Honda Ridgeline SUT

fsmmcsi · August 2004

Simplicity is a virtue. Complexity is not. A V6 as an unbalanced 3 with speakers under the hood? "Electric assist?" How about a simple V8 and rear / all wheel drive.

robertsmx · August 2004

V6 is simpler than a V8 (fewer parts to start with). And in a V8, deactivation would still add complexity. And AWD... even more! Actually, electric assist could be the future of AWD. And it is hardly complicated. Replace a part of the flywheel with electric motor, and there we go.

Who could have thought, fixing an imbalance would be possible with speaker(s)? Doesn't sound too complicated to me.

varmint · August 2004

Simplicity is walking wherever you need to go.

On it's own, simplicity is a virtue only if it gets the job done. Honda may go V8 sometime in the near future. They are starting to build more vehicles that would require a bigger block. But they might go with a V10 or hybrid assist. Adding a hybrid drive or VCM may seem complicated, but both will provide results that a basic V8 cannot.

once_for_all · August 2004

Honda came out with their CBX motorcycle--a 6 cylinder unit with less than 200cc per cylinder. The motorcycle developers have no problem with complexity and fast moving parts. The motorcycles I've owned from Honda seemed to hit their sweet spot at 7000 rpm.

Nostalgia...

John

rsholland · August 2004

The 1000cc CBX was a neat engineering exercise. However as a "motorcycle," it was less than successful. It didn't handle very well, and was incredibly complex. Still, I would have loved to have one.

If you think that was something, you ought check out what Honda was building back in the late 1960s, for their Gran Prix motorcycles that Mike Hailwood and Brian Redman raced to many victories: A 6-cylinder 250cc bike, and a 5-cylinder 125cc bike, all with DOHCs and 4-valves per cylinder, and with roller bearings for the main bearings. The engine parts were Swiss-watch-like in size.

Bob

raydahs · August 2004

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7369

once_for_all · September 2004

"An innovative design defines the SUT, both inside and out. Its revolutionary features include a five-foot-long cargo bed that offers remarkable payload capability, a spacious cabin with seating for five adults and numerous storage options. Plus, the SUT is equipped with superior ergonomics and delivers a smooth, comfortable ride. And it's an Ultra-Low-Emission Vehicle (ULEV) that can be equipped with Honda's Satellite-Linked Navigation System."

The link provided the information that there will be side and side curtain air bags. Sounds like Honda is going upscale with this vehicle. If it ends up being much more on the wrong side of $20k, I think there will be a fair amount of competition from the new Sport Trak and other pickup platforms. The Baja, if it gets rebuilt on the new Outback platform, will be a serious contender.

John

robertsmx · September 2004

What is a "pickup platform"?

fsmmcsi · September 2004

The new Odyssey is out, and the weight is way up. Honda really does need a V8 for the Odyssey/Pilot/car-truck/MDX & RL. Modern pushrod engines are inexpensive to build, relatively light weight, and make cylinder deactivation simple. However, a DOHC design does allow for VVT on both intake and exhaust. A compact DOHC V8 such as the just-introduced Volvo 4.4 (315HP and 325 Ft-lbs.) built by Yamaha might be just what Honda needs.

If a Montego does not work for me I will buy a pickup before another SUV/wagon. The upcoming Honda is the only pickup with an independent rear suspension, so I hope that it weighs less than the Odyssey, and rides smoothly, despite the over-done "tough truck" looks.

robr2 · September 2004

I wouldn't be suprised to see Honda developing a push rod V-8. After all, Toyota did it recently since they decided to "go a racin'" in the NASCAR Truck series - they had to develop one in order to race. Within a couple of years I predict you'll see Toyota in the Nextel Cup series. Will Honda be far behind?

once_for_all · September 2004

the traditional pickup platform is a separate chassis frame, solid rear axle, and bed bolted to the frame.

The non-traditional (eg this Honda, the Baja) has an integrated body (chassis is built into the body)with independent suspension (no solid axle) and the bed is part of the body (not bolted on). This latter configuration is what makes handling better, but at the penalty of weight carrying capacity. Note, the traditional SUVs like the Explorer are built on a pickup chassis, whereas the Honda CRV, Subaru Forester, Ford Escape, etc. are built on the integrated body chassis platform.

HTH, John

fsmmcsi · September 2004

The current (2002 forward) Explorer / Mountaineer / Aviator are not built on a pickup platform. There is a separate body and frame, but an independent rear suspension. The platform is not shared with any pickup. The same is true for the larger Expedition / Navigator.

The current Explorer Sport-Trac is a completely different vehicle, and it does have much in common with the Ranger pickup.

The Honda car-truck is interesting not because of the uni-body structure, but because of the independent rear suspension, a feature which no other pickup has, and the usable bed size. The exceptionally nice current Pilot interior also suggests that the Honda car-truck will be better than the new 2005 solid rear axle mid-sized pickups from Dodge, Nissan, and Toyota.

The Baja has an independent rear suspension, but its bed is so small that it is almost just a decoration.

robertsmx · September 2004

Does a unit body chassis look like this?

Why do you think ladder frame and solid axle rear suspension have been a tradition? BTW, tradition is also about evolution.

If you look at many light trucks today, they are moving away from solid axle to independent rear suspension set up. Why? When Ford redesigned Explorer, IRS was included to "improve" ride quality, and potentially stability. Explorer Sport Trac has stayed put with solid axle rear suspension, but because it is still sharing platform with the Ranger. I wonder if it will also get IRS with redesign.

Ladder frame and solid axle etc. (the "traditional setup") has advantages, but only if they are meant to be harnessed (like heavy duty towing, serious off roading etc), not necessarily for medium duty pickup. So, why deal with all the disadvantages? A selection around this trade off is going to lead into tradition of emphasizing on ride quality.

once_for_all · September 2004

and the answer (IMO) is economics. Solid rear axles are relatively cheap and mass produced. Independent rear axles, and the suspension that connects them up, are sophisticated and expensive (cv joints, coil spring struts, a-frame arms, half shafts, etc).

Note, it wasn't until a couple years ago that the big SUVs were forced to go independent. Most of them have it now, but geez look at how expensive they are now. The cheaper pickups still use the ladder chassis because of load carrying capacity and flex issues.

John

robertsmx · September 2004

If the SUT can deliver the capabilities matching its competition with 1300-1400 lb payload, about 5000 lb towing and a utilitarian pickup bed with medium duty off-road capability while avoiding flex issues, improve ride quality and costs almost as much as its competition, we would be looking at another evolution of the tradition.

once_for_all · September 2004

yep, I agree which is why I am so excited about this vehicle. I do hope though that they keep mpg on the radar-- while 20 is not bad for most pickups I would really like to see it closer to 25.

John

rkame · October 2004

For literally weeks, I have been waiting for the Texas State Fair in Dallas to check out Honda's 2005 and this SUT, specifically, at the auto show within the TX state fairgrounds. Today (10/3/04) was the big day - and appears Honda did not show in this auto show.

This is not your everyday auto show...this is a huge one, and Lexus, Infinity, Toyota, Nissan, etc, were prominent and the buzz was there, as were all major US automakers. Honda and Acura - no shows.

Anyway - I will now have to re-assess my choices. Was specifically wanting to see this new Honda SUT, which I presumed was later than prototype, maybe early release, and would surely be on the floor that people could climb over and touch, and sit in, and then I wanted to see the Pilot and the Acura MDX in non-threatening non-dealer environment...so now I have no answers to my questions, and since there is no Acura dealer in my rural city, I don't have the time to drive 100 miles to the nearest Acura dealer. Honda missed out on several levels (w/ me) by not being at this auto show. I had a fairly-strong interest in being a PRE-ORDER for the SUT, and now I will definitely not do this without having seen the SUT. I am a current Chevy Avalanche owner and I consider myself a prime cross-over candidate for the SUT. Poor marketing decision IMO for Honda and Acura to skip this show. Very disappointed in Honda. If they (Honda and Acura) can't compete w/ Infinity, Nissan, Toyota, and Lexus, in these major marketing venues, then they will not be in contention for my dollars.

once_for_all · October 2004

Perhaps Honda views Texas as a re-neck only American name region. I am in rural California and the imports don't have nearly the sales of the LA and SF areas.

Or, they just don't have the vehicle's final version laid out yet. I too am impatient to sit in it. My guess is that it will get big exposure at the NY, LA, and Chicago shows.

John

fsmmcsi · October 2004

It was not at the Anaheim show, and I understand that they will probably not show the final version until the Detroit show in mid-January, just after the LA show.

I have considered many other vehicles, but after finally rejecting yesterday the:

-Chrysler 300 / Dodge Magnum (mechanically excellent, but you can't see out of them, they are ugly, the 300 trunk is small, and the Magnum wagon has the same downfall as an my SUV - the ladder and tools / testing equipment I carry is in the same compartment as me, rattling and having to be un-secured and re-secured with every usage);

-The Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego / Ford Freestyle (big trunk, but narrow front footwells, weak engines, no stability control, and only 60 plus buyer interest at the show, suggesting poor resale value)

- the new mid-sized Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, and Dodge Dakota (all too narrow, with a significant lack of console storage space, unlike the Pilot, which I hope carries over to the new Honda car-trunk

- the full sized pickup trucks - all are too big, and handle poorly, and only the Dodge and Nissan offer side and curtain air bags (the Toyota Tundra also has them, but only with a bench front seat)

nowakj66 · November 2004

The SUT has an official name - the Ridgeline!

Kirstie_H · November 2004

Where was this information announced? It'd be great to finally associate a name with this vehicle!

carlisimo · November 2004

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101170

nowakj66 · November 2004

Hey - it was on Honda's news website as well as their main web site. The name was announced at the SEMA auto show.

Kirstie_H · November 2004

The discussion title has been changed, and I sent this information to our editors. Thanks for the heads-up!

once_for_all · November 2004

and 255 ponies. The roof looks like it has 4 moon roofs, or are these transparent affairs? Looking good so far.

John

nowakj66 · November 2004

Anyone know if the Ridgeline has a tilt and telescope wheel? Or adjustable pedals? Here is hoping it does.

I have long legs and even the Pilot seems a little tight. Accord fits though thanks the the adjustable wheel. Ody too thanks to adjustable pedals.

once_for_all · November 2004

my guess is that it will be similar to the Pilot's. Head and leg room will be critical for me, as I am 6'3". My Subaru Forester fits ok, but the Baja is too small. I am hoping the SUT will be just right, as I need something that has a bed feature.

John

nowakj66 · November 2004

Once_for_all - I am 6' 4". I notice that the MDX and Odyssey fit better than the Pilot. Since the SUT is based on similar chassis to these 3 verhicles, lets hope it is more like the MDX or Ody.

once_for_all · November 2004

yes, if it doesn't have room for a cowboy hat, it probably won't tempt those that are currently in an Avalanche. I can't imagine that anyone used to those rough riding vehicles would find the Honda anything but a schweet truck.

John

robr2 · November 2004

I don't think Honda is going after the cowboy and contractor crowd. This is for the Honda family who wants a trucklet to go along with the Odyssey, CRV, or Accord and keep them away from buying a Tacoma, Frontier, or Colorado.

My wife is psyched for this vehicle - I'm going to loose even more lawn to perennial gardens if she gets one.

ezshift5 · November 2004

..the transmission options, that is. (eg: is a manual shift in the picture?)..........ez

carlisimo · November 2004

I just found out (shouldn't have been a surprise I guess) that the Element sells more than the RSX. So, hell, this has a chance too.

I just don't see the high and angled walls to the bed helping its practicality any.

once_for_all · November 2004

I agree about the cowboy and contractor crowd. Here in my area, the big users of the Avalanche are the farm owners that don't use their truck for trucking, but need a 4wd vehicle with a bed in order to supervise their crews, haul a flat tire out of a field, etc. Then, on Friday night, something that would double up taking the family out to dinner.

In other words, a comfortable multi purpose vehicle, but not one for hauling around large trailers or heavy payloads.

John

55535432 · November 2004

Hi to all,

I'm all psyche up with the coming of Ridgeline,however I'm a bit skeptical of the minor but irritating bugs that come with any car on it's first year of production.My pilot for instance sounds off the panic alarm when I turn on the ignition fast. Other than that minor quirk it's been a pleasant 2 year ownership.The improvements on the Pilot though makes me envious of a few friends who got their 05's with more HP, and moving middle seats, traction control etc.
I'm a bit wary about placing my order for the Ridgeline this spring because I may miss out on the goodies on the later generation of Ridgelines.If ever I miss out,does anyone have any idea what important features could come out of future models the first generation may not have? What are major risks involved in getting a first generation car/truck, considering that the 03 Pilot I got was a very faithful workhorse, or was I just lucky?

Thanks for all the responses.

robr2 · November 2004

Until Honda announces the specifics, we won't know what we'll miss out on.

I was at the New England auto show in Boston yesterday. I spoke with someone from corporate who said that it will be available April 1. Pricing is unknown at this time. He said I was the first person to ask about it and he gave me a nice fold out brochure on it. My wife said she'd drive it - no problem.

big_guy · November 2004

I'm surprised that the MDX fits you better than the Pilot. Perhaps you are longer in the leg than in the torso. I'm 6'-7" and the trim around the sunroof opening on the MDX hits my head even with the seat at its lowest setting. I could lean the seat back but I hate to drive laying down.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by some of the smaller SUV's and the available room in them (namely the Equinox, Tribute, Sante Fe, and Forester). Not being a big fan of pick-ups I will pass on the Ridgline.

nowakj66 · November 2004

My height is definitely in the legs. 37" inseam. A telescoping wheel allows me to pull the wheel beyond my knee so I fit better.

chuck999 · November 2004

I think that Honda is getting into a very price-competitive market and will have to be very careful about how they price the new SUT ...

In one sense a unibody SUT with VTM AWD, Side Curtain airbags and independent rear suspension will be completely unique - and so they can charge whatever they want ! ......

But in another sense it will be another crew cab pickup fighting it out with the new Nissan Frontier and the Toyota Tacoma....

Both are probably going to be in the 25k range (through competition) but the time the Ridgeline comes out ...

If the only buyers Honda can get for this are the NON-Traditional PU buyers - i.e. drivers who could probably have made due with an SUV (i.e. Pilot) then how many can they possibly sell? ...

On the other hand, if they want to win over Taco and Frontier customers - they aren't going to be able to price this truck too much higher than the competition .....

The Tacoma is based on the 4Runner. The cheapest 4 Runners are in the 28k range. The most expensive Tacomas are 30k or so ...

By this logic - the Ridgeline should have a price overlap with the Pilot - but you SHOULD be able to get a Ridgeline TRUCK (i.e. to WORK with or trash a little on back roads) for a something less than the cheapest Pilot. If the Ridgeline prices are too close to the Pilot's - I think it may stand a chance of joining the Subaru Baja in marketing history .....

fsmmcsi · November 2004

A 2005 Toyota Tacoma DoubleCab Pre-Runner V6 (245HP, 282 Ft.-Lbs.) with the Sport&Tow package, stability control, side&head air bags, and the 6-CD sound system lists for $28,060.

The independent rear suspension and a cab which is maybe 3" - 4" wider than the competition may be the main features differentiating the Ridgeline from the others. If so, then it has to be priced very close to the others, unless the ride is very much smoother. Even though it will have an independent rear suspension, Honda may mistakenly think that people want a "rough, tough truck" ride.

However, Honda may see the opportunity in going the other direction - making the ride smooth, and adding features missing from the Tacoma - Homelink, reverse sensors, Bluetooth, factory staellite radio, automatic headlights, rain sensing wipers, exterior mirrors which dim and dip down in reverse, and a cabin air filter. If they do that, they can charge maybe $5,000 more than the others.

robr2 · November 2004

I don't think Honda is looking to win over traditional Tacoma, Frontier, et al buyers. I think they are looking to keep Honda owners from wandering over to those models.

According to the corporate person I spoke with in Boston, it's a real truck but with a much better ride and Honda qualities.

fsmmcsi · November 2004

robr2: the "much better ride" sounds like they have the right idea. I also just remembered that some of the photos of protypes on the road clearly show a large navigation screen, another indication that they may be striving to offer more confort and convenience than the the other trucks.

With the prototypes on the road for the past several months, and the formal introduction at the Detroit show in early January, I wonder why they do not plan to begin selling them until April? Did they mention anything else about the schedule?

robr2 · November 2004

Nothing else about the schedule other than April 1. The timing sounds right - intro in Detroit in January gives them 3 months to build inventory for the intro. I'd guess that they are already cranking out test mules on the new line in Alabama which is already building the new Odyssey.

As for comfort and convenience, that makes sense to me. I don't see this as a rough and tumble truck. As I noted earlier, my wife is psyched over the idea - an Odyssey with a pickup bed - I can take the kids to the nursery!! "How much mulch and peat moss can it carry?"

jchan2 · November 2004

catchy name...

and.. here's what I see happening...
The Honda Ridgeline- official car of gardeners everywhere!

atlgaxt · November 2004

Why has this discussion for the Ridgeline / SUT been banished from the "Honda by Model" discussion group listing and buried in the general Honda discussion groups? Makes no sense and makes this topic hard to find.

It is a new model isn't it, or am I just stupid because I cannot understand the Edmund's logic in terms of the placement of discussion groups?

Can this be why there have been no posts in two weeks?

Kirstie_H · November 2004

My oversight - when this discussion was created, there was no name for this vehicle and thus, I couldn't categorize it correctly. It's now fixed, and should show up in the make/model view.

atlgaxt · November 2004

Thanks for the quick response!

vertrkr · December 2004

Mini Remote Control Honda Ridgeline Available:

http://www.collegehillshonda.com/artman/publish/article_180.shtml

jchan2 · December 2004

that Honda will place ads of the Ridgeline during the superbowl. Stayed tuned! We'll be right back after these messages....

cccompson · December 2004

My Avalanche (even with the Z71 off road package) is, by far, the smoothest riding vehicle I've ever owned. Actually, it is the best riding vehicle I've ever been in. It's also the most reliable new vehicle (of about 10) that I've bought and has yet to have gone in for any warranty work in 20,000 miles.

Although I've purchased 5 new Hondas, the Ridgeline is not something that would interest me.

jchan2 · December 2004

I have a feeling its target audience are stay home moms who need something practical and easy to drive that can haul home a lotta mulch and peat moss.

Honda Ridgeline SUT

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