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Lincoln Aviator Maintenance and Repair
Problems with your Aviator? Post them here and share any solutions with other TH members.
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I just dropped my 2003 Avi off at the dealer to fix 2 problems. My first problem was that the seat track was not holding the seat in place well enough so that when I pressed the accelerator (great pickup) I could feel the subtle shift back. My second problem was a wierd sound like something wasn't tightened down in the drivers side dash, I think on the left side of the steering wheel. I will post when I hopefully get the car back on Monday.
BTW, if you want to really appreciate your Avi, drop it off for service and leave in a Mercury Sable. I hate my rental. I want my car back.
H.
Brianhd1000@comcast.net
My brand new Aviator blows cold air (a 40-50 degree measured difference)out of the side window de-misters and out the defroster after the interior temperature reaches the set temperature and stabilizes. This is a major problem as the cold temps in MN mean that I have frozen hands and left knee while my feet are smoking hot.
So here is my question for all of you...when you start your Aviator on a cold morning, and the system is set to AUTO, do you have hot air coming out the defroster vent as well as the floor vents? Hot air ONLY blows out of the floor vents on mine in AUTO mode. There is no air, hot or cold coming from my defroster vent after the heater kicks in when in the AUTO mode.
If I set the mode to defrost, I get hot air, but only until the temp gets close to the set temp, then is goes to pure cold again.
Any thoughts? The dealer has called in a factory field engineer to try to diagnose.
Thanks for any help/ideas!
I'm 2 days from being able to start the Lemon Law process in Florida (1 day after tomorrow). All this said, everytime I get in my Aviator I love it (until I hear that hum and the seat shifts).
Don't know what my ranting will do, but I feel better knowing I'm not alone. I'll mention the cold air thing tomorrow, but we're supposed to be around 76F tomorrow and there is no way they'll just believe me, they'll want to recreate. In general, I hate my dealer but still have an affection for my car!
2) I think the HVAC is designed to blow relatively cool air on the side windows by design. Not sure. I have a home in Florida too, it's not a problem, but it would be a problem if it was blowing hot air there, and I'm sweating!
One last thought - I'm wondering if the outside cooling fan is designed to run fast in cold weather as well as hot, to move air over the condensor, as the A/C works in cold weather to dehumidify your register air? As I stated elsewhere, they all have done it for 10 years. There's gotta be a reason.
The rear end thing is just awful.
I've got a 2001 LS. Love the car except for one thing: If I set the climate control on auto, when it's colder outside than in, the climate control system blows hot air out the center stack, luke warm air out the driver and passenger vents and cold air out the little demister vents for the windows. I could almost live with it if the cold air from the demister didn't bounce off the window and hit the left side of my face. I've measured values like these:
Center Stack vents = 110 degrees
Left/right passenger vents = 82 degrees
Left/right demisters = 60 degrees
I have had the dealer look at it. Results: Seems OK to us. I had the regional rep look at it, he measured it while I watched. His numbers were appx those I've listed above. He contacted Ford engineering. They said those numbers are 'within spec'. I said -BULL- . He was going to check some more. Haven't heard from him or been able to contact him since.
Am I a happy Lincoln owner? Actually, yes. This is the only issue that bothers me. But it really tees me that they won't do anything about this. Dealer service actually said if they pulled out the dash to try to fix this, they'd probably screw it up putting it back together. There's a confidence builder, huh?
I would like to add two things: First, there is a way to operate the climate uncontrolled system so that it works - for me, YMMV. What I do now is I set it on auto and set the temp when I start up the car. This will keep the system from blowing any air til the engine warms up. At that point, the hot/warm air flow is pretty efficient for a while. Then at some point, I'll notice the arctic blast on my left cheek, or I'll just remember to switch from auto to the heat/vent setting. This keeps any air from being directed thru the demisters or defrosters and all is well. Usually have to manually adjust the fan too.
Second - if you want to push and fight this issue, I'm with you. There is definitely a problem. Maybe only a subset of cars, but something is amiss. If anyone else has this issue, let's join forces.
George
PS: One more thing. I've been in the market for another vehicle. Not to replace the LS, but in addition. I love the Aviator and thought that would be the ticket. But when I brought the whole family and we drove it, it was just too small for all of us. It looks like we'll end up with a Navigator. But when I drove the Aviator, I checked the climate control system for the problem you and I have - and this Aviator had it as well. I checked the Nav I test drove too - it did NOT exhibit this problem. I hope the one I'm buying won't either. Can't fnd out til it gets here - its a dealer swap.
Happy Holidays
Thanks for the note, though it is rather distressing that this is an issue across models. I have verified that all Aviators are showing the same issue. Here in the north, it is a serious safety issue as the windshield does not stay warm enough to keep mild ice accumulations clear while driving. It is really unpleasant to be in the vehicle for any length of time. I have to go to manual modes which defeats the whole point of automatic climate control.
Fortunately, the dealer and mechanics are together with me on this one and, I have two dealers on my side as I bought the car 150 miles from home from a friend and am having the thing serviced at a local dealer.
I was with the mechanic when he called the Ford "tech line" and they said that "spec" is only a 10-15 degree difference. I think they have a design issue on their hands and don't want to fess up to it.
I have a Ford field engineer set to look at it on the 7th of January when it should be good and cold outside. I'm going to hover over him like a hawk.
It really is a shame since the vehicle is great in all other aspects. If it does not get resolved, I may go the Lemon Law route myself as it is intolerable to have this situation in a state like Minnesota with a vehicle that has a $53K sticker price. My wife swore she would NEVER buy another Lincoln based on the our experience with a new 1990 Continental. I talked her into this one and will likely pay for the decision for the rest of my life...
Jace
I agree, it's really intolerable to have an automatic climate control system that doesn't work. I've had several discussions with my service advisor about this. For a while, he tried to tell me that the outside and demister vents are cooler cause they're farther from the heater! Laws of physics he says. So I ask him, do these same laws of physics apply to my 200,000 mile 1986 Jeep Cherokee whose heater puts hot air out of all it's vents? Amazing the stories they'll tell.
I truly hope they're able to find something on your Aviator. I've never been able to confirm that this is a design problem. I'm a member of the Lincoln LS owners club and posed the question to all the members. Only 2 others complained they had this issue.
One thing's for certain though. You and I have it and it's not within any resonable spec.
My speculation is that the blend doors somehow don't have the proper travel in our situation and instead of letting hot air into the defroster/demister vents, they're funneling outside air. WHat a disaster in Minnesota! Just a major inconvenince for me.
Good luck and keep the forum informed please. Happy Holidays
george
There evidently is a design flaw in the system that is indemic in this model. My Navigator doesn't do it. I wonder, is this a Visteon unit?
I'll post what happens next when appropriate.
jace
If the above is correct, should we purchase?
If we do purchase, should we expect better pricing (currently quoting 38,400 for luxury model including taxes, with DVD ent. package before trade. We have not "negotiated" yet)?
Do you know how this would affect resale value? We typically keep our vehicles for approx. 7 years.
I do love this vehicle, have test drove. Also drove Explorer (BIG difference in feel/aesthetics ). My husband is concerned about the talk of the truck being discontinued and what that could mean in the future.
Sorry if this has been asked before. I did post this also on the main board.
Thanks.
i m not sure how long...this current platform has been around .ie explorer..i d guess maybe 2000.
so maybe 2005 might be a reasonable time for it to end for aviator..and maybe the explorer will use a new platform too at that time around 2005 or so?
i don t see that this would negatively affect resale value, especially for someone keeping a vehicle for seven years.
i like that it is based on ladder frame..with front and rear ind suspension....many crossover vehicles feel too minivanish to me.
enjoying the vehicle..and keeping it a long time will give you good value.
in fact...i could imagine it positively affecting resale value for those wanting a premium suv with towing capacity at this midsize level.
i have 2003 with everything except chrome wheels
i love it.
steering and ride is incredible
no problems with it.
8000 miles.
Wish me luck with the negotiating process, wish it didn't have to be such a game of back and forth.:)
Thanks again.
I also seem to have a problem with a VERY stiff ride. Again, all my passengers mention this as well and again the dealer says they see no issue.
Any body else have a ride issue?
Carnuch
Through the persistence of a very good service manager who refused to accept the simple "within spec" baloney from Ford, and a forthright Field Service Engineer who also confirmed the problem, we got Ford to authorize a one-off custom repair attempt.
Yesterday, I had the entire dash of my Aviator removed and both the mechanic and Field Service Engineer have located the source of the problem with the climate control. Simply, anytime the system begins to reach it's set temp, the design of the internal heater plenum allows frigid air to blow right past where the air would normally be mixed and warmed. Instead it is shot right on out through the demisters. In other words, IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN DEFECT THAT WE HAVE NOW EMPIRICALLY VERIFIED!
Unfortunately, after many tries we could not find a fix for this in the field.
The big problem however, is that Ford Climate Control engineering refuses to acknowledge that it is a big issue and still says it is "within spec". It is not. Let them drive one in MN today where it is -22 with a -55 windchill! Everyone that has this issue MUST get a Field Service Engineer involved and has got to complain like crazy to Ford by threatening to have them buy back the vehicle in order for them to get their Climate Control engineers to work on a valid fix.
To replicate the problem, put it on AUTO or the floor only direction. If you put the system into the bi/level mode the demisters shut off and it will stay warmer, but still not great.
My dealer has been fabulous but even they can't resolve something that is engineered from the factory/sub assembly supplier incorrectly.
We all have to be forceful and not accept anything less that a full fix, and FAST.
The Lincoln Hot Line will get back to you, and tell you it's normal, and refer you to your dealer for further help. You'll be thrilled.
When I decided I needed to replace my other vehicle, I drove both the Aviator and the Navigator. I carefully tested the Climate system in both vehicles and the Nav's system worked just great (as did my 1993 Mark8) but the '03 Aviator I drove acted just like my LS. Do they share the same Climate system? I bet. I do know that members of the LS owners club were polled and only a few others noted their LS having this problem.
I found the original post by jacebeck to be very interesting. What they appeared to find, that unheated air was being directed out the demisters and defroster, is exactly what I believed the probelm is. I remain unconvinced it is a design problem though because, if it was, everybody would be complaining about it and that's simply not the case. It still seems to me that it has to be something, probably IMHO, a blend door, that is not working properly.
My dealer service refused to look behind my dash, saying they'd probably do more harm than good. I couldn't come up with a response to that!
I'd like to pursue it further, but my vehicle is 3 years old now. Doubt I could get a lemon law at this point. Besides, I love everything else about the car. I have tried coercion on the Regional guy, but that only causes him not to return my calls.
I really empathinze with you guys. If I lived up North ... I can't say what I'd do.
Would anyone accept 50 degree air from half of the furnace vents in their home, while the vents in the other rooms blow 110 degrees??? NO.
I was told yesterday that they acknowledge there is a problem and they are working on a fix, but there is no time frame for the fix.
I spoke with Dr. Tom Geida, the former head of climate engineering at Ford...now at Visteon. It is not normal and certainly NOT WITHIN SPEC.
yeah right
Complain to Lincoln customer service and ask to have the issue escalated...they finally admitted that there is a problem as I stated above. Push them for a date that they will get it fixed and begin the Dispute Process. There may be more in your owners manual (which is on the Lincoln owners website) to fill you in on the process.
Check out this link : http://www.ott.doe.gov/coolcar/strategies.html
or this one:
http://www.cfdreview.com/application/02/08/30/1422240.shtml
or this:
http://www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2001-01-0588.pdf
The work described on these sites would not be done if they simply want to blow frigid, not cool or cold, air on your upper torso.
Go get a Ranier if they work better for you, that's why we have different brands. The first year Aviators have been more trouble prone than a normal Ford product is, but GM has never shown me anything to take me away yet. If I were to buy something other than Ford, it would be Toyota/Lexus. Certainly not GM.