Honda Ridgeline SUT

terex · May 2004

You missed the point of my question. The previous post made a comment regarding fuel prices, so my assumption was the point being made was that higher fuel economy would drive interest in the compact pickup segment as a result. Therefore, the GM twins make all the sense in the world because they deliver more horsepower and superior fuel economy than any other compact/midsize in the market (check what owners of the Twins are getting as fuel economy. The magazine trial isn't typical of what's being reported in the real world. There are many other sites with reports of consistent 18-22 MPG.) Regardless, if horsepower is all that floats your boat, then no compact makes sense regardless of fuel prices and/or fuel economy. Just go buy a full-size pickup and benefit from higher incentives and their available V8's. As for the Honda SUT holding its value, that depends on whether they sell. It appears the jury is still out on that account.

atlgaxt · May 2004

My point was that fuel prices and new product (starting with the GM twins and adding the new Frontier, Tacoma, Dakota and Honda SUT) will create more interest in the smaller truck category which has been languishing. Within this category, the GM twins offer good EPA numbers, but that is just one of a multiple factors that buyers will consider when making a final decision.

Look, I think the GM twins have good exterior styling and a solid platform developed by Isuzu. It is frustrating that these trucks were not developed with the excellent GM in line six cylinder engine, which would have made them contenders. A five cylinder is a compromise design, and while it delivers OK hp, it is lacking in torque, which is important for a truck. Shoot, GM would have been better served letting Isuzu put in their excellent direct injection 3.5 litre V6, which is an excellent engine looking for a good home, or a small Isuzu diesel, which is available in this same basic truck packaged in other world markets as an Isuzu.

The other problem is the interior. I just went to the GM Autoshow in Motion and drove many of their cars. I get into a GM car and I think rental car. Even their higher end versions just make me think of a nicer rental car.

The fold down rear seat in the crew cab is a killer for me also. I don't want my dirty slobbering mutts to ride in the bed, but I don't want them to ride on the seats (they keep sliding off). The fold down seat back does not create a level surface and it sits too high, making it hard for the dogs to get in, and then when they are in they would be slobbering on my shoulder. A seat bottom that flips up leaving a low flat load floor (like a Nissan Titan) is a much more intelligent solution. If Honda does not put in a midgate, I hope they at least do a flat floor and flip up seats.

I also think GM made a mistake with the tow ratings. Even Honda is reportedly shooting for a 5,000 lb tow rating. Now I realize that tow ratings do not necessarily reflect reality, and I would not want to tow a 5,000 lb trailer with a compact or mid sized pickup (except maybe the Dakota). But let me ask you a question - Would you rather tow a 3,500 lb boat / trailer with a truck with a 4,000 lb rating or a truck with a 5,500 lb rating?

The whole GM pricing strategy is messed up also. The Colorado and Canyon can sticker for over $30k when loaded. For that price you can get a pretty nicely equipped full sized truck. Of course, no one will actually pay anywhere near $30k for a Canyon / Colorado, so GM will haul out the huge incentives, which then leads to a spiral of high depreciation.

I would have liked to see GM putting out a competitive product, and that is why these flaws are so annoying. In order to compete with the new Japanese products (Nissan, Toyota and now Honda), huge incentives will be needed. In the mean time rather then buying GM, I am waiting on the new Frontier, Tacoma and SUT.

jaserb · May 2004

While we're on the subject, did anyone see the story on AutoWeek?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_cod- e=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=03298172

It seems that Honda is looking into putting cylinder deactivation technology (ala Chrysler 300C) into SUVs with the 3.5 V6. Hopefully the SUT is included. If so they'll have a real leg up on all the mini quad cabs with respect to gas mileage, probably even the GMC/Chevy twins.

All I want is a 4 door, 5 passenger vehicle with decent gas mileage, a big enough bed for some mtn bikes and the ability to tow a small boat. Doesn't seem like too much, but nobody's quite hit the mark yet. Sounds like Honda just might.

-Jason

atlgaxt · May 2004

Very interesting. My guess is that the SUT would have already had decent fuel economy for a truck as the Pilot gets 17 city / 22 hwy, and the SUT should be a little lighter with maybe a little better economy. I'm guessing with the fuel shut off, at least 20 city / 25 hwy might be achievable. That would definitely make me wait for the SUT to come out before I make a decision, and would help me forget about the lack of a midgate, although I hope one might still be included.

Issues as I see it are the fact this is a more complicated system with DOHC cams as compared to push rods, making it run smooth in the three cylinder mode, and towing. I would hope that it would have a tow mode (and maybe also an off road mode) where you can defeat the system when you need to. I hope this system is available when the SUT comes out, and I am not faced with an additional wait for cylinder deactivation beyond just waiting until next Spring when the SUT should come out.

atlgaxt · June 2004

It had a short article on the SUT concept. It said the 3.5 would come with cylinder deactivation offering 25% better fuel economy than competing V-6 models. Very interesting. Will definitely have to wait for more info on the SUT before getting something else.

once_for_all · June 2004

the SUT is on my list in '06 to replace my '03 Forester, but my Subaru bucks might steer me towards the new 7 seater that Subaru is coming out with. There is a possibility that the Baja might be based on a larger platform, and this could put the SUT and the Baja in the same arena.

John

varmint · June 2004

Thanks to Geekspeaker for finding this.

Honda SUT

It's a picture of the heavily disguised SUT test mule.

atlgaxt · June 2004

Wow. That is really cool man. Where can I place my order? Do you think a $5k non-refundable deposit will be enough?

once_for_all · June 2004

from Honda apparently the SUT is coming out in '05. Full time 4wd, variable torque, etc.

John

varmint · June 2004

"Full time 4wd, variable torque, etc."

Hmmm... Sounds like they are using the acceleration device from the RL's new SH-AWD to link the front and rear axles. Wonder if it will have a clutch plate design to lock torque from side to side (a la VTM-4), or an electromagnetic coupling (like SH-AWD)?

briguy5254 · July 2004

I gotta say that IMO the front of the SUT looks an awful lot like the Element's nose (i.e. Not good!). Also, the interior looks very Element-like (again not good, cheap looking).

I'm a devoted Honda customer (04 Accord, 00 Odyssey, 86 Accord, 86 Shadow 500), and I'm sure the SUT will be solid quality-wise, but I'm not impressed with its styling.

once_for_all · July 2004

I agree, if the SUT's dash is a knock off of the Element, I will be looking elsewhere. The 1970 retro-AMC gauge look of the Element sent me checking out and buying my Subaru Forester.

John

jfigueroa1 · July 2004

this new suv/truck it looks very nice any idea on the pricing for this unit.
greetings from va beach

PF_Flyer · July 2004

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player4 · July 2004

MY06 Intro; based on Odyssey platform; light-duty cross-over vehicle. 3.7-3.8L V6 - 270+ hp/tq, 5000lb towing capacity

once_for_all · July 2004

what are you talking about? Is this different from the SUT which is based on the Pilot platform? Where can I find out more?

John

player4 · July 2004

The 2006 Honda Pick-Up it will be named either Ridgeline or Rockline, thats all. and thast the only info i found i cant state the source because mods wont let me so i cant tell u where i got it from, i would like to tell u but i cant.

atlgaxt · July 2004

Pilot is also on the Odyssey platform. Player - have you heard if this new engine will have cylinder deactivation?

player4 · July 2004

I heard if it gets the 3.5 from the ODY it will have VCM, but i havent heard if it still will have VCM with the 3.7 or 3.8.

once_for_all · July 2004

I guess we are talking about the SUT, it is supposedly available in May of '05. Honda must be calling it an '06 model. Rockline or Ridgeline gives that outdoorsy connotation all purpose no nonsense sound.

John

player4 · July 2004

Shown here is a spy picture of the upcoming 2006 Honda SUT, or Sport Utility Truck, to debut in spring 2005. The original concept, released at the NAIAS in Detroit last December, showed a rather radical approach on the pickup truck. In typical Honda fashion, the concept Honda SUT may turn out to be a rather groundbreaking vehicle. Instead of creating a typical pickup truck with a massive V8 engine, body on frame chassis and leaf springs, Honda has stuck to the award winning and best selling formula that has produced the runaway hits MDX and Pilot. Honda is using an all-aluminum V6 engine, presumably the same one found in the MDX/Pilot making around 250 horsepower, a four wheel independent suspension, and their spectacular VTM-4 all wheel drive system.

While this all sounds rather ‘Accordish’ for a truck, it is. This is not meant to go head to head with giants like the F-150 and Titan; this is meant to present an alternative. The Honda SUT will offer car-like ride, handling, refinement, packaging, and interior materials. But the difference between this and an Accord or Pilot will be the five foot long cargo bed in the back (a la Explorer Sport Trac), representing a first for Honda. It should also carry plenty of standard equipment and represent a good value.

While the spy photograph here shows a toned down version of the concept, by no means will it blend in with the crowd. The angular headlights and taillights appear to remain, and the interior should rival that of the Pilot, meaning that it will surpass other light trucks by leaps and bounds. The lower front fascia has been toned down a bit, and the radical vertical handles give way to much more user friendly horizontal ones. The crisp lines of the exterior mimic those of the Pilot, on which it is based, giving it a handsome and chiseled look. With a new Odyssey this fall and the new SUT coming onto market next spring, Honda is in very good shape to set even more all-time sales records.

jjman · July 2004

This actually looks a lot better then the prototype version. I am looking for a truck by next year and if the SUT can hold a decent payload I will be trying it out.

player4 · July 2004

Rumors are going around saying that it can hal up to 5000 pounds.....is this enough for you?

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once_for_all · July 2004

photos, I really like the lines. This is what I was hoping for.

John

jjman · July 2004

I meant the payload in the bed area. If it can hold up to 1k lbs then I am all for it. I am not sure I will be utilizing it much for towing, although you can never tell about the future and idle cash (i.e. boat, rv ...etc..)

atlgaxt · July 2004

I love the idea of this truck and it sounds like Honda will hit a bulls eye in the personal user market.

I just think it looks a little bland. I guess I will need to see it without the tape and in a less bland color (I know people love silver, but it is bland to me). I really like the Pilot, except for the styling, (which I also think is bland) so I was hoping for a little more differentiation.

What are the chances of Acura coming out with an MDX based pick-up? Probably not good at all. Oh well, maybe it will grow on me. In any case, the looks would not stop me from buying it, but my wife's car is a Subaru Forester XT, which I also love all except its looks, and I would hate to have two ugly cars.

Also, while I have not seen firm specs, I have to believe the SUT would have a payload of at least 1,000 lbs if not a little more, especially if they are claiming towing of at least 5,000 lbs. While it is not a body on frame vehicle, I figure the Odyssey and Pilot are fairly large, and this is a pretty stout chassis. The SUT should have a better payload than the Pilot and Odyssey as I would figure it is carrying less weight around on that back end to start with.

robertsmx · July 2004

I hope they dont come out with an Acura version. It makes little sense (to me) to have a luxury pickup. Some new spy pictures have emerged and posted at vtec.net. Here is the link.

player4 · July 2004

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=255729

http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/255729/06sut_bp-03.jpg

http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/255729/06sut_bp-01.jpg

http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/255729/06sut_bp-05.jpg

once_for_all · July 2004

a bit of the Avalanche. Of course, if it is a tad smaller than the Avalanche all the way around (something like the Sport Trac), rides like a car, has AWD, and gets 25 mpg, I don't particularly care what it looks like.

John

anythngbutgm · July 2004

Can't say I was a huge fan of the concept, but the finished product is pretty attractive! Agree with Robertsmx on this one, look to the Lincoln Blackwood if you want to see where luxury pickups stand in the market. Not good. Trucks, or quasi-trucks in this case are about utility. Throw dirt in the bed, bringing stuff to the dump, HD runs. Save the Luxury stuff for a luxury sedan or SUV.

Very nice vehicle.

fsmmcsi · July 2004

Thanks a bunch for the excellent photos. The silver one here looks better than the one in the Brenda Priddy photos elsewhere. I don't understand the square wheel arches over round tires, but care more about the usefulness of the car-truck.

The Honda car-truck will be based on the same platform as the next generation Odyssey/Pilot/MDX, so should be even better than the already-excellent Pilot. A car-truck is an excellent idea. Instead of keeping all of my rattling and sliding work things in the same compartment as me and my passengers, this will give me a smooth car-like ride and a separate compartment.

I have also considered the Dodge Magnum wagon, and think it is interesting that news reports indicate that the Magnum wagon is appealing to pickup and SUV owners. I am sick and tired of my rough-riding 2002 Mountaineer. I suspect that there are a huge number of people who need the utility of a pickup or SUV, but who want a vehicle which rides and handles like a car. This is it.

The Ford Sport-Trac is the old narrow design with a solid axle and leaf springs, and the bed is too small. The Subaru car-truck bed is so small that I don't know why they bothered. Nissan, Toyota, and Dodge will have all new mid-sized pickups in 2005, but all will have solid rear axles and the associated rough ride. They will probably also be narrower than the Honda, which should have a nice wide interior like the current Pilot.

rsholland · July 2004

it would be 4'x8'-friendly, but it sure doesn't look like it. If it had an Avalanche/Baja-like pass-through, it could be.

Bob

once_for_all · July 2004

I have heard that studies indicate that few Avalanche owners ever use that feature. The merits, vs the downside (extra cost, gasket sealing/noice issues ahead, sucking in exhaust and dust in some conditions, etc) may not be worth the pass-through.

I wonder if a nice flat roof rack system will work in a pinch for small loads of 4 x 8. All else fails, there is the 5,000 lbs haul capacity for a trailer.

John

atlgaxt · July 2004

I was kidding about the Acura pickup. It is just that my personal styling preference is for the MDX over the Pilot.

However, with the new round of spy shots, I must admit the SUT is growing on me. I also noticed that it appears to be pulling a fairly large trailer. I wonder if they have managed to get it to tow more than 5,000 lbs? 5,000 lbs would be fine for utility trailers and boats, but would limit the size of a camper it could pull.

Has anyone heard about dimensions? I am hoping for something not much longer that 215" and not much wider than 75". I think a vehicle of that size would be reasonable to drive and park. If it is much larger than that, it will be harder to make a decision to go with the Honda as compared to a larger truck like a Titan. I know that the Honda will not compete directly with the full sized trucks, but part of the reason I am avoiding buying a larger truck is the difficulty of living with one on a day to day basis in an urban environment. To me one of the advantages of buying a Honda would be if it was a little smaller, but still had adequate passenger and cargo room, along with some truck capabilities.

once_for_all · July 2004

yes, dimensions are what I want info on too. I hear that it is a three seat bench in the back, so it can't be as narrow as the Sport Trac.

I am almost tempted to go check out a Pilot and see what this might feel like. I test drove an Odyssey a couple years back and it seemed to not fall into the "mini-van" dimensions. Hence, we ended up with a Mazda MPV.

Too big is a negative for me, I spent several years driving an F-150 extended cab and I don't want another that size.

John

fsmmcsi · July 2004

I doubt it will be narrower than the current generation Pilot (just under 78"), and estimate that it will be 207" long.

rsholland · July 2004

I have heard that studies indicate that few Avalanche owners ever use that feature. The merits, vs the downside (extra cost, gasket sealing/noice issues ahead, sucking in exhaust and dust in some conditions, etc) may not be worth the pass-through.

Maybe, but for those few times you do need it, it would be very useful to have. Besides, the beauty of tha Avalanche (note: I use the word "beauty" with great discretion here) is it's almost infinite flexibility.

If you like Chevy trucks, but don't want the flexibility the Avalanche offers, buy the 1/2-ton crew cab.

I just think that pass-through that both the Avalanche and the Subaru Baja have is a great idea. I think it will come back to haunt Honda for not offering that feature. It certainly takes it off my short list of trucks to consider, or at least puts it much further down the list.

I view this new SUT as a rival for the Explorer Sport Trac, in other words a play truck, with little appeal as a work truck. I was really hoping that Honda would offer something more along the lines of the Nissan Titan or Toyota Tundra in terms of usefulness. I don't see that here I'm sorry to say.

Bob

hairong · July 2004

Ford is finally updating the SportTrac: moving it to the new explorer platform in '06. It will be bigger and wider than the current one, and riding on IRS chassis. Don't know if it will have "midgate" or not. If it also comes with no "midgate", then we will know it truely is just a gimmick feature for marketing purpose.

once_for_all · July 2004

what is an "IRS" chassis (hopeful not something the taxing branch of government approved :-). If we are talking about an independent suspension (no solid axle/leaf spring combination in the rear end) that could be an interesting unit.

Regarding the "midgate", I am not opposed to it, it could have its usefulness. The Baja though suffers from the fact that the rear glass stays put so it has limitations on its usefulness.

John

rsholland · July 2004

Regarding the Baja, I agree; but any opening is better than no opening IMO.

Bob

robertsmx · July 2004

Explorer was given independent rear suspension (IRS) with the last redesign. I assume that the current SportTrac, however, continues to ride on (the old) non-IRS platform, and 2006 will use the current Explorer platform.

fsmmcsi · July 2004

I own a 2002 Mercury Mountaineer (same vehicle as the Ford Explorer) RWD (rear wheel drive) V8 and it rides rough, even with the IRS (independent rear suspension). I think that the current Pilot / Odyssey / MDX ride much smoother, so am very hopeful that the car-truck on the next generation Honda platform is also very smooth and quiet. If not, why bother with a car-truck? The only reason to want a car-truck instead of a truck is a smoother and quieter ride with car-like handling.

I really do not want the Honda to have a mid-gate, as it would add weight and cost, and might make the vehicle nosier than one without it.

fsmmcsi · July 2004

While it is likely that I will buy the Honda car-truck, I sure wish it looked like the one Holden (GM) makes in Australia:

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/gallery?navid=5&ca- tid=1104

player4 · August 2004

I just found this pic here at Edmunds Future Vehicle thing, adn thought this might be new....is it??

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/V- EHICLE/2006/Honda/100381300/031423-E.jpg

atlgaxt · August 2004

Yea, that looks like a new shot taken from the same test as the others I would assume.

varmint · August 2004

I wouldn't use the size of the trailer in the Priddy pics as an indicator of how much the SUT can tow.

Back before the 2002 CR-V was released, Priddy got pics of it during hot weather and towing testing. The CR-V was towing a Haulmark trailer. We looked up the Haulmarks and found that the very smallest Haulmark weighed about 1,500 lbs. We figured they must have something inside the trailer, so the estimated tow capacity was between 2,000 and 2,500 lbs. Seems reasonable, eh?

Nope. When the specs were released, the CR-V got a tow rating of 1,500 lbs.

They probably test the vehicle with lots of weight to find its limits. Then they cut that number in half for publishing. So the testing pics are not a good indicator.

varmint · August 2004

In recent months Honda has stated that they are investigating the potential for adding VCM (variable cylinder management) for their trucks. This is the fuel economy saver that is expected in both the Accord Hybrid and the new Ody.

However, that system is more than just a fancy valve system. It also involves sonic compensation for the vibrations created by a V6 running on only 3 cylinders. Honda uses speakers in the engine compartment to counteract the vibration of the off-balance engine by playing a contrasting frequencies. Determining the proper frequencies is pretty tricksy stuff.

The presence of a midgate has not saved the Baja from near extinction. The lack of a midgate has not stopped the SportTrak from racking up about 40K units per year. While I think a midgate would be a nice feature, I think there are bigger concerns on the minds of truck buyers.

fsmmcsi · August 2004

Honda really needs to stop the baloney and build a proper V8. Cylinder de-activation would then be easy, and they would finally have an engine with good torque. The GM LS1/LS6 and Chrysler Hemi prove that a simple pushrod design produces plenty of power and the HEMI proves that cylinder de-activation really works. I'll bet it costs GM and DCX less to build their pushrod V8 engines than it costs Honda to build their V6.

robertsmx · August 2004

Cylinder deactivation seems to really work well in Honda Inspire (Japan) as a person who has actually driven it commented on it. So, I dont see your point. BTW, Honda Inspire is basically American Accord with cosmetic changes and a slightly more powerful version of the 3.0/V6 with the VCM (250 HP/218 lb.-ft).

Speaking of cost of producing V8, Honda would have to set up facilities to produce it, and the vehicles that will use it. If it happens, I doubt it will anytime soon. Perhaps it never will, and Honda will take the unconventional approach and use electric assist for added torque especially as that technology advances further. Potentially a much cheaper (and smarter) option in the future to counter the need of V8, with or without VCM.

Honda Ridgeline SUT

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