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Lincoln Aviator Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    First horror story we've heard here on the Aviator (or anywhere else, actually). The fit problems are really wierd. These buckets are usually sold gold on fit & finish, especially the body parts. Makes me wonder if yours was damaged in the shipping process or something. No way to prove that I suppose, but I've never seen anything like you're describing there. The frame on this car is as stiff as Al Gore on a Hannity & Combs interview, and it shouldn't be possible to tweak it enough even with a jack, to make the panels touch each other. The seat is about right - I don't even notice it anymore, but they do have some give in them and the motor will clunk as it changes positions and gears. Squeaks and rattles are odd too. I guess there's one in every makes batch, eh? Sorry about yours :(
  • kendall12kendall12 Member Posts: 2
    my 2003 aviator awd advanced track works great. When you are going 40mph, the light comes on says check advance track and the suv goes from 40mph to 20mph in 2 sec. I have only 4,500 miles has been to Hempstead lincoln 5 times. They say there is nothing wrong. And say i am the only one in america with this problem. They are no help. Call the 800 #, also no help. What can i do next?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, it is the first time I've heard of this issue, that much is true. When the dealer says you have no problem, that means they can't download an error code from the computer, unfortunately. I presume the car only does this occasionally, and never when they test drive it? I would suggest two things; 1) Ask the service manager if they'll give you a loaner car, and tell him to keep your car and drive it as much as he can until it does it to him. Then, he'll likely fix it as he'll be a believer. Or, 2), try another dealer if possible. Some of them are better than others, believe me.

    Above all, stay politely persistent. If you escalate this to anger (which I wouldn't blame you for), the dealer staff will shut down on you - as they get yelled at every day and just naturally defend against that. If you are nice, but persistent, they'll usually come around that you deserve special attention. It's too bad this is how you have to deal with it, but they're people too, and I've found this approach works best. Funny too, how a $20 bill slipped to the service advisor/manager will get you a ton of attention on your vehicle.
  • aa8qfaa8qf Member Posts: 34
    A bad suggestion, totally unnecessary, and a sad commentary - if you spend this much money on an automobile, dealership should bend over backwards to satisfy you.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Hey, no problem, don't do it. I'm just saying, I get incredible attention from my dealer, including free detailing about 4 times a year, and I appreciate it, so I tip the service writer. And amazingly, loaner cars are never a problem, neither is appointments or pickups at work, etc. Whatever works for you.
  • aa8qfaa8qf Member Posts: 34
    Giving someone a tip after they have provided you excellent service is much different from "slipping" someone a $20, expecting to get better or special treatment - that's just distasteful.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    In Vegas, slipping is a way of life.
  • kendall12kendall12 Member Posts: 2
    thank you, did give him $20. I have no problem doing that. It did help, And people who think, it was wrong they live in fantasy land
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That's right, pal. You tip a waiter after they have taken care of you - but if you tip someone in service prior, (which is done all the time in Vegas, and practically expected), you are guaranteed lots of attention, while everyone else waits.
  • aa8qfaa8qf Member Posts: 34
    I don't live in Vegas. I don't care to go to Vegas. I also don't live in Fantasy Land - just good old hard working, down-to-earth midwest. I'm glad slipping $20 is working for the both of you. Although you may see results, I still contend that it should not be necessary. What ever happened to taking your car in for warranty work and actually getting it repaired?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I wish it were the case, but in many parts of the country, it just doesn't work like it used to. Now, in Florida, where I have a home, things are much more as you describe. But not in Vegas anymore, or New York City, or L.A., or lots of places I've been. Look, YMMV, do what works for you.
  • mfentonmfenton Member Posts: 9
    I have an '04 Aviator that we have about 650 miles on and coming home today we heard kind of a howling sound coming from the rear. Could this be the whine everyone is talking about? If so, I am assumming I need to get it in to be check. Please advise
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The infamous whine only occurs between 55 and 65 mph or so and only with your foot on the gas. Either way get the dealer to check it.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yes, that's the "infamous" whine that akirby is talking about. But if your symptoms don't match those parameters, then you have the not quite so infamous "expansion valve" whistle or howl, in the rear A/C evaporator coil. Not a big problem to fix, your dealer can correct it, with a replacement.
  • mapletonmapleton Member Posts: 6
    Hi ho Hi ho off to the dispute settlement board I go.

    Yes that's right. I have had my Aviator in for transmission service 6 times within a year and a half. I now have over 40k miles on it and the problem still hasn't been resolved. My vehicle has been out of service for a total of 86 days since I purchased this vehicle. 59 days for the transmission problem.

    My transmission slips when the car is hot and primarily in stop and go situations. I also encounter slipping/engagement problems when switching from reverse to drive also when the vehicle has been running. This problem is not continual but intermittent and through all the times in service they have replaced the following: The solenoid body, pump bolts, pan gasket, stand pipe and o-rings. Still slipping. One time the service department wasn't able to duplicate the problem and one time their notes state that they were able to duplicate the problem but it only happened for 10 seconds. I don't care if it happens for 1 second fix it. I am to the point that I want out of the vehicle. The bad part is that if they would have replaced the transmission after the second or third visit I would have been satisfied that they were committed to their product and their customers but I am not the least bit satisfied.

    Does anyone have experience in dealing with the dispute settlement board and what was the outcome of your particular situation.

    Thanks,
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That definitely sucks. Have you tried a different dealer? Remember, Ford Motor Co. doesn't sell or repair your vehicle - independent dealers do. Ford would like to do both but the dealers won't permit it. It's hard to say whether the dealer or Ford is at fault here, but a different dealer MIGHT get different results either from being able to correctly diagnose the problem once and for all or to get factory assistance.
  • cornellpinoycornellpinoy Member Posts: 196
    For "big ticket" items like transmissions, Ford usually requires their dealers to do a cost comparison between repairing the component vs. replacing it in order to get reimbursed for the warranty claim, which is probably why in this case a replacement wasn't done right off the bat.
  • mapletonmapleton Member Posts: 6
    You know, I love the vehicle and I thought the dealership was doing everything they could to accomodate my issues. I still love getting in and turning on the a/c seats with the sunroof open and the radio on. I just can't see retaining a vehicle that I paid so much for when the problems I am having haven't been fixed correctly after all my visits to the dealership for service. I would really feel uncomfortable knowing that they fixed the vehicle and then what... 20k miles down the road when the extended warranty expires I am out of luck. I understand that there are certain restrictions on the dealership with respect to replacing major components but I have called Ford directly and have documented all those times when I have called to no avail. they still hadn't replaced the transmission after the 6th time in service for the same symptoms.
  • fmlcarlvrfmlcarlvr Member Posts: 2
    Any new resolutions or ideas on what the deal is with the shifty driver's seat on the Aviator? My husband notices it a lot more than I do (I think cause he weighs about 60lbs more). Also the display on the navigation/radio flickers around dusk. Is it just adjusting to the time of day and looking for the correct lighting?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The display does have an automatic setting and will adjust when the ambient light dims so that's most likely what's happening.

    As for the seats - they all do it. I had a 97 explorer that did it. Not sure why they haven't fixed it yet. I guess I'm used to it. I only notice it on quick stops and even then it doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm used to it. You could try adjusting the seat - that may make it less noticeable.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    the seats do all do it. It also doesn't bother me much - but my wife complains about it more.
  • aa8qfaa8qf Member Posts: 34
    In the "Lincoln Aviator" discussion, see posts 1368, 1377, 1378. This was my experience as well. Definitely not designed with your best interest in mind.
  • mongo1mongo1 Member Posts: 49
    Grettings all, and may this find you well. I just wanted to give an update on my 04 Ultimate. What a nice package. Just rolled over 3500 miles and I can only say I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before purchasing. Hooked up a little pop-up camper last weekend for the maiden tow. Pulled the 2000 lb. trailer like it wasn't even there. Everything is working as designed and I still can't get over the handling. That was one of the primary reasons I refused to even look at an S.U.V. Only two concerns: One, I do think the seating is a bit high for my tastes. I dislike having my eyes at the same level as the rearview mirror. I wonder how anyone over 6 foot copes with it? Two, I do wish I had gotten one with the dove grey interior. If you look at this parchment leather, it gets filthy. Finally, if you've gotten this far, a question. Has anyone out there purchased a transmission cooler for one of these? Lincoln doesn't carry one and I would be interested in any comments regarding same. Ant14? NVbanker? Thanks in advance. Keep em flying!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, the handling is great and yes, the seats are a bit higher than I would like and I'm only 5'11".

    We bought a silver one and my wife demanded the grey interior as she didn't like the tan. It's holding up fine.

    I think there are plenty of aftermarket coolers available if the lines are already there going to the radiator.
  • mongo1mongo1 Member Posts: 49
    Greetings Akirby, and may this find you well. Thanks for the quick response. Yes, after some search online I've found a couple of units designed for this transmission. I just need to decide whether a stacked tube or a finned tube would be better for my application. My wife and I intend to purchase a travel trailer in the near future. Something in the 5000 Lb. range with a 6500 Lb. GVWR rating. I'm thinking the stacked tube unit 12" X 12" should handle this with capacity to spare. Any thoughts? Thanks again.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sorry - don't know anything about tranny coolers but if it's designed for that application it should work fine.
  • mapletonmapleton Member Posts: 6
    I went to the dispute settlement board and won!!!
    They are taking back my Aviator and refunding my downpayment, trade in allowance and the total of payments made by me to my financial institution. Of course they are calculating mileage use of the vehicle as follows. purchase price of vehicle multiplied by 15531 ( mileage at first repair attempt) divided by 100,000. that works out to I think about 6600.00 or so. I will be getting a fair chunk of dough back. Too bad they are not going to compensate me for my valuable time and the garage floor damage from the leaking transmission.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sounds fair to me. What will you replace it with?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'd be throwing a party, you want to be further compensated for time and oil stains. You're not easy to please, are you....
  • mapletonmapleton Member Posts: 6
    I was Joking. I am totally pleased with the board decision. They definitely restored some of the confidence that I have lost in the Ford Motor Company. I will probably be getting a SAAB or Pontiac Grand Prix as a replacement. My wifes father used to be a GM exec so I will get the employee discount. I no longer get the Ford discount as my brother had quit a while ago.
  • dennisa3dennisa3 Member Posts: 5
    Have any of you used 89 Octane fuel in your Aviator? If so, what were the results?

    Have any of you equipped you Aviator with the standard (non option) radio with an XM satellite radio. If so how was the connection made, via RF?

    Thanks,

    Dennis
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Under the heading of 'Don't be such a cheapskate', I would have to say I accidently filled my Navigator up with 87 once. I didn't notice any difference. But my engineer friends tell me that the car is tuned to run on 91 Octane for optimum performance, power, economy and emissions, and running it on something else will cause it to compensate outside of normal parameters of operation, so that you'll probably get less mpg, costing you more net fuel in the long run. I'd use the 91. In fact I do. If you can't afford the premium gas, maybe you can't afford the premium car....well, you know......
  • dennisa3dennisa3 Member Posts: 5
    I will just skip past the obvious remark you made, I expected that. Disappointing, but expected.

    The point was not 87 but 89 octane. Very few gas stations around here offer 91 octane fuel, they offer 87, 89 and 93. I have been using 93 octane, but the cost is starting to make me notice and the extra octane and $$ are just going out the tail pipe. I was hoping for a more technical answer. Do the 2 octane points really make a difference? I would expect the computer and anti-knock sensors to deal with this, but I am not powerplant engineer.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The cost difference between 89 and 93 is $0.10/gallon (in Atlanta). It doesn't matter whether Premium is $1.49 or $2.09, the difference is still $0.10/gallon which equates to less than $2 per fillup or about $100 per year.

    Will the PCM compensate for the lower octane? Yes. You may not notice the power loss but your fuel mileage may also drop causing you to use more fuel which would negate at least part if not all of the $2 you just saved. In fact, it could actually be more expensive to run 89 if your mileage drops by just 10%.

    I say penny wise, pound foolish.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Very few gas stations around here offer 91 octane fuel, they offer 87, 89 and 93."

    Well, you might have mentioned that, and I wouldn't have though you were being cheap, I would have understood your point with more clarity. Otherwise, what was I to think?

    I agree with akirby, and I think I essentially said the same.

    Will the extra 2 octane points in the 93 get you anything? Maybe. The PCM may advance the timing a little and give you a little more power, or a little more mileage out of it. You may not be wasting as much money as you think. Here's what you should do, in my opinion.

    Run 500 miles on the 89 Octane exclusively and check the computer for the mileage, recording the readout after each fillup. Then do the same on the 93. IF there's a noticeable difference, you'll have data with which to decide what to do, and if you'll save any money doing it. In the meantime, for the duration of the test, you'll average the price of 91 octane.
  • dennisa3dennisa3 Member Posts: 5
    Nvbanker and AKirby,

    Thank you for your advice and you make a good point. I had considered that there might be a performance degradation by using the 89 octane fuel, but I had not tried it yet. On my last vehicle the dealer said the higher octane was a waste of money since as you pointed out the engine is optimized for 91 octane.

    Good idea for the test, I just did not want to put a tank of 89 in it and listen to it rattle, but I might try it since you did not see a big problem with the accidental 87 fill up.

    When the 93 octane fuel hit $2.11 here, I took notice. The real issue is I tend to drive the Aviator a lot, much nicer ride than our Volvo or my past vehicles, so the combination of slightly worse mileage (than my last car) and high fuel cost really became apparent when the bill arrived.

    Thanks again.

    Dennis
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Dennis - even though 93 octane has gone up to $2.11 per gallon the extra cost for 93 versus 89 is still only ten cents - same as it has been for the last several years. In fact the cost difference is actually the lowest it has been in years if you look at it as a percentage of the total fuel cost - around 4.7% now. When premium was $1.50 it was a 6.7% difference.

    The point is you're trying to save $2/week here. You could save 3 times that much just by eating a bologna sandwich for lunch one day instead of eating out. Or you could save that much by cutting out two sodas per week. Or drinking tap water instead of bottled water. etc. etc. etc.
  • njcatlovernjcatlover Member Posts: 7
    I have been going through the messages here since about 8:30 this morning: I have a very OLD computer (Win95) with 28/8 modem so to look at one thread or so takes HOURS!!!!
  • njcatlovernjcatlover Member Posts: 7
    Well, my husband has walked out on me and the kids after 17 years of marriage :(
    My "parting gift" is that I get to purchase a new vehicle before he leaves to replace my Ford Explorer. It was an older model that accelerated on its own, going up to 100 mph before I panicked, hit the brakes, & caused it to flip over 7 or 8 times.
    I mention these two things because A:) I dont TRUST vehicles as I did before and want something I can feel safe in and B:)I dont have that "Manly advice" you can get from your husband about which vehicle to pick-LOL.
    I've picked through many old threads here as fast as my VERY OLD COMPUTER & MODEM will allow but cant seem to find a "great" reason to pick the Aviator or Navigator over each other??
    I see "whining noise" mentioned on the Aviator, not enough "Power" on the Navigator.....

    It would be nice to have a quiet vehicle. I am very short, myself, only have two kids, and now, no husband, so I dont NEED the larger Navigator....

    If my finances will allow either a 2004 Aviator or a 2003-2004 Navigator is there any definitive reason to favor one over another?

    Are there many features that are not in the Aviator that make the Navigator more "worthwhile?"

    I obviously would love the Roll Stability feature because I have no desire to watch the world go upside down again but it seems that feature is hard to find?

    Lastly, and this question may yell out "Car Ignorance" but why is it that the MSRP for the 2005 Aviators is not much more than the 2004?

    Thank you in advance for your help. I hope someone can post just the right remark to help me make a decision one way or the other. I just know they are both GORGEOUS on the inside and if I need to replace my car I want to be looking at that Gorgeous polished Nickel!!!

    Barbara
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I'm not positive but there are a few things that I miss on the Aviator that I think are available on the Navigator (I have them on my Lincoln LS):

    Automatic wipers
    Electrically adjustable seat backs and steering wheel

    The Navigator also gives you retractable running boards (or they used to) which is either a positive or a negative depending on your point of view. It also has a power rear liftgate and third row folding seat which is nice but it's also one more thing to go wrong (and some have).

    I like the smaller size of the Aviator and the 2nd row bench seats. It has plenty of power (as does the Navigator - not sure where you heard that comment) and rides great.

    You can't go wrong with either one, so just drive them, make note of the differences above and just see which one you like better.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    My wife would tell you the Navigator is just too big - I prefer the size myself, but admit, the Aviator is "easier" to get in and out of and probably a little easier to drive too. For your "needs", the Aviator sounds perfect to me, and I think you'd love it. But I agree with akirby, (as I usually do), drive 'em both, and buy the one you seem to enjoy the most. They're both excellent vehicles.
  • mapletonmapleton Member Posts: 6
    Be very leery on the Aviator if you drive a significant number of miles. I am expecting the refund from my lemon any day now. The funny thing is that the service manager at my dealership is now getting issues with the trans on a regular basis. Go figure. I guess since I drive a lot it made sense that my Aviator would get the problem early.

    Mike.
  • raul69raul69 Member Posts: 28
    I am experiencing heavy front end shaking in my 2003 aviator. This happens all the time when I apply the break while I am on a freeway going downhill. I experience heavy shaking and rattling in the front end and especially the steering wheel. Has anyone experienced this? I am taking my AVi to the dealer Monday to get this checked and hoefully corrected. I am thinking its maybe an alignment or rotor disc problem?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sounds like you have a wheel out of balance and/or warped brake rotors. Usually not hard to fix. Has anyone other than the dealer tightened the lug nuts on the front wheels? Uneven torqe on the lug nuts will warp a Ford rotor in a heartbeat.
  • quemfalaquemfala Member Posts: 107
    I have mentioned this before, but here's my take on "economizing" -- hi-test (93) vs. mid-range (89). Even if I agree that the "savings" don't amount to a whole lot-- there's that old "principal of the thing" that's at work. I've done this -- 1/2 tank of 89 octane and 1/2 tank of 93. Unless my math is off (an that's quite possible since I flunked it all, way back then) the tank is now filled with 91 octane!

    See, that way there's the feeling of having "beat" the system.

    Luck
    Life's Better at the Beach!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That should work!
  • raul69raul69 Member Posts: 28
    No, only the dealership has put a hand on my AVi since I purchased it in 2003. In fact this shaking went on before I took it in for its first 5K service. So I will have them look for a warped rotor or tire inbalance. Thanks for your help.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sometimes the dealers are the worst offenders. They should be able to fix it either way.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    In most dealerships, there's some old guy named "Merlin", or "Ernie" or "Sherm" or something, who's grumpy, older than dirt, smokes too much, doesn't talk much, hates diagnostics, and prefers a broomstick to a computer every time, who can balance that truck better than everybody else there. That's who you need to ask to have work on your Aviator. He'll get it right. That's why they keep him around. He doesn't give a rip about the error code, either.
  • dennisa3dennisa3 Member Posts: 5
    A coworker suggeted that also, thanks for the reply. I might try that.
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