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Comments
My dealership here in Canada only has the gas version. Would it drive much different than the HH version?
Toyota's website says the '08 HH can tow only 3500-lb, while the gas Highlander can tow 5000-lb max. Looks like early reviews and reports were mixing the gas version with the hybrid version.
Looking forward to all your comments!
They have one showing as arriving between 10/23-10/30. They said that what they were told is Toyota is sending
one to each dealer, and then going to start filling the orders and allocations.
I have no idea if he means every dealer in the US or in this region (Nebraska). He did say it just popped up on their screens a couple of days ago and shows the vehicle en route to the dealership (which he says means it cleared the port and has all the bells and whistles installed).
He also warned me that even though this was on the way the next allocations could be 2-4 weeks out.
I have called 4-6 dealers around here and the message is fairly consistent- they don't know anything (or they are all very good at keeping things quiet).
Cheers
It appears that in the initial shipment there are 233 vehicles inbound to the 3 WC ports and to NY/NJ. The WC vessel(s?) are due around 10/15-20 and the NY vessel is due 10/20-24. The Midwest orders are coming in through the Port of Portland.
There are about 1250 dealers so it's not unusual that most don't have any info yet.
"My Computer is showing that the Hybrid Highlander should arrive at my dealer sometime between the 18th and 24th. My boss's want to keep it here for a couple of days so that everyone on the waiting list has time to come in and see it before you take delivery. "
the hybrids are there for the bay area atleast. A Limited
with Nav and Rear DVD and some minor options turns
out to be 47,500 MSRP! This is no longer in the normal price
range of a non-luxury brand. I do not know how they
plan to position this vehicle for the middle class.
Recently a friend of mine bought a Pilot EX-L for 31K with
Nav and DVD. Now, I am willing to pay some premium for
a hybrid but 15K is just not acceptable even after
attaching some $ value to "going green".
A HH basic, no leather and only a few options is over $40K and it only comes in ugly colors. I will have to set my sights lower.
Take a look at the Ford Escape Hybrid, they are under 30K.
Yup, that is the only reason I'm not driving one today. But you have to decide if it is worth 14K to get this on a HH? I drove a 2003 CR-V for several years without stability control, and never had any issues.
I'll have to link a picture to it when I get home.
(Bellevue, Washington)
I've been watching dealer inventories in the bay area since the gas engine Highlanders came out. They do not appear to be selling well. I have never seen one on the road. Right now there are just a few HiHys available in the area. I'm hoping that by waiting 2 or 3 months we will see substantial discounts offered on the Hybrid.
It was, of course, very smooth and refined and, to me, rode the same as the ICE version. I did try the Economy mode and you could really feel the difference. It didn't turn it into a total snail, but it definitely limited the acceleration rate of the vehicle. It will be fun to see mileage comparisons with it enabled for a tank or two against having it disabled.
The vehicle does have LED tail lamps according to the dealer, although I didn't visually verify this. They are different than the ICE's tail lamps. They have a clear lens w/amber bulb for the turn signal as opposed to the amber lens on the ICE version. There are also some horizontal, frosted stripes across the backup lamps. The hybrid has a different grill, but I didn't think it was any better or any worse that the one on the ICE, just different. On the hybrids, where the Limited or Sport emblem normally goes, it says Hybrid. The Limited badge is on the lower right side of the tailgate along with the HSD logo. Both the base and Limited versions had the power tailgate, which I don't recall seeing in the brochure, but I may have just forgotten about this.
I think it looks like a great vehicle overall with mild to tepid styling, but it is certainly very expensive! The base model, as equipped for this region, is about $38,000. A 'regular' Limited is $43,000 and a loaded Limited is about $47,000!!! Yikes! This puts a lot of other luxury SUVs/CUVs at considerably less than 'just a regular Toyota.' And even the Costco discount is only $300 below MSRP, so little to no help there.
Oh, and the dealership where I test drove the hybrid got four of them in, but they were all for the dealer to use as loaners, so were not for sale. This really strikes me as rather a slap in the face to potential customers for a very limited production vehicle that's just being introduced. Oh well.
They also showed me what was coming in for next month and there were only two more which were both customer orders. The earliest anything might be available is December, but they have a waiting list that they'll go through in order if anything is available for sale. The salesman said realistically, it'll likely be February or so before anything could be purchased without ordering it ahead of time.
And finally, the vehicle that I drove was the Iced Amethyst color which was very attractive, IMHO. Very similar to a pale version of the Waveline Pearl, with just a bit of a greyish tone to it.
The ICE version does not have the drive-by-wire system called VDIM. The hybrid version does. The price difference is not as simple as hybrid equipment vs gas-engine equipment.
Not all luxury class SUV's offer similar systems. As of now, it seems BMW, Mercedes, Acura and Lexus are the only ones offering similar systems. Toyota's VDIM emphasizes safe handling performance, not push-the-envelope performance.
Our 2006 HH has it and we are impressed by what it can do. Taking a sudden turn at highway speed, the car knows to slow just enough to make the turn and resume preset speed. Very smooth and barely discernible. It cannot beat physics, so don't do this at 40-MPH around a flat 90-deg turn. Within reason though, it almost takes care of driving around these curves all by itself. We like this added safety in this car.
Of course, don't forget the better emission rating and the ECON mode. Gas is back up to $3.50 a gallon where we live
Still, $47K is a huge investment. Ouch!
Good luck with your research.
The price difference between similarly equipped Limiteds ( Hybrid vs. ICE) is running aboutt $5,300, so it's really a tough decision. The rising gas prices and forecast of $4.00/gallon in 2008 help a bit. I guess it really boils down to how much you like it and are willing to pay for the technology.
I did check on the taillights and they are NOT LEDs. Sigh. I don't know why I like them so much, but a vehicle this expensive should have them! Especially when the prior model had them and the regular Camry an RAV4 have them, too!
I did find a Hybrid Limited with everything but Nav and RES, just like I want, in a color that I like, the Iced Amethyst Mica, at another dealership and am taking a serious look at it. It was already sold, but the folks changed their mind and went with the base model Hybrid due to the pricing.
The only difference that I am aware of is that the HH has electric power stearing which will be used by VDIM to actively RESIST the driver turning the stearing wheel in a direction that would exacerbate an over or understearing condition.
Last I looked in 2006, there was a marked difference between VSC/Trac and VDIM.
VSC/Trac is loosely defined as a "passive" safety system that activates only when events are in progress. Tires have lost traction, or vehicle is already leaning past certain safe points.
VDIM is loosely defined as a "predictive" system above 25-MPH. It calculates and anticipates vehicle dynamics and acts to counter problems "before" they occur. At or below 25-MPH, it reverts back to normal VSC/Trac.
I do not believe a normal VSC/Trac system will slow down automatically as it begins a turn at highway speed, as ours did, and then automatically picks up speed again as it exits the turn. All the while, I just work the steering and leave the speed in CRUISE. The car automatically did exactly what I would do with my foot negotiating that turn.
Again, my info is at least one year old now, so the 2007 ICE version may already have VDIM type system. The Toyota site will certainly point that out.
The importance, value, in VSC/trac or VDIM is reactive in the case of sudden loss of traction due to a quick, unexpected/unforeseen, change in roadbed adhesion, wet, black ice, etc.
I find myself more than satisfactory for the "predictive" stuff.
It could be said that the VDIM 'predicts' that certain drivers will panic and turn right when the the back end is whipping around to the left. This is the coupling of the EPS to the VSC/TRAC.
We frequently travel HWY 129 from 101 to Watsonville on the coast of Central CA. There are many curves and the one I am describing is a sneaky sharp climbing curve just under a railway bridge. This is so people familiar with that HWY know precisely what I am describing.
The HH, set to CRUISE at 55 MPH, upon sensing my steering to the LEFT (south) as it enters the curve, reduces speed smoothly to 50-51 MPH, makes the climb, lets me turn back RIGHT (west) and smoothly accelerates to preset CRUISE speed. I do not have to work the brakes, nor work the accelerator, nor touch the CRUISE controls. I only have to steer. There was no funny feeling in the steering either. The whole experience was smooth as silk, not too slow, not too fast, no sense of excessive loss of speed, the car just simply "zip" through that curve automatically at perfect speed. I definitely am NOT suggesting any HH owner try this deliberately at high speed but that was what happened.
Can a VSC/TRAC system do that? I do not know. Is it unique to VDIM? Given what khdspyder says, I think it is.
I understand how VSC works and how TRAC works, but they normally put on brakes and cut power to maintain course. I did not know that they can also reduce and resume speed as I have described. I also did not know that they can act before anything happens. I definitely can be totally wrong on this, do feel free to correct.
As Khdspyder wrote, I think this VDIM thing can easily calculate several vectors based on speed, steering angle and yaw and whatever other sensors it may have. If it detects possible onset a VSC event, before it happens, it can proact by dropping speed if that is necessary or apply brakes or manage steering or all three in some combination.
May be "predictive" is too strong a word, may be "anticipate within limits" is more appropriate?
Anyway, not sure it is worth hashing over the merit of having or not having such a system. I lived without it for 40 years, including years in Michigan's snow storms, never crashed once yet; knock on wood. I was just pointing out to those researching the car that when comparing the gas engine version to the HH version, look into VDIM because it does add some to the cost.
Still, $47K for the '08 version? With moderate changes only? No towing power increase, no significant mileage increase and no emission rating increase? Ouch! That's getting expensive. Must be our weak dollars.
OK, got to run. Have a good year y'all, we are off to Michigan in our HH! We are going to hit Reno, Salt Lake, Jackson, Laramie, may be a side trip to the Dakotas, then make a beeline for Flint and then upper Peninsula. Looking for a nice snowy white Christmas!
An early happy holidays to you all!
Can I get adaptive cruise control with the new 2008 Toyota Highlander Hybrid?
I would think the opposite. The system reacts to traffic, which is not smooth by any means. Thus it might well reduce MPG when compared to careful (but courteous) driving.
The vehicle is not responding to the wheel turning, it is responding to the lean of the vehicle as you go into the turn.
If it were simply the wheel turn, then the cruise control would slow you down when you moved to the left lane to pass a truck - hardly the desired operation when passing!
First, this is clearly a REACTIVE effort.
And VDIM is used across the product line whereas only the vehicles with electric stearing could have this implementation.
"..reduces speed smoothly to 50-51 MPH, makes the climb,..."
The CC's reaction to a "climb" is always delayed with respect to our own "view" of the road ahead, it must wait for the vehicle's speed to decline before reacting.
In order for VDIM to react to the vehicle "leaning" it must have sensors to indicate same, it does not. It does have "yaw" sensors which might be used for this but typically is not.
I'm not sure what to call them, but the vehicle senses when lateral force is being applied in a turn, if I understand stability control correctly, and takes action to ensure that the vehicle does not go out of control. From what people are saying here, that includes reducing the speed until the vehicle determines that the turn is complete.
Not necessarily.
Probably only if the lateral forces are considered extreme even for a high traction roadbed surface, an exceedingly tight turn, or an accelerating TIGHT turn, for instance.
VSC relies on two sensors, mostly, a stearing wheel directional position sensor, and a yaw sensor. Along with roadspeed these are used to determine if the vehicle is following the course, "line" set by the stearing wheel sensor.
If the rear end "drifts" "out" in a tight turn, over-stearing, the VSC will react by braking the front wheel on the outside of the turn to create a moment counter to the "drift". Should the brakes be already applied it will "unbrake" the inside front wheel.
For plowing, under-stearing, my '01 AWD RX300 brakes both rear wheels as an aid in slowing theh RX in hope of regaining (enough) front wheel traction.
I have seen no mention of dethrottling for VSC circumstances. But I would think it would be unsafe to do so for a "plowing" FWD or an overstearing RWD unless the throttle opening is considering severe enough to be, itself, the causative factor.
EFI fuel cut..??