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Comments
Probably not. As we saw in the model before the redesign in 2010...the value package or option package change didn't really change a whole lot until about 3-4 years into the design's cycle. I got mine 2009 and the value package came with the itouring is a steal. But that is because it was the last year of the design.
I will have to disagree with you (respectably, of course).
First off, leasing will only make sense under certain scenarios:
- You don't drive a lot (10k -12k miles a year - that's usually the sweet spot for a lease)
- You like getting a brand new car every 3-4 years
- You are on a tight monthly budget and need to keep your monthly payment as low as possible.
When financing a car you are out of warranty for many years, so there is the risk of unexpected costly repairs that one would have to factor in. And yes it is a Mazda and not necessarily the most reliable car on the planet, though very good in initial quality.
Tires and brakes:
When financing, you will need to replace both tires and brakes (so you figure an additional $1,000 to add to the bill).
Now let run some numbers (will take for example a $280 lease vs a $380 finance payment). With a saving of $100 a month after 36 months you would have saved $3,600. When financing you would keep paying for another 24 months x $380 that's an additional $9,120. Add the additional $1,000 for brakes and tires and you end up with an additional investment of $13,720 (and that is without any other maintenance you will probably have to do when out of warranty). The car will only be worth about $8,000 and that's if you sell it on your own (good luck getting that for a trade in).
All that said, it does not mean the leasing is always better that financing the car. It depends greatly on all the factors involved. Under the right circumstances though a lease will make more sense.
Finance will work better in the long run if you prefer to keep your cars for a while (7 - 8 years at least) and if you get a really good rate on it (preferably 0%).
Radude, you mention the expense of tires and brakes. Those are unlikely to be reality in a lease scenario. Most tires last 50,000 + miles and most brakes (depending on driving habits) last 30-50 thousand miles - both at or beyond a typical 3-5 year leasing period with mileage restrictions. Also, I did not see the amount due at signing (of a lease). Is there any?
I am certainly no expert (on finances) and never claimed to be. It seems that leasing has its merits, but not with the Mazda3. I agree with Sonnyrocker.
I
I located an 07 speed3 that i love, but the price just isnt right. Ive shown the dealer quotes ive gotten from other dealers in the area for thousands less and he made a counter offer that i thought was pretty fair. I obtained a carfax and thats why im here...
the carfax lists a possible issue with odometer rollback and when i look into it, the miles reported just dont add up. The mileage is only off by about 4k miles, so at first i thought it could be a clerical issue (like carfax suggests). but upon closer inspection it just looks too fishy.
i asked the dealer about it, who also thought nothing of it. i pretty much told him i would have to back out of the deal unless he had something more substantial for me, and now is offering another 2k off the agreed upon price.
so now im stuck; the price is great, i love the car but im just unsure what to make of the milage.
any opinions???
thanks for the help.
What are you talking about??? Dealer makes the same profit whether you lease, finance or pay cash.
What are you talking about? It is obvious that they have to make profit, who wants to sell if you can't make money? But "same"? You got to be kidding, the profit margin is NOT the same. They make less if you can cash, they make a little more if you finance. They rip you off if you lease.
Exactly one of the reason why it is a bad deal to lease.
- You like getting a brand new car every 3-4 years
Of course, if you like a new car every 3-4 years, you will have to pay for that luxury. How can I argue with that?
- You are on a tight monthly budget and need to keep your monthly payment as low as possible.
That is incorrect, sir. Lease payment may seem lower (not by much), but given the fact that you have to put down payment, you are not saving a whole lot.
If you lease a car for $199 with $1,000 down, or finance it for $240/mo. You have to pay $41 more a month when finance but that is better than the $1,000 you have to cough up in the beginning of a lease. and with Mazda, you retain good resale value when own. With lease, you get nothing.
Looking especially for numbers on the...
Mazda3 Auto i Sport (4dr)
Mazda3 Auto i Touring (4dr)
Received on-line quotes of 16000 for i Sport and 17500 for i Touring.
Not including Sales tax, Registration fee, License fee, Title, Inspection, Tire Fee ...anything else?
Sounds good to me but not sure if its BS!
Thanks!
live in NC with 3% tax
doc fee was $450
$75 for registration
OTD w/no options
Mazda3 Auto iSport 4dr = 16,750
Mazda3 Auto iTouring 4dr = 17,475 (includes mats and cargo net in trunk)
decided on the iTouring
You missed my point...
I only drive about 10 K miles a year - so it's perfect for me.
I do like to get a new car every 3-4 years and I like the piece of mind of not having to worry about unexpected breakdowns and repair bill, and because i am on a set monthly payment I can easier manage my budget. It takes the risk factor out of it.
Your numbers are a little off. First of one you should never put any money down on a lease. I strongly advise everyone against it. I just leased a 2010 Mazda 3 GT auto with Moonroof package ($24,450) for $293 a month with zero down (sign and drive).
If I was to finance that same car even with 0% for 60 months my payment would have been $432 after all taxes and fees. That is a $140 monthly difference.
I also got an additional $1550 lease rebate from Mazda, that was not available for financing (though you do get a great 0% rate).
So there is no real mystery or secret conspiracy of dealers to take money away from customers by offering them leases. It's all simple math. There are great deals that could be found in both leasing and financing and there also terrible deals in both. The finance seems to be more straight forward so for a shady dealer it's easier to take a customer on a ride by offering them a bad deal through a lease. For someone that knows exactly how a lease works and does their homework, that would not be a problem.
All that said there is really no clear cut winner between a lease or a finance. It's based on a lot of factors and either one can work under the right circumstances.
How does that saying go? If it's too good to be true, then ...
The dealer took $1K off the MSRP with an additional $1,500 manufacturer lease rebate and 0% financing. He quoted me the below price:
36 months lease @ $299/mo
$2,030 down payment (for Tax, Bank fees and 1st month's payment)
My current lease is about to expire so I have little time left to make a decision. Does this seem like a good deal? I haven't done much shopping around but wanted to get a sense of how good a price this is?
Thanks!
Dealers only make more money on a finance transaction if they mark up the rate. As far as leasing goes, their profit is based on the selling price of the car, same as a cash/finance transaction. Some manufacturers allow the dealer to mark up the money factor, but, if you take 5 minutes and research the dealer buy rates, the dealer makes NO MONEY on lease rates, especially with Mazda.
I am a dealer. Please do not tell me how I make my profit because it is obvious you have no idea. Honestly, we hate leases because we have less opportunities to make money. Lease customers have no need for an extended warranty, gap insurance and can't make money on rate. We dealers often make LESS money on leases then cash or finance transactions.
Sounds like a true dealer. You don't make money on leases? That is bull crap. You are not selling the car, and the lease price is based on depreciation value of the cars. Higher depreciation will have higher lease. and when you get your car back, you can still sell it at market price and make profit that way, so don't tell me what I don't know. You are in the business to make money, period. Mazda 3s have good resale values, so lease prices for Mazda 3s should be lower than sedan of other similar brands, however, that is not always the case. I see some high lease prices and somebody is making money somewhere, but definitely not the consumers.
With that said, the national MSRP is $25,785 and the base invoice price (no regional advertising fees) is $23,992. You should be shooting for anywhere between invoice to $1,000 under invoice BEFORE the $1,500 lease incentive is applied. The lease incentive you mentioned is not available in all regions of the country but if it were me, I would look at splitting the difference slightly in your favor and aiming for $500-$750 under invoice.
$23,992 invoice price - $500 under invoice = $23,492 - $1,500 lease incentive = $21,992 + any applicable regional advertising fee.
Bottom line is that irregardless of any regional advertising fees, I would turn down any lease offer using an agreed upon vehicle value of $22,000 after incentives. You have the advantage of not needing a car yet so you can be more aggressive in your negotiations.
When I entered $22K as the Vehicle Price on cars.com with zero down, it calculated a monthly lease payment of $376.64 which includes tax (but not acquisition fees, destination charges, tag, title). My dealer quoted me $339/mo (all inclusive; with a total out of pocket of $396.85 for dmv).
When I put $2K down (which I don't intend to do but just for comparison to the above dealer's quote of $299/mo), cars.com calculated $310.48.
The dealer's price was without any haggling so I may be able to get it lower but it would seem that it's a good deal?
Thanks!
I think you are misunderstanding that I am saying. I never said we don't make money on leases. I said we usually make less on leases then on finance and cash transactions.
You are not selling the car, and the lease price is based on depreciation value of the cars.
Yes, the lease is based on the depreciation. The manufacturer sets the depreciation (residual value). However, a lease is also calculated by a selling price, which the dealer sets. I get paid based on the selling price of that vehicle and if I mark up the money factor, which really never happens. I do not get a dime from the depreciation.
Higher depreciation will have higher lease. and when you get your car back, you can still sell it at market price and make profit that way, so don't tell me what I don't know.
The manufacturer takes back the car and the manufacturer sells it to the dealer at their set price. I have not purchased an off-lease Mazda3 from Mazda in about 3 years because they want to much money for them. The dealer cannot buy the car for the buy out price that is offered to the customer. Mazda does not allow that. What Mazda offers is always higher.
You are in the business to make money, period.
1000% correct. The same reason why you go to work in the morning. To earn a living. I never claimed to not earn money.
I see some high lease prices and somebody is making money somewhere, but definitely not the consumers.
The Mazda3 has an excellent lease right now. The residuals are high, money factor is low and there is a rebate. I have not encountered one person that thinks the Mazda3 is a bad lease deal.
If you are seeing high prices, then those dealers are selling the car for a higher value then others, which is their right to do. If you think they are high, then don't buy from them. Plain and simple.
I'm trying to help you understand a little more about how leasing really works for the dealer. I have been in these forums for years and have offered honest and truthful advise to hundreds of would-be buyers and my reputation speaks for itself. You do have a few theories on leasing with is just not true. If you don't believe me, fine. If you want to insult me by making statements like "sounds like a true dealer", then fine I could really care less. I do care about people receiving wrong information especially when they come here for help.
See, that is where your problem is. You can't compare lease to finance and cash transaction because you make less, because buyers never get to own the car, so you get to make money AND sell the car again in the future. In fact, you can sell the same car 3 times. Once for lease, 2nd for pre-owned, and 3rd as an outright used. Your logic is flawed. When I said "they" I don't distinguish you from the manufacturer. To the buyer or consumer, it means very little who makes the profit. Whoever makes the profit gets the money from us, the buyer, bottom line.
"Yes, the lease is based on the depreciation. The manufacturer sets the depreciation (residual value). However, a lease is also calculated by a selling price, which the dealer sets. I get paid based on the selling price of that vehicle and if I mark up the money factor, which really never happens. I do not get a dime from the depreciation."
Yeah, based on "what" selling price? the MSRP? Your answer is deceptive, because you get the difference between MSRP and the actual invoice price. and I don't care who makes the money, you or the manufacturer, the fact remains that leasing is NOT a good deal for consumers. The only reason why leasing makes sense is if the buyer wants a new car every 2-3 years and don't wish to deal with the maintenance down the road, so that is the premium the buyers are paying for.
"1000% correct. The same reason why you go to work in the morning. To earn a living. I never claimed to not earn money."
How is that different than what I was saying? So you agree that you are in it to make profit, good.
"If you are seeing high prices, then those dealers are selling the car for a higher value then others, which is their right to do. If you think they are high, then don't buy from them. Plain and simple."
Exactly my point.
"I'm trying to help you understand a little more about how leasing really works for the dealer."
No, you are not, aviboy. You were being condescending and you are behaving like a jerk for telling me that I don't know what I am talking about. I do know what I am talking about, but you just didn't get a clarification from me. I am speaking from a consumer's viewpoint and I dislike how you, as a dealer, talk to me this way. Which is probably how you treat your customers anyway. and I don't care about your track record on this forum. I have no interest in going back and check out all of your posts.
No offense, but you sound rather ignorant and thick headed. Trying to prove your point without having enough information or a good understanding of the process.
I am on Aviboy's side, and I am not a dealer...
That is a narrow point of view. It is not always true and, therefore, not a fact. There are times when heavily subsidized leases are an excellent deal for a consumer. I've taken advantage of a few myself where money factors equated to 0.9% or 1.9%, there were thousands of dollars in dealer support, and they carried inflated residuals. Is it the norm? No, of course not. But it happens.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Exactly my point
and what process is that? Paying to rent for something that you will never own, and the dealer/manufacturer gets your car back after you dump thousands of dollar into it?
What an excellent process that is.
The last car I owned was a Honda. I bought it brand new, pay it off in 4 years and guess how I long I had it without a car payment? I had that car for 12 years so I had no car payment and no lease payment for 8 years. So who is ignorant? But hey, if keep putting out $200 - $400/mo and got nothing to show for is your cup of tea, go for it.
No financial experts will suggest lease over ownership, unless "short term" gain is aimed. Would you listen to a dealer? or someone who knows how to invest or to save money? and it is MY personal opinion that lease is a bad deal for consumers. If you don't like it, you don't have to read or respond to my post, but don't go insulting my intelligence because you feel otherwise. That makes you ignorant, not me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
No one is talking about a buyout option here. We are talking about lease vs. buy. What you are describing is a form of purchase, and not a pure lease option. You are leasing, and then you are buying the car. Essentially you are financing to buy, and financial experts of course will approve.
I will refrain from a retaliation on choice professions.....
and it is MY personal opinion that lease is a bad deal for consumers. If you don't like it, you don't have to read or respond to my post, but don't go insulting my intelligence because you feel otherwise. That makes you ignorant, not me
You are entitled to your opinion and no one here is trying to change it. Unfortunately, you do not have all the facts about leasing from a customer or dealer stand point and you are claiming you do. That is ignorance.
You dislike leasing because it is a "bad investment". I have news for you, buying a car in general is a bad investment because it is a depreciating asset. All financial experts will tell you buying a pre-owned quality car is the best way to minimize your financial exposure. If you have ever purchased a new car, you have made a bad investment.
No need to lecture me on finance. I listen to Dave Ramsey and have read all his books. :shades:
Not true, you forgot the risk factors. With pre-owned cars, you don't know if it is quality or not and you don't have warranty. and what you pay for a pre-owned car from a dealer's lot is over-valued. If anyone is to buy a pre-owned, they should buy it from the car owner instead of a dealer.
You keep saying you know what you are talking about, but you don't, at least you are not forthcoming with the facts until I pointed it out, that is deceptive.
" I have news for you, buying a car in general is a bad investment because it is a depreciating asset"
and you are wrong about that as well. In America, unless you live in NY or Chicago or other big cities, you NEED to have a car to get where you are going, often times you are going to work. So, buying a car is more than just an investment, it is a necessity.
So, buying from a stranger who does not have to issue a safety report, inspect the car or offer a warranty is not a risk? Most states mandate dealers warranty a pre-owned car for around 60 days or 3,000 miles.
You keep saying you know what you are talking about, but you don't, at least you are not forthcoming with the facts until I pointed it out, that is deceptive.
Such as?
I didn't say that it is not a risk. I said buying "pre-owned" vehicles is a risk in itself, regardless who you are buying it from. But choosing between buying it from a dealer or an owner, I would buy it from an owner, preferably with somebody you know.
"Such as?"
You failed to mention that the selling price is based on MSRP as the reference point for leases. You failed to mention that you are not making more money with lease but when you can sell the same car 3 times, yes, you are making more money.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but, it is the customers right and responsibility to negotiate any type of transaction, including leases. The advertised lease of $199/mo for the 2010 Mazda3 i Sport is calculated on a selling price a couple hundred dollars over invoice. I bet you did not know that.
You failed to mention that you are not making more money with lease but when you can sell the same car 3 times, yes, you are making more money.
You are rambling and making no sense what-so-ever. I'm sorry, but, I don't feel like having a conversation about nonsense. :sick:
Let's get back to talking about those who are actually buying or leasing Mazda3's. That's what I'm interested in. :shades:
we lease from the dealer and we give our cars back to the dealers so you can turn around and sell them as pre-owned....
Very clever....
and you call yourself a dealer and don't know what I am talking about? Oh wait, of course you don't, why would a dealer admits that he is ripping you off?
You are not agreeing that dealers have the potential to sell the same car 3 times? Lease...and then as pre-owned...and then as outright used vehicle when the same car is brought back in for trade-in?
(this isn't up for debate....)
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When a vehicle is returned after the lease who does the inspection? Is it the dealer or a 3rd party inspection company?
I can only speak for Mazda and they have a 3rd party company do the inspection. It's usually a couple weeks before your lease is due back.
I have leased many other brands before and this is the first time I've gotten an excess wear and tear bill after a lease return, even though the car was under mileage and in very good shape (I have returned vehicles in worse shape before without being charged for wear and tear). Is it a Mazda thing, do they nickel and dime their lease returns?
Thanks
It is not Mazda who conducted the inspection, so it may be tough to dispute. Do you have a copy of the condition report? Is the car still at the dealer you returned the car to?
Mazda is usually pretty forgiving when it comes to lease returns. You may have had a picky inspector look at your car.
I called MAZDA earlier then they told me to call the inspection company. Then I was told to call the dealership to find out if the car is still there. Unfortunately it's not.
I was hoping to get the wheels on my own (which I can do for less than $200 a piece), but since the vehicle is no longer at the dealer, I think I'm pretty much SOL...
Anything else I can do?
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
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Do you have the guide in which it states what normal wear and tear is?
To be honest, I don't know if there is anything you can do. Giving the inspection company an ear full might help. Hopefully you get a forgiving analyst on the phone to help you out.
I'll try that.