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Comments
My radiator fan (also pulls air over the AC condensor) has started to run more often then last summer and my AC seems to be doing a little bit better. The temps have been in the high 70's - low 80's and if the car would stay this cool all summer I would be happy.
Anyhow - my '06 3s with black leather interior baked in the sun for several hours today. It was freakin' HOT in the car when I got in it this afternoon. The A/C was pushing very cold air and cooled the cabin within just a few minutes. Maybe I just got lucky or maybe they've resolved this in the '06s? :confuse:
Also - there is no doubt that the black interior in most Mazda3's make the car feel much warmer - Which IMO is all the more reason that Mazda should have put in a killer AC system -
It will be interesting to see - as the summer heats up - if any of the 2006 car owners start to complain about weak AC. Mazda claims that no changes have been made to the AC system (since the 2004 model intro).
The one thing I know - if you are unlucky and get stuck with a weak AC system Mazda will not do anything to resolve the problem. Looks like you are one of the lucky ones.
Marc
I had the fuel pump replaced - & my hard start problem was 100% solved.
It's not coming from the height adjustment mechanism - it's coming from where the part that you snap the belt into on the driver's seat.
Clicking seems to occur mostly when accelerating or slowing down and is somewhat inconsistent. If I unbuckle my seatbelt it stops so it's obviously in the mechanism somewhere.
It's astoundingly loud considering what it's coming from.
Curious if anyone has had any luck getting a repair on this - I'll be taking it to my dealer soon if it doesn't stop.
Cross my fingers - this is the only rattle, etc. that I've got!
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=6183.new;topicseen#new
http://www.autoacforum.com//messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=14994&forumid=1
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=6183.new;topicseen#new
http://www.autoacforum.com//messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=14994&forumid=1
Man... I keep hearing about how awful the Mazda 3's A/C is, but so far (only 1100 Miles, tho) I haven't had a problem. I'm knocking on wood, cuz I live in Texas and it will get *hot*, but it's already been 90+ and I haven't had an issue. Is there a difference in the Mazdas with Climate Control?
Are you calling me crazy? I think my a/c works, so I may be just that. :P
Thanks.
I am not about to try and say the AC is GREAT. But it is a fact many people say the AC system is very good. Even a few in Texas and Florida -
Go back to post #388 - dated April 03 2004 - I think this was my first post about possible weakness in the Mazda3 AC. Little did I know at that time the problems I would have -
If one's A/C is cycling on for 10 seconds than there is no way there A/C is fine. The cycle needs to be longer a lot longer.
Without getting into pressure tests of the A/C system, one would need to know how often their A/C compressor cycles on and how long after it stops, it starts or kicks-in again. The standard amongst those that are complaining is that it kicks in after a minute and only lasts 10 seconds even in the hottest conditions.
I believe climate control is something new in the 2006 models. My 2005 does not have it, nor does it have 6 speakers either.
The compressor is controlled in part by a temperature sensor that is located right by the evaperator - when the sensor hits the set temp it sends a message to the compressor to shut off. I would guess the set point is right around 32 degrees - not much below because if the evaperator stays below 32 degrees for a while ice will form on the evaperator - the air flow will be reduced - this will kill the cooling capacity.
It seems to me that the evaperator is too small (not enough surface area) - so the flow of refrigerant to it is able to quickly cool it down to the set point - and this shuts the compressor off. But there is one more thing going on here.
Most AC systems also have a feature that - once the compressor shuts off - prevent it from turning back on until the pressure on the high side of the system (between the compressor and the condenser) drops to a safe level. The compressor is like a pump - you do not want it to try and start pumping into a line that is under high pressure. This is called "starting up under load" - and it can cause very bad things to happen.
So IMO - this is what is causing the AC to cycle so quickly.
The bottom line is that there is a defect or issue of some description. It was suggested that those owners effected send a letter to Jim O'Sullivan at Mazda International Operations in Irvine California to voice their concerns and how we're not getting anywhere. If they can't fix the problem, at least have them acknowledge there is one.
Here in South Carolina we've already had some 90°F+ days and the A/C in my '06 is having no problem at all keeping the car cool. Car is an '06 3s-GT Sedan with BLACK leather interior - I've got the automatic climate control.
On the hottest day we've had so far (91°F) and with the car baking in the sun for four hours, the fan ran on high for about 5 minutes or so and then gradually began to slow down over the next 30 minutes. I was never uncomfortable in the car after the initial 5 minute "cool-down".
With the black interior I may go ahead and buy a sun-shade for the front window, which should help keep the interior from getting overly hot in the summer.
I'll post how it handles our 95°F+ / 90%+ humidity July and August hell-fest this summer but I'm convinced at this point that it's going to be up for the task. They've either "fixed" the A/C problem or I got lucky! :shades:
I had a friend - that is in the AC business - hook up his gauges and monitor the pressure while the compressor cycled on and off.
He confirmed what Mazda was telling me - that the system seemed to be running at the correct pressures.
Which means the compressor was shutting down when the system reached the correct pressure on the high side. The system was not low on refrigerant - which could cause the compressor to shut down because of a low pressure condition (on the LOW side) - when there is not enough refrigerant the compressor will be running "dry" so most systems have a safety shut off to prevent this condition.
I have read a few posts that claim the Mazda3 had a weak AC when new - but after 10,000 or so miles the system seemed to get better - this was always hard to me to accept - these things don't heal themselves. But my AC seems to be a little better than it was last year - so I am keeping an open mind.
There are a few things that could be causing the AC to get better over time. Remote - but possible.
The evaperator could have a coating on it that reduces the efficiency - over time the constant flow of water (condensation) could be washing this coating off - making the system run better.
I know some industrial evaperator come from the factory with a protective coating (sprayed on during the manufacturing process) - this coating is removed before the evaperator is installed. 1 in 100,000 chance!
The second thing - the expansion valve could be too small - this would reduce the flow of refrigerant through the evaperator - although the pressure and temperature would still show the correct values. Over time - with use - this opening may be getting slightly larger - allowing a greater flow of refrigerant - allowing the system to cool better. 1 in 10,000 chance!
The system could have a very small amount of contamination in the refrigerant. A very very very small amount of moisture in the system can plug the expansion valve reducing the ability of the system to cool. There is a dryer in the system - it is like a filter that removes moisture / contamination from the refrigerant. It is possible that over time the filter removes this problem and allows it to work correctly. 1 in 1,000 chance.
Or - the darn thing is just too small / poor design. 1 in 10 chance.
Or Mazda knows the real problem and they just don't want to spend the $ to fix it. 1 in 2 chance.
Writing letters, phoning Mazda probably won't do us any good in getting a fix. Mazda has set its mind on doing nothing unless a large number of owners bug Mazda about this issue. I think alot won't bother.
Is it possible for Mazda to replce the evaporator with a larger one? Is there room for a bigger one? If not than I think we are stuck with a poorly designed system. We shall see what the summer brings.
Just one question. When driving with the A/C off and bring in air from outside the air feels warmer than the outside air. After I stop and park and restart after about 15 minutes the air from the vents feels very warm like the heater is on or the dial is set to hot, outside temp about 12C. It takes about 15 minutes of driving before it cools back down to something comfortable. I have a digital termometer which I will use to check the temps for a more accurate evaluation. Do I have a heater door not closing completely or is this normal for the car? I do not notice this on my other vehicles.
I also noticed warm air coming from my vents - so even on a 50 degree day I would sometimes turn on the AC. I tested the air temp a few times - and the outside air temp VS the vent air temp there was about a 12 degree increase in the temp. (AC off - temp control knob all the way over to cold) - This seemed like a lot to me - but when I tested my other vehicles they also had an increase - can't recall the number - but something like 8-10 degrees. So I did not think that was the problem.
I had my windows tinted - plus the invoice indicated they adjusted my MCC - which I think stands for mix control cable. When you turn the temperature control knob from hot to cold - or some where in between - it is moving a little trap door that separates the AC evaperator from the heater core.
You may already know this - but the AC evaperator and heater core both look like little radiators - the difference is the evaperator has refrigerant pumped through it (lets not get too technical) and the heater core has hot anti-freeze/coolant pumped through it.
The way Mazda (and others) designed the system they are right next to each other - if you turn on the defroster with the knob turned to hot/warm the air goes though both - evaperator and heater core.
I can not tell if the improvement in my AC was from the tinting or the cable adjustment - or both - I still get warm air coming from my air vents - even on cold day (45 degrees is cold in Houston) - so I can't tell. I had these both done at the end of last summer - so I have not had many 90+ degree days to test it out yet - but time will tell.
Thanks z71bill for your input.
Writing letters, phoning Mazda probably won't do us any good in getting a fix. Mazda has set its mind on doing nothing unless a large number of owners bug Mazda about this issue. I think alot won't bother.
So we shouldn't bother? That's not the right kind of attitude. Is that the kind of attitude one should take when it comes to voting?
If all of us just give up at the first road block, then we are destined for failure. We can't expect those like me who will pursue this matter to fight everyone's battles. Mazda believes the problem effects only a small number of Mazda3 owners. It's perseverance that can and will make a difference, not negative attitude. So, write that letter and make that call, the power is in the numbers and we can make a difference if all of us take a few minutes of our time from the internet and write Mazda CEO Jim Sullivan and call Mazda Customer Service.
That's why those techs need the exact pressures to have a better insight what the real problem is. Right now, we are all guessing. So, we need some actual data to troubleshoot this A/C issue. Can anyone provide this?
Also, someone wrote that the compressor will cycle off less when the coolant is low. So, this may be why after 10,000 miles or so it is cooler because there would be less coolant.
Do you have the email addresses of those high level people such as CEO, VP, President of Mazda Canada? I meet the road block at the customer service level. I think email is more fast and effective than mail or fax.
Remember, we got power in numbers; united we stand, divided we fall.
If you ever see ice build up on an evaperator - it normally means that the system is low on refrigerant.
I have seen this on cars, my home AC system and on a refrigerator.
The compressor just keeps on running because there is not enough refrigerant to allow it to reach the point where the high side pressure differential switch reaches its set point & send a signal to the compressor to shut down -
The Mazda3 system is set up a little different - it also has a temperature sensor in front of the evaperator - it shuts the compressor down based on the evaperator hitting a set temperature - so in theory anyway - it should not change the compressor cycle -
Unless - maybe the Mazda3 system - with both a temp sensor and a pressure differential switch is not perfectly balanced - so you have two different sensors telling the compressor to shut down. If the system is set up correctly the pressure switch and the temp switch would both reach the set point at about the same time - because the pressure & temp are directly correlated.
As far as writing Mazda letters - not a bad idea - can't hurt. I still have a flat spot on the top of my head from running into a Mazda brick wall a few times.
I sent Mazda a few e-mails about the AC problems I was having.
The first E-mail - I got the auto reply and then a follow up e-mail from a person - some standard customer service form letter saying how sorry they were about my problems - but no solution was offered. My next e-mail I listed the exact things that I had done so far - something like 3 dealer visits, 2 calls to 1-800 Mazda customer service - plus 1 E-mail to customer service - I told them I had done everything that I could think of to get my issue resolved - and really wanted some advise about what I could do next to get my problem solved - I got the auto reply and then I got a letter that said - THEY RECOMMENDED I TAKE MY PROBLEM TO MY STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL. Really - cross my heart - that was their advise.
Hard to understand how any company would actually put this in a written communication to a customer - but they did.
I sent a follow up e-mail and it was returned to sender - could not be delivered - BLOCKED BY MAZDA.
Now before anyone says I must have been rude or nasty in my e-mails please save it - I was direct but nice. I tried to send additional E-mails - they all came back blocked - return to sender - after about 3 months I was able to send an e-mail that actually went through - I got the auto reply and a letter from a person telling me that Mazda had a TSB out on the AC issue - (it was the diffusser plate fix) - I was told to take this information to my dealer and they would install it.
The diffusser did nothing to help my AC -
On the hottest day we've had so far (91°F) and with the car baking in the sun for four hours, the fan ran on high for about 5 minutes or so and then gradually began to slow down over the next 30 minutes. I was never uncomfortable in the car after the initial 5 minute "cool-down".
Yep. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong about their A/C problems, but I've had the same amount of "luck" with my A/C . I also have a black leather interior on a 3s GT w/Auto Climate and I have felt comfortable for the most part in weather that has already been 104 here in Dallas, Texas.
As mentioned earlier tho, I suppose their could be a difference in A/C w/Climate Control. I would doubt it tho, climate control is probably just some extra sensors and electronics. Good Luck to everyone still having probs tho.
Today it was 70F in the sun and my A/Cs coldest temp out of the vent was 43 to 44F. But at a outside temp of 80F plus I don't think the A/C will be a big help.
Last summer (about the same temps) I would run the fan on 3 - recirculate on - all the time and the car was never really cool - the last few days I have been using fan speed 3 at first - then switch back and forth between 2 & 3 - 3 is a little cold (something I thought I would never say) and 2 is a little warm. Some of the time I turn it to outside air and leave the fan on 3 - it still seems to keep the car cool. This is a new condition - I am 100% sure something has changed for the better.
When I shut the car off - the radiator fan keeps running for a few seconds - my car did not do this before - My assumption is the fan must be running more than it did before - although I can not tell if it is running while I am driving - or if it did before.
The radiator fan pulls air through the condensor - which does have an impact on the ability of the AC system to produce cold air. I do not know why the radiator fan started doing this - as far as I know Mazda did not change anything on my car - or at least they did not indicate it on my invoice.
I also noticed that when I turn my AC on - the radiator fan almost always starts up right away - this is also something new - it did not do this last year.
Maybe this has something to do with the problem - I do not know -
If anyone is having weak AC issues - does your radiator fan start up as soon as you turn on the AC?
Does it continue to run after you shut the car off?
It is normal for the Radiator fan to come on with the AC
Yeah, I meant refridgerant when I said coolant. The former takes too long to type. ;-)
Like z71bill wrote : The Mazda3 system is set up a little different - it also has a temperature sensor in front of the evaperator - it shuts the compressor down based on the evaperator hitting a set temperature. The Mazda has 2 sensors and it could be how they are programmed or designed that is affecting the compressor cycle, even though it shouldn't.
From the A/C link I posted: "There is a high pressure switch, a low pressure switch, and a "medium pressure switch. The PCM gets data from all 3 switches, and controls the compressor relay. This is a TXV system, and evaporator icing is controlled by a thermistor on the evap face.
Hard to say if the cycling is caused by hitting the HPCO, another pressure switch, or the anti-icing thermistor. Pressures will tell us plenty. "
I believe the fault lies in the sensors and programming, but only pressure testing the A/C system will help us.
We need to post high and low pressures whatever the ambient, especialy if the same thing happens when it's hot and or cold . But most important, pressures when it's doing it's cycling will tell us much more than you think.
"Someone need to report the system pressures while running the engine at 3,000 rpm it will help us tell you what the system is doing. The description of cycling regardless of ambient sounds like a PCM problem. Post up some 3k rpm test data please."
If anyone has any connections to find out what, that would help. Thanks
Can't speak specifically about your Mazda (I'm on this board researching a future purchase) but on every car I've had with AC the radiator fan was essentially hard wired to the AC switch. Some of them left it running with the engine off.
Thanks again, much appreciated.
Anyhow, in +10C weather, the compressor still cycles on for 10 seconds. However, the interval is different: instead of starting up again every 60+ seconds, it starts up every 15-18 seconds. This makes the entire interior cooler and actually has it stay cooler longer.
Also noted, there is an onboard computer in the radio that measures outside temps, mileage consumed, average speed etc. It's a definite different software system in that car, which I believe is once again pointing to the PCM.
I want to get a pollenfilter. Could I put it in myself? does that work at all? The 2006 ones have it standard, and it has been standard in Europe since forever. So it should be possible. How do I check that? Where would I put it? how do I access it?
I called for my oil appointment and asked about that.. but ht eguy didn't know (and I don't want to spend much $ for them figuring it out... hell, for what they charge they should know :-)
See here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111059
Also, I had a cargo net installed by the dealer. The bottom screws are just attached to the plastic panel while the top screws are attached to the same panel but also to the base of the car behind the panel. The problem is the bottom of the plastic panel is loose and not very well secured. It this the way it's supposed to be? Thanks for your responses!
I installed mine myself and the bottom clips only go through the plastic panel - not into the frame. They've got an expansive rubber piece on them that holds them in place. I was concerned too when I installed it - but there's almost no weight on those clips - the top clips bear 90% of whatever you've put in the net so it should be fine. I've had no problems with it.