Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Hybrid Honda Accord

1515254565766

Comments

  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    That's an un-controlled, non-scientific method. You should compare the scientifically-rigorous MPG tests:

    Odyssey with VCM = 28 mpg highway. That's +16% more fuel economy.

    And no need for a battery.

    Honda could do the same with an Accord V6 (non-hybrid), enabling a 3-cylinder VCM mode, and get 36 mpg highway! No need to add a battery.

    troy
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It's obvious that the folks on this board are biased towards hybrid.

    Uh, yeah, that would be expected given the subject of the discussion: Honda Accord Hybrid. For instance, when I go to the Mazda3 discussion, I expect the people in there to be interested in talking about the Mazda3--not alternatives to the Mazda3. It's curious to me why the hybrid discussions--the discussions dedicated to discussions of particular hybrid models--turn out to be debating forums for alternatives. There's plenty of other outlets for those kinds of discussions.
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    "The way the Accord Hybrid works when you demand acceleration:
    ---(first) Deactivate 3-cylinder mode... go to 6-cylinder mode.
    ---(last) Turn on IMA.
    There's no such thing as a 3-cylinder+IMA mode"

    Sorry, this is simply wrong!

    I have tried it MANY times and it documented in the IMA supplement to the driver's manual. When cruising in ECO the first to activate on light to moderate throttle is the IMA. If more power is needed the IMA stays on and the ECO THEN goes off. I, again have seen ECO on with IMA indication followed by untirupted ECO mode upon release of the increased throttle. I can reporduce it any time. This functions also occur at lower speeds but is a little harder to regulate. In almost all circumstances the IMA provides additional power when an increase in throttle possition is detected. After a little practice it is possible to stay in ECO mode almost all the time (at speed) with the IMA coming on and off as needed.

    If you still don't believe me read the last line from this quote from Honda News:

    http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2128?mid=2004091737214&mime=asc

    "When the driver minimizes accelerator input at cruising speed, a number of fuel saving operations begin. First, the Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) system can deactivate the engine's rear bank of three cylinders to effectively cut fuel consumption in half. At the same time, the IMA's Intelligent Power Unit turns the IMA motor into a generator to begin regenerative braking and the IMA display's green bars illuminate to show the level of electrical energy being created. If, during cruising, power is required to maintain speed, the IMA motor will offer assist while the rear cylinders remain inactive."
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I think variable displacement motors by themselves only offer a MODEST mileage increase at cruise. The numbers I have seen for those w/o an electric assist motor do not seem that great (VS standard gas motors). It makes sense the shutting off the 3 cylinders and leaving them off as long as possible would be better than having to fire them up everytime a little more power was needed.

    So if Honda used the same V-6 w/o the IMA drive I don't think you would see nearly has high an increase in highway MPG.

    Dennis
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Troy,

    I am with you. Another posbility is higher gearing. This could apply to standards and automatics. Look at the tall gear a Corvette has to achieve 25 mpg highway.

    While VCM is currnetly only applied to the HAH and the Odessey, there is nothing to suggest that it wouln't work with ALL v6s.

    I think maybe the reasons the auto-stop, IMA, better CD, low rolling resistant tires, weight minimization ( no spare , no sunroff), VCM, tall gearing , desel (future), 6 pseed manual (future) are all religated only to the HAH is to make it more dramatic. There was one very good previous analysis that indicated how much each component contributed to the mileage gain.

    But from a sales standpoint, If you are a Honda executive and could sell a HAH for $,3000 more or could add only VCM to an existing V6 and achieve 15% better mileage (30+15% =34.5 mpg) for $300 Do you think a VCM V6 would cut into or completlely eliminate the HAH sales ?

    Likewise Honda could have gone the slow route that Toyota did but Honda has already seen that high mileage isn't the only thing people want or the HCH would be selling better and Honda wouldn't be dropping the Insight.

    Much of the mpg acieved by Hondas earlier high mpg cars was through wide gear spacing. However, this was never applied to the whole car line most were left with a very low high gear around 20 mile per thousand RPMs.

    For a good glimpse of Hondas vision of the future look at the direction the 2006 Civic is going :) or their European diesel direction.

    YMMV, MidCow
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    ...Is the fact that the IMA component does more than provide increased mileage!

    It adds a lot more torque at low end and more power through the whole power band.

    Sip...sip...sip...VROOOOOM!

    Accord Hybrid ROCKS!!!

    :P
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    If you search this thread is shows most of this has already been discussed before.

    Anyway, I knew somewhere (#594) it was posted how much each component contributed to the HAH mileage gain. It was :


    To break down efficiency gained by HAH in city and highway combined over EX-V6:

    IMA: 17%
    Idle Stop: 5%
    VCM: 10%
    Aerodynamic: 1%
    Overall: 33%(margin of error: 2%)



    RTFT,

    MidCow
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    Good post MidCow!

    It would be inetersting to see that broken down into different driving conditions. IE highway/city etc.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi All:

    ET, you may be an engineer but you are not a hybrid engineer by far. As has been posted, the AH uses IMA to maintain VCM and this does add a bit of FE on top of VCM itself. Auto-stop and assist also help the AH receive far better FE then its V6 brethren in the city and can run circles around it in the performance arena.

    With that, we have three AH owners with > 39 mpg segments now and two were in IL. and WI. within the past few days. These AH’s are not only new, they still have a few more mpg’s to be rung from them with warmer weather. What more needs to be said? A hypermiler could squeeze 40 out of the V6 but 2 of the three of these AH pilots are not hypermilers but are simply new AH owners. Care to find an Accord V6 anywhere that has received 39 mpg over a lengthy segment?

    Midnightcowboy, the ball is in your court. When you hit 39 mpg, let us know.

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Odyssey with VCM = 28 mpg highway. That's +16% more fuel economy.

    And no need for a battery.

    Honda could do the same with an Accord V6 (non-hybrid), enabling a 3-cylinder VCM mode, and get 36 mpg highway! No need to add a battery."

    I owned a 2002 Honda Odyssey, 3.5L, 240 HP. I got 27 MPG on the highway. Only about 18-19 in town. No VCM on that model! I think there is something wrong with the software programming for the VCM on the 2005 models. They do not seem to be increasing the mileage to any significant amount.
  • mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    I think auto manufacturers need to think even further out side the box re: technologies. Hybrids are a good start. I think more R&D w/ help from US goverment needs to get cars in the 70 plus mpg or more. Hydrogen and other technologies must be explored. We need to get our economy (as much as possible) out of the Arab's control. :)
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    The serious answer is mass transit, which the US is very very poor at FULLY and EFFECTIVELY implemented. The governement maybe, but what do car manufacturers have to gain ? They look for increased sales and distinguishing their vehicles from the rest. Customers want performance and features which are counter to high mpg. Twenty (20) years ago we had 50 mpg cars, but now we have big SUVS and performance sedans. Hybrids and high mileage vehicles are less than 1% of total vehicles. You really think we are trying to become independent of Arab oil ?

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    They let the manufacturers decide what is a "car" and what is a "truck" and then have lower CAFE numbers for "trucks". Then they don't even count really heavy "trucks" at all toward CAFE (Hummer, etc). They let folks like MB merge with Chrysler and then combine the numbers so that MB does not have to pay any CAFE fines for failing to meet standard - the Mopar cars bring up the average. No gas guzzler tax on a "truck" either. Congress bends to pressure of the auto industry and does not raise CAFE standard.

    The manufactures love SUVs since they make maybe 2x per unit that they make on a car.

    If we have < $2 gas and the manufacturer is not paying heavy CAFE fines that should raise the price of the heavy SUVs and trucks there is not much incentive to NOT buy them.

    If we have to have high gas prices, and it is going to get more expensive later on this year, then the side benefit may be to slow the sale of guzzlers and stimulate sales of more economical cars.

    "Mass transit" where I live is just pitiful and is about only used by the poor, the folks who have lost their license, and the few folks that work right downtown.

    Dennis
  • vietviet Member Posts: 847
    I just put a rather new low mile engine/ transmission in my 95 Accord EX after 200K miles and it runs so perfectly, so beautifully.

    Following is my list of happiness for today:

    1- My ultimate Heaven: Brand new Accord Hybrid 2005 at 2100 miles.

    2- My second Heaven: Accord V6 EX Coupe 2003 at 25K miles.

    3- My third Heaven: Accord V6 EX Sedan 2002 at 27K miles.

    4- My lovely baby/ fourth Heaven on earth: Accord I4 EX 1995 (with 1996 engine/ transmission at less than 20K miles, 4 new brakes, 4 new tires, new AC freon, just washed and "pampered" it this morning).

    I love this Accord I4 95 baby the most. He is so lovely, so dependent and so loyal to me during the last 10 years and 3 months. This baby has never broken down whatsoever in the last 10 years plus.

    Bravo Honda ! Honda Civic, Insight, Pilot. S2000, NSX, Element, Odessey, Accord, Accord hybrid...win again and again. I love my Honda fleet. Have a good weekend folks. All my Honda Accord keep purring and revving so proudly every single day, rain or shine.

    PS: Sorry if I have not provided you folks with better updates on my HAH. It runs so nicely and so fast. My MPG is always 30 - 40 plus. What should I ask for more for a 255 HP Accord which sips fuel just a little tiny? When Honda says 255 HP it means 255 HP or more. I have been "insane" with my HAH and all my other Accord.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Viet,

    I like your enthusiasm, have you ever thought about putting a Borla exhaust on you HAH. They really sound sweet. Quiet when you want it to be cruis'n and driving easy . Nice sound when you give it gas or WOT and it would add another 8hp to your 255 making 263 WOW!

    Cheers,

    MidCow,

    P.S. - BAD NEWS my first dent even though ooh so minor. Some Yahooh (not my real thought but you get the idea) at a Lowes, Had to slam open the door of his truck. You can barely see it But I know.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    PDR would probably take care of that in a jiffy. Beware Eldorados and Monte Carlos.
  • vietviet Member Posts: 847
    My enthusiasm with Honda/ Accord does cost me lot of money and valuable time. I can drive my "reborn" Accord 1996 2.2 liters for another 8 - 10 years. But I probably will sell it to buy another new car when my finance position is a little bit more flexible. I was lucky to be able to buy a rather new Accord 1996 engine and transmission with less than 20K miles at a very good price to put in my "loyal baby". Now my "little baby" purs like a kitten. It accelerates and runs real smooth like new. It runs 80+ MPH on highway without vibration. Handling, maneuvering and cornering are all very good. Thanks to my excellent mechanic who spent 3 days to put in the new engine for me. Amazingly, its previous 10+ year old engine ran very smoothly until the end of its life when it burned oil and I decided to replace it. Otherwise I have to carry 2 quarts of oil in my trunk at all time.

    However, when I start the engine of my Accord hybrid it is quite different. The engine just VROOOOOOM and then it runs so quietly and unnoticeably just like AZHAH put it.

    I guess people cannot and should not just rebuild their old cars over and over to drive it for so long. The HAH's good low end torque is very much noticeable and "the thinner transmission" is very smooth. I get "ECO" light on very often even at 40 MPH. And the MPG is getting better after the break-in. I guess Honda hybrid engineers had to pull their hair real hard to come up with a very good design for that car.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi All:

    A nice 139 mile ride home in somewhat colder temps in a new friends AH yesterday … Believe me, she is good for even more with a few more miles and a bit warmer temperatures :D

    image

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    Wayne,

    What were the mileage results on the uphill leg, without the tailwind?
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Blane:

    There was no uphill or downhill as it was Madison, WI. to Gurnee, IL. The rolling hills in SE Wi. w/ an ~ 7 - 10 mph side wind held me too ~ 43 mpg give or take a few tenths. Once the hills were cleared, the FCD took off with an ~ 5 - 7 mph tailwind about 20 degrees off the rear. The FCD was still climbing fast over those last 50 miles vs. the first 90 miles as you can well imagine. Overall, expect to see a 55 mpg segment from someone in an AH sometime this summer in one with 10,000 + miles as this AH has here.

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Blane:

    There was no uphill or downhill as it was Madison, WI. to Gurnee, IL. The rolling hills in SE Wi. w/ an ~ 7 - 10 mph side wind held me too ~ 43 mpg give or take a few tenths. Once the hills were cleared, the FCD took off with an ~ 5 - 7 mph tailwind about 20 degrees off the rear. The FCD was still climbing fast over those last 50 miles vs. the first 90 miles as you can well imagine. Overall, expect to see a 55 mpg segment from someone in an AH sometime this summer in one with 10,000 + miles as this AH has ~ 5,000 miles on the clock when we left yesterday morning.

    You can read more about the details here.

    I do not know why the last sentence disappeared above?

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • vietviet Member Posts: 847
    Thanks Wayne. Your info. about the AH's MPG is great.
  • mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    Hello,
    Question for guy with 10(11) year old Accord, how many miles on it and how much to replace tranny ect? Also, I have been on boards and there have been allot of reports of rattles and squeaks... anyone experience this? I can't stand a car that has rattles or squeaks. to me=bad engineering (unseen bad fit and finish).

    Re: door dent, you can get those out at the dealer or private company that will come to you. They generally charge 55-65 per "panel" so it almost worth it to see if another idiot hits your car. That is a huge pet peeve of mine.
    Mike V :)
  • vietviet Member Posts: 847
    Hi Mevande,

    Get into this link to check on used Accord engine and transmission on sale:

    http://www.d-a-p.com/shop/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=13561

    My Accord EX 95 I4 had 200K miles on it (My Accord LX 1992, made in Japan, had 250K+ miles on it and it still runs now. I gave it away a while ago). The Accord 95's old engine still ran fine and smoothly but it burned oil so I replaced the engine and transmission. It costed me much cheaper than Honda dealer as I carefully did good researches and managed the project wisely within my budget. I now use Mobil 1 synthetic oil to "pamper my reborn baby Accord" just like I have been using that oil on my other new V6 Accord/ Hybrid. Please note that a brand- new Accord 95 I4 engine at Honda dealership costs about $7,500 - $8,000+. Transmission is charged differently. When you replace the engine you better also replace the transmission to get a great match. Be sure to hire a competent and trustworthy mechanic to do the job.

    Now, my "reborn" Accord 95 (now "was naturalized" as 96) continues to hum and rev up its new powerful engine so proudly as it has been dependent to me for the last 10+ years. There has never been a single breakdown, not even once as I keep good care of it. It keeps running and running like it has been afraid it will not have other chances to run again. I will keep this little baby 10+ years old Accord to drive around for my chores as it is considered new and is able to run at 85 + MPH on highway so smoothly and so beautifully. The replacement project did drain out my pocket a little bit to buy everything new to put in (4 new spark plugs, new coolant, new tranmission oil, new timing belts, new water pump, new valves gasket cover, Mobil 1 Synthetic oil, 4 new tires, 4 new brakes, 4 wheel alignment, new AC freon, etc). Otherwise, other parts are still original including the starter, muffler, leather seats. I just washed it and put in some new music CD. The CD/ radio system continues to "boom, bang, boooooox..." real nicely to soothe off my long working days dealing with "professional pissing off faces" around my office.

    It is really worth my hard-earned money. I use my other new Accords on pleasure trips and enjoyment.
  • vietviet Member Posts: 847
    Hi Mevande,

    Please remember to add shipping charge if you buy used Accord engine from the guy I gave you the link. If you can buy the engine at your local town that would be best to save shipping cost. That guy charges you about $100 for shipping the engine. Extra shipping charge for transmission is for sure.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    "If, during Accord Hybrid cruising, power is required to maintain speed, the IMA motor will offer assist while the rear cylinders remain inactive."

    .

    Interesting! I wish Honda had used that programming in the Civic & Insight. These two cars uses "lean-burn" for about 30% less fuel burned during cruising. However when extra power is required, the IMA Motor is the *last* thing used:
    (1) Deactivate lean-burn
    (2) If still not enough power, turn on Motor.

    It would have been nice if Honda kept the lean-burn active, while providing Electric assist.

    troy
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    In the old carb days, they had "accelerator pumps" on them - little diaphragms that would inject a nice blob of gas into the cab when you moved the accelerator from "Rest". This was to keep it from starving for gas until the rest of the fuel system caught up. Getting max mileage meant holding a pretty steady throttle position since much variance meant the pump coming into play. Back off too much, and the pump would do its thing when you get back on the gas.

    No more worries with that now in the FI days, with learn burn, cylinders that deactivate, and IMA :-)

    Dennis
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "- My ultimate Heaven: Brand new Accord Hybrid 2005 at 2100 miles.

    2- My second Heaven: Accord V6 EX Coupe 2003 at 25K miles.

    3- My third Heaven: Accord V6 EX Sedan 2002 at 27K miles"

    Hi Viet,

    you know the saying: One Person's Nirvana is another person's Hell!

    Just kidding---glad to hear you are enjoying your HAH.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Has anybody seen the latest Consumer Reports test of the HAH?

    They liked the car a lot.

    I found it interesting that highway mileage was 37 mpg - 1 mpg worse than a Chevy Malibu with the 3.5 liter V-6.
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    How ironic!!!

    My nieghbor across the street was comparing notes with me just yesterday. He bought a 4cyl Malibu a month after I bought my Hybrid. He said he mostly bought it because of the EPA highway rating of 35 MPG that was posted on it. He's a little upset because todate he's barely broken 30 MPG on highway trips. I told him to give it some time as he only has 1200 miles on it so far. Still considering the V6 version is rated 3 MPG less I'm VERY surprised that someone is reporting 38 MPG on this model. I'd like to know where you read/saw this?
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    "I found it interesting that highway mileage was 37 mpg - 1 mpg worse than a Chevy Malibu with the 3.5 liter V-6. "

    .

    Please double-check your facts before posting them. The 3.5L is rated 32 highway. The Accord's 37 highway is 15% higher (thanks to the 3-cylinder eco-mode).

    I wish my old dodge Avenger had a 3-cylinder mode. The 150 hp is overkill for cruising down I-95.

    troy
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think you may be confusing the EPA rating for the V6 Malibu with the actual results from CR's tests. I think that's what dudleyr was referring to re the 38 mpg on the highway.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I thought I was fairly clear that I was talking about Consumer Reports tests, but maybe I could have been more specific. They (CR) have the best (most consistent) mileage tests in the industry. They do real world tests with actual drivers in moving cars.

    electrictroy - I did double check my facts. I am talking about actual mileage as measured by a nonprofit magazine, not government estimates. Since the actual EPA test of the Malibu was 41 mpg (they dropped the number to 32) it seems believable that it was measured at 38 by CR.
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    The info on the Malibu was a typo! They meant 28 MPG highway. A correction will be forthcoming.

    :P
  • merlin180merlin180 Member Posts: 24
    I know I might be opening a can of worms here, but anyone know why the HAH is not in the top-10 list even though the hybrid Escape is! (not that I want to drive an Escape, I just would've expected HAH to come out better)

    http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4018862&src=LP%20Passenger

    Was the HAH out when they did the tests? (they don't show the complete list)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The answer is simple. Look at all of the vehicles that made the "top 10"--ok, top 12--I wonder if Ford paid them to expand the list to the top 12 so the Focus and Escape hybrid could make the list? ;) All these vehicles have 3 or 4 cylinder engines. The HAH is a 3.0L V6. Compared to other V6s, the HAH does very well for emissions. But not compared to cars like these with much smaller engines. Some of the cars on the list have engines with half the displacement of the HAH's.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    The Accord Hybrid was only released a short while ago. It wasn't available for publication.

    ACEEE.org has since added the Accord to the list with a green score of "40" which makes it tied with the Escape Hybrid at #11:

    http://www.greenercars.com/byclass2.html#MID

    troy
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I was talking to the service manager at my Honda dealer about the first oil change on my wife's new I4 Accord. We got to discussing the hybrid and the warranty.

    He confirmed what was posted here earlier:

    battery assembly (including all internal components), DC-DC converter, motor control module, motor power inverter module (including software updates), motor rotor, motor stator, engine/powertrain control module (including barometric pressure sensor and software upgrades), throttle actuator control module, catalytic converter

    These parts are all covered by Honda for 8 years or 80,000 miles - whichever comes first.

    There ARE some IMA components that only have the basic 3/36k warranty on them, however: busbar, bypass connector, bypass resistor, high voltage contractor, battery current sensor, motor rotor position sensor, motor current sensor, motor power cable, high voltage motor power inverter module cable, intelligent power unit air duct and fan, power control unit air duct, motor power interver module fan control relay.

    Note that in CA/CT/MT/ME/VT all of these are covered for 3/50k - except the motor power cable which is covered 7/70k.

    My Honda dealer does not sell HondaCare (but they honor it) so he could not tell me what, if any of the hybrid/IMA stuff would be covered by a HondaCare extended warranty. I would ASSUME unless specifically excluded the high miles per year type could get the 7/100k HondaCare and the rest of the car AND the hybrid stuff would be covered to 100k. For the low mile folks, getting the 7/75k would cover the rest of the car for that term with the longer IMA warranty covering those parts.

    Seems to be a pretty comprehensive warranty - just add the HondaCare warranty of choice - purchased at a discount, of course - to cover the rest of the drive train (and maybe the IMA stuff) and you would be all set.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    The Accord hybrid is now their "Top Pick" the family sedan category.

    The thing I like is that they "Get it" - phrases like "come to know gas-electric hybrid cars as efficient but slow little vehicles for the environmentally conscious" and "Some of the new hybrids are, dare we say, performance vehicles" and "While it doesn&#146;t promise fuel economy in the 40-mpg range, as other hybrids do, it gives drivers comfort and convenience plus a performance boost--all while getting the best fuel economy among V6-powered family sedans"

    In CR tests the hybrid got 25mpg overall with a 0-60 time of 6.9. The EX V-6 did 23mpg and 7.4, the EX I4 was 24 mpg and 9.0 .

    They didn't like the non folding rear seat (welcome to the club) and felt the 6 to 3 to 6 and IMA kick in. They report the hybrid is a bit less agile in routine handling and felt the electric power steering took away some feel, and thought that the regenerative braking took away from feel. They complained that the car is not car seat friendly (I would assume that this would apply to all Accord sedans?) - which is strange.

    After making a big deal in a prior month about stability control saving lives, they report the hybrid does not have it, but don't seem to fault it for that.

    All in all a very nice showing for the hybrid.

    The only problem I have is that the "Consumer Reports tells me to get this car" drones will now exhaust the supply at the dealers and keep everyone else from getting a good deal on one.

    Dennis
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    "The only problem I have is that the "Consumer Reports tells me to get this car" drones will now exhaust the supply at the dealers and keep everyone else from getting a good deal on one. "

    .

    I heard the same about the Civic Hybrid, but I still see them in local lots. There will be a huge initial demand (as with all new cars), but a year from now, the Accord will be easy to buy below MSRP.

    troy
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    Unless gas hits $5.00 a gallon!
    ;)
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    At $5 a gallon folks will be lining up to buy the Prius, Insight, and Civic hybrid.

    The numbers are not good enough (for the cost) for most folks to get the Accord hybrid.

    Dennis
  • azhahazhah Member Posts: 82
    I think your crystal ball needs new batteries! First you say "drones will now exhaust the supply at the dealers and keep everyone else from getting a good deal on one" due to CR but then you say "The numbers are not good enough (for the cost) for most folks to get the Accord hybrid" if gas prices go up?!?

    C'mon!
  • rich57rich57 Member Posts: 4
    Glad to see that CR liked the HAH.

    If you notice in the ratings of the individal components of the HAH, the headlights received a half black circle !!?? :(

    Does anyone know why?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Only reference I found to a "shortcoming" as far as the headlights was someone wishing that the headlights were automatic and would switch themselves on at dusk.

    PF Flyer
    Host
    News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    I don't know, I have not driven my wife's car after dark - but maybe the beam pattern is not as good as "Standard" ?

    I know after using HID lights in my last several cars, I REALLY do not like standard halogens now. Maybe with so many cars coming with HIDs now CR feels the same way?

    Dennis
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...was referring to the performance of the low beams; the magazine has a relativelly new [last year or so] standardized test they use to measure how much light gets thrown down the road, how it is focused, and how effective the system is. No shock here - the standard lights on the Accord are nothing to write home about.

    Very few cars they've tested since this new category became part of the writeups have done particularly well. I can tell you from lots of personal experience that this is a real weakness in the North American market. I've always preferred the EU approach to headlights - more light, sharper cutoff - but Americans have different expectations, and lights here are literally all over the map.
  • mastromastro Member Posts: 39
    I read some where that you have to keep your Hybrid for 100,000 miles before you financially breakeven. Now that's a lot of miles. Is this true? :confuse:
  • dwynnedwynne Member Posts: 4,018
    If you want a Accord sedan than can do 0-60 in less than 7 seconds, then the hybrid is your only choice at any price.

    If that does not concern you, then the non-hybrid Accords get good mileage and can be had (with current incentives) at really low prices - while most dealers are asking full MSRP (or more) for the hybrid/

    I have not done the math, but we can look at it. A good price for the hybrid would be $29,200. . The carsdirect price right now for the EX V6 w/leather is $23,500 - or $5,700 less. This price does not include tax, here that is 7% on the difference so $6,099 total. A hybrid put into service this year qualifies for a $2,000 tax deduction - not this is an adjustment to income and not a straight tax credit. If you are in the 28% tax bracket this would net you $560 in tax savings, so we drop the $6,099 down to $5,539.

    When I filled up the other day I paid $2.399 for regular so the savings would buy 2,308 gallons of gas extra. The consumer report real-world MPG of the hybrid is 25mpg and the V6 EX is 23.

    So 100,000 miles in the hybrid would take 4,000 gallons of gas 100,000 miles in the V6 would take 4,347 gallons - or 347 more gallons. So we are not even close to tapping into our 2,308 "reserve". At these numbers you would need to drive 665,129 miles to break even.

    Of course, YMMV since it all depends on where and how you drive. If you do a lot of highway driving and are careful you can get a lot better mileage in both cars. If you do stop and go then both will get worse, but the more stopping in your commute the more the hybrid will save you.

    Everyone knows the EPA numbers are bogus, for sure when applied to hybrids. But even if we used their numbers let us see what we get. The V6 auto is 24 mpg combined in EPA numbers and the hybrid is 32 mpg.

    So 100,000 miles using these numbers we get 3,125 gallons and 4,167 a difference of 1,042 gallons. So at the $2.399 price you would still need to drive 221,497 miles to break even.

    If gas costs more, then the pay back is quicker no matter which mileage figures you use. But even with $3 gas and using the inflated EPA numbers you would need to drive a LOT of miles before you even save enough to pay the extra cost back - even including the tax incentive.

    If you could get a super deal on the hybrid (like you can on the other Accords) then this narrows.

    If you are really concerned with max mileage and minimum gas expense you would get something else. Or you could drive very carefully in either car and get nice numbers - but still (as the numbers show) you are not really saving money.

    Like I said though, if you want the quickest Accord sedan AND the Accord sedan that returns the best mileage - then you only have one choice :D

    Dennis
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It is very interesting to me why buyers of the HAH want to know if they will "break even" if they buy the HAH compared to another Accord that is less quick and gets worse fuel economy. I wonder if buyers who buy, say, an Odyssey with several thousand dollars worth of "appearance" packages, DVD entertainment systems, and other add-ons calculate whether they will break even on the additional purchase price when they go to sell the vehicle. I'd guess they don't. More likely, they figure the add-ons will provide them with extra enjoyment over the course of ownership. Like the extra power, fuel economy, and exclusivity will do in the case of the HAH. Kind of like a MasterCard commercial. :)
Sign In or Register to comment.