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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150
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Comments
if it has a sunroof, but still has a full truck functionality, does that make it NOT a truck? your statement is pretty closed minded.
if you have the money for 2 vehicles AND a work truck, more power to you...but wouldnt you save some cabbage if your truck did it all?
kip
thats like someone buying 10 widgets for the price of 9...but only need 3.
Haven't seen a Titan on the road yet. Has anyone?
This is the same situation I mentioned earlier about vehicles that failed to have certain items, because of a transition or market trend. As I stated earlier, at one time I got a vehicle without side airbags, when competitors did. Previous to that, I had a vehicle that had jus traction control, but not Anti-Skid system there were coming out. Did I care? Not really. I count numerous items first, before such extras.
As I've mentioned in some other boards. Stability Control systems make good driver's better, but doesn't substitute for carelessness of other's that drive with such systems, thinking they are invisible.
And as mentioned earlier by JCMDIE, some people do not wish to have such extras on their vehicles, that are packaged and buddled in ways that bring on higher costs, and complexity.
Which is why the F-150 has 5 different interior themes to please just about anyone. And numerous bed lengths, cab lengths, equipment levels, etc. to please just about any demographic.
i dont disagree...thats what ford does. but imagine you are the CEO of a company, and you would still return 90% of what you do now, by cutting 40% of your costs. wouldnt you do it?
But; If you put you and 4 of your friends in your Titan (or F150) and hook-up the 26 foot boat and head for the coast the same time as me, I will have caught all the fish and headed home by the time you get there (if you don't overheat on the hills)
Before I bought the first SUV to handle all my vehicle needs, I had a Town Car for work (an econobox will not work in my profession), and a Compact Pickup for recreation. Here's the figures.
One SUV:
12,000 miles per year @ 14 MPG Premuim fuel @$1.80/gal = $1542.
Work Car + Recreational Pickup:
7200 work miles per year @ 21 MPG Regular fuel @ $1.60/gal = $548.
4800 recreational miles per year @ 20 MPG Regular fuel @ $1.60/gal = $384.
Combined expense with 2 cars for fuel = $932.
Fuel cost savings = $610 per year.
Insurance costs for second commuter car in this state are $1000 per year, just for liability coverage alone. Then, there's the cost of the car, even with just a lease, it would be $300/month, or $3,600 per year.
Save $600 per year, and spend $4600 per year? And I'm being very conservative here. Doesn't work for me!!! Saving a little gas, but holding 4000 lbs of iron in my back yard that somebody else could drive?
hehehe! Put a Japanese nameplate on the Ford, and it still wouldn't feel right. The ergonomics & seating are ok, but the egress is still ridiculous for my long legs/big shoe size.
Tundra has been a good truck, I just need more interior space; and the utility bed package is going to be sweet for hauling bikes/race equipment.
2) You don't drive enough to justify the added cost. I live in central CA and most of my family live in eastern WA. I drive 22k-25k per year.
3) Huge difference in MPGs from what you quoted.
GMC 2500 HD w/8.1 and 4X4(6000lb), 13 hwy/ less than 9 city. Corolla 32/38.
Putting 18-20k on a $15k car means NOT buying a $35k truck every 5 years.
I don't have my calculator handy but I'm sure that you'll agree that there comes a point where the numbers work, and when I added it all up in Feb I came up with a $3800 per year difference, so now I drive a go-cart all over the place, and just use the truck to tow the boat and do home improvement projects.
Thanks for not jumping on the "big shoe size", that was way too easy!!
That depends on where you live.
I was thinking $1000 was about right unless it is 15 year old winter rat.
And I did not like the 2004 F-150 interior either.
People were preaching at them why did they buy an SUV, when it wastes more gas, yadda yadda. IN the end, they save $1900 a year, by having one less vehicle. Turns out the Expedition is much less to insure, and while it's fuel costs will be higher, still less than having 2 sedans running.
That's another senario to consider.
direct quote: " "We think these are modest incentives, and basically a sign of the success we've had in the marketplace," said Ford spokeswoman Karen Shaughnessy. "
Here is a quote about the rebates: " Ford told its dealers Thursday it was offering a $1,000 rebate or a 3-year, 0-percent loan on the F-150, as well as other loan deals such as a 6-year, 2.9-percent loan. The rebate and 0-percent loan aren't offered on the four-door SuperCrew version of the truck, which accounted for almost half of new F-150 sales in November."
It's nice the supercrew is selling well - over half of all the new F150 sold were supercrew. What does that say about those regular cabs and 8' boxes that all those farmers want? It seems to me Nissan really went after the heart of the market.
Here's a story on it: http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6668
There's greater rebates available, but on the previous version F-150 now called "Heritage".
2nd - The story quoted only said what I said in my post. Any previous rebates were for what I mentioned in1 above. As to everybody new it was coming - like who said it was coming this soon? Analysts thought they would eventually need them, but right away? Ford themselves have said they wanted to stay away from the incentive game with the new F150 for many reasons; the first being it costs more to make the new F150 than the old and the margins are less!
But nobody thinks that Nissan announcing the pricing of the Titan at a cheaper price had anything to do with it? It is just a thought.
Also, think about it, the F150 in November of 2003 only had a 10% increase over Nov 2002. With the heavily incented, and plentiful, 2003 F150 around, and only a total 23,000 between the two? The Ford dealer in my town has at least 40 2003 on the lot right now, and they sold many over the last while - I know 2 people who bought the F150 2003 in nov because of the great price.
I don't buy they put incentives on because they are selling so well! Sorry.
Ford said new F150 are selling very well, they are increasing the production, they are putting incentives on it. I came away thinking, they are trying to drive up the demand. Even if this promotion is only break even, the loss of profit by the incentive equals to the gain made on the extra units sold, Ford will be winning. They can claim that they "sold" more in Dec. and are gaining (or losing less) market share.
As to the new incentives have anything to do with the introduction of Titan, you bet they do. Look, every maker sold more full size pick ups in November than they did last year, yes, even the Tundra. Yet, they are adding new/more incentives. They are trying to cannibalize the demand, a preemptive strike, so to speak. Just like what others did to Ford back in August/September.
That all said, I still think Titan will be a success. 1. the full size PU segment is still booming; 2. Titan is a good product and Nissan's sales target is reasonable (maybe too low); 3. the pent up demand of a true truck for import lovers are too strong.
"As to the new incentives have anything to do with the introduction of Titan, you bet they do."
I think this is not the case. People that are waiting to buy a Titan haven't in many cases even gotten to drive one yet, so Ford has no idea what kind of market share the Titan will take or build. If anything the incentives, which have been with the F-150 almost since launch, were started due to fierce competition from GM and Dodge. Not so much because Ford doesn't have a excellent new pick-up, but more because the incentives GM and Dodge models have are rather large.
I think the main crowd that Nissan will appeal to is those that are currently driving foreign products (i.e. Tundra). Sure there will be some customers coming over from the big three to the Titan, but IMHO, not in huge numbers. Anyway, only time will tell, and for the Titan time has just begun.
an incentive is for one reason, and one reason only. there is trouble somewhere. if the reason given is actual, then all they are doing is ruining the resale value even more.
Rebates are made for selling trucks. Selling more trucks makes the cost to build each truck go down. Is it a 1 to 1 ratio between the cost of rebates, vs the savings for building more trucks? Who knows, probably not, but in the end, people want the best truck for the money.
Maybe Nissan needs to give up some profit to make their truck more affordable/desirable?
When the F150 came out in KCab's I thought Ford made a huge mistake. Most(>50%) people want Ccab's but it's like each dealer only got one token CCab. Sure enough, the KCab's collected. Now I'm seeing F150 Ccab's now accumulating.
I have to admit it's ironic seeing new '04 F150's lined up with new '03's they can't sell.
"an incentive is for one reason, and one reason only. there is trouble somewhere"
Says you I guess, but I disagree. But then what do I know. You're the dealer here.
I honestly don't think that Ford is extremely worried about the Titan being that large of a threat to F-150 sales. Only because Titan is a completely NEW product that is coming into a market loaded with very loyal customers. If anything the the new Tundra has the advantage over the Titan in taking away sales form the Big 3 in that it has been in the market longer to establish a market base.
But I do also think folks shop more now. 10 months ago with only sketch of a Titan, you wouldn't have had much luck convincing me to even looking at a Nissan! Nice cars/suv's, but a full sized truck?
Actually, from last months sales, only 11-15K were the new F-150 version. The rest of the sales were the "Heritage" model. The other 2 factories producing the new F-150 haven't/and won't, start up till spring/summer of next year.
The PickUp Truck segment has the most loyal buyer's, and in that segment, the F-150 tops above GM. Analysts have already stated that if sales are lost of other manufacturer's, it'll be from Dodge and Toyota, rarely someone from Ford of GM.
Another point: 60% of models, are the upper trim versions where Ford makes the most profits. Therefore a few rebates here and there, will not break the back. And as pointed out by some other analysts, considering the new version is more expensive to build, it offsets it considering the upper trim models are making up for a larger piece of the pie. Hence, they break even and then some.
To me, IMHO, the Interior of both the F150 and the Titan are more Japanese/European than they are American. I was always under the impression that Ford copied Nissan - but I don't know for sure.
The article goes on to say that the new F150 actually did worse than the old F150. They were disappointed the Ford had taken the opportunity to improve its crash protection with the brand new F150. The tests were all done at 5mph and it is not for safety but for cost of repair. The Insurance institute said that a vehicle should not sustain $1500 damage when you hit something moving at a fast walk.
These small little bumps (what they were testing for) shouldn't cause damage; that is why we are suppose to have 5 mph bumpers! Granted, I don't think trucks have 5 mph bumpers, but they still should absorb something.
However......I could be wrong too!
On the bumper thing, Ford is notorious for skimping on the bumpers. The original Taurus had a great bumper that when tested in this fashion, fared quite well. Two years later, it looked the same, but had been cheapened up so that it sustained some considerable damage when hit by the 5 mph pole. It's one of those things I wish they would attend to detail on, but not a deal breaker for me, as I have really never used a bumper that way yet.
After months of rough & tough F150 new frame commercials, now we find out be careful parking it, and oh, please don't touch the bumper??
Ok, I better get off my sarcasm soapbox! I wonder how the Titan will do, & how both will do in the crash tests...