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Here is an attachment of an article in the Chicago Sun-Times. Apparently it is the battery life , as it replaces the tachometer.
Good article:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/padgett/car-news-nina26.html
The charge-level indicator is on the Energy Monitor screen of the Multi-Display. Within the battery there, you'll see bars appear and disappear as well as change color.
JOHN
Everyone, as articles relating to the HH are discovered please continue posting links to them in this discussion.
Will the car have an auxiliary electric heater (for the interior) since the V6 may not be running that much during in-town traffic?
Thanks for any insight into this.
Gill
Charge capacity is reduced.
Peak power is actually INCREASED due to the cold, since keeping the pack from overheating is a non-issue.
My Prius just laughed at the -18F temperature last week. Startup was instant and heat came surprisingly fast (the thermal retention system is partly responsible for that, something that would make any traditional vehicle jealous).
> Is there anyway to warm up the V6 engine manually,
> or will it only start up when the engine computer
> decides it's needed?
Since heat is also needed for the emissions system, you will never have to concern yourself about availability. The computer will always see to it that it is available.
> Will the car have an auxiliary electric heater
The Prius does. But since the system does such a good job with heat management, not much secondary heat is needed. The coolant from the engine feeds the heater-core for quite awhile, allowing the engine to remain off. But then when it does cool off, the engine just automatically restarts again.
My -13F photos last week (on my website) were proof that there's lots more heat than you need. Sitting there snapping away with the camera, I eventually need turn the heater onto the lowest setting to keep from roasting.
JOHN
Thanks
Don Luce
You'll probably get a state tax credit as well. In Georgia, it was $1000 up until this year, but has been dropped to $500 for 2004.
So with the tax credit, the $3000 premium is basically a wash, and Toyota knows it.
A lot of people I know down here think that a hybrid is strictly for tree huggers. I'm hardly one of those, but from a strictly economic sense, a hybrid SUV is perfect. With a growing family, I couldn't justify the Prius or Civic, and my long commute necessitates a comfortable ride. I'm wavering between the HL and the Lexus, and am interested to see what the pricing will be.
It is actually only a DEDUCTION, which for most people translates to just a few hundred dollars.
> my long commute necessitates a comfortable ride
That's the first time I've seen anyone associate the word "comfort" with SUV. Why did you choose that particular adjective?
JOHN
Edited to say: I didn't realize this discussion was in the beginnig of the forum! And the website does say it tows 3500lbs.
How about another question....do you think the Escape can tow more than 1000lbs as a hybrid? The escape is a lot cheaper than the HL......it's really about $30k to start? I didn't realize that HL cost that much.
Furthermore, I'm assuming any major repair, such as to the electric system, battery pack, etc would be brought back to the dealer at exorbitant costs to the consumer. Again, I'm making the assumption that run-of-the-mill auto shops would have no clue about fixing what would be "computer-based" problems.
Bottom line: is it worth the hassle and cost (more importantly) if something major happens to a hybrid vehicle?
The system eliminated a transmission, which is a complex (and expensive) component that commonly requires major repair or replacement late in the vehicle's life. There are no gears and there is no torque-converter. Instead, there is just a permanently engaged power-split device. A simple component like a differential, which almost always lasts the entire lifetime of the vehicle.
Fluid has been eliminated from the steering system. So there's nothing to ever check or change.
The engine is has 2 fewer pistons, which obviously eliminates parts (and cost). And it doesn't get used as often, never runs as hot, has a much lower redline, and has much less stressful starts than a traditional engine. So it should last longer.
The AC motors are brushless, so they never need any maintenance. The battery-pack is designed to last the life of the vehicle, so that shouldn't ever need any maintenance either.
There is an extra fluid to change, the coolant for the inverter, but the process to do that is similar to anti-freeze. So that's not a big deal.
Brakes don't get used as often, since the regenerator-motor handles most of the decleration needs. So the shoes & pads should last longer than normal too.
Computers have been in traditional vehicles for years. So reliability to the one in HSD should be similar, they almost never need servicing.
Realistically, that's it. The HSD system should actually cost less to maintain. So if anything, consider costs a wash, no more than a traditional vehicle.
JOHN
Oh well, Im just really curious about the pricing of it.. I've been reading over all the messages with what the predictions will be.. Most likely it will be a bit more expensive, but if you wait until the end of the year ( If there isn't a large demand but there might be) and buy it then, you usually get a discount because car lots clear out say the 2005s for 2006 models beacuse they aren't considered "new" but hell I wouldn't care
And I'm gonna be curious about the reliability and quality issues it might encouter.. It might be more reliabile like John just said, but we'll have to wait and see..
I'm from BC Canada, and the bonus for me is that I think I wouldn't have to do that stupid Air Care thing if I get it I'm just mostly worried about the price..
Anyways just wanted to give my thoughts on my first post..
I associate "comfort" with what you sit on, how much the steering-wheel & seat & pedals can be adjusted, along with how much leg room is available. You can also in other aspects, like how good the Heat & A/C work and the quality of the sound system. Heck, even the cupholders can be something that contribute to "comfort".
There's nothing wrong with a moderate-size hybrid SUV, but it should be properly represented by avoiding terms that can be easily misunderstood.
JOHN
But one thing we're not gonna do in here is go down the line of conversation taking place in I don't like SUVs..., LOL. Let's try to stick to the hybrid Highlander.
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What I picked up:
1. Orders will start in mid summer (expect long lines- Lexus dealer in area already has 50 preorders for the 400h (almost as many as he will be allocated)). Plan on delivery in Feb/March of 2005, although chance of getting in in Jan.
2. Cost will run most likely in the 3000-5000 range over the non-hybrid (At least that is what they are saying right now- I'm not convinced).
3. Almost all the hybrids will be produced in the Limited line.
4. And most important... the battery will be guaranteed for the life of the car (as long as it is on the road & transferable to all future owners at no cost)
300,000 hybrids by 2006 so...
50,000 Prius made this year (with long waits) so production will increase probably to 80-100,000.
Lexus is wear the $$$ and forward looking demand is (Lexus buyers are even more willing to spend the extra $$$ on options such as hybrid so...
I am looking for 100,000+
So that leaves the highlander with a max of 100,000... demand is going to eat these up!!!
Different folks told me contradictory things. I asked about how to increase the chances of getting one when they come out. One person said go to the dealer who sold the most Priuses because they'll get the biggest allotment of HH's. Then someone else told me that, since every dealer sells every Prius they get, searching out dealers based on Prius sales would be useless. Now, a dealer from an underprivileged area told me to place the order with him because he thought he wouldn't have much demand for the HH and I'd be more likely to get one that way.
Some people said that all the HH's would have the third seat.
Others said that there would be an equal number of HH's and HH Limiteds. I find it hard to believe that the non-loaded versions will be first off the line, but who knows.
P.S. I was also told that the release date of the Lexus hybrid (the RH400?) has been pushed back to November. I find this distressing since I was hoping that its earlier release date would siphon off some of the "first on their block" types, as well as those for whom money is no object, leaving the HH for those of us with more modest budgets.
What did other patrons at the Chicago Auto Show learn about sales, price, options, etc.?
Secondly, I asked about the remodel thing and was told there is a strong chance that the remodel may be coming in the 2005 model, part of the reason for the late release date of both the regular highlander and the hybrid.
Same for the RX400H, which was going to have LED tail lights but looked otherwise the same as the RX330.
So I started selling him on the virtures of Vehicle Skid Control, and the new V6s in Camrys... we will see. In a perfect world, Id really like to see an AWD Camry AND a Hybrid Camry AND a Hybrid AWD Camry!!!
alpha
It's been a very useful resource to better understanding what I might expect when I order my Highlander.
Does anyone know whether the Hybrid Highlander will use an Atkinson cycle engine? It's listed as a selling point to Toyota's Synergy Drive in the '04 Prius, and since the hybrid Escape will also be using one, it might be a nice advantage.
http://www.toyota.com/about/tomorrow/ads/hsd.html
I for one would welcome the idea of sacrificing some power to favor efficiency on an already supercharged V-6.
If it were the case it might also help to explain the surprisingly high "significantly better than 27.6 combined MPG" that's been touted.
Thanks again.
Answer: Yes.
I have not seen Toyota revealing it for a fact yet. But reasonings from the understanding of HSD imply so.
>> I for one would welcome the idea of sacrificing some power to favor efficiency on an already supercharged V-6.
With Hybrid Highlander, you don't sacrifice power. You'll gain power and efficiency with HSD technology. It is true that Akinson cycle will make less mechanical(engine) power than Otto cycle Highlander. Hybrid Highlander will have electric super charged power advantage. 120KW (161hp) motor in the front and 4WD-i version will have 50KW (67hp) motor in the back. Electric power is what you want. High torque instant delivery. Hybrid Highlander is suppose to be faster with 0-60 about 8.5 sec.
Dennis
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_cod- - e=autoshows&loc_code=&content_code=04700872
Another example of hybrid advantage by escaping traditional ICE only trade-off boundry. This car is tuned for maximum performance using exotic materials but using HSD (3.3L V6) that will be used in Highlander Hybrid.
BTW, I am open to the possibility of marketing hype.
Dennis
NYCLP4
Dennis
NYCLP4
Anybody else getting a different story (like an earlier delivery date than this)?
Thanks
The following example uses family-oriented people averaging roughly 12,000 mi per yr, or 1000 mi per month, who do not use their cars for businesses where one requires much greater utilization of their vehicles:
- 6 cyl 2004 Highlander gets about 20 mpg (18 cty/24 hwy) needing 50 gallons of gas; total monthly cost of gas at $1.90/gallon is $95;
- 6 cyl 2005 Hybrid should get 28 mpg; therefore 1,000 mi will cost $65 given prior parameters;
- monthly saving of $30 accumulate into $360 saved per year;
- with the trend to change cars every 5-7 yrs or when warranty expires, one could save $1800 to $2520;
- this falls short of $3K to $5K to ?K more one should pay up front to buy the Hybrid;
- this situation changes for the better, however, when gas approaches $5/gallon.
So, unless the difference in price is minimal measuring hundreds of dollars and not thousands, or the price of gas is European-like, it doesn't make financial sense to buy Hybrid SUV today. The "green" reasons (saving the planet, cleaner air, etc.) may be more prevalent in the first years of hybrid-mania.
But is it really technology itself that is more expensive, or is it politically motivated price gouging to continue pushing toward traditional gas-guzzlers to keep oil industry happy? I can hear the ecstatic slogans when "revolutionary" hybrid Suburbans and Excursions start getting 20 mpg as opposed to today's <15, and costing twice as much.
It doesn't make financial sense to buy Traditional SUV either.
JOHN
- Smooth acceleration, no jerking during shifting (Smoother than 6 speeds)
- Instant power response, no delay from downshiftings (Within milliseconds)
- More torque and horse power than a regular Highlander
- Total silence at the stop lights
- Electric heater that produces heat faster
- HOV lane access in some states
- Many more (Feel free to add)
Obviously, you were not aware of many other HSD benefits and calculated only the fuel saving.
Dennis
I also predict that 20 years from now the roadways will be just as congested as they are today...
What in the world would make a person think so much time is needed? If an average vehicle is only in service for 8 years anyway, that's over 2 full cycles, which more than is enough to replace everything. And in that same time, a vehicle will be remodeled at least 4 times. To revise so much, yet not improve the drive system that much would be a bit odd.
So I would expect hybrids becoming standard much sooner.
And by basing the rollout on other new technologies of the past, it shouldn't take more than 10 years... of which, has already begun.
JOHN