd SUV for that and use the Lexus as your "family car."
Paying $45k-$55k for an SUV that isn't really an SUV is what seems like a waste. For those that think Toyota is a smart automaker. This RX400h is not a smart move. For the 20% that do go out in the back country with their new toy and burn up the hybrid system, Lexus will have to foot the bill. For me it may be worth it just to get even for all the times they over charged us on the LS400. I think I would buy the Highlander, it is better looking.
All those Porsche Cayenne Turbo buyers must be feeling pretty bad about now then.
On the contrary. The Cayenne and sister Touareg are very fine off road vehicles. The Touareg just took two of the first 5 places in the Dakar 5k+ mile race across the Sahara. They are in a much higher league than the RX wannabe SUVs.
B. OFF-ROAD
C. SPORT OFF-ROAD.
The RX series is just fine for A&B.
Sorry about that - I got the sources mixed up.
Cheers from also snowy (but not as much as Michigan, I'm sure) Luxembourg
Birger
Overall impression : very positive!
In my opinion however the Toyota engineers designed the drive control with focus on power, accelleration, sportive behavoir more than fuel efficiency.
It seems they want to excite / impress / convince the press with the sportive characteristics.
I think their main marketing approach is to demonstrate a power Hybrid.
Consequence : The accelleration is better than that of a 10cyl Touareg, the subjective feeling of the torque provided by the electric motors from zero is difficult to describe in words!
It seems that sound design - imitation of the behavior (sound and rpm) of a conventional engine only driven car causes compromises on fuel efficiency!
My personal impression was that is is more difficult than i expected to drive really fuel efficient, but it is possible!
Other testdrivers confirmed that 45M/G can be achieved even under difficult conditions (stop and go, cities etc) .
I wished Toyota would implement a switch / choice for Sport/power and E for lowest possible fuel consumption.
In Germany a laser distance cruise control is definitely not available.
Greetings from Germany
i ordered the 400h in luxury version (incl sound system, metallic paint and roof window) .
We have to pay here in Germany 60.000 Euro = 78.000 US$
Creating an SUV with nearly TWICE the Cargo area (seat up), twice the efficiency, twice the quality, serious advantages in resale and luxury features over rigs like Tourage, Cayenne S, X5, and FX, while offering similar speed is a Great Move!
And my special #2, the Lexus LS has NEVER been overpriced. It's STILL underpriced by $10-15K! You were joking, right?
DrFill
I did not say the LS400 was over priced. I said the service and repairs were over priced. $18k to date on our 1990 LS400. The last straw was when they gave us an estimate to fix all the little nagging problems like gas gauge $1200 etc, for a total estimate of $5,900. I found an independent Lexus shop and had all the work done for $1,100 dollars including parts and labor. The LS400 is a fine vehicle, I am not impressed with the dealers. My wife traded a Mercedes for it and has liked the car after getting the initial handling bugs worked out. Still gets 19/27 mpg so they have not improved that aspect on the new LS.
We have to pay here in Germany 60.000 Euro = 78.000 US$
How much of that price is tax? If Lexus can get that kind of money in Europe they may not bring many to the States.
Nope, the electric motors simply stop working until they cool down, leaving the vehicle without power to the rear wheels. I don't think it can be damaged.
How about all the electronics, SCRs that get overloaded in the process of trying to get out of a mud hole? I think if all this is true that Lexus will need a disclaimer in their warranty. It still does not make any sense to build a vehicle with high clearance and AWD that cannot go through a creek or mud hole or out in the loose sand.
Lexus has not said this at all. They have said "offroading is discouraged." Any vehicle that can clear the water can go "through a creek or a mud hole." I had a 1974 Dodge Colt 2WD that had a high ground clearance and we called it "The Tank" because it could go basically anywhere I tried to drive it.
Lexus knows the stats of how many owners of RX300s take them offroad. They are not stupid, but are the "most profitable" company in their peer group.
Lots of AWD "crossover" or smaller SUVs (which are not built for offroading) can have problems in sand ( I have owned and AWD CR-V which was not great in sand and have seen other small CUVs stuck in sand ) which is nothing related to hybrid technology at all.
I'm following you there. I got stuck the first day I bought my new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That happens. I did not hurt it only got stuck. We are talking about a $50k-$60k AWD vehicle that has some serious limitations. I just don't get it. They are building military hybrids that I am sure don't burn up if you try to go through a stretch of muddy road. I kind of had hopes for the Highlander Hybrid. Looks like that one is off the list also...
The fact that it can not go off-roading means nothing!
Culliganman (Prius off-road?...Nah!!)
There is also the small matter that this thing nearly doubles the fuel efficiency of comparable AWD V8 luxury sport SUV's, there has to be some compromise.
Remember when all family cars were station wagons? Huge, rear wheel drive sleds on skinny, bias ply tires? People still went camping. The 400h is far superior to those, even though it is no Land Cruiser.
AWD does not mean off road, if you like to off road, do not buy a 400h, or any AWD pseudo SUV or car, buy a Toyota land cruiser or a Land Rover disco. Vehicle makers are discovering the benefits of AWD for on road driving. Even the Ford Taurus replacement will be offered with AWD.
If you don't like it, find something better!
Fat chance.
DrFill
Hopefully they have gotten the Noise, brakes & transmission issues resolved from the earlier RX300/RX330 models. If I wanted an SUV I would not buy a Lexus. If I wanted all the niceties you mentioned I might buy an LS430. Probably would buy the E320 CDI, use biodiesel and really contribute to the efforts that the Hybrids are supposed to address and are missing.
Your report really intrigues me. You state that "other test drivers confirmed that 45 mpg can be achieved even under difficult conditions (stop and go, cities, etc.)". This has been my thinking all along. i.e. If a driver is careful & does not "floor" the accelerator in city driving, then the gas mileage will be very surprisingly good. Am I correct in my thinking?
By the way, after talking to my dealer earlier this week, about the availability of the laser cruise control option for the RX400h, they told me that it is NOT available for the RX400h in spite of what New Car Test Drive reported on their review. To me this is a major mistake by Lexus. Once one has driven a vehicle with this option, one never wants to do without it. I have again encouraged my dealer to strongly enforce upon Lexus that they should reconsider this & include it as an option. The dealer promised me that they would do so at a conference coming up in a couple weeks.
The electronics will not overheat. Let me restate what I said before: The temperature sensors will note that the electric motors are getting too hot and will shut down the motors. End of story. The whole point is to shut them down before they fail.
However, this is cold comfort to the person stuck in muddy off road conditions without traction to all wheels (until everything cools off).
Then why do you lurk on this board? Let's see, the RX is sort of a SUV and it's a Lexus. And you don't want a SUV that is a Lexus. huh.
Same reason you do, Curiosity. Actually I was intrigued with the whole hybrid concept until all the truth started surfacing. I've test driven them, have you? I even followed an RX400h in Hawaii last September to get a closer look. No one on the Big Island would want one, too many bad roads. I spend more time on dirty, muddy roads looking at property than I do on pavement. No wannabe SUV/CUV would survive..
What was the big conspiracy? That it's rear motors will shut off if they overheat?? Wow! Lexus really lied to you!
"I spend more time on dirty, muddy roads looking at property than I do on pavement."
Well, does everyone spend more time on dirty, muddy roads? Not quite. As I said before 99% of RX owners probably spend 100% of their time on pavement. ANd if you have seen overall stats, something like 80% of total SUV buyers never go off-road and something like 95% of luxury SUV buyers never go off-road.
And since you have known now for quite some time that it can't fit your lifestyle, isn't it time you got over the RX400h's limitations(that is limitations to you) and moved on? You even said you don't like the RX to begin with(exterior style), so why even bother with it?
"No wannabe SUV/CUV would survive.. "
The RX has been a wannabe SUV for the last 7 years. Did you need to drive the RX400h to figure that out? The RX was originally and is still designed for the way 99% of luxury SUV buyers actually drive their vehicles. That is why it is soo successful.
I assume you missed my earlier posts. I was watching the RX400h after I found that the Highlander was basically the same frame with more room and much nicer looks. Now the the RX400h has turned into a disappointment that also means the Hybrid Highlander will suffer the same lack of ability. I will have to keep looking, my Suburban only has another 10-15 years of usable life left in it.
PS
I find your 99% of high end SUV owners never going off the pavement as totally ludicrous.
Your report really intrigues me. You state that "other test drivers confirmed that 45 mpg can be achieved even under difficult conditions (stop and go, cities, etc.)". This has been my thinking all along. i.e. If a driver is careful & does not "floor" the accelerator in city driving, then the gas mileage will be very surprisingly good. Am I correct in my thinking?
Not even close. Achieving a 50% increase above EPA estimates no matter city/highway is not an easy task and in an HSD equipped Hybrid, it will be even tougher. Anyone can drive a game gauged equipped automobile and peg the Instantaneous for a block, two, a mile, down a hill, etc. but for an entire tank or a lifetime? You are asking for a best tank from a hypermiler under very specific and advantageous conditions and setup. The average driver will never even come close.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
The "time" was last January.
By you measure ejection seats are totally useless in fighter jets because they almost NEVER get used.