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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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Comments

  • haironghairong Member Posts: 153
    i dont think there will be a defined line where quality is improved. its a gradual thing. i would recommend grabbing a late-production '04 and taking the incentives.

    Definitely DO NOT buy Titans that were built in or before May, '04, if you are concerned about initial qualities. Nissan sent in the "S.W.A.T." team in May.

    Ghosn is fixing the Canton debacle in his characteristic fashion -- that is, with the subtlety of a chain saw. In May, he flew in 220 engineers from Japan and Nissan's older Smyrna (Tenn.) plant. The damage-control team searched every inch of the assembly line for flaws. Some were obvious: Factory hands, many of them newcomers to carmaking, wore rings and studded jeans that scratched freshly painted trucks. Other glitches were maddening: Power window switches and reading lights on the Quest often seemed possessed by gremlins, and its sliding doors didn't close quite right. So the team worked with suppliers to reengineer parts, while robots were reprogrammed to weld car bodies more tightly, and better insulation was added to the roof of the Armada. Then Ghosn shook up management, even raiding archrival Toyota to hire troubleshooter Douglas G. Betts as his new vice-president for assembly quality. As the 2005 Nissans enter dealerships this fall, buyers will learn firsthand whether Ghosn's personal intervention has paid off.


    I would wait for '05 models if I were you.

    Read the whole article here:

    http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_40/b3902012.htm
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    That was a pretty interesting article. This guy Ghosn's seems to be making plans to improve the vehicles. The 2005 models should be here in another 3 to 5 weeks. Ford rebates look mighty tempting to me. I do want a Titan. I risk losing out on the rebate by waiting for the 05. The latest 04 could be just fine. I could end up spending extra money on 05s for no real reason.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    even if this promo does hit the dealer floor, it usually works out in the dealer's favor in exchange for dealer discount. I don't think you're going to get $10k off MRSP and the free loan for 72 months.

    I'm guessing most people will not do the math to see what the savings would be for 72 months of no interest on $20 - $30k. you can be sure the dealer knows what the trade off is and will be eager to give you a zero point loan in exchange for a dealer discount.

    If you can get the 0% loan on top of all the discounts then more power to you.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    the 0% loans have nothing to do with dealer discounts. they do, however, wipe out all MANUFACTURER rebates and cash.

    it still works out better to take the rate in all cases except the freestar and explorer.
  • blakecamblakecam Member Posts: 3
    The way I figure, it is better to take the $3000 rebate + $ 1500 bonus cash for an F-150. If you take the FMCC financing for 3 months (to get the $1500 bonus cash), then refinance at 5% for 60 months, you will end up paying about $3500 in interest. That puts you $1000 ahead. The advantage with 0% is spreading the loan over a longer period with lower payments. In any case, it's all a marketing game that all ends up close to the same in the end. Also, my heart still yearns for the Titan, so what is that worth?
  • boomer1bboomer1b Member Posts: 316
    I have seen recently on a titan forum there is a 100 day plus supply of titans, armadas and Qs sitting on the lots. Better rebates ARE coming !

    Good things come to those who wait.............
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Gee, I don't think Ford has that many F-series trucks hanging around on the dirt unowned, do they?
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    Hey Boomer! You gonna wait till they make one with windows that work?

    kip
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I drove a Dodge Ram last night for kicks. It was an ok ride, but the Ford, Titan and the GM pickups are all more fun to drive, IMO.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    I have seen some traded on Nissan and Doge lots.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    Well, you could wait till bigger rebates kick in on the Titan. Get what you are going to be happy with and enjoy it.Money makes F150 look the most tempting between the Titan and F150.
  • blakecamblakecam Member Posts: 3
    I came very very close to purchasing an F-150 a week ago at an unbelievable deal, but then I went and drove the Titan. The Titan drivetrain is superior to the F-150. The prices on Ford sure are tempting, but I'd be settling for second best (in my opinion). However, all the chatter about Titan's lack of build quality has me concerned. I'm still undecided and thoroughly confused. I guess I'll find out about any additional rebates because I'm going to consider these trucks for another week, at least.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    build quality concerns are easily dealt with. all you have to do is look over the truck closely, and look for parts that arent symmetrical.

    ie:

    the gap between the fenders and the hood. are the gaps different sizes or the same?

    does the trim around the headliner look even?

    look closely at the paint.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    Aren't the service people suppose to notice these differences before it gets to the consumer? I'm waiting for bigger rebates to make it worth the risk. Do you think the rebates will ever get as big as Ford's rebates? These gas prices have gotten me a little concern about buying trucks such as the F150 and the Titan. October seems like a good month to buy older models before the newer ones hit the markets. Is it true about the 100 day supply of Titans still sitting on the lot?
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    "Is it true about the 100 day supply of Titans still sitting on the lot?"

    well, we sell about 10 a month and have 34 in stock...so yeah...about 100 days. normal inventory in the new car biz is 90 days, so the 100 day thing isnt outrageous.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    Will their be bigger rebates because of the 100 day supply? Or will it just stay the same? The 2005 Titan should be here by at least the end of October. Do you think it will have the same problems as the 04?
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    If you are worried about the build quality, check the manufacture date and buy one made lately. There are MANY (contrary to what ANT says) MANY Titans that have no quality problems. The main problem was the radio that was fixed after 6/04/04 build dates.

    Also, the new F-150 ALSO has many issues so don't be scared about build quality. I have had my Titan for 6 months with the radio being the only real issue.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    What's the big deal picking on the people from Canton? This is a first year plant producing five different new vehicles. F150 is a really good truck built by some experience crews. It should have the highest dependability rating. The Nissan Titan will be the best truck by people in the state of Mississippi. Nissan Titan will have that rating of highest dependability soon enough. Ford should just enjoy the moment while it can before the Titan takes over. The 2005 Titan will surely will make a big splash in dependability so Ford truck people should be concerned about a change of the guard.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    People are quick to judge negatively when it's a vehicle from a domestic manufacturer that's experience problems. They perceive (as you displayed) that because it's foreign, it'll be better, or it'll be the best.

    If Ford would have had the same issues the Titan is having, the headlines would read "The world is ending, they did it wrong, company goes bankrupt because of quality issues".

    So instead of misguiding people and saying all is perfect, and sweeping it under the carpet as many wish to do. Best to show factual information and warn them, before making their purchase based upon "perceived" notions.
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    "Nissan Titan will have that rating of highest dependability soon enough." Sounds like the claim of a Tundra fan. Oblivious to reality. Right now Titan is nowhere near that rating. Like Titan, the F150 is an all new vehicle, however; F150 enjoys the top rating while Titan...Man, I really think my brakes should work and I really like my windows to roll up. It's a nice truck but can they make one that WORKS?
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    I am starting to get the impression the f150 people are a little threatened by the titan. You know I am sure the f150 has its issues. I am pretty sure they have made plenty that do work. There hasn't been any recalls. The F150 will actually have a contender for its crown. The Titan will take it with authority. Hey, the f150 is still a great truck and on top for now.
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    Are you forgetting that there are more than 2 trucks on the market? You're right.Ford enjoys the top spot right now and next year is still to be seen but, there's no evidence that ANY of the four other trucks on the market will be substantially better than they are now. If history is an indicator then Titan STILL won't be on top, but the new Tundra might.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    Well, I saw the full size Tundra prototype. It looked very goofy. I would much rather have a F150. The titan will be the new king in the game. The tundra may become a prince along with Ford. I seen the trucks out there and the f150 and titan caught my attention. Most of the other trucks styles are outdated or cheaply material or poor riding dynamics. Maybe, the Tundra won't look so goofy when they are finish. F150 is king for now but there will be a new king of trucks called the Titan.
  • kg11kg11 Member Posts: 530
    Saying "Titan WILL be king" is like saying "IF my brother were here he could kick your..."
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Like, "my kid can beat up your honor student" bumper stickers...

    It looks as if - if there is to be a contender to the F-150, the Titan has the most potential at this moment. I would not count Toyota out forever, but if there is a weakness to the Tundra, it would likely be in style, where Toyota has yet to often impress. Many, however, don't care about that, and lots of them drive Sequoias anyway.

    GM is so in love with last century technology, it's not likely they will overtake anybody, yet, they build a decent comfy truck that runs pretty well, for those who never lift a hood, it remains a favorite.

    Dodge - well, continues to look great, and hang on to the economy crowd who are dazzled by the price, and don't notice how tinny they remain. Or don't care. Hell, it's cheap and fast. What more can you ask for?

    So, we can't wait to see how the shootout between the King and the Titan comes out. And it could go either way. Both Nissan and Ford are very similar companies in their inconsistencies and inability to stay on course financially. I submit, given these two outstanding, and similar trucks, that the financial well being the companies will yet determine the ultimate winner. In the end, we all win though, as these two excellent trucks fight for first place. They both just get better in the process.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    Well, I am just have a little fun with the f150 crowd insecurities towards the Titan. But you are right as you commented in your last paragraph about them being similar.We win as both trucks keeps getting better in the process. That's the true purpose of competition with improvement and better prices. I am pretty sure when I purchase my Titan I will probably blow pass alot of f150 people on the highway like they are standing still. I will probably be towing a boat. The f150 crowd should enjoy the moment while at last for their truck being on top.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    my Urologist neighbor is planning on trading in his Armada on an Excursion for the opposite reason, the Armada doesn't pull his toy hauler well enough - not enough grunt. So, blowing past the F-150? Maybe not.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    NVbanker, tell your friend a new extended Expedition will debut for 2006 (to be introduced in late 2005), if that is sufficient for him without having to upgrade to an Excursion, or incase he needs to get the Excursion, before they finish building them...
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    What will the engine options be in the extendoExp?
    Diesel? V-10? He traded an F-250 V-10 in on the Armada, and regrets it now.

    Also, I had heard the Excursion had received a stay of execution for a while...not true? Does the ExtendoExp replace the Excursion?
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    an expedition wont pull any more than the armada. what the guy needs is a diesel.

    read a little more carefully, ANT. his reasoning wasnt space, its towing.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    He also laments the Armada is a tad shy of cargo space for his family outings, lots of kids, you know, so it's both power and space he's looking for. The Armada was expected to replace both a Suburban and the F-250, and it's not enough of either I guess. I think that's why he's thinking about a Power Stroke Excursion.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Engine options are still being planned out, there's an even bigger V8 (codenamed Hurricane) that might debut in time for it.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    Did it have the big tow package? That does make a difference. The big tow allows the Titan to tow 9500lbs. How big is this toy hauler anyway? You know you got a big crew and a lot of stuff if you got to have an excursion. You might want to consider an f350. Most people don't normally try to go above the tow limit of the vehicle. If I knew a Titan with the big tow package could pull 9500lbs than I wouldn't try to put 12000lbs on it. Titan also has vdc. Does this urologist understand how to properly equip a vehicle for towing heavy trailers and boats? He's a urologist that's not the same field as towing heavy boats and trailers. There's a little bit more to it than just hooking it up and pulling it off.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    i have to agree on this. either he bought it without knowing the weight of his rig, or he doesnt know how to equip a truck for towing.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The toy hauler was just acquired, and it's big, but shouldn't be that heavy. Certainly not more than 9500lbs. The Armada does have the big tow package on it. Although, I've noted that most Dr. think they know everything from plumbing to brain surgery, and this one is probably no exception, I do believe he has a fair amount of experience with towing stuff and rigs. He seems to. He wasn't complaining about the handling of the Armada so much, although some fishtailing was referenced - mostly by the wife, Dr. was saying it was negligiable, it was the 5 MPG and pedal to the floor so much. From the beginning, they complained that the Armada just didn't hold enough stuff for family trips, and they had to get a roof carrier, which wouldn't fit because of some wierd roof rail design? I didn't completely understand that. Their Suburban was perfect for trips, they say, sizewise, but was unreliable as it aged, and they don't want another one. The F-250 was the perfect tow vehicle, but not large enough for family excursions in the cab, family is growing. At the time, they considered an Excursion, but felt it was too large for everyday driving. But, the extendoExp may be perfect, IF you can get more engine or a P/S in it. I have another friend, who traded his Tahoe for an Armada, and has been very pleased with it in all aspects. But, then from a Tahoe, I would expect him to be very pleased.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    tell him to be patient with the cargo carriers. the aftermarket companies had 30 years to set them up for a 'burb, and its only been a year for the 'mada.

    also, if he doesnt have a weight-distributing class IV hitch, then he cant tow 9500 lbs. the factory hitch is only a regular class IV.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    I agree 100% with this statement (still don't know how a site can be posted!!!!) I have actually seen too new F-150s being towed and put up on a flatbed on the side of hwy 400 on one trip with-in an 1/2 hour of each other. There were no other cars/trucks breaking down on my whole 5 hour trip. Could be a coincidence but those Ford froumns also mention this problem a lot.
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  • mcscjtmcscjt Member Posts: 17
    looks like my post got deleted for citing another forum (in response to ANT14's citing a Titan forum).

    my point was that people who are members of forums are the ones with problems or are seeking advice about tinkering with their vehicle, so there it may seem as if a high percentage of forum members are having problems... that is the nature of automobile forums.

    my second point was that if you visit F150 forums, you will find that those owners are also having some problems... such as stalling out while coasting, which can be a very serious problem, especially if it leads to an accident. This could be devastating to Ford if it leads to a recall.

    Nissan does need to improve quality. There is no doubt about that. Some vehicles are problem free while other seem to have many nagging issues. But this is a new vehicle from a new plant and overall, they have done well. I expect Nissan to improve each year.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Sorry honorable, roving host. Smiling emoticon :) was intended to imply humor in post, so that tone would not be mis-understood.
  • foureyes3foureyes3 Member Posts: 165
    That stalling while coasting sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I haven't really heard anything about the Titan having engine problems.They do need check their brakes. Either one is dangerous. I have also noticed that the rebate for the Titan has reached 2 grand. It is still far behind F150 rebates. Nissan does need to improve its quality. The competition should motivate both parties to take care of quality issues. I am sure F150 and Titan will correct it quality issues through its people and suppliers. The practice of cutting costs to increase profit can be tricky when it comes to trying to maintain top quality. Right now you can get a fully loaded Titan at a pretty reasonable note. I think a little more patience will save a little more money. Patience costs a lot less than money.
  • stump21stump21 Member Posts: 41
    an Armada vs a F250! To be a urologist I would imagine brains would be required. Anyone who thinks an Armada will pull a load as well as a F250 heavy duty pickup is not very bright. Don't want to create an argument but some of the vehicle comparisons I see on these boards are ridiculous!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    How much difference is there though, between an Armada and the Titan, other than the finished off bed and roof rack?
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    armada has a shorter wheelbase and doesnt need the big tow pkg. to max out its capacity.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    How about in the power train?
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    somehow, the torque is 6 ft-lbs. more (385) at the same RPM. but nissan says the powertrain is identical.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Difference between the IRS and live axle in the truck maybe?
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    the power and torque numbers are at the flywheel, not the road, so i dont know what is different.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm not sure the average Urologist, or average Joe, knows that an SUV built on a truck platform doesn't necessarily tow just like the truck does. I'm sure Dr. C expected the Armada to tow as well as the Titan would have - which may be partially why he's disappointed.
  • boomer1bboomer1b Member Posts: 316
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