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Saab 9-7X

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Comments

  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Why no CTS? 9-3 is pretty nice. Actually I would take any except the Lex and Inf.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    The I35 isn't a bad choice and since they're being discontinued you can probably get a great deal on one. Have you considered the G35?
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,262
    "I am still wondering how this "Unintended lane change warning system" is going to work."

    Infiniti says you can disable it. I know how I *want* it to work though: No disable switch, and administration of an electric shock if it's activated more than once a day (one freebie for evasive maneuvers). If you're too much of a jerk to use your signal, you deserve it.
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    SaabUSA seems to have an energy level/imagination problem. Come on, with a little imagination and some energy they could easily sell 10K more units with a super performance edition called the Aero PLUS. Just throw on some aftermarket drilled pedals in the interior, bring back the BBS wheels, offer it in a limited set of exterior colors, maybe for "safety sake" offer a hard wired radar detector, add a few performance tweeks, and voila, there is your 10K volume bump.

    Where is Lee Iacoccia when we need him?

    (Speaking of things Saab, have you ever seen a American Saab exec in a car mag? While everyone has heard of GM's Bob Lutz, Volvo's Mike Doolan (Dolan?), BMW's Bangle, etc, etc. when is the last time anyone from Saab US was ever interviewed in Car and Driver, at Lime Rock for a Vintage Day, maybe at a dealer open house, at a Ski area etc.? Have you ever called Atlanta and found anyone still in at 5:15PM? Saab used to OWN the "winter" car market in the US and they blew it. Not the General. Face it these are not car people and they're just running out the clock. IMHO these guys deserve what they get.)
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    blockislandguy -

    "they could easily sell 10K more units with a super performance edition called the Aero PLUS."

    They have a model it's called the "Aero by Hirsch"
    performance. Hirsch is the approved tuner in Europe. 280-305 HP/350-405 TRQ - Upgraded turbo, ECM, Pipes, new springs & struts and big AP racing brakes. SUPER WAGON!!!

    "Have you ever called Atlanta and found anyone still in at 5:15PM?"

    Traffic is pretty bad in Atlanta, I would get the hell out early also. :-)

    Saab needs AWD, they will get 10K more sales with this truck, abomination or not. I happen to think it's not an abomination, and hope it will be ok in production.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Actually, I haven't been considering the CTS or the G35 because of their price. I have a budget limit of $32,000 out the door, before taxes, title fees, and tags. I've heard on the ES330 prices paid board that you could get a nicely equipped ES330 (with NAV) for around $31,000 while a TL with no NAV is going for around the same price. The I35 looks like a big bargain to me, but depreciation worries me, as I trade cars after 5 years and around 95,000 miles of use.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think you might be a bit mistaken with respect to ES and TL pricing? Check TMV and carsdirect.com. TLs are still commanding at or near MSRP around here (about 33,500 w/o NAV), and there are no rebates in my area on ES330, which, with NAV/ML as packaged (with heated seats, wood trim steering wheel, VSC, mats, HID), sticker at 37.7K, so you're looking at about 33.5K on the invoice. But of course this might be different where you are- the TL and ES330 are immensely popular here in NJ/NY, and dealers probably have the advantage as opposed to consumers.

    Back to the Saab 9-7X. For all the negative commentary, it was darn sharp at the NY Auto Show. I think they've done a good deal to distinguish it from its lesser GM cousins. Upon further review of Saabs website, the interior is classy, and looks substantial. If I had the money, Id skip on the plain jane I6 that can be had in a $25,000 TrailBlazer, but that 300+ hp 5.3L GM engine sure is one strong beast, as long as you dont mind paying at the pumps. Upgraded safety equipment is competitive as well. Im still a bit confused though- Stabilitrak (or similar) will or will not be offered? And what is the pricing?

    Overall, it appears far better than I expected. Very handsome. Time will tell if it drives differently enough from the TBs/Envoys/Rainiers.

    ~alpha
  • blockislandguyblockislandguy Member Posts: 336
    Buddhabman, OK, but how do you get in touch with Hirsch? Web site?

    Speaking of traffic, here in New England at the first drop of snow, the municipal offices empty out and then an hour of so later (say, 3:30 PM) the private sector folks begin to leave. Thereafter there is a tremendous traffic jam with many accidents and everybody gets stuck in it. The folks whose name is on the building (however small or modest) and/or those that want to push the ball forward, tend to stay until 7PM and then just cruise home. Given where Saab is in the market place, I think that anyone with any drive shouldn't be leaving until 7PM or so. But then again if I ran Saab US, they would have had a twin turbo V6 AWD wagon that would run the wheels off the V70 XC, AllRoad, etc. and a 9-5 that would make the 5 Series people think twice before they fell for the crap about "Its the Ultimate Driving Machine so you will pay list price, javool?"

    Jchan2, given that you keep your cars for 5 years and 100,000 miles, maybe you are overly converned about resale values? If I were you, I would be more concerned with the cost of out of warranty repairs from 80K on out to the day that it is dragged off to auction. This might sway you toward the CTS and not being held captive by an import.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the ES330 and TL aren't too popular in my area, and both can be had around $31,000. The CTS' reliability concerns me though, as CR rates its reliability a poor.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Has anyone here actually seen the 9-7x in person? At the N.Y. auto show? How does the back end look? Can you see the spare tire hanging down like you can on all of the other versions? The chrome exhaust tips look nice at least. I also noticed that there are no side moldings along the doors - looks nice but won't this cause door dings to be more noticeable? I lot of Hondas come without the moldings as well.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    Here is the Hirsch Aero Stuff

    http://www.saab-performance.com/

    SAAB 9-5 AERO TAKES OFF WITH A HIRSCH PERFORMANCE PACKAGE

    Already known for its responsive performance, contemporary design and world-class safety, the sporty Saab 9-5 Aero gets a bit more extreme with the introduction of the Saab Performance by Hirsch enhancement package.

    Saab's Hirsch package for the 9-5 Aero gives the growing number of enthusiast customers a chance to express their individuality with significant engine and chassis upgrades and sporty styling treatments for the interior and exterior. Customers can mix and match options, as desired.

    The Saab Performance by Hirsch package upgrades the Trionic engine control module, turbocharger, intercooler and intake pipes to provide a 22 percent horsepower boost to the Saab 9-5 Aero's 2.3-liter turbo engine - from 250 to 305 hp. The torque also rises, from 258 to 309 lbs.-ft. These numbers would provide the Saab 9-5 Aero with 133 horsepower per liter of displacement - a feat unmatched not only by other luxury sports sedans and wagons, but also unmatched by most sports cars.

    Other enhancements include a full sports exhaust system, including dual tailpipes, performance brakes, a lowered chassis with sport-tuned suspension and 18-inch alloy wheels.

    Bystanders will know something other than the standard 9-5 Aero passed them when they see the sports mesh grille insert, front bumper assembly with integrated spoiler and unique contoured rear bumper that come with the Hirsch package. Plus, the 9-5 SportWagon gets a spoiler on the rear bridge, while the sedan gets a trunk-mounted lip spoiler.

    Inside, the Hirsch package offers sports leather trim for the seats and door inserts, brushed aluminum door handles, aluminum pedals, sport steering wheel and a unique finish for the main fascia, including the information and audio displays.

    The Saab Performance by Hirsch package for the 9-5 Aero is the result of the long-term agreement between Saab Automobile AB and Hirsch Performance AG, the Swiss company with extensive experience in customizing Saab cars.

    Saab Performance by Hirsch products are fully guaranteed by Saab and Hirsch.

    HIRSCH PERFORMANCE PACKAGE FOR THE SAAB 9-5:
    Upgrades of Trionic ECM, turbocharger, intercooler, intake pipe
    Horsepower boosted to 305 bhp max
    Torque increased to 309 lbs.-ft.
    Sports exhaust with dual pipes
    Performance brakes
    Lowered chassis with sports-tuned suspension
    18-inch alloy wheels
    Sports mesh grille insert
    New front bumper assembly with integrated spoiler
    Contoured rear bumper assembly with sculpted side sill extensions
    Roof-mounted rear bridge spoiler (wagon) or trunk-mounted lip spoiler (sedan)
    Sports leather interior, including seats and door inserts
    New interior fascia finish, including information and audio display
    Brushed aluminum interior door handles
    Aluminum pedals
    Sports steering wheel

    Here are some other parts/tuners offerings.

    http://www.nordicsaab.com/en_US/HomePage_1.chtml
    http://www.abbottracing.com/2003/index.htm
    http://engstrom.net/
    http://www.partsforsaabs.com/default.php?cPath=28

    Here is the 9-7X Official Media stuff:

    http://media.saab.com/member.jsp?country=1021298852094
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Hirsch upgrades are sweet! The 9-7x info is a password site, for media I believe.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    Check out the 9-7X button
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Isn't Hirsch for Europe only?
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    I don't think SAAB wants to pay to get it US smog certified. I wonder if Euro delivery would work though. ;-) There are other tuners like Nordic, Abbott Racing, just no warranty. It should be no worries as long as it's not drag raced. The benefit is realy for highway cruising roll-on power anyway.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    The 18 MPG highway rating expected for the 9-7X is awful. (ditto for the Rainier). You'd think GM would put their DOD system on this engine. If they can't do that, how about a bigger gas tank?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    A bigger gas tank will just allow you to drive a bit further, but it wont improve the MPG figures you bemoan.

    ~alpha
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    Out here in the western desert, a bigger gas tank is a nice thing to have. Sure, it adds a little weight, but we're talking about a pretty heavy vehicle here.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    18MPG!?! Whoa, that's really bad..
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    This is a heavy SUV, with your choice of a 275 hp or 300+ hp engine, and people are upset about 18 MPG. Get real! What did you expect? The frekin RAV4 weighs 3000 lbs, has 161 hp and still can only manage 27 MPG on the highway loop. I recommend not buying an SUV if you cant handle the MPG, its really not that difficult a proposition.

    ~alpha
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    I would be happy with 18 MPG average on a vehicle that size.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    with even 17 MPG on the 275 horsepower 9-7X.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    If it's 18MPG city then I'm fine. If it's 18MPG highway then I've got other choices...
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Really? Im curious, what are they? Specifically, which other (non-hybrid) SUVs with full range four wheel drive and greater than/at least 275 horsepower achieve better than 18 MPG on the highway loop?
    I cant think of any off the top of my head.

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'm willing to sacrifice horsepower for fuel economy. If it's 18 MPG City, I'm fine. If it's 18 MPG Highway, then I'm looking at the Lexus RX400H.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Exactly! I've driven 250HP SUVs that feel as powerful. I don't need all that HP anyways in an SUV.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    My point being, I dont see anying offering the names and figures of comparably sized and powered SUVs that return better MPG. Have realistic expectations is all Im saying.

    ~alpha
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    While the 9-7X is a great SUV, I still stand by the point that there are other 5-passenger luxury SUVs out there with AWD or 4WD that have similar HP ratings, but get better gas mileage. I was hoping the Vortec's VVT would improve it, but maybe these GM360s are just too heavy.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "While the 9-7X is a great SUV, I still stand by the point that there are other 5-passenger luxury SUVs out there with AWD or 4WD that have similar HP ratings, but get better gas mileage."

    Thats great. But nobody has named any yet... so what are they? The 4Runner has 30 to 40 less horsepower, similar torque figures to the 9-7X, and gets the same fuel economy.

    My point is that I dont think the power/economy tradeoff in the 9-7X is any different from competiting real SUVs (not crossovers).

    ~alpha
  • tomwtomw Member Posts: 31
    The current head of SAAB USA is a woman who was an Oldsmobile exec prior to her SAAB assignment.

    Judging by the badge-engineered 9-7 and the precipitous decline in quality of my 9-3ss compared to the 9-5 I had before (the 9-5 has quality approaching or meeting Asian standards of quality and reliability whereas the 9-3ss is purc GM -- way lower than Asian or European), SAAB must be where they're sending former Olds execs to oversee the decline and eventual extinction of SAAB.

    Trying to pawn-off low quality GM products and European products is a sure fire formula for eventual extinction.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    It takes energy to move the beef around. I will take the trade off if the vehicle has extra room and is a nice driver. All the suv's we are thinking about are not much better than this.

    Cadillac SRX AWD V6/V8
    Volvo XC90 T6 AWD
    Chevy Tahoe LT/Z71
    Nissan Pathfinder AWD
    Nissan Armada AWD
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'd suggest the Sequoia. The gas mileage is just as bad, but it has a better reliability record than your other choices on the list.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    I know they make great vehciles and super trucks. I just don't like the way they drive or handle. I also want a truck buiilt in the US or maybe Canada. Nissan-Armada & Pathfinder are made here in Mississippi, Cadillac-SRX/Chevrolet-Tahoe in Michagan or Ohio. Volvo is the only exception. I like the VW but I don't trust their ability to service their cars.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    is made in Indiana, is it not? And youve driven all Toyotas to know that you dont like the way they ride and handle? Interesting, seems like kind of a blanket statement to make. The RAV4 is probably the best handling SUV on the market. Perhaps you dont like the added safety afforded by Toyotas addition of VSC as standard on ALL SUVs for 2004? To each his own. Good luck with your choices.

    ~alpha
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    alpha01 - I have ridden in or test driven all the Toyota trucks except the Sequoia. I can say with authority I don't like the way they handle or ride. I am not saying they are bad, I just don't like the feel. RAV4 is nice but doesn't turn my crank. I think the Forrester or Mazda Tribute would feel better on a mountain road. I will try the Sequoia though, I think C&D compared it favorably to the Nissan Armada. I prefer the Nissan trucks to Toyota though.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I guess the Armada is the best choice for you in your case since you're not a Toyota fan. I don't have a preference when it comes to Toyota and Honda, I shop by price and who gives me the best deal.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2899&cat- egoryId=8
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    Nice pics and good review of the 9-2X

    Hopefully the 9-7 will get as favorable a review.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The red and blue colors on the 9-2X look really nice. The review sounded quite favorable. Hope the 9-7X gets as favorable reviews.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    any new info out there?
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    "Really? Im curious, what are they? Specifically, which other (non-hybrid) SUVs with full range four wheel drive and greater than/at least 275 horsepower achieve better than 18 MPG on the highway loop?
    I cant think of any off the top of my head.    "

    The VW Touareg with the V10 TDI leaps to my mind. EPA ratings at 17 mpg city, 23 mpg hwy, and that is with 310 HP and 550 lb-ft of torque.
  • prd2729prd2729 Member Posts: 4
    NO, you do not want a Sequoia turd. It gets worse gas mileage and is as ugly as they come...
  • prd2729prd2729 Member Posts: 4
    JCHAN, what are you going to pull with a Lexus RX330?? Not any weight, thats for sure...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    nothing really. That's why I bought a minivan. How many people out there tow boats with their luxury SUVs?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Kinda confusing conversation here, folks - the topic title is Saab 9-7X. Thanks!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    we have no new information at all on the 9-7X.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I guess this is news:

    Saab updated their USA site...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the website looks nice.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    It was noted that the new 9-7X website listed a prominent feature - "Fully Independent Suspension".

    This means they made some major mods to the TB frame to add the independent suspension. I have read that front and rear independent subframes can be bolted on to the TB main frame.

    Maybe they will make this into a decent handler in same mold as the SRX.

    Also check out more pics of the upcoming Saaburu
    9-6X / Tribeca.

    http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-shots-2004/S/subaru/trib- eca_page_4.html
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    remind me of the Porsche Cayenne in a way.
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