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Audi S4 vs BMW M3

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Comments

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Generally I agree. However, if you are in an area where the winters are moderate (where we are in Cincinnati, for instance), you may find yourself more able to go year round on three season's rubber in the quattro -- I have tried both all seasons and summer only tires -- the AWD seems to make a huge difference.

     

    The BMW would be OK with 4 winter tires, the Audi could probably be OK with 4 all season high performance tires.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Even with Quattro, I wouldn't have wanted to be on summer tires last week... The average high temperature is 37 for January in Cincinnati.. I can't imagine doing that on summer rubber..

     

    But, I'd take the S4 with all-seasons over an M3 with winter tires any day... in inclement weather..

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  • denverg35denverg35 Member Posts: 54
    Played with my 05 S4 in the snow last week, was certainly better that RWD G35 with snows.

     

    Have Pirelli snows on S4, which I do not like as much as the Blizzaks I had on the G---very hard rubber for a snow. Has anyone found anything else in the 18 inch wheel size?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    I don't know about size availability, but I have 17" Goodyears.... They ride pretty well.. Eagle Ultra-Grip GW-3.. Haven't checked lately, but last time I looked, you could read about them on Goodyear.com

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  • audinutaudinut Member Posts: 8
    I have an 05 S4 that I haven't gotten snow tires for yet. I am going to try this winter season with the summer tires before investing in a whole new set of tires. So far this morning when we had about two inches of snow it hasn't been too bad. I just took it slow and felt the abs kick in a couple of times. I'm only 6 miles from work on local roads so maybe I can get away without the snows.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I wish we had 37 degrees it has been in the 50's for it seems like forever and it just won't stop raining!

     

    Yep, I've got summer tires and I made it jus' fine through the 15" snowfall we had the day or two before Christmas (once I had my driveway cleared).

     

    Oh, I am NOT suggesting that anyone go with Summer tires in the Winter -- I am not buying more tires on a car that will be gone at most in 6 months, that's all.

     

    And, the good news is I haven't felt the need for them thus far.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    You probably can -- yet, you may want to do some homework and check out (when you need new tires) Ultra High Performance All Season tires. They are much less of a compromise, probably will last longer and be quieter than the Max performance Summer Tires that are OEM equip. on S4's.

     

    Just a thought. . . .
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    I agree.. most people will be better served with all-seasons... especially on a 4-season AWD car.. than getting max summer performance rubber..

     

    As far as the winter Goodyears that I have.. They don't even show them anymore on their website.. So, maybe they have been discontinued.. I've only had them just over a year, though..

     

    Anyone looking for winter tires of any type at this late date... are probably out of luck.. most sizes are sold out by now...

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  • audinutaudinut Member Posts: 8
    What make tire would you suggest? I've had a good experience with the Continental Extreme Contact series on my previous A6. They handled well in snow and dry pavement without giving up too much in the summer. They were also extremely quiet compared to my previous Pirelli's. The bad thing is that they wore quickly.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    What size?

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  • audinutaudinut Member Posts: 8
    I have 18 inch wheels right now.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    In high performance all-seasons... the consensus picks seem to be Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and Pirelli P-Zero Nero M&S...

     

    Both should wear a little better and be a little quieter than your ContiExtremeContacts.... Plus, handle marginally better..

     

    At a price premium, of course... what else is new?

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  • geevee36geevee36 Member Posts: 4
    does anyone have any info on S4 reliability issues. i keep getting contrasting info and advice from different sources.

     

    thanks.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi geevee36 - you'll want to check out our ongoing Audi S4 discussion. There is lots of information there already and it's probably the best place to ask questions on that order.

     

    Here we are specifically comparing the S4 to the M3 so it's not really the best resource for what you are asking.

     

    Good luck.
  • geevee36geevee36 Member Posts: 4
    thanks for the link. i am about to buy an unsold s4 6 spd. i am getting a great price and can't wait. i had a g35 coupe but needed four doors.
  • giovanni1giovanni1 Member Posts: 106
    Hi all,

    I just got quoted a money factor of .00255 for a 3yr/15k lease on a 05 M3, the money factor seems kinda high as I believe that works out to about 6%. Thoughts?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Base rate money factor is .0020

    The dealer is permitted to mark it up to .0024, and I would guess they are waiving the security deposit for an additional .00015, totaling your quoted MF of .00255

    In addition, the residual should be 59%, which the dealer has no control over.

    I would insist on the base rate, and make the security deposit.. you come out ahead over the life of the lease.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • fishtookfishtook Member Posts: 17
    Would any S4 owners care to comment on the quality of their vehicle ??

    I looked @ quality issues for A4's from
    '99-'03 and I'm not encouraged.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    My cousin has an '00 S4 with approximately 60,000 miles. He's recently had to replace the driveshaft and then his clutch a few months later.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • mort1mort1 Member Posts: 1
    AM SURE YOU DID LOTS OF SEACHING BEFORE YOUR PURCHASE-- AM GOING THRU SAME PROCESS AND WONDERING ABOUT THE S4 RAG TOP VS, BMW 330CI OR ACURA RL-CAMPARED TO THE S4 -REPLY TO
    4mort@bellsouth.net
  • s40somethings40something Member Posts: 1
    In regard to denverg35's post, I have a 04 s4 and just recently put continental extreme contact radials in an 18 and I live in ct. We have had piles of snow every other day or so. My s4 and my conti's handle it very well without giving up a really smooth ride when its dry. Give it a try, and they are cheapest at tiresavings.com good luck,s40something.
  • gregors4gregors4 Member Posts: 1
    I'm also interested in any info anyone can share regarding CHIP INSTALLATION for an Audi S4.

    Could anyone recommend a place in Northern New Jersey to have a chip installed?

    Also, what are the top suppliers of the chip?

    Thanks in advance for your input.
    Gregor
  • joecudajoecuda Member Posts: 2
    I recomend you go to a place called PES_Tunning...They chipped my 2001 s4 and it works wonderful...they are stationed in PA..not far from jersey and not far from me in NY...PES-Tuning.com
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I don't know if you're specifically asking about quality or reliability, so I'll tell you both.

    I have a sprint blue S4 Cabriolet, and the quality is phoenominal, as in all Audis. There's even a well-made drawer under each of the front seats, only on the cabriolet, but a cool and useful feature. Every material fits perfectly into place in its silver Nappa leather interior, with no huge panel gaps. I really have no complaints in this car, except the rear seat armrests are a little intruding. No biggie.

    In reliability, you should check the latest J.D.Power ratings. Audi is easily the most-reliable German manufacturer, in fourth place overall, behind Lexus, Toyota, and Honda/Acura (tied), in that order. What makes me laugh is that BMW and MB are in like the twenties or something. Just be glad when you dust an M3 that's getting jump-started on the side of the highway!

    In almost any sense, the Audi S4 is flawless. Although anyone would agree that the Cabriolet is beautiful, a slight few may not agree on the sedan and Avant, but I think they look almost as good.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    In every American magazine 2003 and beyond, they rank the S4 tops in any comparison. It all started in the May 2003 Car & Driver, when the S4 and RS6 aced the multi-comparison test. It was all uphill for Audi from there. Today, in almost any magazine, the A8 wins the best luxury sedan in an 'all-stars' type thing or normal comparison; the A6 is the Best Car in the World and recently won a V8 midsize comparison test, the RS and S Audi cars literally always win comparison tests these days, and they're about to make a gorgeous SUV, Q7, that will murder the X5 and ML-Class. Audi's going to make a Q7 S, with the 4.2 twin-turbo V8, and Q7 RS, with their child company, Lamborghini's, V10 (from the Gallardo). It will be unbelievable for rich housewives.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I don't know where your information is from, but every reliability survey on Audi puts them down near bottom. In other words, you will be jumpstarted by the M3 that just got jumpstarted.

    In other respects Audi get's high marks for it's interior and fit and finish.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Where do you get your information from? I don't want to sound bratty, but I at least had facts to back my info up. And, anyway, why would the A6 be the most popular and admired car in Germany (recently voted between about 100 cars), and why was Audi recently named Germany's Best Luxury Car Company. You have to realize that Audi has made huge strides in the past few years, in all areas, and you have no facts except a bunch of lemon cars to say that Audi is not reliable.
  • giovanni1giovanni1 Member Posts: 106
    As far as Audi reliability I've owned 3 including my current TT and they've all been extremely reliable. In fact I've never had a single problem with any of them with the exception of the radio in the TT going dead at 5K, replaced by the dealer under warranty in a few hours and no problems since.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I was wondering about that too, I have yet to see anything from anyone that ever put Audi anywhere near Toyota or Honda in reliablity, be it the 1 year survey or the 3 year survey.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    "I don't want to sound bratty, but I at least had facts to back my info up."

    A link to this survey please! Oh and please don't tell us about Germany because we all know that Audi is seen in a much better light over there, but we don't live in Germany and here Audis are no better than any other German brand and in most cases they're much worse than BMW, and usually in the same place with Mercedes in any survey I've seen.

    M
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    If you look on a place called autospies.com, you'll see the article that says, "Does Audi finally have the winning formula to beat BMW and Mercedes?" Click on it, and look at all four parts of the story, and you'll see not only reliabiltiy is above-average on Audi but is just behind Lexus, Acura, and Infinti. BMW and Mercedes are below-average. You will also see Audi's residual value over three years has surpassed Mercedes's and is catching up to BMW's.
  • latigolatigo Member Posts: 2
    “With every new car they release, Audi keeps inching closer and closer to MB and BMW, here in the USA.”

    That's the first line of the autospies.com page referenced; not exactly gushing. It’s also interesting to note that on the same page Audi is advertised three times, as is the case for all the features pages.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Autospies is probably the worst place on the net to get information from. They're simply a garbage site. They only posted material that Audi salesmen use!!!

    M
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I'm in auto sales and I checked out that site as well...pretty much garbage and all advertisements. Not worth going back a second time.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Autospies... AKA.. Autolies

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  • carguy4lifecarguy4life Member Posts: 4
    I have owned an E36 M3 since 1995 and just this month traded in an Audi A4 owned since 1996. I have/had been ecstatic and happy respectively with the BMW and Audi.

    **RELIABILITY**
    The BMW has been more reliable than the Audi and less expensive to maintain. Known reliability issues with the E36 3-series include the cooling system and rear shock mounts. My second thermostat was installed at ~60k miles (the car now has 72k). I will be replacing the plastic-impeller water pump and possibly the radiator as preventative measures at my next service (soon). Rear shock mounts also have been changed twice. I don't know if these issue had been addressed for the E46 generation. There have been a few other non-routine repairs, but overall I have had good reliability over the 10 years. The Audi has had a bit more of the non-routine stuff happening, including radio, antenna and speaker problems that were never completely fixed after at least 4 tries, power window glitches, water pump, thermostat, intermittent instrument fritz (water temp, fuel guage, odometer display), un-turnable rotors at 50k, temp sender, a couple of leaks (gasket replacements), CV boots twice, random alarms, windshield washer system and probably a few other items I am not remembering. Despite all this, I still think the A4 has been one of the best cars of the past decade. But I did trade it in this month fearing future repair and maintenance costs. Although individual experiences vary, I would not believe any surveys that rank Audi or BMW as having near the reliability of Toyota and Honda.

    **SERVICE**
    There are quite a few independent service shops that specialize in BMWs here in the SF Bay Area. Although they must exist, I do not know of any independent Audi-only shops in my area. New Dimensions is the closest thing, advertising themselves as a VW/Audi shop. However, I am sure that 90% or more of their business is VW; I had a mediocre service experience there. So, there are more service options for BMW along with somewhat lower service costs vs. Audi.
  • carguy4lifecarguy4life Member Posts: 4
    One major difference between the S4 and M3 is the variety of aftermarket stuff available. There are a few Audi suppliers for performance enhancement, but there are many more for BMW. (I am fortunate enough to live near the Dinan headquarters!) If you are not into modifying your car, this is a moot issue. But if you like to have several chip, cold air intake, short-throw shift kit, etc. suppliers to choose from, then you will probably be happier with a BMW. Also, the local BMW Car Club is very active, with several driving school, track and other events in the SF Bay Area each year. I don't know what the Audi Club (I assume there is one) does. In my mind, BMW owners have a higher tendency to be "car people" than Audi owners.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    ALL of the manufacturers post their releases there. It's not like the people there are going to spend money on something that can be already made! (BTW, the biggest payment given to autospies was from Mercedes, and now autospies is going crazy over the new S-Class)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    ALL of the manufacturers post their releases there.

    Thats incorrect. No automaker posts anything there. Autospies gets the press releases from the same sites that you and I would go to read them, like the autochannel.com or any other respectable media outlet. Autospies just posts them on their site with a catch headline and then calls it news. Every wonder why they wait until Thursday to post new info? They gather the press releases from thecarconnect.com, autochannel.com and others all week long and just rehash it on Thursday night. Problem is they often try to act like they got the "scoop" first and then they run with it.

    There probably isn't a more seedy or tacky site on the net, as far as automotive things go.

    Do you really think Mercedes, Audi or any other carmaker would have anything to do with such a low-rent, off-base site? I think not. Are there car dealers associated with them? Yes of course. They are what keeps the site going. Big difference from the corporate offices of MB, Audi, BMW, Porsche, Lexus or any other make. None of them "post" anything on their site. A press release is just that a press release and once its out anyone can post it anywhere.

    M
  • munchenturbo1munchenturbo1 Member Posts: 2
    Bitte setzen Sie Lexus nicht in das gleiche sentance wie MB, Audi, BMW, Porsche ein, das es Ihren Punkt über diese Autohersteller vermindert!

    Please do not put Lexus in the same sentance as MB, Audi, BMW, Porsche it degrades your point about these car manufactures!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Regarding your message to merc1, you are speaking to our Forums' über German car fan, so your comment to him is unnecessary!! :) If you spend a little time catching up on our discussions, you'll see what I mean.

    I do need to ask you to keep your posts totally in English, please ...
  • 04s4handles04s4handles Member Posts: 1
    I drive an 04 S4 and im in love with it. its an undercover rocket. u see millions of bmws on the road..wheter its an older model beemer, an old m3,new m3 or even an m5...yes you see the A4's and the A6's but rarely do u see the S4...my buddy who knows nothing about cars even said, since u got ur s4 i always look 4 them but only see the A4...its a rarity and that 1 thing i love about it...also the fact that i have smashed on new M3's on the open freeway makes me believe that this car is the truth..whats great is that the new s4 is often mistaken for the smaller engine older moldel s4...but when push comes to shove, the heat of the s4 has given me many thumbs up from people testing its power...being 19 and a college baseball player, my s4 has handled long drives with 5 grown men with comfort and ease...i could keep going but i think every1 see's my side
  • ubergooberubergoober Member Posts: 1
    I've got experience, thought different types of experience, in each one so here are some observations, fwiw.

    I instruct at track events for a number of clubs, and have done quite a few BMW club events. I've driven and ridden in a bunch of M3's on the track, but never on the street.

    My daily driver is an '01.5 S4, and I've driven a friend's '05 S4 (both 6-speed), but I've never tracked an Audi.

    They're both great cars, but are at their best doing different things.

    IMO the M3 is almost certainly the better track car, comparing unmodified cars. (That's assuming a dry track - different story in the wet). Great balance, feedback, high-rpm performance, brakes, it's all there. I prefer the slightly older M3's because the new ones feel - and are - heavier, but they're all a real pleasure on the track. I think the S4 would feel quite heavy on the track, particularly front-heavy, and the front tires and brakes would take a beating. I saw a very fast S4 (V6TT) on the track recently, mostly stock but with stiffer suspension and chip,exhaust, etc., and I'd sure like to drive it some time, but this thread is really about stock cars.

    On the road the S4 is really amazing, it's hard to imagine anything better. Fast, smooth, responsive, comfortable, superb interior, and all in a car you can drive all day and night through a snowstorm. I've had no problems in New England winters with just all-season tires.

    So, my verdict, which means absolutely zero by the way, is the S4 for a street car, even in non-snow country, and also the S4 for someone who does an occasional track event. For a real track junkie though I'd have to recommend the M3, provided there's something else to drive when it's slippery out.
  • jspencejspence Member Posts: 3
    Just a post of a little link for the ESF guy:

    http://www.jdpower.com/pdf/2005069.pdf

    This is the 2005 JD Powers Initial Quality Survey.

    BMW is clearly above Audi. Also making a mental note never to buy a Suzuki. ;)
  • guido591guido591 Member Posts: 1
    "whats great is that the new s4 is often mistaken for the smaller engine older model s4"
    And uh, what exactly does that mean? I suspect that you are implying that the V8 S4 easily trumps the B5S4....which isn't exactly accurate . The 2.7 Biturbo easily lends itself to performance upgrades that enable it to leave the larger behemoth in its wake. I traded my '01 for an '05 and, while the newer version has many wonderful attributes, I miss the performance of my 2.7T. "i could keep going but i think every1 see's my side"(sic). You do more baseball than college, don't you.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    Just because you're German does not mean you can make Lexus the underdog. Lexuses are far more luxurious than BMWs, and no German manufacturer can match the owner's experience or reliability. I should know- I am on my second Lexus (an RX330) and second Audi (an S4 Cabriolet).

    Lexus is also becoming far more competitive- the IS350 is a 315 hp car, and it's not even the M3-fighter. It could probably wipe the G35 across the floor.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    How are they worse than BMW? The only BMW that I've seen consistently beating Audis is the 3 Series vs. A4- the A8 always wins comparisons, the A6 always comes on top of the 5 Series, and the S4 has never lost an American test that I've read. The only other exception is the TT- but that's not competitive at all. It's just cool looking. And, when the A4 is completely redesigned, it should kick some 3 Series butt.

    The only thing that BMW is actually better at is performance- and that's not saying Audis have bad performance. They have great performance and accelaration off the line, with luxury, style, and value to back them up. And, quality is different than reliability. In a test I read today, the magazine said that "the A6 has the highest quality of the bunch". They didn't mean reliability.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I feel the same way about my new Cabriolet. The S4 just flies- I love playing with Bimmers, letting them think they can pass me, and then blasting by at the last moment. I also had a nice run with a '00 or so Pontiac Firebird V8, a fast car, on the highway the other day. We were fighting to pass each other, and I finally passed him, but then went on the exit off the highway.

    And, I love the attention. I got a beautiful Sprint Blue color, and that way almost every luxury car owner knows that it's an S4. A man in a Porsche Cayenne Turbo gave me a thumbs up, a person in an A8L nodded at me, and someone who drove an S4 sedan just smiled at me. And, most people who drive competing companies just look at it. For a while. I can see a tad of jealousy. But, my favorite part so far was when a dark blue M3 Convertible and I were at a stoplight, and I just dusted him. Twice.

    I'll never get tired of the car, and now I'm hooked on convertibles. After this, I could never go into another A6.
  • roughtoproughtop Member Posts: 2
    Is there any way to get below .0020 on the money factor?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    This month, the MF is .00195... for any 36 month lease.. that is the base rate.. as low as you can get..

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