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It is the big oil companies in this country that drag their feet in selling the low sulfur diesel fuel that they are selling in Europe. EPA should has turned the screw on this industry as they did on Auto industry to clean up the emission problem. What do you expect when the oil men running the country?
jt
jt
The EPA issued a regulation some time ago that new, lower limits (a 90% reduction) to diesel engine emissions will go into effect on January 1, 2007. To that end, the low sulfur diesel fuel required to meet the regs is to be available nation-wide by October this year. Trucking companies are hard at work now replacing equipment that won't meet the regs. That also means that the "clean" diesel fuel will soon be available to the passenger vehicles that need them.
Link to EPA rules
What are your favorite small diesels? What engine did you like?
....81 Rab Diesel/85 Quan TD (both new)...
...purchased at 69k, a used 82 Rab PU still lurques in my garage.........
Little dude logged 55 MPG enroute the Oregon coast a while back.
(at an admittently sedate 55MPH) I got no problema with the 1.6l NA diesel mated w/ the 5-speed (has a clutch too) in that little trucklet.
Fred F.
And I believed it then! Not anymore.....If you want something better than just a gasoline engine then go to the hybrid.....That's the wave of the future (and they contain gasoline engines!)
Yeah, GM cobbled together a diesel in the 80's and they were junk. It was basically a converted 350 cu.in. gas V-8 that, in typical GM fashion, was thrown together to let them be able to say "we have a diesel" when they were popular. Don't even think of equating it to a modern direct injection turbo diesel. 3. Hybrid technology is OK but there still are unanswered questions about it too.
A)how long will that expensive battery pack last?
B)how much will it cost to replace...$3000 or $4000?
C) how will unknown battery pack life affect trade in values.
D) for those buying a used Prius/Civic/Escape/Accord hybrid...gee how long will the battery in my "new" used car last before I have to spend $$$? see "B" above
E) people are still complaining about lower than expected fuel economy
G) how about all that complicated, computer driven, drive mode switching. From all electric to all gas to varying degrees of combinations of both. How about all the electromechanical devices required to do all that?
H) how about battery pack leakage in a rear ender? and what about battery disposal fees? You certainly don't think the dealer is going to pay for that do you?
I) payback on a hybrid. This is the time involved in recouping the premium price of the original purchase by virtue of its better gas mileage is a really long time even if gas prices go up and up. Most owners who drive average miles per year probably won't do it in less than 5 years or after most will probably trade...see A,B,C above.
So, diesel is simple and effective and probably cheaper to maintain in the long run...and they do run long!
FYI,
Consumer Reports just did an analysis of hybrid operating costs and the results were not pretty. Here is an excerpt:
In our analysis, only two of the six hybrids we have tested recovered their price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership (see Hybrids vs. all gas). The Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid provide a savings of about $400 and $300, respectively, over that period. But that is only if buyers are able to take advantage of limited federal tax credits. Extra ownership costs over five years for the other four models ranged from about $1,900 to $5,500, compared with those of similar all-gas models.
Their take on it is that most hybrids are at best a wash and more than likely more expensive to operate than their gas counterparts unless:
1. You hold on to them for at least 5-7 years+
2. You drive more than the average 12-15,000 miles per year
3. You practice proper hybrid driving techniques
4. You can take maximum advantage of any and all available tax incentives.
All in all, a tough road to travel to get possibly minimal gas savings. Hybrids may be a good choice for some, but for most a properly sized, well-maintained, gas or diesel powered vehicle is probably the better choice.
In October 2005 I wrote in this forum about my Tucson LX V6 describing that the car was slowly moving to the right when the steering wheel was left unattended. When this event happened also the steering wheel moved a little bit to the right without my intervention. The car still has this problem.
Now I am in Peru with my Tucson and I have visited Machupicho (Cusco) and many original places in this country with such difficult geography. Although the main roads in Peru are paved other ones (those that take one to the most beautiful scenery) are not. These roads, I will say, cannot be classified as roads. Big lorries and trunks are the usual users of these roads (mines and minerals transport) although the occasional big buses and small cars also adventure through these roads. Generally these roads are not maintained, they are full of potholes, mud, rocks and many times washed away by streams of water that have escaped from their original path.
I bought this car in November 2004 in California. I travelled from the Pacific to the Atlantic and from the Atlantic to the Pacific again in order to travel to Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Panama. In Panama I shipped the car to Guayaquil (Ecuador) and from there I drove to Peru. In total more than 25K miles. Presently the car has 30K miles and the car has been thoroughly serviced according to schedule.
I will say, in general, that I am OK with the performance of the car but some observations (or limitations need to be addressed). First of all, the clearance of the car, i.e. 195 mm (7.7”), is by far too small for the Peruvian off road adventures. When the car arrived to Peru the under frame was immaculate (almost new). The under seal protective cover was visible with its natural colour. Now is covered in mud that cannot be taken away by any means. The mud has been baked onto the exhaust pipe and catalytic converter and pieces of stones have indented the petrol tank in two large places and I wonder how the petrol level indicator in the console is still working.
Secondly, the engine protective plastic undercover does not cover or prevent the mud to splash all over the engine compartment. Now the mud has dried and has covered practically all-visible wire connection including sensors and components in the engine compartment.
Thirdly, I was obliged to change the original tyres BF Goodrich at 20K miles in Peru even before going to Machupicho because there was only 2 mm of thread left. If I had been in the USA I could have easily asked for new tyres based on the tyre warranty of 70K miles duration. I think this happened because of the everyday driving without rest from the USA to Panama sometimes in very hot weather. The weather has been so hot that part of the rubber (and plastic) on the front door seals has discoloured due to partial melting.
Fourthly, the plastic interior of the car is hard and scratches very easily, either by a pen or under pressure of things in the car. For example, the boot compartment has many scratches produced by things (e.g. camping materials) pressure or rubbing against the walls of this part of the car.
Fifthly, after two hours continuous driving I could feel the heat of the engine compartment filtrating into the driving area and I needed the A/C on to cool this area. It appears that there is not sufficient insulation between the engine compartment and the driving area. This needs to be improved.
Sixthly, in a few situations when the A/C switch is turned to ON smoke comes through the central vents. I originally though that this smoke was because something was burning in the A/C system. However this smoke appears to be dust. Playing a bit with the fan power control and setting seems to resolve the situation.
The good thing about the car is that in spite of the hard work it has undergone I was not aware of any noticeable rattles. I have also noted a bit of tremor when the car is on an unpaved road. Definitely I will say the car is not a serious off road car. In paved roads the car is smooth but once you take the car on unpaved roads (even though these are established unpaved roads as the manual makes clear) you feel any little rock on the road. I think the car is only suitable for unpaved roads, which are gravel and relatively smooth. The car needs more under frame protection, especially the petrol tank area. Equally it needs better plastic undercover frame design for the engine to prevent muddy water from splashing onto the engine compartment. It also needs more clearance (perhaps 3 inches more). The petrol consumption is as it is advertised. By the way, this car in Peru costs US$32,000.
B
tidester, host
Hope this will help.
B
Dan
HFX NS
Just want to know because it means there is something wrong with my car. Do you have the V6 or the 4 cylinder engine?
Thanks for the help.
Cheers,
Dan
HFX NS
Yes. Right at 22 miles to the gallon in mixed driving. We get that by following the speed limit and using the cruise control whenever possible. Also, we only warm up the car for about 30 seconds or so before starting off. We also try to anticipate stoplights by slowing down as soon as we see the red. Too many people around here keep BOTH feet on the gas and try to stop 20 feet before the light.
We have a 2005 Tucson GLS V6 4WD.
Hope this helps.
Bob D.
2 reprograms, one new ECM engine module and now at
22liters /100km !!! about 13.5 miles per gallon :mad:
this winter was 25-27liters for 100km !!!! :lemon:
I am going back to dealer next week :mad: :mad: :mad:
how can some cars like Tucson run 20 miles+ / gallon and they can't fix this copy cat Sportage with same engine and trany ???
If your car is doing less, then there is a fundamental problem with the car. Dealers can make a performance test in your car a give to you a written report of the test.
I have a lexus SC300, it is also 4-automatic like my Tucson, the Lexus uphill does a little of noise when the gear is changed but there is not a little jump that happens when the Tucson is going uphill or overtaking. Before I bought the car I read reviews of this car and everybody pointed to this 'problem' the change of gear hesitation of the Tucson. I said I have disminished this problem a lot by simple changing the PCV valve.
Remenber the Tucson was a brand new car designed by the Koreans and may take another 6 years to put right many of the 'problems'. My car at the beginning water (or steam) was entered into the front lights, the 4WD on manual was making horrible noises when reversing, the hand brake was loosed and crap grip (there was a technical bulletin to all hyundai dealers to address this problem). All of these 'problems' were corrected under the warranty. The dealer even want to order new cambers to address the problem of the tendency of the car to move to the right lightly when the steering wheel was left unattended. I didn't have time to do this because I was going to Mexico.
Look at the Tourage (VW); this car is full of serious electronic problems and even there is a "Lemon" web page to address the claims of the owners. This car costs more than $15,000 than the Hyundai. In summary I think for the price I paid for this car I am able to cop with these minors 'problems'
Now I am waiting for the next Santa Fe (new). This car has been in the market for more than 5 years and the 'problems' I am sure have been adressed in order to eliminated them in this new edition of the Hyundai.
To buy a new car is as having a baby. You will not leave full responsibility to the dealer to look after your baby, because the dealer will not do that. You need to buy the Tucson shop books and read the Hyundai bolletins in its web page. Performance can be traced to perhaps 3 to 4 causes for a bad consume of gas, and dealers know that. Take your car to another dealer and get aquaintence with the language they talk by getting informed yourself of possibles causes.
I hope this help.
L
thanks
Honda put its engine (4-cyl)to the maximum revolutions (almost all its car do this). This is fine if you think to have the car for less than 3-4. The 4 cyl engine will be naked after that high rev. A car with 6 cyl is smooth because of the engine not because the suspension bushes or improved suspension. Look the Type-R has more suspension bushes that any car in the market. So Honda gives you a sense in the few first years of performance and high technology.
Equally the Honda does not provide with flat seats when needed. Many times I have slept in the car with my wife comfortable (Grand Canon, Death Valley) a temperatures below 5 degree. At the end of this 30K miles I was more than satisfied with the car in spite of all that hard drive that the car has to put at.
I said the car need more protection under the chassis and the clearance is not enough. Big stone and small rocks may puncture the petrol tank. My car has leather front seats with heat at will.
Unfortunately, there are 2 types of owners. The owner that help the Dealer to pay his swimming pool at home and his fantastic holidays because the owner trust on him, and the owner that know about the car by making an effort to understand the basics of the car. The latest owner is disliked by Dealers.
B
what is it ? where is it any other info available ??
lowest resale value of any make out there, its terrible and there is a reason for that, plan to own the vehicle 5+ years to have it return to reasonable. Do some research in consumer reports, its the best thing out there in unbiased reports, anyone who says differently are in that blind brand loyalty category or use the lame excuse that CR only likes foreign cars. Smart people can see through that. If you take the blind brand loyalty out of some of the opinions here, and go look at the Honda and Toyota again, I bet you'll find that the couple extra grand went into the quality of the vehicle and not just the name. A couple grand that I bet you'll be very glad you paid.
Who says the dealer can't or won't fix problems? You? or a handfull of disgruntled persons who post on these sites? For every 10 who complain here there are thousands who get things fixed promptly, correctly, AND under warranty if it applies.
They use the cheapest OEM tires?? worse than the Firestones Ford used on the Exploders oops Explorers, you know, the ones that blew out causing roll-overs?? Michelin is used on many or most of the line up and if you can name another manufacturer aside from some premium brand car maker that uses these across the range of models well, go ahead name them. Oh yeah, if you get a flat in your Ford..GM..Honda...Toyota..Chrysler...BMW...Subaru..etc. etc. ad nauseum, and open the glovebox you will find a small warranty brochure from the tire manufacturer who provides their own warranty for the tires...if you do not understand, simply put...Hyundai does NOT warranty the tires, nobody in the auto manufacturing industry does.
Obviously you do not like research because if you did any you would hardly be able to miss all the awards, not lightly given, to various Hyundai models for, WHAT? quality, value,consumer best buys, check rated models from WHO? Consumers Reports, and various other consumer magazines, Automobile clubs, JD Powers (where Hyundai is in the top 3, I believe and tied with WHO? Honda) and assorted other car oriented magazines. Simply put, in spite of what you would like to believe and have others believe, Hyundai has quickly overtaken all domestic manufacturers and is hot on Honda/Toyota's heels. With the increasing public perception that Hyundai is indeed a quality car comes increasing resale value. As it stands now resale value has surpassed many domestic models, again model for model
Oh, I took your advice (and Consumers Reports) and bought a 2006 Civic in November I liked the body style better than the 5 year old design of the current Elantra and the rental car blandness of the Corolla..I also paid $19,600 and I am here to tell you that for the same money I could (and should) have bought a nice top line Sonata which has far more standard equipment, much greater interior and trunk room. More car for the money in all measures. Sure the Civic gets good fuel economy and sure that is important but I am NOT "very glad that I paid the couple extra grand" for this supposed automobile ICON. If you think it has been perfect you are wrong
If you look closely at that CR "reliability" rating, you would surely question how they arrived at their rating. If you look at each and every reported metric that supposedly goes into their reliability rating, each individual rating is no worse than average and most are above average to excellent! So how do you go from those scores to below average? :confuse:
A number of e-mails and letters from Tucson owners (from a few other forums I visit) to CR have still gone unanswered! And I must tell you that I am the proud owner of an extremely trouble-free, reliable 2005 Tucson LX 2.7L V6 AWD and I get the same gas mileage you get with your 2.0L I4. Maybe you should have popped for the V6?
link
Looking at the Consumer Review link at the top of this discussion, the '05 Tucson is pulling a 9.2 score from owners. You have to drill "up" to get '06 numbers, but they are currently at 9.2 also.
Steve, Host
I had a Honda Civic Coupe before for 3 years and after 6 months a rattle noise appeared and 2 spot corrosion were noticeable in one of the doors. The rattle was never eliminated and the spots were re painted by the dealer (car was under warranty).
It is OK to say that the internal finishes of the Civic were, I will say better quality that my Tucson, that needs to be improved.
I bought this Tucson to give it a hard work, why should I need a fantastic interior if I going to enter the car with shoes full of mud. When I am in the country side I need a responsive engine and the Tucson is good in this.
I was not prepared to give away another 2K dollars just because the internal plastic was better. This car solve all my needs and before I bought it I did my research.
If your dealer doesn't want to do the job you want, you still can ask to talk with the big boss (manager). Hyundai is interested to show its customers that the they care for new Hyundai owners. I don't understand why you could not have the type of service I got from Hyundai dealers in California, and Boston, Mas.
I look after my Tucson carefully, but I will wish that the under frame were more protected and the floor clearance increased, and the external paint is pealing in some places. I love my Tucson and it is very bad you have had problems with your Tucson. Fortunately, you could use your Tucson as part exchange and buy a CR-V Honda. I can just say that you have had a very bad luck and wish the best in your next purchase.
B
Interesting...check this out: link title
Looks like the Accent is the only Hyundai in that list, and it's not even close to #1!
Also, directly from Edmunds, Yay! : link title
Guess what? No Hyundai's there!! Yay!
I backed up my points with factual information!
Sorry about your bad experience. My '05 Elantra is trouble free and doing great. I'm also considering buying a new Tucson or Sonata.
:confuse: :confuse:
I am not sure how I attacked you. All I did was provide my own personal experiences (like you), question how CR's rating could show all average to above average to excellent individual ratings and then come up with a below average reliability rating (the whole is less than the sum of the parts?), and point out that the positive experiences, ratings, and reviews of the Tucson far outweigh the negatives. All the info I mentioned can be verified or read in print or on other websites.
I have no doubt that you have some problems with your Tucson. It can happen to anyone and any make or model, even Honda and Toyota. If you can't get your dealer to address your problems, try another dealership. If that fails, you have a few other choices: Accept it and live with it, or trade it in for a Honyota. Just some common sense advice and plain facts from me, no specious arguments or tirades. If my prior posts offended you, please let me apologize.
Comparison Test: Hyundai Sonata Takes on the Accord and Camry (the Sonata won.)
For Edmunds 8.0 take on the Tucson, see the Editors' Rating. And here's the Reviews & Specs page. Finally, here's the Road Test from last year on an '05.
The slush fund scandal isn't helping their stock prices though. (Market-Day).
Ok, I'm over my daily links quota now. :shades:
Steve, Host
Whenever I sit in the back seat, I can hear road noise at a distinctly higher volume than in the front seat. I'm thinking of adding some soundproofing material to the cargo area. Has anyone tried this? Does anyone have a recommendation about what type or where to purchase? I'd appreciate it as there is a long trip coming up with the car.
Thanks,
Bob