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Look, I think the GM twins have good exterior styling and a solid platform developed by Isuzu. It is frustrating that these trucks were not developed with the excellent GM in line six cylinder engine, which would have made them contenders. A five cylinder is a compromise design, and while it delivers OK hp, it is lacking in torque, which is important for a truck. Shoot, GM would have been better served letting Isuzu put in their excellent direct injection 3.5 litre V6, which is an excellent engine looking for a good home, or a small Isuzu diesel, which is available in this same basic truck packaged in other world markets as an Isuzu.
The other problem is the interior. I just went to the GM Autoshow in Motion and drove many of their cars. I get into a GM car and I think rental car. Even their higher end versions just make me think of a nicer rental car.
The fold down rear seat in the crew cab is a killer for me also. I don't want my dirty slobbering mutts to ride in the bed, but I don't want them to ride on the seats (they keep sliding off). The fold down seat back does not create a level surface and it sits too high, making it hard for the dogs to get in, and then when they are in they would be slobbering on my shoulder. A seat bottom that flips up leaving a low flat load floor (like a Nissan Titan) is a much more intelligent solution. If Honda does not put in a midgate, I hope they at least do a flat floor and flip up seats.
I also think GM made a mistake with the tow ratings. Even Honda is reportedly shooting for a 5,000 lb tow rating. Now I realize that tow ratings do not necessarily reflect reality, and I would not want to tow a 5,000 lb trailer with a compact or mid sized pickup (except maybe the Dakota). But let me ask you a question - Would you rather tow a 3,500 lb boat / trailer with a truck with a 4,000 lb rating or a truck with a 5,500 lb rating?
The whole GM pricing strategy is messed up also. The Colorado and Canyon can sticker for over $30k when loaded. For that price you can get a pretty nicely equipped full sized truck. Of course, no one will actually pay anywhere near $30k for a Canyon / Colorado, so GM will haul out the huge incentives, which then leads to a spiral of high depreciation.
I would have liked to see GM putting out a competitive product, and that is why these flaws are so annoying. In order to compete with the new Japanese products (Nissan, Toyota and now Honda), huge incentives will be needed. In the mean time rather then buying GM, I am waiting on the new Frontier, Tacoma and SUT.
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_cod- e=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=03298172
It seems that Honda is looking into putting cylinder deactivation technology (ala Chrysler 300C) into SUVs with the 3.5 V6. Hopefully the SUT is included. If so they'll have a real leg up on all the mini quad cabs with respect to gas mileage, probably even the GMC/Chevy twins.
All I want is a 4 door, 5 passenger vehicle with decent gas mileage, a big enough bed for some mtn bikes and the ability to tow a small boat. Doesn't seem like too much, but nobody's quite hit the mark yet. Sounds like Honda just might.
-Jason
Issues as I see it are the fact this is a more complicated system with DOHC cams as compared to push rods, making it run smooth in the three cylinder mode, and towing. I would hope that it would have a tow mode (and maybe also an off road mode) where you can defeat the system when you need to. I hope this system is available when the SUT comes out, and I am not faced with an additional wait for cylinder deactivation beyond just waiting until next Spring when the SUT should come out.
John
Honda SUT
It's a picture of the heavily disguised SUT test mule.
John
Hmmm... Sounds like they are using the acceleration device from the RL's new SH-AWD to link the front and rear axles. Wonder if it will have a clutch plate design to lock torque from side to side (a la VTM-4), or an electromagnetic coupling (like SH-AWD)?
I'm a devoted Honda customer (04 Accord, 00 Odyssey, 86 Accord, 86 Shadow 500), and I'm sure the SUT will be solid quality-wise, but I'm not impressed with its styling.
John
greetings from va beach
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John
John
While this all sounds rather ‘Accordish’ for a truck, it is. This is not meant to go head to head with giants like the F-150 and Titan; this is meant to present an alternative. The Honda SUT will offer car-like ride, handling, refinement, packaging, and interior materials. But the difference between this and an Accord or Pilot will be the five foot long cargo bed in the back (a la Explorer Sport Trac), representing a first for Honda. It should also carry plenty of standard equipment and represent a good value.
While the spy photograph here shows a toned down version of the concept, by no means will it blend in with the crowd. The angular headlights and taillights appear to remain, and the interior should rival that of the Pilot, meaning that it will surpass other light trucks by leaps and bounds. The lower front fascia has been toned down a bit, and the radical vertical handles give way to much more user friendly horizontal ones. The crisp lines of the exterior mimic those of the Pilot, on which it is based, giving it a handsome and chiseled look. With a new Odyssey this fall and the new SUT coming onto market next spring, Honda is in very good shape to set even more all-time sales records.
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John
I just think it looks a little bland. I guess I will need to see it without the tape and in a less bland color (I know people love silver, but it is bland to me). I really like the Pilot, except for the styling, (which I also think is bland) so I was hoping for a little more differentiation.
What are the chances of Acura coming out with an MDX based pick-up? Probably not good at all. Oh well, maybe it will grow on me. In any case, the looks would not stop me from buying it, but my wife's car is a Subaru Forester XT, which I also love all except its looks, and I would hate to have two ugly cars.
Also, while I have not seen firm specs, I have to believe the SUT would have a payload of at least 1,000 lbs if not a little more, especially if they are claiming towing of at least 5,000 lbs. While it is not a body on frame vehicle, I figure the Odyssey and Pilot are fairly large, and this is a pretty stout chassis. The SUT should have a better payload than the Pilot and Odyssey as I would figure it is carrying less weight around on that back end to start with.
http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/255729/06sut_bp-03.jpg
http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/255729/06sut_bp-01.jpg
http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/255729/06sut_bp-05.jpg
John
Very nice vehicle.
The Honda car-truck will be based on the same platform as the next generation Odyssey/Pilot/MDX, so should be even better than the already-excellent Pilot. A car-truck is an excellent idea. Instead of keeping all of my rattling and sliding work things in the same compartment as me and my passengers, this will give me a smooth car-like ride and a separate compartment.
I have also considered the Dodge Magnum wagon, and think it is interesting that news reports indicate that the Magnum wagon is appealing to pickup and SUV owners. I am sick and tired of my rough-riding 2002 Mountaineer. I suspect that there are a huge number of people who need the utility of a pickup or SUV, but who want a vehicle which rides and handles like a car. This is it.
The Ford Sport-Trac is the old narrow design with a solid axle and leaf springs, and the bed is too small. The Subaru car-truck bed is so small that I don't know why they bothered. Nissan, Toyota, and Dodge will have all new mid-sized pickups in 2005, but all will have solid rear axles and the associated rough ride. They will probably also be narrower than the Honda, which should have a nice wide interior like the current Pilot.
Bob
I wonder if a nice flat roof rack system will work in a pinch for small loads of 4 x 8. All else fails, there is the 5,000 lbs haul capacity for a trailer.
John
However, with the new round of spy shots, I must admit the SUT is growing on me. I also noticed that it appears to be pulling a fairly large trailer. I wonder if they have managed to get it to tow more than 5,000 lbs? 5,000 lbs would be fine for utility trailers and boats, but would limit the size of a camper it could pull.
Has anyone heard about dimensions? I am hoping for something not much longer that 215" and not much wider than 75". I think a vehicle of that size would be reasonable to drive and park. If it is much larger than that, it will be harder to make a decision to go with the Honda as compared to a larger truck like a Titan. I know that the Honda will not compete directly with the full sized trucks, but part of the reason I am avoiding buying a larger truck is the difficulty of living with one on a day to day basis in an urban environment. To me one of the advantages of buying a Honda would be if it was a little smaller, but still had adequate passenger and cargo room, along with some truck capabilities.
I am almost tempted to go check out a Pilot and see what this might feel like. I test drove an Odyssey a couple years back and it seemed to not fall into the "mini-van" dimensions. Hence, we ended up with a Mazda MPV.
Too big is a negative for me, I spent several years driving an F-150 extended cab and I don't want another that size.
John
Maybe, but for those few times you do need it, it would be very useful to have. Besides, the beauty of tha Avalanche (note: I use the word "beauty" with great discretion here) is it's almost infinite flexibility.
If you like Chevy trucks, but don't want the flexibility the Avalanche offers, buy the 1/2-ton crew cab.
I just think that pass-through that both the Avalanche and the Subaru Baja have is a great idea. I think it will come back to haunt Honda for not offering that feature. It certainly takes it off my short list of trucks to consider, or at least puts it much further down the list.
I view this new SUT as a rival for the Explorer Sport Trac, in other words a play truck, with little appeal as a work truck. I was really hoping that Honda would offer something more along the lines of the Nissan Titan or Toyota Tundra in terms of usefulness. I don't see that here I'm sorry to say.
Bob
Regarding the "midgate", I am not opposed to it, it could have its usefulness. The Baja though suffers from the fact that the rear glass stays put so it has limitations on its usefulness.
John
Bob
I really do not want the Honda to have a mid-gate, as it would add weight and cost, and might make the vehicle nosier than one without it.
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/gallery?navid=5&ca- tid=1104
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/V- EHICLE/2006/Honda/100381300/031423-E.jpg
Back before the 2002 CR-V was released, Priddy got pics of it during hot weather and towing testing. The CR-V was towing a Haulmark trailer. We looked up the Haulmarks and found that the very smallest Haulmark weighed about 1,500 lbs. We figured they must have something inside the trailer, so the estimated tow capacity was between 2,000 and 2,500 lbs. Seems reasonable, eh?
Nope. When the specs were released, the CR-V got a tow rating of 1,500 lbs.
They probably test the vehicle with lots of weight to find its limits. Then they cut that number in half for publishing. So the testing pics are not a good indicator.
However, that system is more than just a fancy valve system. It also involves sonic compensation for the vibrations created by a V6 running on only 3 cylinders. Honda uses speakers in the engine compartment to counteract the vibration of the off-balance engine by playing a contrasting frequencies. Determining the proper frequencies is pretty tricksy stuff.
The presence of a midgate has not saved the Baja from near extinction. The lack of a midgate has not stopped the SportTrak from racking up about 40K units per year. While I think a midgate would be a nice feature, I think there are bigger concerns on the minds of truck buyers.
Speaking of cost of producing V8, Honda would have to set up facilities to produce it, and the vehicles that will use it. If it happens, I doubt it will anytime soon. Perhaps it never will, and Honda will take the unconventional approach and use electric assist for added torque especially as that technology advances further. Potentially a much cheaper (and smarter) option in the future to counter the “need of V8”, with or without VCM.