Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

keanec · February 2004

Your Quote:

"I am glad I convinced you that the new F150 did increased the sales of the F-series. Common sense always win out. Actually Ford sold over 26k of new F150 in January, about 8k of the old ones (03&04 models), so there you go."

Another quote of yours:

"In 2003, Ford sold 845,586 F-series, 350,320 of them were F250-F550, good for 41%. In other words, F150 accounts for 59%, not 45%."

Ford Quote and Fact:

"F-Series 61,979" (for Jan 2004)

Fact (based on your quotes) Ford F-150 series had approx. 55% of the Jan 2004 sales of all the F-series - A 4% decrease from the average of 2003.

Now - Where did you get your figures?

Spin it any way you want, Ford's F-series lost market share in Jan for whatever reason. No matter how you spin it, only Dodge had a worse increase; for whatever reason.

Live with it.

As to the Titan projections for Jan - get real. Many dealers still had not even got any Titans. Nissan won't hit their average monthly sales for quite a while for reasons mentioned above.

PF_Flyer · February 2004

Not that everyone is always going to agree on everything, but things start to get a little edgy when people start trying to "prove" things here. Take a couple of deep breaths and let's not let this spin off into a personal battle.

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hairong · February 2004

[EDIT]: Sorry modulator. It's on topic (for this round anyway), and I don't think it's getting personal, yet. [/EDIT]

Fact (based on your quotes) Ford F-150 series had approx. 55% of the Jan 2004 sales of all the F-series - A 4% decrease from the average of 2003.

Monthly (or seasonal) fluctuations. I thought I mentioned this somewhere. Oh, it was on GM, it should also apply on Ford, and F-sereis. Wait, I thought you agreed the new F150 is the reason for the F-series sales increase.

Now - Where did you get your figures?

Well, I bought a brand new Lincoln LS at Accord price... I have my sources. bowke probably can get you the exact number, if he wants to.

Spin it any way you want, Ford's F-series lost market share in Jan for whatever reason. No matter how you spin it, only Dodge had a worse increase; for whatever reason.

Live with it.

In a rapid and ever expanding segment. If F-series can have double digit increase month after month, and setting all time records along the way, I certainly can live with it.

As to the Titan projections for Jan - get real. Many dealers still had not even got any Titans. Nissan won't hit their average monthly sales for quite a while for reasons mentioned above.

I don't know who needs to get real here. Every automaker, I repeat EVERY, has sales projection for every single model they make. They know how many they made/can make, they know their capacity, they know what sells in what region and in what season. And I was not asking Titan to reach average monthly number. I was asking for the projection.

dave989 · February 2004

the arrogant import buyer

keanec · February 2004

If your happy that Ford is losing market share in a growing segment with a brand spanking new truck, then great; to each his own.
and to "my own", preaching "double digit growth" (you can't get much closer to single digit growth :-) ) over as year that declined by a "high" single digit (7.24%) isn't impressive to me. I would have thought with the amount of hoopla and advertising done, the growth of the Ford F-150 would have been the best of the bunch - which so far it is not.

As an aside, I would still like somebody to find and post a source that can show F-150 sales only on a monthly and yearly basis for the last number of years.

midnight_stang · February 2004

"Just to go a little further, Ford actually had the 2nd worst increase of full size truck sales in January."

2nd worst increase in sales? How is this bad if you already sell the most trucks? Might want to review the nature of statistics.

Ford 9.6% increase is 5410 trucks (based on pickuptruck.com's numbers)
Tundra's 23.7% increase is 1741 trucks
Avalanche's 65.3% increase was 2549 trucks.

How's that for growth? Only the Sierra and Silverado combined can surpass the F-150, in new sales vs jan 2003, not in total sales of 2004.

biggie2 · February 2004

10% increase year over year for a truck with the volume of the F-150 is pretty dang big. Furthermore with the lower incentives given out for the new F-150, Ford should be making a bundle on this new truck.

Although we still do not know what sold best, Heritage, new F-150, or F-250 and above. ANT doesnt get back untill the 10th, hopefully we will get some real numbers then.

My explination for the Tundra and GM trucks are these.
The Tundras new Double Cab is basically a new truck this year as well. A lot of work and money had to go into this truck to give it its four real doors. So quite possibly the increase could be due to sales of this new model. Who knows, but it is some sort of explination. Either way, a almost 30% increase year over year is amazing for an aging truck like the Tundra, i dont know how else to explain it.

The GM trucks have the highest incentives right now by far... And they traditionally always have. No doubt in my mind that Ford is making much more money even though GM has had more sales in January. Either way, i would say that 15% increase over last year with it being the only truck out there with such a lavish incentive base is a number i would expect.

triat · February 2004

All this talk about sales is laborious. The Ford guys keep saying ad infinitum the F150 is best because it's selling the most??

Then McDonald's is the best hamburgers, and Walmart is the best place to buy furniture and clothing.

No thanks, I prefer Rocky Ranch's real beef Texas Hamburger, and the local run shop for real athletic wear.

midnight_stang · February 2004

Oh great, the fast food and discount supermarket references. Next you'll be saying the import manufacturers only sell X amount of vehicles, because that's all they want to make. (That's what the Tundra guys have been saying).

What about DVD's at Walmart? Is there any problem with buying the same exact DVD at walmart than at Sam Goody's for 7 bucks more? Or hangers? I'm sure IKEA has the best hangers, as the simple plastic ones defintely have a hard time holding up my clothes. <sarcasm>

"All this talk about sales is laborious. The Ford guys keep saying ad infinitum the F150 is best because it's selling the most??"

And Bob Dole keeps saying he's the best because he got the most votes in the last election.

So let's not sidestep anymore. You know that each time a vehicle is bought, that's what the vehicle buyer wanted, unless he just had 20 to 30 grand to burn. Each purchase is a vote for what vehicle suited the person best for pricing, type of otions, or lotalty reasons. So if the "best" truck is not accurate for F-150, then it must be the most the most sought after/desired truck.

aggiemph1 · February 2004

but its pretty damn good for most folks so they buy it....nothing to be ashamed about, one thing that ford doesn't have a problem with is giving the consumer what he/she wants. and with all the styles they offer, they can make it YOUR way. Nobody can touch ford when it comes to options on trucks. The lesson from them is use a wide net, catch a lot of fish.

Import manufacturers use a little different approach, the Titan is aimed at the first time truck buyer IMO, who has a family, and maybe a boat and has owned foreign cars before, in my belief

triat · February 2004

I have to say I agree with posters sometime ago who stated we will have a better idea of "best", and "most sought after" truck sometime down the road. In fact my contention is, considering the debate of Chev vs. Ford vs. Dodge has gone on for decades, now adding Nissan and Toyota to the mix likely will only cloud the issues more.

Speaking of desireability, I waited 7 weeks for a Titan,CC,SE,Util Bed Pkg to come in. At any moment I could have literally walked 3 blocks over to Ford & had my pick of some 30-40 F150's all with $4,000 discounts. It was worth the wait.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but Accord and Camry had some very humble beginnings,and with just a few dealers. If Ford & Chev use some of the loyalists' self rationalizations as on this thread, they're gonna get whooped again and on the last leg they have.

cornellpremed · February 2004

The Nissan guys were boasting how their truck would sell 100,000+ units this year.

How many was it that they managed in January again? LOL.

They've been rolling them out to dealerships for a while now. I'm sure sales will pickup somewhat, but not nearly as much as Nissan would hope.

cornellpremed · February 2004

I read in an article that they're highly/fully loaded versions of the new F-150. Lots of $$$ for Ford.

nvbanker · February 2004

I think the Titan is very good, a particularly good first effort, but two things bother me. One, is the noisy cab. The other, is long term dependability. Don't laugh, it's Japanese, but Nissan is not the class leader in reliability all the time. It rides on reputation sometimes.

aggiemph1 · February 2004

I agree with post #470. I own a Nissan, and it has been a garage queen, nothing catastrophic, but for a while there it was a regular $600 trip to the shop every 2 or 3 months. Even though it has only left me stranded once (180,000 miles), I think Nissan's reputation rides on the coattails of Honda and Toyota. Another thing to consider if you are thinking about switching from domestic to import is dealership experience. I have had mostly negative dealership experiences with imports. The service at the local Nissan dealer however has been exceptional, in contrast to the last place I lived.

bowke28 · February 2004

actually, dealer inventories wont be up to set goals until mid-march.

durocab · February 2004

I don't agree with Aggies that often but he is pretty close in post. I've had Ford and switched to Toyotas and Nissans because of "longevity" and reliability. Most domestics that I have dealt with and owned seem to have more problems around 80,000 to 100,000 mile mark..

dklanecky · February 2004

http://nissannews.com/

Nissan sales up 25.7% over Last years January.

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=F&scri- pt=414&layout=-6&item_id=491202

"Overall, U.S. customers purchased or leased 230,036 cars and trucks from Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar, Volvo, and Land Rover dealers in January, down 5 percent compared with a year ago, primarily reflecting lower sales of passenger cars (down 14 percent). Truck sales essentially were equal to a year ago."

nvbanker · February 2004

25.7% of what base though? Probably a smaller number than the 5% drop of combined Ford sales.

cindyroderick · February 2004

Nissan it seems is gunning for porsche. Read this

http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/newswire/2004/02/08/rtr1251109.ht- ml

bewhite25 · February 2004

The Titan has very good qualities, but I feel it's overpraised. It's drawing rave reviews simply becasue it's big, it's new, and it can acclerate more quickly than the competition. The F-150 might not be the quickest, but it's built with quality. It's a solid vehicle. The interior is gorgeous, and I would choose nothing else if I planned on doing work, with an engine developed for the purpose of putting out low-end torque. It's extremely quiet and smooth. Also, I think the F-150 would be a more family-friendly vehicle. But, for someone looking for something sporty that can do just as much work as the F-150, the Titan might not be a bad choice. And for all that criticism about the F-150's weight and slow acceleration, I'm sure we can expect a power increase in a year or two. When the 5.4 Triton came out in '97, it got an extra 25 horses and about 20 lb.-ft of torque in '99. Ford also said that a new auto transmission ( 5 sp. I believe) will be coming out soon since they didn't have the time or the money to make one ready by '04. That should definitely get more out of the Triton.

hansienna · February 2004

Reliability, good looks, wide choice of options, value for money spent.
Just look at the center pages of February 16, 2004 issue of Newsweek magazine to refresh your memory on just how attractive the Ford F-150 is.

joehoe · February 2004

Competition can only benefit the consumer, right?

nvbanker · February 2004

That's the basic rule of commerce.

aggiemph1 · February 2004

newsweek.....lol

durocab · February 2004

Go pick any Dodge forum... we don't look for confirmations that we bought the right truck... we look for assistance, and to learn. We don't need a VS forum to get us able to sleep. We bought it, and we live with it.

Wow! I leave for a few days and guys go nuts!

I see the Aggie is still here and I'm able to accept that so what's the big deal?

durocab · February 2004

Go pick any Dodge forum... we don't look for confirmations that we bought the right truck... we look for assistance, and to learn. We don't need a VS forum to get us able to sleep. We bought it, and we live with it.

Wow! I leave for a few days and guys go nuts!

I see the Aggie is still here and I'm able to accept that so what's the big deal?

Titan Rules!!

durocab · February 2004

Just glad somebody is still out there. By the way, how's the hunting in your neck of the woods? The big woods that is. Are we supposed to drop the Dodge-Titan lingo? I don't care as long as we're all happy paying our bills anc free to drive what we all please. Let's just relax... You guy's were really going at it.
Isn't there a hockey game on so one can relieve some stress watching a player beat the crap out of another or down here a race where the crowd watches cars go around in circles waiting for something to happen.

nvbanker · February 2004

Not much of substance has been posted in here for a while now. Ford bashing and heavy breathing over the fact that Japan finally put out a truck. I think all the real issues have been debated out.

thors_hammer · February 2004

Bringing back the real issues--according to the dealer lit the Titan requires premium fuel, which increases fuel costs roughly 10% here. Premium fuel is what took the Titan off my shopping list.

nvbanker · February 2004

Hmmmm - didn't know that. Big drawback to many, fuel costs will be 20 cents a gallon more.

kjdenahy · February 2004

The owner's manual actually states to use 87 Octane in the Titan. The literature that is curently in some dealerships is a misprint.

keanec · February 2004

The Titan Does Not need premium fuel!

durocab · February 2004

Runs like a wild cheeta on 87..Slow this baby down!

setzer · February 2004

If you took a survey on new truck buyers, more buyers would have bought a F-150 then a Titan. Why? Because of the numbers. The inventory units of the Titan are 6,500 where as the inventory units for the F-Series are 233,700. That includes all of the F-series vehicles, not just the F-150. But still. If you got the number of F-150s out of it it would be way more than the Titan. But, I'm sure Nissan will bump up those numbers over the next few years.

durocab · February 2004

Yep, I was fixin to drive off with the F 150 (a good looking interior) until I test drove the Titan. I really wanted to give the F 150 a shot but the drive and features of the Titan got me. I havn't had this much fun driving since my 67 Camaro. Some friends of mine got the F-150 we will see over time who made the right decision. Hope we are all happy. Competition makes us all better. Jimmy Spencer should know that. Funny how he has forgiven the Germans. Maybe they look more like him or something?

bowke28 · February 2004

to achieve the posted specs (305 HP, 379 lb-ft.), it requires regular unleaded. premium increases the specs if you choose to use it. this is how all nissans are, except the 350Z.

nvbanker · February 2004

Well, that's a load off! I agree, the Titan is a blast to drive. And that's very important. Wish the interior wasn't so Wal-Mart cheap though. Would be a good work truck, but not if you use the truck more professionally.

bowke28 · February 2004

i dont get what everyone means by this...is it because its a little more monochromatic? if so, spend a couple hundred on wood trim and get black seats instead of gray. that should do it.

nvbanker · February 2004

Yeah, it is kind of "everyone", isn't it. I don't mean to denigrate the car, it's a hellova performer. The lack of trim may have something to do with it, but for me, it's more the grade and obvious overuse of thin ugly plastic you are surrounded by. I like the design of the storage bins, that fit file folders, but they're ugly. The door panels and dash are an unappealing design to me as well. Mostly though, the one I looked at and drove had leather supposedly. But honestly, I had to ask if it were leather or vinyl. I couldn't tell for the life of me, that's how cheap the leather was. If it was really leather, frankly, I still don't really believe the guy.

It feels very Nissan inside. I'm looking into the QX56 to see if I like the interior of that better.

morganv · February 2004

Having owned Fords for over 25 years, we bought our first non-ford truck in 2003, a RAM1500 hemi, followed by another about 6 months later. Theyve been perfect trucks so far, not one problem with either one. After 3 transmissions in the last 4 fords, and terrible reliability, we decided to call it quits with ford. We found out what a few others have found out, that when you have a problem ford stands behind their trucks. Way behind, like 6000 miles away.

We bought a Titan just before christmas. It is the one I usually drive since the RAMs are almost always hooked up to one of the trailers or loaded with grain or something else. The titan isn't as quiet as the RAM, but I like the way it drives and suits me pretty good. I wish the pedals were closer since I'm kinda short. If we do any serious hauling we use the other trucks since the boxes are much bigger and they seem to tow a little easier.

Weve had a few issues with the Titan. The transmission over heated, the first time we towed a 4-set up trailer. We are getting what the dealer said was some clutch chatter, but that comes and goes. Sometimes the dash lights flicker and the power steering has a growl in it in real cold weather. The real gripe is the gas mileage is lousy. We are going to see how this truck holds up, but we may trade it off next summer.

trucker49 · February 2004

I guess if i can get a 30 thousand dollar f-150 for 23 with rebate it'd be stupid to consider a Titan but I do like the performance and handling of the Nissan

nvbanker · February 2004

You're the first person I've ever heard say that the Dodges outperform the Fords materially. Actually your the first I've heard say the Fords don't hold up. Sounds like the Titan isn't getting off to a good start either, but the Titan is F-150 class. For the towing you do, F-250 class would sound more appropriate. What level Dodges are you running? 1500 or 2500?

ANT14 · February 2004

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=17486

F-150 just received the governments highest rating for frontal crash (NHTSA). This assessment is different from the IIHS test, which the F-150 received a "BEST PICK" rating.

morganv · February 2004

I don't know what you mean by materially, but we are really impressed with everything about the Dodges. Everything is top quality and really really solid. the seats are very comfortable and much better on long drives that our fords that we owned in the past. We have a RAM 1500 and a 2500, I think. We tow horse trailers with both. The fords we towed with were superdutys. My husband could better explain it but both of our Dodges have a lot more power than any of our fords, and he likes the handling a lot. We traded our windstar on the Titan.

We had head gaskets replaced on the 2002 ford at 70k and it never seemed to run right from the start. They replaced the computer 3 or 4 times , then just gave up on the truck.lots of little problems in the last few fords we owned. We had rear end problems on the 98. the ford transmissions in the last few years are junk. we have friends whove owned fords as long as us and have had troubles to. We had paint problems, door problems, starter problems, electrical problems, and brake problems all of the time. So far in 2 years weve had less problems with our Dodges than we ever did with the last 2 fords. We still have a 97 ford that my son drives. that will be the last ford in our future!!

We bought the titan on a lark, and we didn't need a minivan anymore since the kids are all driving them selves around anyways. a minivan is nice as long as it isn't a ford. talk about transmission problems. we had to replace the engine on that to, out of our pockets, I might ad.

Some of our friends have owned dodges and they just never seem to have many problems with them, so we didn't that since ford snubbed on the last transmission, we'd try them (dodge). One of the reasons we bought fords for so many years is they don't rust out as quick as the chevys. my dads a REAL big chevy man and he takes a beating on tradins because they always have rust holes in them. The dodges around here seem to hold up as good as the fords.

I like the titan but the gas mileage is pretty bad, so i might try a dakota next time. Also, I thought Id want 4 doors but maybe that was a bad decision, now.

Bye.

bowke28 · February 2004

you think your dad had a bad time trading a chevy?!?! just wait till you try it with your dodge!

chriss9 · February 2004

Funny you should mention Dakota. Have you seen the 2005 promos? http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/dodge/dakota.html 3.7 V6 210 HP paired up with 6-speed Getrag sounds like great fun vehicle to drive? It did to me.
I was torn and agonizing which one to get, Titan or Dakota. Gas mileage would be the worst fear. Well, after having done a number crunching, for my style of driving (26,000 mi. a year) looks like I will be spending $80 more a month for the additional fuel consumption. I can easily come up with that. I CANNOT come up with the feeling of tank-ness that Titan has while sitting in a Dodge. In fact, Dodge's mileage even with weaker V6 offers minuscule improvement in final price over Titan, yet massive sacrifice in size.
I have always said, what costs most in a vehicle is not the fuel, but depreciation.
I'll wait until mid-year until the dealers start feel hotter under the collars and get bare-bones, no-frills Titan, and happily roll into sunset.
There could not be any inklings to upgrade from that. Shouldn't cost more than $3-4k over similar no-frills Dakota for a lot more of a truck.
OH BTW, in the way of introduction, I recently (2000) started to buy new vehicles. They key is to locate a desperate dealer, preferably away from metro areas of big cities, dangle the signed check, then rip off a huge chunk in one bite and swim away in new shiny toy. I'll let y'all know how I did.

morganv · February 2004

bowke, that's an old song that has no truth to it. In fact, around here used dodges are not any where near as common as used fords or chevys. we've looked at the resale picture and Dodge is actually better than ford. Besides, whats any truck worth when theyt are 6 years old and have 150,000 miles on them????

Chris, we are already in the country! there aren't a lot of any kind of dealers around here. One chevy, one dodge, and one ford. etc. I'm thinking of going down in size because i really don't need a big truck anymore. I've driven a dakota a number of times (my daughter and son in law have one) and I like the size and the way it handles. Besides, the box on the titan isn't much bigger than a dakota, anyways.

bowke28 · February 2004

common knowledge in the car biz here...people in the country will pay more for any truck than people in the city. if you can find the right person who doesnt know what the truck is REALLY worth, then more power to you...but ive been selling trucks for quite a while, and the old song has been sung for a reason.

chriss9 · February 2004

I don't need a big truck... I just want one.
Beds are virtually same, but majority of the time I spend in truck is behind the wheel - hence strong predilection for bigger cabin.
I will see how the service fees and insurance will compare b/n Dakota and Titan and will make a decision based on that.
Reason I had better luck with rural dealers is that in metro areas there is a marketing fee levied on all common brand dealers for these full page color ads in local fishwrapper. At any rate, when the dealer sees that you are getting serious about commitment, they will search the inventory state-wide anyway. It's all about "who wants to make a sale today?". There will always be someone.
Last Nissan I bought was 2002 Altima S 2.5 w/ 5 spd. (Love it!!!) Called 9 dealers. Some would not budge $50 off their price, smug b@$t@rds. Took two days off of work, and racked up some long-distance charges, developed major headache and sore throat from yelling, but at the end... $4,200 difference from the first offer I heard made it very worth it. It was $1,100 less than everybody swore than they cannot do. Bought at the time when there was no Nissan promotion of any kind.
This approach should work on Titan as well.
The rural dealers are very eager to unload Muranos, BTW, in my experience.
Bowke28, while you are at it, what is the truck's REAL worth, pray tell. (Hint: only as much as you can get someone to pay for it, not a penny more)

Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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